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Main Boards => Long Distance Walks => Topic started by: buntonn on 17:43:13, 17/05/17

Title: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: buntonn on 17:43:13, 17/05/17
Hello, I have just been looking at a role in the latest issue of Trail magazine on page 36/7 on a wild camp route called Eskdale Horseshoe 23km. It's graded high on strenuousness, navigation and technicality. I would really like to do this as one of my walks in June as it's pointed out a good place to wild camp which is something on my list to do that week.


I am in the lakes in a couple of weeks to do a one to one navigation course there, so it will be fresh but little used by the time I am wanting to do this route 3 weeks later.


Do you think I can do it?


This is the land marks of the route I can give toking at the illustration.


Brotherilkeld
Scale Bridge
Cat Creg
Cat Cove
Slight Side/Cam Spout Crag
Sca Fell
Symonds Knott/Mickledore
Scafell Pike
Broad Crag/Calf Cove
Esk Pike
Bow Fell
Crinkle Crags
Throstle Garth
Lingcove Bridge
Back to Brotherilkeld

Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: Percy on 09:06:29, 18/05/17
Can't say anything firmer than: it depends.


If you're a beginner walker you'll need to be pretty fit from some other form of exercise. If you aren't fit then you'll struggle.


In terms of navigation, a lot will depend on the weather. Good visibility and it'll be reasonably straightforward, poor visibility and it'll be extremely challenging.


Look at the paths down into Eskdale from the tops - that way you'll have a list of escape routes if it is proving a bit much or the weather turns nasty.
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: Scrambledlegs on 11:12:18, 18/05/17
Are you planning on doing these over the one week Buntonn?


Some of these individual routes are 5-6 hours + and you will be exhausted doing them all together. It's a personal opinion but a few of these are walks I'd be leaving at least a couple of days between for recovery.


I'd say I'm very strong but that lot would finish me off in a week!


The routes like Scafell are ones you will need to take your time with. Assuming you're going up via Lords Rake you need to take care if you're new to this kind of terrain. Its not necessarily hard but you do need to stay safe and alert, respect the weather conditions and it will work every muscle in your body.


Go for it but be prepared to change your plans at the last minute and definitely plot where pubs are so you can eat properly between routes as there aren't a lot of shops once you're off.


You certainly have set yourself a monumental challenge

Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: buntonn on 12:53:24, 18/05/17
That was a single route in Trail magazine, the test added to either go very light in a long daylight time and go fast in 12 hours, or pack heavier to wild camp and split into 2 days at 6-7hr per day, so I was thinking two days at 8hr per day and staying up near Great End. I have added a link to a scan of the page/route that you should be able to zoom in on to read.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/lv0yk6ha5o7imzt/Eskdale%20Horseshoe.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lv0yk6ha5o7imzt/Eskdale%20Horseshoe.pdf?dl=0)


I am relatively fit as I play squash, cycle, swim, gym, run and do body pump classes when not spinning. So hoping I can do this in the two days as this would make an ideal epic route with my wild camp night ticked off.

Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: April on 12:57:33, 18/05/17
Are you doing this route as a 2 dayer with a wild camp half way buntonn? 23km spread over 2 days should be possible but it depends on how much weight you are carrying if you are wild camping. I am unsure from the list of places you mention the exact route you are doing? Eg Slight Side and Cam Spout Crag? There will be a lot of ascent if you are going over the Scafells, a lot of rough ground, Scafell to Scafell Pike involves a tough descent and reascent. I assume you are doing the Foxes Tarn route? I have no idea whether you can do it because I don't know what your experience is or if you have been wild camping before. Ask me if I would be able to do it and the answer would be yes but I would expect a tough couple of days carrying wild camping gear and I would want very good weather as well. I say this thinking the route is Brotherilkeld - Slight Side - Scafell - Scafell Pike - Esk Pike - Bowfell - Crinkle Crags - back to Three Tarns - Throstle Garth - Brotherilkeld? I see you have posted as I was writing this! We have pitched near Great End before so that is a good place to camp in good weather.
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: buntonn on 13:17:42, 18/05/17
There are three of us doing this, so we could share the weight of the overnight gear between us to help, my gear is very lightweight so this is a plus. Maybe what I need to do is this, if I have a great couple of days weather on forecast, get going and see how we go, if we feel it's too much, do the sensible thing and sit down with the map and compass and plan an alternative to route us back and put it down to experience. I will also look up this route in ViewRanger or Basecamp and plan a couple of escape routes. I wanted to do Scafell Pike, Bowfell and Crinkle Crags anyway, so I am sure I can salvage something great out of it either way.


We all want a challenge anyway as part of this trip was fitness and I am using it for experience as I want to do a lot more of it.
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: April on 19:08:19, 18/05/17
You seem very well prepared, thinking about a plan b and even a plan c O0

The descent from Scafell is tough, a steep route via Foxes Tarn, I wouldn't recommend Lord's Rake with your camping gear and the route from Scafell Pike to Calf Cove involves a lot of boulders to get over. I've done the boulder bit with a wild camping pack and it isn't easy and you will be doing it at the end of a long hard first day. It will be the challenge you are after  :)

Here is our Drift pitched below Great End in Calf Cove last year
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8395/29466795683_94163cb8c4_z.jpg) (http://)


It was a "get the tent up quick" moment, the heavens had opened  ;D

There are great places to pitch on the south western side of Slight Side/Scafell if you need to shorten the route

This is the Drift and beefy below Boat How near Burnmoor Tarn, also last year
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8107/29802606426_0d0fe4385f_z.jpg) (http://)

Karl has pitched on Great How before. If he wasn't in Scotland (where was our invite?  >:(  ;)) Karl would be on here telling you how easy he thinks your planned route is, he floats when he walks that man  ;)
Have a look at Karl's site, he has been known to do a few wild camps  :D http://www.karlswalks.co.uk/




Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: buntonn on 19:40:36, 18/05/17
Thank you April  O0  thats super helpful, seeing your tent pitched, I can't wait to do something like that for the sheer experience  :)


Even took delivery of my MSR groundhog pegs today to secure my Elixir tent down if needed.
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: Scrambledlegs on 07:44:53, 19/05/17
April your walks are making me envious.


I reckon it would take me a couple of years to close the gap....


Buntonn, I completely agree with April about your kit being risky to carry on parts. Also, I still haven't managed to ration water properly so most of the weight I carry is liquid and obviously the higher I go the lighter I get. I like to have my limbs free and to be as weightless as possible so I can crouch and slide whenever needed.


I don't know if you are taking a bladder for water or if you are carrying bottles, or purifying as you go but you might want to consider where your supply will come from up there. I know there are some older posts on here that go in to rehydration in more detail. Personally we still drink approx 4.5-5 litres of fluids between 2 of us on most 8-10 mile mountain walks and that's a serious amount of weight to factor in as well as your other gear.


If you're going up Scafell from the wasdale end I've often wondered if Hollow stones would be suitable for a wild camp? There'd be a lot of people passing by and your tent would definitely be seen but I've seen them pitched in very strange places and noone bats an eyelid. There's quite a few sheltered bits there and you could maybe pitch up for a few hours in the daytime while you explore and find the route to Scafell so you're not taking your kit up with you? You could still do both the Scafells and you'd need to be somewhere around this area anyway.









Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: buntonn on 08:43:39, 19/05/17
I am paying carful attention to all the advise I am being given here in plotting the route. Now liquid is a very good point as it is heavy!!  I have got a 2.5lt bladder for my bag, a 1lt bottle and a 750ml bottle. Not sure what I will carry at this time, but I drink 2+ litters a day sitting at my desk writing computer code, so going to need a lot more than that for sure...  I do really need to look into the hydration side and work out what I need to get in the way of purification tablets/water filter. It would be great if I can find out a few places to refill and carry less from the start as that would cut weight.


Regarding my wild camp gear, this is the bulk of it including weights.


Tent 2640g (Everything)
Sleeping Bag 1060g
Matt and Pillow 619g
Bivvi Bag 420g
Stove/Gas 248g
Pot/spoon 152g
Food bag 152g


On my training walks locally I have put that gear in so I can carrying quite a load, that seems fine on my back, I know that isn't going vertical, but if it was all to easy it wouldn't be fun now would it  :D
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: April on 08:54:31, 19/05/17
buntonn looking at the route in trail, I see the descent from crinkle crags is via adam a cove and not by the three tarns as I suggested as a way down, the adam a cove route is the more sensible one   ;D

Scrambledlegs is right about water. Do you have a water filter? If so you can carry less water at the start and keep replenishing on the way. It does save a lot of weight. When I plan the camps we do I note down the water sources that we will pass en route. We start off with 1/2 litre of water and pick water up as and when we need to. If you pitch near Great End there is a water source in Calf Cove.

 ;D I see you have posted again as I was writing this. We use Mini Sawyer water filters but there are others available as well.
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: gunwharfman on 09:28:48, 19/05/17
Personally, I take the view if it takes your fancy then do do it!

Its too easy to sit back and say, can I, dare I and so on! I dreamed of hiking the Pennine Way for years, in fact this was my first REAL hike. I suffered I know, especially my feet, but in hindsight it was certainly worth it.

It was like me again when I dithered for a long time about hiking the GR10 in France and worrying about is it too far, is it too hard and so on. I did it in the end and feel rather stupid now that after being diagnosed with Prostate Cancer is was that which made me say to myself "S0d it, I'm going to have a go, no matter what advice, medical, health and safety, your too old and the rest of the nonsense I was bombarded with!"
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: buntonn on 09:51:41, 19/05/17
buntonn looking at the route in trail, I see the descent from crinkle crags is via adam a cove and not by the three tarns as I suggested as a way down, the adam a cove route is the more sensible one   ;D

Scrambledlegs is right about water. Do you have a water filter? If so you can carry less water at the start and keep replenishing on the way. It does save a lot of weight. When I plan the camps we do I note down the water sources that we will pass en route. We start off with 1/2 litre of water and pick water up as and when we need to. If you pitch near Great End there is a water source in Calf Cove.

 ;D I see you have posted again as I was writing this. We use Mini Sawyer water filters but there are others available as well.


Thanks again, I am just looking at really good reviews on the LifeStraw Go bottle, there is the normal one and a two stage version, not sure if I need the 2 stage for the UK?!  I will research water sources now for sure and thanks for the route info again  O0





Personally, I take the view if it takes your fancy then do do it!

Its too easy to sit back and say, can I, dare I and so on! I dreamed of hiking the Pennine Way for years, in fact this was my first REAL hike. I suffered I know, especially my feet, but in hindsight it was certainly worth it.

It was like me again when I dithered for a long time about hiking the GR10 in France and worrying about is it too far, is it too hard and so on. I did it in the end and feel rather stupid now that after being diagnosed with Prostate Cancer is was that which made me say to myself "S0d it, I'm going to have a go, no matter what advice, medical, health and safety, your too old and the rest of the nonsense I was bombarded with!"


I know exactly what you mean and that's sort of how I view things, but just wanted to put my mr sensible cap on to begin with and ask those who know. I am adding this now to my route list and if we get the weather, I'll be off like a rat up a drainpipe  :D
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: beefy on 13:28:46, 19/05/17
We use Mini Sawyer water filters but there are others available as well.
Sawyer mini is very versatile  O0
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: April on 13:35:10, 19/05/17
Personally, I take the view if it takes your fancy then do do it!

I echo this. Get busy living  :)

You seem to be preparing well and doing the all the right things, navigation course, getting the right gear together, you are putting a lot of thought into your holiday, planning well, preparing for alternate routes if you need to change the original route etc., a well organised person  O0

That photo of our tent below Great End wasn't planned originally we were supposed to go over Scafell Pike and pitch somewhere near the Corridor Route or near Lingmell. We'd walked from Stonethwaite and up Langstrath to Angle Tarn and onto Esk Hause. It had take us longer than anticipated, it was hard to cross the becks they were in spate, it was getting late and when the heavens opened we decided to pitch where we did. It is never a failure if you have to turn back or drop down lower from your original route, it is about doing what is sensible and you seem a sensible bloke, I'm sure you will do well whichever route you do.

Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: Innominate Man on 13:52:59, 19/05/17
.......... it is about doing what is sensible and you seem a sensible bloke, I'm sure you will do well whichever route you do.


Also possible if you're not a sensible bloke. I know of a couple that manage very well, but both as mad as hatters   :D    :D    ...  O0
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: April on 13:55:00, 19/05/17
Also possible if you're not a sensible bloke. I know of a couple that manage very well, but both as mad as hatters   :D    :D    ...  O0

I can't think who you mean?  :-\  :D
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: Innominate Man on 14:09:23, 19/05/17
I can't think who you mean?  :-\ :D

Karl knows them, vaguely.
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: April on 14:12:01, 19/05/17
Karl knows them, vaguely.

Yes Karl can be a bit vague  :D
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: beefy on 14:22:55, 19/05/17

Also possible if you're not a sensible bloke. I know of a couple that manage very well, but both as mad as hatters   :D    :D    ...  O0
Oi....  :(
I'm proper insulted now  ;D
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: Innominate Man on 16:35:14, 19/05/17
Oi....  :(
I'm proper insulted now  ;D


  ::)
Title: Re: Eskdale Horseshoe Route - Doable as a beginner?
Post by: April on 20:03:25, 19/05/17
I'm proper insulted now  ;D

Why? He can't possibly be talking about us?  :-\   ???  :)  8)   :-\  :(  ;)  :)  ::)   :D