Walking Forum
Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: fernman on 19:21:00, 02/11/17
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There are very many brands and models of baselayer tops and longjohns on makers' and sellers' websites but what is not clear to me at all is whether they differ much in the amount of extra warmth they provide. Occasionally some are described as for active wear, but that's as far as it goes.
Mine are years-old synthetic ones from Snow+Rock. I take them backpacking but as my trips are always in May and September I generally only need them as sleepwear and if it's cold in the morning I keep them on under my clothes until I set off. (TBH their main use is for my day walks between autumn and spring when the temperature is lower than 11-12C.)
In my never-ending quest to lessen my backpack weight I've figured I could replace them with lighter ones to save about 200g / 7oz.
However, I'm otherwise happy with the ones I have, they are "the devil I know", and I'm a bit wary of shelling out £70+ for something that might not perform as adequately as them.
Over to you!
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I have recently purchase merino wool baselayers from aldi. This is the mens version.
https://www.aldi.co.uk/men%27s-merino-base-layer-top/p/078320164600700
Wool doesn't get smelly and can hold up to 30% of its weight in water without feeling well. Really comfortable to wear. Only weighs 115g and warmth to weight ratio is excellent.
For some of the technical information about wool. When wool absorbs moisture, it produces heat, so if you go from a warm room into a cold, damp night wearing a wool jersey, the wool picks up water vapour from the air, keeping you warm. The reverse occurs when you go back into the warm room – the moisture in your jersey passes into the atmosphere, cooling you down. Tiny pores in the cuticle cells allow water vapour to pass through the wool fibre. This makes wool comfortable to wear in both warm and cool conditions.
I got my first ones 18 months ago and and was so pleased with them when they came on offer I got some more as they are excellent value for money and great to wear.
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Personally I can't tell much difference in warmth between £70 ones and £7 ones.
difference classes of fibre make a difference to me. Ie merino has different properties to polyester or polypropylene etc.
I hear good things about the Brynje string/mesh ones. I imagine they're pretty light.
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I hear good things about the Brynje string/mesh ones. I imagine they're pretty light.
Also expensive.
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Also expensive.
Very. I wouldn't bother myself but others spend a lot on their kit.
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When its really chilly, ive alway's found either my short sleeve or long sleeve Helly Hansen lifa thermal, does the trick.
The Thermal layer market, is flooded with some very overpriced tops, but ive found that my Helly Hansen thermals to be very effective.
Their very long lasting as well, so the initial purchase price represents good value.
You could of course buy any of the equally fine layered thermals, but some of them are way too expensive.
For those chilly Autumn and Winter days, a Helly Hansen, Buffalo Windshirt, and either windproof or lightweight waterproof top, seems to work for me.
The Pertex windshirt, keeps most of the wind at bay, and is highly breathable, allowing the thermal properties of the thermal top to keep most of your body heat inside.
If it gets particularly windy, then the extra layer waterproof goes on top.
I am sure many here on this forum, will have their own preference, but the Helly Hansen thermals, are a tried and trusted formula, and do not cost the earth.
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For those chilly Autumn and Winter days, a Helly Hansen, Buffalo Windshirt, and either windproof or lightweight waterproof top, seems to work for me.
Surely not now you have the Montane down jacket?
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Surely not now you have the Montane down jacket?
which was made in China from live plucked geese. ;D
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Ive already got a few thermal tops, might as well make use of them.
Probably the ideal base layer to go under the down jacket, but as the Montane is very light weight, it will need an extra layer underneath in really cold weather.
Still, it was well worth the £40 i paid for it, and can also be used as a casual jacket when its chilly, and no the down was not cruelly sourced.
There would be serious repercussions if a company like Montane, claimed their down was ethically sourced, when it was far from the truth.
They clearly state the fact, in their advertising, and they would be on rocky ground if someone disproved it.
Montane are part of the RDS group, which stands for Responsible Down Standard, ensuring that the down is sourced from an ethical source.
They would be far better just keeping quiet on the subject, but in this instance, they are proud to say their part of the RDS.
Another good reason to purchase Montane clothing.
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Ive already got a few thermal tops, might as well make use of them.
On that basis I expect you'll be wearing 4 pertex hoods next time you're out then O0
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Only one needed
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Volkswagen, Kobo Steel et al are all supposedly ethical companies are they not, just look what happened there, the list grows daily. The bottom line is unless your UK inspectors are standing in the factories in China you have absolutely no way of knowing where the down is coming from. You will be shown what you want to see when visiting for inspection purposes but once your back is turned??????.
On 20 Jukly 2017 the following was reported " After a shocking recent PETA US and PETA Asia eyewitness investigation revealed that even so-called “responsibly sourced” down may be linked to suppliers that use live plucking to obtain feathers, brands have been rushing to distance themselves from this unethical product."
Or you may be interested uin reading the following article from May2017. https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/press.php?id=5183 (https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/press.php?id=5183)
from which the following quote is most apt "
So you can't 100% guarantee your down is ethically sourced? RT: No, The Down Codex Project is all about risk management. No brand can currently give a 100% cast iron guarantee. There are too many small farms and slaughter houses in the supply chain. "
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I find SportsDirect cheapo 2 for a tenner type deal synthetic thermal baselayers surprisingly warm under a fleece. I've even worn their thermal legs under my summer trousers in the depths of winter in a biting coastal North Easterly blizzard/wind and not felt cold. Not sure what they'd be like as jimjams though :-\
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It's high time I stepped in to thank everyone for their input so far.
lostme1: That is an incredibly low price for Merino wool and a good light weight too. Unfortunately it's a short-sleeved top when I want long sleeves (I hadn't thought to mention that before), also there are no longjohns to go with it either. Nevertheless, I will now be keeping a close eye on what Aldi might offer in the coming months.
NeilC: I'm afraid anything expensive like Brynje is going to be off my list (I don't want to look like Rab C. Nesbitt either!).
Dai: I looked up Helly Hansen baselayers but I couldn't find any weights, I also got the impression the Lifa 120 is not part of their current range.
Mel: Spots Direct have some amazingly cheap ones, but again, no weights.
I must reiterate two main points:
1. I am seeking, or at least thinking of, halving the weight of my present baselayers, which are otherwise quite satisfactory.
2. I am trying to learn if there is much difference in warmth/performance in the different weights that are available in products. Manufacturers and sellers could help by saying This model is good for runners/cyclists and this one is good for static people like anglers/birdwatchers, but they don't, they're rather vague, probably deliberately, and descriptions, if any, cast as wide a net as possible.
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Check out the Helly Hansen “Kastrup” base layers in Screwfix - still a variation of their Lifa fabric but relatively speaking ‘cheap as chips’.
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The ones I’ve used most in recent years have been Paramo Cambria (something like that) which are reversible. List price is chunky about 45 quid but probably you can get for around 30.
Reversing fabric does make a noticeable difference, wear one way round for warm conditions, other way round for cool. Fairly light..but I’m not sure if they’d save you the 200gm target.
I use them in a wide range of conditions...by standards of UK. But when it gets close to zero switch to Odlo baselayers, which are warmer still.
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It's high time I stepped in to thank everyone for their input so far.
lostme1: That is an incredibly low price for Merino wool and a good light weight too. Unfortunately it's a short-sleeved top when I want long sleeves (I hadn't thought to mention that before), also there are no longjohns to go with it either. Nevertheless, I will now be keeping a close eye on what Aldi might offer in the coming months.
Fernman: From time to time Aldi have the long sleeve version and long johns. I have the long sleeve top and will post the weight later when I have weighed it. You can sign up to the Aldi twice weekly emails to get advance notice of what is coming up. You can also buy it from Aldi and return it if not suitable.
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I've a couple of Patagonia silk-weight capalene tops and a pair of long Johns, I got them out of a bargain bin ages ago so I've no idea if they still make them or the price. Very comfortable and wick really well, because of the silk finish they don't bunch up around your knees and elbows. Their also very light, unfortunately their getting very worn now.
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I've tried Merino, Bamboo and synthetic. I prefer bamboo but I tend to opt for the synthetic mostly because mine tend to dry quicker. The reason for my approach is due to the way I like to hike. I only carry two baselayers, plus two underwear and two pairs of socks. I have a very lightweight foldable bowl and at the end of a walking day I fill it with water, I take off my baselayer and wash it, I then put on the other. In the morning my wet baselayer is strung across the back of my rucksack and will dry as I walk. When I stop I change items again. My routine works smoothly if the weather is fine, if it isn't I just adapt and get back to my original routine as quickly as I can. My routine also includes my underwear and socks, it just my way of carrying less.
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Thanks again for everyone's replies.
The HH ones from Screwfix are certainly interesting, who'd have thunk of looking there! Very good prices and some seem to be lighter weight, though difficult to tell as specs of some include weight and some don't.
I'll sign up for Aldi as suggested, there's a big new one recently opened less than 2 miles from home but I'll take my digital scales if I go there! (Also a Lidl opening soon on the route there, but baselayers I saw on their website were 43% cotton, say no more.)
Patagonia Capilene Lightweight excited me most from the weight point of view, but they're at the upper end of what I would pay, while they appear to be in short supply, I think I'd find it difficult getting both top and bottom in my size from the same supplier.
As for washing them as I go, my trips are 4 days max, and the sheep don't complain.
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Fernman - As promised, my aldi long sleeve merino top weighs 150g
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Thanks for that. Following your earlier suggestion, I'll be keeping an eye on Aldi, as stated in my previous post.
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I've got some 30 year old tops and long johns my Dad used when he was in the Army that serve me perfectly well!
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I have an Aldi one and I really like it.
I also have a Decathlon long sleeved TechWool one.
It's also good. https://www.decathlon.co.uk/techwool-155-mens-merino-wool-base-layer-dark-grey-long-sleeve-id_8284498.html?_cclid=v3_8cb65259-dac9-55e5-bb4e-cda74ab98750&gclid=CjwKCAjw7frPBRBVEiwAuDf_LYPpKNLFzcY-_WLikKYV5Nxb-rl9-otOLQ23KyG1wXsxRpR6GA8AZRoCr6oQAvD_BwE