Trouble Finding the Right Jacket (Warning, very long post!).

[xtremottx]

Hi.

As the subject line states, I am having a little difficulty in finding a jacket that meets all my specifications and was wondering if anyone could kindly offer any advice or suggestions.

Firstly, the jacket should be suitable for standing around in very strong winds at below zero temperatures but also in heavy rain, so it must be extremely warm, fully waterproof and fully windproof with taped seams. It must be one, single jacket and not a  layering system. I am looking for a fully insulated (including hood and sleeves) down/feather (not synthetic) filled jacket.

I purchased the jacket below. It seemed of very good quality/material and heavy, however, the design of the hood let it down. The hood wasn't deep enough; it left the side of my face exposed to cold wind and had to be tightened quite a bit to even begin to protect my ears. The hood was attached by a short zip and buttons, which left a large gap between the end of the zip and buttons for wind to get into the hood and around the neck and head, so even though the jacket is described as waterproof, I wouldn't call it windproof. Other problems include no insulation in front of pockets so hands stay cold, warm fleece on the inside of the collar and fabric elastic inner wrist cuffs, causing a sweaty neck and wrists and hard to reach handwarmer pockets placed at the bottom of a long parka!

https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/mens/jackets/mens-down-jackets/antartic-down-jacket-p8663.aspx/charcoal [nofollow]

I gave up on the above jacket and tried the one below. The fit of the jacket and design of the hood was almost perfect. It cannot be seen in the photos, however, the hood is attached by a much longer zip from shoulder to shoulder so the head and neck is protected from wind (there are buttons at the front after that but the zip is not too short). This jacket also has a fleece lined collar, but the main problem is the quantity of fill (states 550). The sleeves and hood are adequately filled, however, the body of the jacket feels almost flat in some places. The problem is I can't even test it out now due to the weather becoming milder. I can't decide whether or not to return it. The staff member stated that it had a waterproof membrane, however, the website states "Milatex fabrics are coated, or laminated with a microporous polymer" (see info for Milatex at link below). Is the laminated fabric truly a 'membrane'? In any case, how can the customer tell which are laminated and which are simply coated? My knowledge is very limited but I am not sure if this jacket is really worth £126 or if I can do much better.

http://www.tog24.com/catalog/product/view/id/48308/s/alness-mens-milatex-down-jacket-grey-marl/ [nofollow]
http://www.tog24.com/fabric-information [nofollow]

I am not entirely satisfied with either purchase and am wondering if the perfect jacket even exists. For me, this would be as described below.

I do not need most of the features that increase the cost of a jacket, for example, weight and bulk is not an issue. The jacket can be as heavy as it likes. I would actually prefer it to be as thick and puffy as possible. I do not care about type and quality of down. I would prefer a jacket that was jam packed with cheap feathers than one containing a sparse quantity of the best quality white goose down. I have seen down jackets with 700 fill power and they seem way too flat for me.

Another thing that hikes up the price of a jacket which I am not concerned about is breathability. Well, that's not 100% true because I wouldn't want to wear something as sweaty as a plastic bag but what I'm saying is that the breathability which a cheap, no-brand jacket offers would be fine with me.

It is very important that the hood does not bunch up around, or at the back of, the neck, like the new hoody style jackets that seem to be so common today! Buttoned on hoods or hoods with a small zip that doesn't even reach the shoulders with buttons the rest of the way only allow wind/cold air to easily get through to the neck/head. These could be the main issues with my not being able to find a suitable jacket.

The hood must be attached to the jacket from collarbone to collarbone by zip or stitched on, such as the styles in the two examples below.

http://www.backcountry.com/images/items/1200/MHW/MHW00IR/ELEYELGD.jpg [nofollow]
http://ruggedoutdoors.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/1/f15_1623301_100_f_web.jpg [nofollow]

Although the jacket needs to be as warm as possible, I do not want it to have any 'warm' material anywhere on the inside of the jacket, including the collar, e.g. fleece. Warm material inside the pockets is fine, however.
I would prefer not to have elasticated fabric wrist cuffs, however, would consider a jacket with them if they were the inner types which I could un-stitch and remove.
I dislike velcro or magnetic fastening along the main front zip as when one is unfastened, the previous one re-fastens itself! Velcro for tightening the sleeve is fine, however.

Although it may seem that I'm picky, I am neglecting two of the most notable features; breathability and weight!

Which do I need to look for in the list of specifications of an insulated jacket if I was looking for the most waterproof/windproof material but wasn't concerned about breathability? Membrane? Laminated? Coated? Other? Of course, I am aware that no matter how waterproof a material is, the jacket's effectiveness depends on the quality of workmanship, taped seams, etc.

I also considered the following jackets (under £200) but neither meets all my requirements.

Northface McMurodo 2 Parka
Quechua Arpenaz 1000 Rain

Sorry for the long post and thanks for any advice.

[happyhiker]

Might be useful if you could say what you want to use the jacket for.

[xtremottx]

Hi happyhiker.

Thanks for your reply. As mentioned, it's just for standing around (and also short distance walking at slow/normal pace) so not much activity at all. This is why it doesn't need to be ultra breathable.

Thanks.

[sussamb]

Then you may be better with a good layering system and a simple hardshell as an outer layer 

[Hillhiker1]

I used to have a "Dare to be" Jacket, that I think was aimed at Skiers. Waterproof and fleecy lined, so very warm. I don't have it anymore. I run hot anyway and under any sort of exertion at all I would leak buckets in it. I often thought that it would be great if I was belaying a climb in winter or just standing around / walking very slowly.. But zipped up and hiking. Unwearable!
It might be just what you're after though

[Owen]

The jacket you're looking for does exist, just not for under £200.

[Bhod]

Fjallraven Arktis Parka

[xtremottx]

Thank you all for your replies, helpful advice and suggestions; they are really appreciated!

sussamb, yes, that sounds effective but as mentioned, it must definitely be a single, one piece jacket.

Hillhiker1, thanks for the suggestion. Sorry if I didn't explain it too well; fleece/other warm inner materials is something that I don't want the jacket to have.

Owen, now I'm confused! I thought that since most of my requirements were for the jacket to OMIT certain features, it would make the jacket cheaper and not the other way around, for example, no material that has to be ultra breathable, no material that has to be light in weight, no material that needs to be thin, no high quality down, no additional fleecey material and no additional fabric wrist cuffs. I think it's the tiny little decisions made by the designers of these jackets that is making it difficult and not the cost.

Thanks for the suggestion, Bhod. That may be a little over my budget! Hahah. In any case, it seems to be only water and wind 'resistant'.

Thanks again for all the help.

[Owen]

Making insulated jackets waterproof is very difficult, all the extra seams to seal. To make it worth doing they only use top quality materials so the end product is expensive.   

[forgotmyoldpassword]

Some of this does read like a bit of a wind up post, such as your insistence on a certain type of zipper on the neck or a lack of elasticated wrists.  From what I understand down jackets have this sort of wrist fastening to stop drafts and preserve temperature.


To cut this down, you want 1 item which does the following:
- Is very warm
- Doesn't have to be breathable
- Performs in wind
- Doesn't need to be light
- Must not be down
- No fleece fabric


To:
- Stand around a lot (birdwatching?)
- Walk short distances


Nearest which comes to mind is a pertex pile arrangement like the Montane Jacket or a Buffalo Mountain Shirt (which has a zip on hood available I believe.  I prefer the smock version of the Montane but sounds like you want a zipped front), which at 1kg is 'heavy', yet incredibly warm at low activity levels, has a quality hood and has put up with some ridiculous conditions for me.  If you still have a problem, get yourself a windproof balaclava, which with the smock has got me through a full on blizzard no problem.

[Mel]

Some of this does read like a bit of a wind up post, ...

I thought this too but, giving the benefit of the doubt...  OP, have you considered looking at fishing or horse riding jackets?

[jimbob]

Mel I think you're onto the stuff that may help. Carp fishermen seem to go in for all sorts of heavily insulated weatherproof jackets and other gear where weight is not a consideration. Yep I think the OP should maybe get advice from a carp fishing forum.

[xtremottx]

Thanks for the explanation, Owen. Yes, that does make sense. I am, however, hoping that I can still find something suitable at a reasonable price, for example, the first jacket I tried was only a few niggles away from being the right one; just a deeper hood and I probably would have been happy with it as I could have easily removed the inner fabric cuffs and slipped my own little insulated handwarmers in the pockets to solve all the issues. As for the second jacket, just a little more fill in the body and it would've been acceptable. I'm still deliberating on whether to keep it or not.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, forgotmyoldpassword.

Yes, I have had that in the past where people have thought that I was trolling, however, I can assure you that I would most certainly not be spending all this time composing a LONG post which will in no way be as boring to read as it is to type out just to wind someone up! Did you see my introduction post in the 'Welcome' thread? It may shed some light on why I look for such garments.

http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=34119.0 [nofollow]

Thanks for your summary of my requirements. If I may expand a little on it, down is perfectly fine, as long as there's enough of it; it needs to have some puffiness and it's not just fleece; it's any type of warm material, even cotton, that I would like to avoid. I prefer the cool, nylon type material for everywhere inside the jacket. I don't know about other people, but this type of material keeps me most comfortable. 'Warm' material makes me sweat even in cold conditions with little or no activity.

Thanks for your suggestions also. Yes, you are correct in that it needs to be a full zip. 1kg is fine; weight is no issue. As mentioned, I haven't yet given up on finding a single jacket, so I am not considering any other combinations.

To alleviate any doubts you may have regarding my being quite specific, let me explain the reasons for my requirements.

Single jacket and no combination of items - I need to be able to control my comfort "at the touch of a button", i.e. simple flick of the hood, tug of a zip, pull at a velcro strap, push of a toggle button, etc. I am the type of person that would never fiddle with layers, etc. The only thing that I take on and off are my gloves.

Very warm - It's not often that the temperature drops to minus 12 degrees, but on the one day of the year that it does, the jacket must be warm enough for me. I feel the cold more than most and this is why I buy things that may be extreme but comfortable for me.

Waterproof and windproof - Umbrellas are useless!

Down/Feather - I understand that this type is the warmest. Also, my feather jackets continue to maintain their loft after many, many years.

Non-hoody type hood / collarbone to collarbone zip or stitching - If the zip is pulled to the top, the hood bunches up at the back of the neck, which is uncomfortable. If the zip is lowered, there is no collar to keep the back of the neck warm. If the hood is attached with buttons (or a short zip), wind can get in from the gaps. A collarbone to collarbone zip or stitched hood allows the hood to fall back completely out of the way when not required. The zip can be zipped to the top of the jacket without the hood bunching up at the back of the neck. There are also very little or no gap for the wind to creep in.

Warm material on the inside of the jacket, especially collar / fabric elastic cuffs- These are two of the things that actually make me sweat even in cold conditions. I don't find a sweaty neck or sweaty wrists comfortable and with the cuffs, there are no adjustments that can be made to alleviate this. If I want to keep the wind out of the sleeves, I will use the vecro fasteners at the end of the sleeve. I don't need to keep it out permanently.

Type of fastening - Already mentioned, i.e. with velcro or magnetic fastening along the main front zip, when one is unfastened, the previous one re-fastens itself!

Hope the above helps in understanding the reasons for my choices.

If you need any further info, just ask.

Thanks.

Thanks for your suggestion Mel/jimbob; will hopefully look into that tomorrow and post back if I discover anything.

[Bhod]

Thanks for the suggestion, Bhod. That may be a little over my budget! Hahah. In any case, it seems to be only water and wind 'resistant'.

It might be overbudget but -


 "How to wax your G-1000 garments  With Fjällräven’s Greenland Wax, you can easily adapt your G-1000 garments to suit different weather conditions and your intended activity level. More wax gives a more resistant garment that can withstand weather and wind. If you wash out the wax you get a cooler garment with maximum breathability.
G-1000 fabric is a classic element in Fjällräven’s clothing. The tight weave of 65% polyester and 35% cotton is windproof, fast drying and very hardwearing, and thanks to the Greenland Wax impregnation it is also water resistant and dirt repellent. Over time the wax washes out of the fabric and its water resistant properties become reduced. After two-three washes it can be time to renew the impregnation. This gives better protection against getting wet at the same time as it increases the durability and therefore the life of the garment."

Source - http://www.fjallraven.com/guides/product-guides/fabric-care/how-to-wax-your-g-1000-garments

[fernman]

I wrote a suggestion last night in the OP's 'Hi' thread in the Welcome board.
I posted it in the wrong thread, sorry!