Fracking under national parks backed by MPs

[Strider]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35107203

The proposals, first set out in July, would only allow fracking 1,200m below national parks, Areas of Outstanding National Beauty, the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads and World Heritage Sites.
The drill rigs would have to be positioned outside the boundaries of the protected areas.

Don't know enough about this subject to offer an opinion, so I'll hand it over to you lot..... story or non-story?

[Rhino]

You can't stop progress, you might delay it but you won't stop it.

[phil1960]

It seems to me, that we the great unwashed, have less and less say in almost everything year on year. As well as fracking, the proposed motor racing circuit near Ebbw Vale looks like it will go ahead. Because it's open access land, then an equal amount of land must be made available for open access elsewhere. In effect some of it will be over 30 miles away and is already access land. The area known as Twyn Bryn-March will be lost, not even our national parks are safe.

[ljmeerkat75]

Yet another Tory u turn now they have another 5 years in the bag always looking after those who are ready to exploit anything for profit and damm any consequence i am not sure if i would call it progress though Dave it looks more like desperation as a lot of our gas sources around the uk is slowly running out and we economically need it no matter what the cost shame that new technologies to produce cleaner energy gets buried or under funded at least untill all the fossil fuel supplies are nearly gone a lot of money still to be made by oil and gas companies anyway that's my liberal rant done

[eebeejay]

Story.

The depth at which it takes place doesn't matter. We just don't know enough about subterranean geology to be totally sure that the toxic chemicals used in the fracking process won't leach into the water table. Sometimes it does, and once it does, there's no way to reverse that damage. It can't be cleaned up.

[mananddog]

We do know a lot about the geology in which this will be conducted and it is possible to make it safe and I think the regulation is strong in the UK. The main problems the green lobby cite are from unscrupulous, unregulated extraction in the US. We are short on natural resources and we need to do something about that and I do not like the idea of depending on Russia and other countries for our gas. As for the intrusive nature of the process it will be visible when the drilling is taking place. After this it will be about the size of a small industrial unit and much smaller than even half of the Westmorland services carpark which I am sure you all have used since it opened. Of course there will be more of these and there will be extra traffic while the fracking takes place and that will be unacceptable on some roads. It will be less intrusive than a wind farm producing an equivalent amount of power.

However, shale gas extraction is really a way of getting the Gov out of a fix for not planning the use of resources and goes against their commitments on climate change. They have severely curtailed support for renewables and this is their stop gap - putting off making any meaningful policy decision. They have said it would be an ideal opportunity to use the fracked seams to sequester CO2 but have no plans to do this - and we have plenty of empty space in the old oil wells. We cannot really extract anymore CO2 producing resources and keep within the 2C rise committed to in Paris. I do not have children and grandchildren so this does not affect me and human kind are but a blip on the face of the earth and the earth and life will still be here and thriving despite what we do with the environment - it has already survived much worse.

So my opinion is I don't like it because it will spoil my view of the hills and probably make some of the villages unpleasant to stay in or walk through but there are bigger issues which we are all avoiding and no one wants to take a detailed view of the future or get to grips with the problem because of self interest.

[phil1960]

Self interest or simply caring about our environment? I only walk in Wales but I care about what goes on elsewhere in the country, don't tar everyone with the same brush!

[domtheone]

You can't stop progress, you might delay it but you won't stop it.

Indeed.

It's inevitable, at some stage.

I do not like the idea of depending on Russia and other countries for our gas. .

Agreed

Relying on Russia and the Middle East for our Gas is not exactly the best situation.

Providing it's as safe as it can be (and as non intrusive as possible), i don't have too many objections.

I guess we could build a Nuclear Power plant in every national park instead

[mananddog]

Self interest or simply caring about our environment? I only walk in Wales but I care about what goes on elsewhere in the country, don't tar everyone with the same brush!

I was referring to all of us and politician and companies in particular. We all have our own particular bias on the management of the countryside and there is no grand plan of how we balance the tensions of land use versus the consequences of that use. The current vote is a reaction to all the things mentioned on here and a big favour to industry in particular. We all drive thousands of miles to enjoy the countryside, buy new gear made from the worlds resources, if we were brutally honest this is a contribution to the problem. That is not a dig at anyone, I am just as culpable as the rest.

[phil1960]

I was referring to all of us and politician and companies in particular. We all have our own particular bias on the management of the countryside and there is no grand plan of how we balance the tensions of land use versus the consequences of that use. The current vote is a reaction to all the things mentioned on here and a big favour to industry in particular. We all drive thousands of miles to enjoy the countryside, buy new gear made from the worlds resources, if we were brutally honest this is a contribution to the problem. That is not a dig at anyone, I am just as culpable as the rest.

It's badly managed and I fear always will be. Unless we revert to being Neanderthal's again, resources will always be utilised, used and abused, but we as a species have an obligation to mitigate that by being more thoughtful, governments even more so. I'm against fracking with my admittedly limited knowledge of the long term impact and frankly, we're in no position to be fussy about who we do business with, rightly or wrongly.

[barewirewalker]

Curious that the consensus is that fracking is solely for the benefit of big business, yet the 'voter' soons starts to squeal when hit in the pocket at the cost of energy and even more so when threatened with rationing and shortage. If we did not use so much then the price of energy probably would not support the cost of fracking.


But then of course there are also a lot of other people in the world now using the 'ready use' energy that the so called advanced nations have got used to.


It is curious how this call to arms gets ready support on a forum where many jump into there motors to head off to national parks and yet stay silent when there is a call to argue points to support access at local levels.


Having explored the Llanberis Quarries it is amazing how long term open cast mining that once claimed to 'roof the world' can scar the landscape, yet it built a community which would not be in that location and support the industry that gives many here their leisure.


Many here and those after will need the energy and the carbon to procreate their young, does an expanding world population need the carbon that has been locked away since dinosaurs roamed and fed on this world?


I can see the effect of an expanding population right beside me, new houses creating a larger and tighter enclosed society, living in warm houses and working in temperature controlled work places, and wearing their excess calories around there waists.


A yet the thinking about the surrounding countryside and access to it has not changed at the same pace as the population, social changes and the needs of a society that must exercise so that they do not become a burden on those still fit enough to work.


Mananddog has written a lot of sense, many of those who enter the argument from preconceived stances of political bias should dig deep into their intellects before stating judgmentally on these issues because they may find that there wishes lead to a cold future.

[phil1960]

All that of course in your own personal opinion, which everyone is entitled to. I will continue to disagree as far as my "intellect" will allow, carry on walking and do what I can. One final point though, too many assumptions seem to be made about what people do, don't do or stay silent about, when in actual fact they know nothing about you, cest la vie 

[Rhino]

 

Yet another Tory u turn now they have another 5 years in the bag always looking after those who are ready to exploit anything for profit and damm any consequence i am not sure if i would call it progress though Dave it looks more like desperation as a lot of our gas sources around the uk is slowly running out and we economically need it no matter what the cost shame that new technologies to produce cleaner energy gets buried or under funded at least untill all the fossil fuel supplies are nearly gone a lot of money still to be made by oil and gas companies anyway that's my liberal rant done

Hi Luke
Please stop talking bad about the tories or i will be forced to report you to the party and then there will be trouble 
If that Corbyn bloke stays as Labour leader they will get another 5 years as well guaranteed 
 

Indeed.

It's inevitable, at some stage.


Agreed

Relying on Russia and the Middle East for our Gas is not exactly the best situation.

Providing it's as safe as it can be (and as non intrusive as possible), i don't have too many objections.

I guess we could build a Nuclear Power plant in every national park instead 

Dom the plan is to save what resources we have left by stopping all Gas, Coal and Oil industry here and buy from Russia and the Middle East or anywhere else and by doing that when Fossil fuel runs out we will at least have some left as well as the nuclear weapons to defend it.
 
When fossil fuel runs out i have Bear Grylls on speed dial btw 
 
Even better than building a nuclear plant in every national park is to get the Chinese to build them for us   
 
 
The sooner you realise there is nothing you can do about this or most other things on this level your going to start feeling better about it   
 

All that of course in your own personal opinion, which everyone is entitled to. I will continue to disagree as far as my "intellect" will allow, carry on walking and do what I can. One final point though, too many assumptions seem to be made about what people do, don't do or stay silent about, when in actual fact they know nothing about you, cest la vie 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[ljmeerkat75]

I don't think you need to report me Dave i am already on their most wanted list and couldn't agree with you more about J.C funny there was another guy with his initials who performed miracles so  you never know but i doubt it but as you say there isn't a lot the average guy can do about these things except vote for the other guy/gal in the next election

[Wurz]

We do know a lot about the geology in which this will be conducted and it is possible to make it safe and I think the regulation is strong in the UK. The main problems the green lobby cite are from unscrupulous, unregulated extraction in the US. We are short on natural resources and we need to do something about that and I do not like the idea of depending on Russia and other countries for our gas. As for the intrusive nature of the process it will be visible when the drilling is taking place. After this it will be about the size of a small industrial unit and much smaller than even half of the Westmorland services carpark which I am sure you all have used since it opened. Of course there will be more of these and there will be extra traffic while the fracking takes place and that will be unacceptable on some roads. It will be less intrusive than a wind farm producing an equivalent amount of power.

However, shale gas extraction is really a way of getting the Gov out of a fix for not planning the use of resources and goes against their commitments on climate change. They have severely curtailed support for renewables and this is their stop gap - putting off making any meaningful policy decision. They have said it would be an ideal opportunity to use the fracked seams to sequester CO2 but have no plans to do this - and we have plenty of empty space in the old oil wells. We cannot really extract anymore CO2 producing resources and keep within the 2C rise committed to in Paris. I do not have children and grandchildren so this does not affect me and human kind are but a blip on the face of the earth and the earth and life will still be here and thriving despite what we do with the environment - it has already survived much worse.

So my opinion is I don't like it because it will spoil my view of the hills and probably make some of the villages unpleasant to stay in or walk through but there are bigger issues which we are all avoiding and no one wants to take a detailed view of the future or get to grips with the problem because of self interest.

I'm not sure where you got the strong regulation in the UK idea from or the geological knowledge.  The EA, who will be the main watchdog for this sort of thing, along with most other public bodies has had its budget slashed.  Then you've got the operators - the likes of foreign owned Cudrilla causing earthquakes with their small "test" drilling.  The government are only interested in the cash.  And, whilst oil & gas prices remain very low the cost of drilling for it in the UK are not competitive.  a bit like the ex-coal industry.