Guided walks worth it?

[VeloSpeleo]

As a very young person, I was curious about what lay over the wall and beyond.
My Mum recognised this wanderlust and got me to join the Wolf Cubs.
From then on, through scouting, I gained in knowledge and experience, especially how to navigate difficult ground and to find my way using map and compass.
I reckon people that need a guide for a simple walk are lazy.
I have quite radical views on the explosion of walking and outdoor pursuits.
I reckon people are just being led by the nose and they don't have any real commitment.
Whereas back in the sixties and seventies, places like Lakeland and Snowdonia were the haunt of purists, now, every Tom Dick and Harry puts on a pair of Boots and thinks they are instant Hill Walkers.
This would not be so damaging if the attendant groundswell wasn't accompanied by ridiculously out of proportion developments, huge campsites, pouring tonnes of effluent and litter into a fragile environment and mountainsides scared beyond repair.
People that run these guided and organised activities need to get a proper job and leave the wilderness (as was) to others with genuine love and passion.
My best memories are of young folk on foot, bikes and maybe in mini vans, camping in orange mountain tents, spending their days walking and climbing on open crags, then having evenings with guitar, accordion and whistle, supping pints.
Now we have "Glampers" in green wellies, supping expensive wine, all out of the boots of ruddy great four by fours!
The Three Peaks walk has all but ruined Horton in Ribblesdale and summer weekends are now just another urban crush.
Sorry to be so negative, but I bet there are plenty of older folk on here who would concur.

[Islandplodder]

I can see where you are coming from, but as you admit in your post, you learnt in the cubs and scouts about walking and camping.   Some people don't have that opportunity, and everyone has to start somewhere.  Some people are nervous on their own, and start with guided walks while they gain confidence.   Is that laziness, or a desire to learn in the way you learnt in the scouts?  I think most of the people who lead organised outdoor activities do have a genuine passion for the outdoors, otherwise they wouldn't choose that career, and a percentage of their clients may use that experience to develop the kind of passion you would approve of, as a percentage of your scout group did.
 I am interested in natural history and particularly botany, and would pay for a guided walk (as long as I was sure the guide was well informed!) to get an idea of a new area.  You can spend a lot of time looking for a small plant on a big moor!

[fernman]

While I wholeheartedly agree with most of what VeloSpeleo says, I have led fern-themed walks in the past for the British Pteridological Society, London Natural History Society and at least three smaller local societies; whilst not quite the same as walks for walking sake, up to five miles could be covered in a day.
What I'd like to point out is that there are a great many people out there, particularly older ones, and more commonly female, who simply don't have the confidence to go out on their own into non-urban areas and the countryside.
Whereas I and I'm sure many others on this forum think nothing of going to a little-trod spot and exploring, these people are too timid and need someone to metaphorically hold their hand.

[Ridge]

I wholeheartedly disagree with most of what VeloSpeleo says. Those walks he was doing in the Scouts were guided walks.


Why do I, who has been walking for over 40 years, drinks beer, can use a map and compass (well most of the time) and plays the tin whistle (yes, really), have any more right to tramp across the hills than someone who likes sushi and prosecco?
What makes someone a 'purist' no gortex? no tent? no boots?
What 'commitment' do you need to be allowed to enjoy the countryside?
People who walk in the hills for 5 miles once a year may not love/nead it as much as we do but they do it a lot less damage, we are the ones scouring great footpath scars across the fells.


Everyone from Wordsworth onwards has complained that the countryside is being ruined by the people who discovered it after them.

[Islandplodder]

Well, I don't generally enjoy organised outdoor activities myself, which is why I avoided Brownies, Guides and so on like the plague.  (Don't think Duke of Edinburgh was a thing when I were a lass, but I wouldn't have done that either)
I enjoy walking alone, but as an older female I have been frequently asked if I am not nervous, which, as Fernman says, suggests it isn't uncommon.  I also quite enjoy walking in company sometimes, especially as a lot of my local area is pathless moor with no phone signal.  I can't always keep up with the young, and a lot of people my age are no longer happy to have long days out, especially if it is all on rough ground.  At least on a guided walk there is likely to be someone to pass the time of day with, and you don't have to find excuses not to go out with them again.  As was discussed on another thread, the wrong company can be worse than none.
From what I remember of the Lakes and Highlands in the sixties, some of us weren't so much purists as incompetents.  Speaking for myself of course. 
But I totally agree about massed charity walks on the Three peaks.  I wish they'd find another way to make money.  100 times round the office block or something.

[Ronin83]

Wow, there's some real strong resentment there.
I haven't been walking properly for many years and have much more to discover. I didn't go to scouts, do much camping or anything when I was a kid, but that's probably why I appreciate it so much now, because I feel like I missed out.
Also my love of prehistory, paganism, bushcraft, self sufficiency etc mean that walking our land takes on so much more meaning than just covering miles or escaping an office(im an electrician).


So as a passionate late comer, does that make me a pain in the [censored]?


I [censored] myself a little scrambling up the jenduda in Picos, but my girlfriend reminding me that her mum did it and her brother when he was a kid brought out my macho ego/determination and I pushed on.
I would imagine a lot of people might feel very intimidated by it and would prefer a guide(or opt for the cable car lol). That's fair enough I think.
Also a Spanish dude was coming down as we reached the top, we warned him there was a lot of loose rocks due to recent heavy rain and his reaction was hilariously complacent. He was wearing trainers, shrugged, said he came up the day before, then just skipped off like a mountain goat. Made me realise how amateur I am.


So, in conclusion, theres obviously levels, and everyone deserves to enjoy our activity, but I would agree that we need to be careful to protect the natural landscape from those who don't understand the rules, vehicles, etc etc.

[pdstsp]

As a very young person, I was curious about what lay over the wall and beyond.
My Mum recognised this wanderlust and got me to join the Wolf Cubs.
From then on, through scouting, I gained in knowledge and experience, especially how to navigate difficult ground and to find my way using map and compass.
I reckon people that need a guide for a simple walk are lazy.
I have quite radical views on the explosion of walking and outdoor pursuits.
I reckon people are just being led by the nose and they don't have any real commitment.
Whereas back in the sixties and seventies, places like Lakeland and Snowdonia were the haunt of purists, now, every Tom Dick and Harry puts on a pair of Boots and thinks they are instant Hill Walkers.
This would not be so damaging if the attendant groundswell wasn't accompanied by ridiculously out of proportion developments, huge campsites, pouring tonnes of effluent and litter into a fragile environment and mountainsides scared beyond repair.
People that run these guided and organised activities need to get a proper job and leave the wilderness (as was) to others with genuine love and passion.
My best memories are of young folk on foot, bikes and maybe in mini vans, camping in orange mountain tents, spending their days walking and climbing on open crags, then having evenings with guitar, accordion and whistle, supping pints.
Now we have "Glampers" in green wellies, supping expensive wine, all out of the boots of ruddy great four by fours!
The Three Peaks walk has all but ruined Horton in Ribblesdale and summer weekends are now just another urban crush.
Sorry to be so negative, but I bet there are plenty of older folk on here who would concur.

What is a "purist" walker?


You have a couple of valid points in there, particularly about the Y3P etc, but to imply that if you like wine and can't play the accordion you're not a walker is daft, in my opinion.


Tom/Dick/Harry

[richardh1905]

As a very young person, I was curious about what lay over the wall and beyond.
My Mum recognised this wanderlust and got me to join the Wolf Cubs.
From then on, through scouting, I gained in knowledge and experience, especially how to navigate difficult ground and to find my way using map and compass.
I reckon people that need a guide for a simple walk are lazy.
I have quite radical views on the explosion of walking and outdoor pursuits.
I reckon people are just being led by the nose and they don't have any real commitment.
Whereas back in the sixties and seventies, places like Lakeland and Snowdonia were the haunt of purists, now, every Tom Dick and Harry puts on a pair of Boots and thinks they are instant Hill Walkers.
This would not be so damaging if the attendant groundswell wasn't accompanied by ridiculously out of proportion developments, huge campsites, pouring tonnes of effluent and litter into a fragile environment and mountainsides scared beyond repair.
People that run these guided and organised activities need to get a proper job and leave the wilderness (as was) to others with genuine love and passion.
My best memories are of young folk on foot, bikes and maybe in mini vans, camping in orange mountain tents, spending their days walking and climbing on open crags, then having evenings with guitar, accordion and whistle, supping pints.
Now we have "Glampers" in green wellies, supping expensive wine, all out of the boots of ruddy great four by fours!
The Three Peaks walk has all but ruined Horton in Ribblesdale and summer weekends are now just another urban crush.
Sorry to be so negative, but I bet there are plenty of older folk on here who would concur.

I don't quite know what to make of your post, Velo. I sometimes get dismayed by the number of people that I encounter on the hills, in particular the hordes climbing Ben Nevis a few weeks back, but I recognise that I am one of the horde, so I have no right to complain. They have as much right to be there as I.

There are plenty of less frequented places out there, even south of the border, for example the hills to the east of Ullswater, and I hardly met a soul whilst on an overnight camp in the Western Cairngorms recently. Just hunt out the quieter places if you don't like the crowds; or camp out overnight on the hills; sure to be quiet then.

[richardh1905]

Everyone from Wordsworth onwards has complained that the countryside is being ruined by the people who discovered it after them.

^ this

[Mel]

I reckon people that need a guide for a simple walk are lazy.

Not necessarily.  A guided walk may be for someone with visual impairment or disability that means they need assistance.

I reckon people are just being led by the nose and they don't have any real commitment.

It's a real shame you think that.  A walk is a walk, whether it's guided or not.  Anyone signing up for one has committed to that walk and is more likely to turn up if they have paid money for it.

People that run these guided and organised activities need to get a proper job and leave the wilderness (as was) to others with genuine love and passion.

What is a "proper job" please?  I'd like to know if I have one or not.

Sorry to be so negative,

Apology accepted.

[Ronin83]

Yeh the proper job bit is a bit rude and, in my eyes, wrong.


If someone is educating about nature, landscape, useful primitive skills etc then theyre doing a very important 'job'.

[staggerindragon]

I almost always walk solo, so I don't do guided walks often, but when I do, I'm choosy.


One of my best ever wild camping experiences was with a master naturalist/retired geologist.  The group was small and like-minded, and we had the chance to learn from a wonderful man who I think is a national treasure. ;-)  The hike was partly subsidized by a local natural history club.  I guess I think of it as having gone on a 4-day course.


The only other longer trip I've paid for was more culturally based.  After a lot of research, I found a (then) small ecotourism company that did hut to hut trips in Lapland.  Because our guide lived in the area we walked through, he had contacts with people I'd never, ever have been able to meet otherwise.


Both guides ensured strict low-impact camping standards were followed.  We divided any shared food and gear between us and shared the chores, so the experience was much like camping with friends.


The LDNP and YDNP walks can be a lot of fun too--for the same reasons. 


Let's not confuse the guiding issue with overcrowding and irresponsible walkers. 

[dank86]

Nice to hear the 5 years I spent working as an outdoor instructor, introducing children and young people to the great outdoors wasn't a proper job...
 
No wonder people think hiking is elitest with cockwombles making comments like that!

[Mel]

..... cockwombles ....

     word of the day     

[pleb]

That used to be a "chips" word.