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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: peterhw on 12:08:29, 01/02/18

Title: Boot Expectations
Post by: peterhw on 12:08:29, 01/02/18
I am new to the forum and not a great walker - merely someone disappointed with the 'sturdy' boots I purchased.

I came across a post about 10 years old with people referring to boots falling apart, fair 'wear & tear' etc. and just thought I'd add my story.

I purchased a pair of boots some 10 years ago for occasional use in bad weather. We just moved to Scotland and dug my boots out.  I noticed the sole was falling apart / disintegrating and just amazed at the mess.  I have never had this problem with other footwear.

I have probably used them 10 times or less and travelled considerably less than 10 km - hence £5-£10 per use or km seems extreme!

I have contacted the supplier and await a reply.
Am I expecting too much?
Is it so wrong to buy a pair of boots for occasional use and expect them to be serviceable when you wish to use them or does this fall outside the ‘fit for purpose’ phrase?
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: ninthace on 12:43:15, 01/02/18
Welcome to the forum.
Hard to answer your question without knowing what sort of boots they are, how they have been stored and how they have been cared for.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: gunwharfman on 12:46:18, 01/02/18
My wifes original walking boots, all leather, cheap ones made in Eastern Europe, they look like a pair of Brashers and have sat untouched in our garage for about 15 years and have never been moved since then. After reading your thread I decided to have a look at them again. No problem, they were covered in dust and are obviously in need of a good going over to try soften them up again, but they look almost as they did the last time they were used. The insides of the boots look perfect. I'm not gpoing to try to soften them for use again, my wife will never use them anymore. All that she remembers about them was how good they were at grip when crossing slippery rocks. The soles are well worn but in those days she wore them a lot.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: sussamb on 12:51:48, 01/02/18
I have contacted the supplier and await a reply.
Am I expecting too much?


Almost certainly but then it depends on the boots  ;)
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: peterhw on 12:52:11, 01/02/18
Thanks for swift response.
The boots have the name Rogerson with Vibram on the sole with suede / leather upper.  The boots have been stored in under bed drawer for most of the time.  The soles are clean. (PS tried to attach a photo - but too large)


Just seen a second post about 15 year old boots.  Yes I disposed of a pair of boots that I'd had as a teenager (now retired) not long before before I bought these boots 10 years ago - great condition but just too heavy.  I've had a pair of snow boots for many, many years which have shared the same drawer!
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: pilgrimgp7 on 13:00:40, 01/02/18

RUBBER PERISHES


peterhw, good afternoon Sir. I would not regard that as a total surprise & I would also not regard it as a total surprise to pull them out the cupboard looking wearable also but 10 years is a long time & rubber perishes. I assume your boot soles are rubber & not wood.


Rubber is a compound & a chain of something is only as strong as its weakest link which is the join. Anything that attacks that joint can have a devastating affect pretty quickly. Wetsuits go mouldy & rot in the right conditions. Rubber fittings designed to be used in water will crumble & break apart if left dry for example but another type of rubber won't. Car tyres get eroded by friction but if you have enough grip will work in the wet & dry.


In normal use you would probably worn the boots out a few years ago through friction & if they aren't re-soleable you'd have had to buy some more wouldn't you mate. I know they used to test rubber & the longevity of it with ozone as ozone attacks the sulphide which makes the elasticity & when that has happened it looks similar to what you describe.


Get some new boots pal, put the devastating discovery behind you & get out there for a walk.


10 years to not use boots is disgusting peterhw. The poor things have curled up & died in shame.

Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: ninthace on 13:08:18, 01/02/18
Google is not a lot of help on this brand - the only Rogerson I could find is a chain of shoe shops in Scotland rather than a manufacturer. I couldn't find Veram soles either - sounds like someone trying to rip off vibram soles - they are not made in China are they?
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: peterhw on 13:19:42, 01/02/18
Hi


Rogerson have a number of stores in Scotland.  The boots have the Rogerson name on inside of the sole.
The sole states VIBRAM / Verra Gomma / Made in Italy
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: peterhw on 13:25:09, 01/02/18
....I couldn't find Veram soles either - sounds like someone trying to rip off vibram soles - they are not made in China are they?


Apologies ..Vibram
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: peterhw on 14:38:14, 01/02/18
Wonderful news.
Rogerson still supply this product line, have the same size in stock and have agreed to replace.
Two or three exchanges of email with photos and they accept this should not happen


Excellent customer service - not just the outcome - polite , responsive and address the details of the query


Thanks for all contributions
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: ninthace on 15:22:56, 01/02/18
Good news - now try to wear the new ones out!
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: peterhw on 15:27:58, 01/02/18
Good news - now try to wear the new ones out!


I think I'd struggle to do that at my age !
Thanks again for comments and interest
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: KimE on 13:09:57, 10/02/18
Swedeish military had a boot problem then they had maybee 50000 pairs in storage over 10 years then the soldiers used them the sole were sometimes left in their tracks. They are now replaced by new Finnish Seivi boots. The dryout sole problem seems to come then the boots not are used for a long time.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: peterhw on 13:23:59, 10/02/18
Interesting piece of information.
I suspect ..


Quote
The dryout sole problem seems to come then the boots not are used for a long time

..only happens with a specific type of rubber.  As previously stated in the thread I had an old pair of BOOTs from a teenager and got rid after 30 ish years(not least because they were 'heavy' and old 'looking'. I also have snow boots from my 20's skiing holidays which I use occasionally (we had snow a couple of weeks ago).  Both had a rubber sole and 30-40 years later with infrequent use were still very serviceable.


Thanks again for all contributions and full marks to Rogerson customer service
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: KimE on 13:50:36, 10/02/18
Yes a part of the sole problem is what the boot manufactorers has to use new environment friendly materials such as new glue for the sole.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 16:14:18, 10/02/18
A quality leather boot should never fall apart, it all depends on how well their maintained and looked after from day one.
If the leather uppers are dried correctly (never force dried in front of a heat source such as a radiator or fire) and treated with a high quality shoe polish, then good quality boots can last a significant time.

I still have a pair of my original 1980s Brasher Boots in my garage, the ones i failed to reach my LDWA Hundred target on two attempts. 

The sole and footbed are way beyond repair, having collapsed in the centre, but the leather uppers, even though they have dried out, are in still good condition, an indication  how well they were made.

Look after your boots, and treat the leather with the respect it deserves, and the boots can last many years.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Mel on 21:09:18, 10/02/18
A quality leather boot should never fall apart, .....

....I still have a pair of my original 1980s Brasher Boots in my garage, .... 

....The sole and footbed are way beyond repair, having collapsed in the centre,


I guess they're not a quality leather boot then seeing as they've....well....fallen apart  ;)








I shall wait with baited breath for the next rendition of War and Peace  O0


PS.. NEVER use shoe polish... baby unicorns die when you use shoe polish on walking boots.  I (apparently) have killed many baby unicorns  :D
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 10:34:32, 11/02/18
I had nearly seven years constant use out of them, using them for well over forty or so Challenge Walks on the English border and in Wales.
The original Brasher boots were made here in The Uk, and think the newer ones, are manufactured in Italy.

They were resoled as well, by the company that used to operate out of Preston arcade.

It all depends on how well you look after your gear.

High quality boots should last a minimum of seven years of regular use, possibly longer  if their maintained well.

Its the walker who throws their boots into the back of his or her car, and never cleans or maintains them after each walk, their usually the ones who complain my boots are falling apart, or have only lasted a few years.

Everytime i visit the Pen Y Gwyrydd, i marvel at the equipment used on the successful 1953 Everest assent,  the boots are still in fine condition.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: tonyk on 11:37:57, 11/02/18
Yes a part of the sole problem is what the boot manufactorers has to use new environment friendly materials such as new glue for the sole.

 I should imagine that was the problem with the Millets trail shoes that I purchased.I used them for a coast to coast walk and by the time I reached Robin Hood's Bay both soles had become detached and were flapping.Took them back to the shop when I got home and they admitted there had been a problem with them and gave me a full refund.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: meems on 17:15:17, 11/02/18
Hi, I got some £50 walking boots for christmas. think the brand was highgear. I did about 100 miles in them in January over stony gravel + sand footpaths. Disappointed to see the soles already had significant wear on them after just 1 month. The rubber heels had formed holes to pre-existing hollows within soles. At this rate I would imagine the soles would be worn thru in 6 months. About as bad as some cheapo outdoor shoes I got from JJB, which were wrecked in many ways after 6 months offroad walking.
I was hoping to do a lot more walking during nicer months, so maybe only get 4 months before the soles are worn thru. I can't imagine the army would tolerate this rate of sole erosion. The rest of the boot was fine.
Gonna try get my money back on them.

How is this not such a common problem that this forum has a boot tier list? U must get a lot of people discussing this problem here. How long should soles last? How quick does the army get thru boots? Which boots have the best soles?
 
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Mel on 17:38:23, 11/02/18
Durability of soles is a pretty subjective thing.  I go through footwear quite quickly because I'm overweight and do most of my regular walking on gritty disused railway tracks so the combined action is like scrubbing really hard on sandpaper  ;D   Some folks are light and nimble on their feet so would get longer wear out of the same footwear.  Some folks don't walk all that often so their footwear would also last longer.  My experience is that cheaper footwear has softer soles - great if you want grip but pants if you want longevity  :-\   On the plus side, you can buy two or more pairs for the price of one more expensive pair  O0


My more expensive shoes have lasted me 2 years and probably done around 600 miles.  They're showing their age now with plenty of wear on the soles, but they're not ready for the knackers yard just yet.  I think they'll see this summer out before I need to replace them *sobs*

Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: sussamb on 21:08:25, 11/02/18
Hi, I got some £50 walking boots for christmas. think the brand was highgear. I did about 100 miles in them in January over stony gravel + sand footpaths. Disappointed to see the soles already had significant wear on them after just 1 month. The rubber heels had formed holes to pre-existing hollows within soles. At this rate I would imagine the soles would be worn thru in 6 months. About as bad as some cheapo outdoor shoes I got from JJB, which were wrecked in many ways after 6 months offroad walking.
I was hoping to do a lot more walking during nicer months, so maybe only get 4 months before the soles are worn thru. I can't imagine the army would tolerate this rate of sole erosion. The rest of the boot was fine.
Gonna try get my money back on them.

How is this not such a common problem that this forum has a boot tier list? U must get a lot of people discussing this problem here. How long should soles last? How quick does the army get thru boots? Which boots have the best soles?
 


To be fair not sure you can expect much more from boots that cheap. 
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: KimE on 21:26:00, 11/02/18
My new armyboots have so hard sole i have to use my winter army boots. I think the army may get 1,5-2 years continuse use from a pair but many soldiers buys civilian outdoor boots instead.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: meems on 13:02:24, 12/02/18
To be fair not sure you can expect much more from boots that cheap.
Rest of the boot is sturdy and decent. What's the magic ingredient in a durable sole that costs so much these days?

20 years ago my grandad give me his old walking boots, they were tougher than any other boot I've known. He'd used them for decades and they were still solid, soles included. One day came back from college to find my mum had thrown them away, along with dozens of other good shoes in one of her random 'clean outs'.

I don't believe manufacturers have lost the ingredients list handed down for generations of boot manufacturers to make durable soles that don't wear thin after 500 miles of walking. If car tires had the same poor durability they'd be worn out within a week. You'd have to change them every time you went for petrol.
Its a conspiracy - make boot soles as soft as possible without consumers self-organising their own supply of decent soles. For the average consumer who averages a 10 mile outdoor trek once a week, they get a year's wear from a boot (500-600 miles ) before the soles are gone. But a serious walker can easily do 100 miles in a week.
I'm just hoping there's an alternative market, sustained by the army perhaps, for soles that aren't made of cheese.

So I have to pay £100+ just to get some soles made of slightly more durable cheese? bah. I'll rather go to the old car tire dump and cut my own soles from old tires. Tell other people. Supply them, build a community, have a net forum, youtube channel - how to DIY 100+ years worth of boot soles from a single car tire. Then see how the cheese-boot racket reacts, maybe panic and lobby the gov to make cutting soles from car tires illegal cos it breaks safety regulations.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 13:23:03, 12/02/18
I always remember the Vibram sole fitted to a pair of Scarpa Mantas i owned many years ago.
Even back then, the boots were not cheap, but the materials used were very high quality, and the sole was almost bullet proof.
Even after a few seasons use, both on hard rock and grass, there was not a lot of wear on them.

I have not seen a recent pair of Scarpa boots, or Mantas, if they still make them,  but the attention to the stitching and over all construction of the boot, was of a very high standard.

This was well over twenty years ago, so either the manufacturing process has become less focused on quality, or Scarpa still make a very high class premium product.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: meems on 13:24:08, 12/02/18
lulz. knew i wasn't crazy. there's much more DIY in 'merica, and they've been applying this idea for a long time.
its easy to find DIY webpages that do just this :, but i can't link to external sites on this forum. ( hmm wonder why? maybe cos they cheese sole racket sponser this site and they don't want you seeing that handymen make their own durable soles from car tyres!).
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: tonyk on 13:29:33, 12/02/18
 I think manufacturers use a softer compound to give better grip.Bit like racing car tyres in that a softer tyre will give better grip but will wear much quicker.The old vibram sole was a bit slippy on wet rocks and also made from a hard compound.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: NeilC on 09:14:57, 13/02/18

To be fair not sure you can expect much more from boots that cheap.


it's true. People are happy to spend £75 on a pair of fabric trainers which are stamped out of factories for pennies but not so keen to invest in a pair of quality boots.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: BuzyG on 22:34:30, 13/02/18
Good to hear the OP got a replacement pair of boots.    O0


I had a pair split their stitching.  I decided, after discussion on here, that it was likely my own fault for drying them too close to the boiler. 
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:09:58, 14/02/18
Thinking about the cheap Czeck boots I bought in the 60s suggests to me that modern boots are designed to have a short life, so we will buy them all over again. My 60s boots lasted for years! My conclusion is that the manufacturers done this deliberately to further their profits. Modern day boots have rubbish grip as well, the manufacturers would have us belive its all in the sole pattern and their 'modern' materials, which I would suggest is nonsense! Every boot that I've purchased in the last 10 years are let down by their soles in particular! As I've said before, I just do not believe in the idea you get what you pay for, its more complicated than that.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 13:17:09, 14/02/18
Ive just checked, Scarpa still produce their Manta boot, but their not a cheap option.
By the looks of the photographs and reviews, the quality of manufacture is still there, but at £200+ depending on the model, their at the top end of the market, but at least the quality is still available if your prepared to pay for t.
Even the original style Vibram sole is used, making them a good option for the discerning walker looking for a boot that will last.


It goes to show, that if your still prepared to spend a sizeable amount on high quality gear, the quality of manufacture is still out there, but like all tried and tested products, quality usually costs a lot of money.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Mel on 14:02:59, 14/02/18
I'm converted... when I get in tonight I'm gonna slash next door's car tyres up and make myself some flipflops.

... now do I make a toe post type or a bridge type?
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Strider on 15:11:41, 14/02/18
Does it matter if you use premium Michelins or budget ditchfinders ?
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Ridge on 15:40:42, 14/02/18
And you don't even suggest a cobblers.
Interestingly cobblers is exactly what I thought.


That is my first and last post in this thread, I am going back to knitting an Aston Villa scarf now.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: Mel on 15:54:59, 14/02/18
Does it matter if you use premium Michelins or budget ditchfinders ?


I guess budget ditchfinders won't last as long  :-\    ... might slash the Merc upstreet instead ...


Do you want a pair strider?  I can decal them with nail varnish (colour of your choice).  Mates rates and all that?



Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: BuzyG on 16:50:45, 14/02/18
There' some cobblers in this thread alright. ;)


Paid £79 a per for my walking boots.  The first pair split after about 1000miles. My own daft fault.  I'm still using them on dry days though, as the soles have plenty left in them.


Second, identical pair, I keep away from heat sources, when drying, so I am expecting them to be comfy, grippy and waterproof for a good few 1000s.  O0
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: meems on 17:01:57, 14/02/18
Hi Mel, while we keep the tyre jokes rollin' lets look at some figures


£50 boots  -> 600 miles
£80 boots -> 1000 miiles

£20 trainers -> 2000 miles

£30 car tyre -> 20,000 miles
£50 car tyre -> 60,000 miles

Timpson resole cost : £17 ( extra 800 miles ? )
Local cobbler resole cost  : £10 ( extra 1000 miles ? )

Timpson are a nationwide chain store and are notoriously expensive. Likely owned by boot manufacturers, who don't like people resoling boots for cheap.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: RogerA on 17:28:24, 14/02/18
There' some cobblers in this thread alright. ;)

Agreed ...
Roger - over and out - see you in the next thread
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: MichaelUK on 19:08:24, 14/02/18
The best winter/wet weather boots ive had are the Haix Cold Wet Weather boot. An army issue boot, 4 layer Gortex laminate. Nice and warm and extremely water proof, and bomb proof. Second hand via E-Bay. Great sole and traction, and great ankle support. Many miles over peat bogs, deep heather and rough track. Can be bought new, via e-bay for £60 upwards. Well worth a look. Yes they are a high boot, but very comfortable and come in various width fittings.
Title: Re: Boot Expectations
Post by: April on 22:34:35, 14/02/18
I am going back to knitting an Aston Villa scarf now.

 ;D