Author Topic: Need your help please.  (Read 3199 times)

walking-books

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Need your help please.
« on: 10:44:22, 02/07/08 »
As some of you know I am a publisher of walking guides and I'm always on the look out for giving my customers guides they actually like using and this is where hopefully you come in.

My books come in a box with 20 walks in each on an A5 laminated card that includes on one side an OS or Harvey map showing the route and on the reverse the route written out and various bits of info on the places to visit etc.

I am considering publishing a series of new guides on the long distance walks around the country, (with the Coast to Coast favourite to be the first title), and I'd be really grateful if you could let me know what it is you'd like to see in a new guide and what you don't like about the current crop of guides.

From talking privately to a few on here and other people it seems that there isn't enough info on places of interest & accomodation away from the actually walk route.

I would be enormously grateful for any advice from anyone. If you'd rather do it by email please do so to [email protected]
Many thanks.
Mike

www.walking-books.com
Books, guides and maps on Britain's best scenic walks

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Ian s

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #1 on: 11:12:04, 02/07/08 »
Hi Mike,
I'd tend to agree that most queries on here about long distance trails are to do with logistics - where can I buy food, campsites, pubs,etc.
I do quite a few West Highland Way  and CTC trips and these are also the things that people ask about the most when thinking of doing those.

I guess that the problem is making sure that information is up to date, as these things change. Nothing worse than a guidebook with out-of date info.

Things I don't like about existing guidebooks? The format is often not user-friendly in the field once you've stuck the book in a waterproof pouch it's a faff to turn the pages and to fit it in your pocket requires you to fold the spine back and trash the book.  Your laminated cards in a box format sounds interesting. One thing I've found on long distance trips is that the background/historical/environmental info can make good reading when not actually walking. So I could imagine following a route card by day having read the background from  a book the night before.

Ian
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www.mountainfreedom.co.uk - Guided walking, scrambling and mountain skills throughout Scotland and further afield

tonyk

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #2 on: 11:26:14, 02/07/08 »
 Perhaps it would be an idea to produce guide books in ebook format so they could be updated every few months.Customers can then print the book at home and also have the benefit of not having to worry about damaging the book in the field.I suggested this format to a friend who publishes martial arts books in America and since adopting it his sales have almost quadrupled.We live in an age where people wnat everything on the minute and being able to click on a link and instantly download it catches them before they change their mind and see something else.Ebooks are far cheaper to produce than printed books and any that do get pirated will be offset against the increase in profits.

Ridge

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #3 on: 11:34:52, 02/07/08 »
I guess that the problem is making sure that information is up to date, as these things change. Nothing worse than a guidebook with out-of date info.
Even if you don't go the ebook route could buying the book allow you to link to a website with up to date info?

Quote
The format is often not user-friendly in the field once you've stuck the book in a waterproof pouch it's a faff to turn the pages and to fit it in your pocket requires you to fold the spine back and trash the book.
Most books are small and fat, they fit easily in to your pack but not a map pouch, I would prefer larger pages and therefore overall a thinner book, and spiral bound.

Quote
  Your laminated cards in a box format sounds interesting
There is a Japanese story telling method (stay with me guys this is culture!) called kamishibai where you have a stack of cards and the information on the back of the back card relates to the picture on the front of the front card. You then move the front card to the back and carry on. The only problem with this is you have to keep the cards in order but it would allow you to more easily move on if they were all in a map pouch than having to turn the pages of a book.

walking-books

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #4 on: 13:17:10, 02/07/08 »
Hi Mike,
I'd tend to agree that most queries on here about long distance trails are to do with logistics - where can I buy food, campsites, pubs,etc.
I do quite a few West Highland Way  and CTC trips and these are also the things that people ask about the most when thinking of doing those.

I guess that the problem is making sure that information is up to date, as these things change. Nothing worse than a guidebook with out-of date info.

Things I don't like about existing guidebooks? The format is often not user-friendly in the field once you've stuck the book in a waterproof pouch it's a faff to turn the pages and to fit it in your pocket requires you to fold the spine back and trash the book.  Your laminated cards in a box format sounds interesting. One thing I've found on long distance trips is that the background/historical/environmental info can make good reading when not actually walking. So I could imagine following a route card by day having read the background from  a book the night before.

Ian
www.mountainfreedom.co.uk

Hi Ian
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I take on board your comments about out of date info and intend to ensure it's as current as can be with contact info for users to confirm at the time of their travel.
As I intend to continue my current theme of walking cards I am restricted to what will fit on an A5 card without it looking cluttered so hopefully there will be a nice balance between the route guide and additional info on the area itself.
With the idea being to spilt the Coast to Coast walk up into 20 walk cards with approx a days walking on each the faff you speak of with traditional books will be eliminated and as a bonus the walk is easily read from the walk card in its own weatherproof mapcase.




Perhaps it would be an idea to produce guide books in ebook format so they could be updated every few months.Customers can then print the book at home and also have the benefit of not having to worry about damaging the book in the field.I suggested this format to a friend who publishes martial arts books in America and since adopting it his sales have almost quadrupled.We live in an age where people wnat everything on the minute and being able to click on a link and instantly download it catches them before they change their mind and see something else.Ebooks are far cheaper to produce than printed books and any that do get pirated will be offset against the increase in profits.

Thanks tonyk - ebooks are a very interesting idea and something I have given some thought to. Not come to any conclusion how it would work but I suppose it would have to be based around my website where people could download a walk much as they do at the walking mag sites.


Even if you don't go the ebook route could buying the book allow you to link to a website with up to date info?
Most books are small and fat, they fit easily in to your pack but not a map pouch, I would prefer larger pages and therefore overall a thinner book, and spiral bound.
There is a Japanese story telling method (stay with me guys this is culture!) called kamishibai where you have a stack of cards and the information on the back of the back card relates to the picture on the front of the front card. You then move the front card to the back and carry on. The only problem with this is you have to keep the cards in order but it would allow you to more easily move on if they were all in a map pouch than having to turn the pages of a book.

Hi Ridge, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I like the Kamishibai story...When I first started publishing my guides 15 years ago I looked at the spiral bound idea but settled on the laminated walking cards. My current titles have 20 walks in each pack with a seperate walk on each card. This allows the walker to do away with the fat books you speak of in favour of a walk card for that days walking with maybe the relevant OS map as back up.

Great responses - thanks again for your help. Any more ideas will be gratefully received.
« Last Edit: 13:19:12, 02/07/08 by walking-books »
Mike

www.walking-books.com
Books, guides and maps on Britain's best scenic walks

Come and have a chat on Twitter - walkingbookscom

walkinggirluk

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #5 on: 13:17:47, 02/07/08 »
This sounds like an interesting issue...  On doing my SUW Hike (I can say hike can't I), I found the lack of campsites open throughout the year,  along the way apart from wild camping/bothies as most don't open until may. Which I found out about on phoning them but this is up to the council disquisition . Also the distance from town/village is far and few between.  It a good route, but if you don't phone the campsite and turn up they can easily turn you away.  In the guide it doesn't state this as the guide  have  alternatives like B&B, YHA, bunk barns etc etc, but  the practicalities that  most of us may enjoy the fact of camping along the way as will as a mid winter hike but unfortunately there no suitable campsite that are open at different   times of years.  where most peeps are still in doors!! I do like the sound of it though.  It's going to be  tough for you to get most of the information  that peeps on here what!!! As there so many peeps that do things in different ways to the next IMHO, but am sure most will help out here even if it's optional of opinion.   But like anyone you've got to start some where. The only other thing is things change for 'lets say week to week'.  As we live in a fast moving world even for the countryside where that ultra moving.  I take this on board as this happened to me on the SUW phone all the campsite up on where were open on which most was until we set off got to one town and found the campsite demolished nothing there luckily the owner was on site even at 22:00 hours and said they were under reconstruction of site.  This is the best bit about it. No other campsite for 15miles to the next town. (That's right no other campsite until the next town), I thought gosh I was [censored] really was my legs were like jelly I just thought NNNNNNooooooooooo. But the guys were so kindly to up us up for the night free of charge even made us a cup de soup.  Got us  a gas fire made us feel so welcome.  Now once this site  is reconstructed unsure whether it be of tent use.   Unsure but I hope it lifts of for you.
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walking-books

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #6 on: 16:49:32, 02/07/08 »
Thanks walkinggirluk. I guess up to date info is a prime concern of people and whilst the guides won't be reprinted every year it is my intention to include sources for the user to access the most up to date info possible via websites or phone numbers as well as what's included in each book.

I've just read your report on the SUW Hike.....jeeeeez, your fingers must be as tired as your feet were after typing up all that. I'm knackered from just reading it - great report!
Mike

www.walking-books.com
Books, guides and maps on Britain's best scenic walks

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muymalestado

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #7 on: 20:59:06, 02/07/08 »
Well, W-B I guess after 15 years experience of publishing guides, and I suppose you look at other examples in this market, you will pretty much know by now what works and what is desired.  It speaks well that you are still asking here and are open to suggestion.  Do you offer customers a route to offer suggestions?  Pay-per-print models exist in various sites.  PayPal for small sums could be onerous for the fees they extract.  One model would be to ask for committment: get customers to pay into an account, as they print so their account is debited.

As to fat guidebooks - we decide which pages are required and slice the book appropriately into lightweight manageable chunks.  Disorder in a high wind is not a problem.  Most guides on these shelves are tied together by strips of cloth, or an update has been purchased.
I think this next one will be the top ...

Ridge

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #8 on: 10:20:45, 03/07/08 »
On doing my SUW Hike (I can say hike can't I),
- you did it, you can call it what ever you want :)


Just a thought. I can see that laminates are great for a single day but do they start to get heavy when you are carrying 2 weeks worth?

walking-books

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #9 on: 10:57:17, 03/07/08 »
Just a thought. I can see that laminates are great for a single day but do they start to get heavy when you are carrying 2 weeks worth?

Good thought Ridge...my current products (20 cards & map case) weigh 220grams and, even though there will probably be a couple of extra cards to include the info on accomodation/places of interest etc walkers will need, I don't forsee the new range weighing much more.
Mike

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Books, guides and maps on Britain's best scenic walks

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walkinggirluk

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #10 on: 11:48:26, 03/07/08 »
Thanks walkinggirluk. I guess up to date info is a prime concern of people and whilst the guides won't be reprinted every year it is my intention to include sources for the user to access the most up to date info possible via websites or phone numbers as well as what's included in each book.

I've just read your report on the SUW Hike.....jeeeeez, your fingers must be as tired as your feet were after typing up all that. I'm knackered from just reading it - great report!

Cheers Walking-boots............. Oops might 'books' (That's what I thought you were called once LOL).... Am sure there are guys on here that are welling to help you out... You say your doing the C2C first can I ask which one as there so many LDP that call themselves the C2C....... Regrading my SUW I haven't even had time to put the rest of the picture up!!! I was concentrating on the report more... Took me a few days to do it.   
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walking-books

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #11 on: 12:11:43, 03/07/08 »
Cheers Walking-boots............. Oops might 'books' (That's what I thought you were called once LOL).... Am sure there are guys on here that are welling to help you out... You say your doing the C2C first can I ask which one as there so many LDP that call themselves the C2C....... Regrading my SUW I haven't even had time to put the rest of the picture up!!! I was concentrating on the report more... Took me a few days to do it.   

 ;D I remember you confusing books for boots - basic error for a walker of your obvious talents.  ;)

My idea was to do the traditional Wainwright Coast to Coast west to east from St Bees to RHB.

Something that did cross my mind was just how popular it is these days although I'm not sure who would have that info.
Mike

www.walking-books.com
Books, guides and maps on Britain's best scenic walks

Come and have a chat on Twitter - walkingbookscom

forest view

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Re: Need your help please.
« Reply #12 on: 00:25:53, 05/07/08 »
The a5 laminated cards do work. We have made some for the circular walks starting and ending at the walkers accommodation that we run up in the cheviots. The walkers like them as they fit into a pouch so they can read both sides and watch out for the points of interest that I have photographed and printed among the text. The fact that they are laminated means that even casual walkers who dont have a map pouch can take them out and they dont get ruined if it rains. Regarding the weight issue if they are A5 you could post half to yourself at your half way point accommodation and when you get there post the first half home.
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