Taking a bearing in clag

[Ridge]

Almost everything that I was going to add has already been said by others.
I have a really simple and old GPS which just tells me my current position, if I am not sure, and then a bearing is possible. Hitting a linear feature and knowing which way to turn is preferable but pacing, while tricky and inaccurate, can be useful.


We used all these methods in anger in the Lakes this year, the first time in a long while that we had such awful weather. It was great to refresh them and find that we were OK.

[sussamb]

If you're in clag in a mountainous area (but know roughly where you are), is taking a compass bearing pointless?

As you can see Mel, and probably realised given who posted it, it certainly isn't pointless 

[jimbob]

As you can see Mel, and probably realised given who posted it, it certainly isn't pointless 

At least with a Thomen Altimeter  one would be able to tell how high one was?

If it suddenly started showing a severe loss of altitude one would realise one had stepped off the cliff.

[tonyk]

At least with a Thomen Altimeter  one would be able to tell how high one was?

I see an essay size post coming..........
 

[barewirewalker]

I have found that walking along a known bearing even if the start point is unknown, can give sufficient information to be able to deduce the location you are in. There then becomes a point at which you meet a predicted feature, inferred from info on the map, which will confirm your location, if you are lucky.

The reverse of this was my experience, whilst at school on a CCF exercise, as the platoon had only one compass and the sudden exhaustion of one member, I was sent ahead with two others to warn the rendevous point that our party would be late. This was on the Berwyns in thick mist, at the point we intersected the river that drops at Pistyll Rhaeadre, here we bunched up to give mutual support in crossing the river, being with out a map we did not know that crossing a river would mean that we were already off course, (only one map per platoon, it was in the 1950's and war shortages were still on),  we were doing the classic veer to the right.

Some time later, well after our scheduled meeting point with refreshment and rendevous for a bus to return to school, we found the cliff edge of Cader Berwyn. I knew precisely where we were, and as we wandered towards Llanrhaeadre down the lane, an army jeep sped up the road towards us. It contained a corporal driver and a national service 2nd Lieutenant, who asked us if we were the schoolboys reported lost on the Berwyns.
No we were not lost we knew precisely where we were. We had just had left behind a platoon leader who made a wrong decision and so we were in the wrong place.  Ironic really, we had in our possession 3 very serviceable .303 Lee Enfield rifles.
The three of us had thoroughly enjoyed the excursion, had a far better meal in the Park Hall officers mess than we would back at school and were treated to bitter shandies, great excitement for a 14 year old and caused much jealousy on our return to barracks, sorry old alma mater back to school 

[BuzyG]

  lots of places are worse than Dartmoor.

Agreed if there are solid trees even buildings in the way then navigation is even harder.  However as open ground goes, Dartmoor is a darn good test.  In heavy fog a few weeks back I was stopping every 500 yards or so to check my position and bearing and I know the area better than many.  In contrast despite the cloud and similar visibility on our Scafell walk this week, an area I have never walked before.  The navigation was far simpler due to so many features.

[richardh1905]

If you're in clag in a mountainous area (but know roughly where you are), is taking a compass bearing pointless?

I suppose that it depends. If you are following a clearly defined natural feature or a well marked path, possibly not worth getting the compass out. But even then, it's nice to check just to confirm that you are on the right track.


Taking a back bearing as you approach a summit can be useful too, as well as making a mental note of any prominent pathside features - it is all too easy to set off in the wrong drection after you have stopped at the trig point for your lunch. I've had friends who ended up spending the night in Eskdale instead of Wasdale after blundering on Scafell Pike.

[Mel]

So we're all agreed then that it still is worth digging ye olde compassee out if the clag appears 

[sussamb]

'bout sums it up 

[ninthace]

So we're all agreed then that it still is worth digging ye olde compassee out if the clag appears 

Personally I would only reach for ye north pointing (well south pointing actually) compasse if ye new fangled gee pee esse and  roving electronic communications device with mappyng function had bothe packed up. But for the traditionalists amongst ye, I am of one accord with thee Mel

[jontea]

I didn't want to hijack another thread where this is mentioned but a comment on there got me wondering ....


If you're in clag in a mountainous area (but know roughly where you are), is taking a compass bearing pointless?

DA certainly is a thread starter Mel, I read that post and was going to comment but couldn’t be bothered.


From what I can remember, had he been bothered to dig out his compass (if he had one) he would not have gone around in circles for an hour? And I think he clearly didn’t know the area well enough not to have some form of navigating tool.


As others have gone to great lengths to explain the importance of navigating tools in thick clag, Unless you’re turning around on a very obviously steep path (heading downhill) back down a well defined path without any junctions it’s never pointless taking a compass bearing.
Even on a well defined path, but almost level, regardless of knowing your position. in clag it is very difficult to assess which direction you need to head for.
A simple check on a compass takes literally seconds to do.


For those of us that regularly walk in such conditions, it is an automatic response to start using navigating tools, whether it be map and compass, or GPS.

[BuzyG]

I suppose that it depends. If you are following a clearly defined natural feature or a well marked path, possibly not worth getting the compass out. But even then, it's nice to check just to confirm that you are on the right track.


Taking a back bearing as you approach a summit can be useful too, as well as making a mental note of any prominent pathside features - it is all too easy to set off in the wrong drection after you have stopped at the trig point for your lunch. I've had friends who ended up spending the night in Eskdale instead of Wasdale after blundering on Scafell Pike.

Spookily enough we met a couple on Scafell Pike on Monday, in thick cloud.  Their GPS had packed up and they had no compass, just a view ranger OS paper map, that was getting wet.  After some instruction on how to walk in a straight line in poor visibility, we set them on a course to the main summit path.  They may still be there, for all I know.  Always take a compass.

[sparnel]

This thread brings to  mind an incident told to me by a member of the local MRT when they were called out to
find a lost walker on Rannoch Moor. They found the guy cold, wet and very lost. He told them he didn't need a compass as he navigated by by the wind.........hope it nobody on here!

[Jim Parkin]

Also consider that if you sort of have an idea of where you are you can go on a bearing to a linear feature that intersects your line of advance (walls, tracks streams etc.)  Once you have found that you can follow the feature to an identifiable point (bend in the wall, intersection with another wall, gateway etc.)  Then you will have a better idea of where you are.


I think I may have said before, the art of not getting lost is to navigate constantly.  Never pass a feature, bend, intersection, change of gradient etc, without accounting for it and at the same time working out what will come next in terms of features and direction of travel. That way, if you enter cloud or fog you should have a good idea of where you were at that point and what bearing to follow.  Even if you are following a path, have the compass out all the time in cloud to check the path is going in the direction you expect; in poor visibility it is easy to stray onto the wrong track.  Follow the same methodology, what direction should you be going in and what is coming up that may give you another fix? Keep track of elapsed time and speed to work out distance travelled,  that way you will know when you should be approaching an identifiable feature to get a fix on your position.

Bolded a very important part. 

And as for the first question

"The lack of features renders it pointless"
Er, no, that is why one uses the compass.

[Jim Parkin]

This thread brings to  mind an incident told to me by a member of the local MRT when they were called out to
find a lost walker on Rannoch Moor. They found the guy cold, wet and very lost. He told them he didn't need a compass as he navigated by by the wind.........hope it nobody on here!

I remember going on a trip at University to the Southern Uplands in mist, and one guy wanted to go off on his own and said "the wind always blows from the South West"
I always try to work out where I am, even if I'm in a group and not officially the navigator.