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Main Boards => News and Articles => Topic started by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 23:10:55, 04/12/16

Title: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 23:10:55, 04/12/16
There is current discussion, that drivers who take another motorists, or pedestrians life, through downright negligence, such as excessive speed or using a mobile phone whilst driving, may in the near future receive a lengthy prison sentence.
The real serious offenders, such as the recent lorry driver who ploughed into the back of stationary traffic whilst correcting his Sat/Nav, killing several motorists in the process, would get a life term in prison, which amounts to 14yrs.


If the Governments current proposals, get the go ahead, hopefully the use of mobile phones whilst driving may become a thing of the past, because currently there is no deterent harsh enough to deter motorists.


Is this a step to far ? or is it necessary to prevent further carnage on our roads?
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Mel on 23:52:08, 04/12/16
Lock em up and throw away the key.  No exceptions.
 
The biggest problem is policing it.  I doubt life imprisonment would be a deterrent to be honest and once the damage has been done (killed someone) then it's a bit like shutting the door after the horse has bolted.  It's a pity "average Joe's" dashboard cam footage can't be used as evidence to prosecute drivers - certainly those who use their phones whilst driving, even if they haven't caused an accident.
 
On a lighter note, I take a great deal of sadistic pleasure watching people [censored] themselves when I'm alongside them at traffic lights and watching them texting... they look up... see me looking at them.... they see the logo on my uniform.... the expression on their faces is priceless  >:D
 
... so think on anyone who does text whilst driving ..... you never know who is watching you  ;)
 
 
PS. the (no doubt) censored word rhymes with spit.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: fernman on 08:43:42, 05/12/16
Agreed.
I read this weekend of a lorry driver who was sending a message to his girlfriend on Facebook on his mobile phone four seconds before he hit a car in front of him, crushing it against the lorry in front of it.
The two men in the car were killed.
His sentence? Six years. For taking two lives.

I only replied because I feel strongly about it, but I have to ask, what on earth has this got to do with walking? It should have been in the Hikers Bar if anywhere at all.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: route2rock on 19:14:30, 05/12/16
  It's a pity "average Joe's" dashboard cam footage can't be used as evidence to prosecute drivers - certainly those who use their phones whilst driving, even if they haven't caused an accident.

If you ever capture an accident or serious offence, I would call 101 and let them know you have footage, as it could be valuable to a police investigation.

I know police can use it in some situations.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: fernman on 19:54:37, 05/12/16
Very true. In my road all those of us with cctv cameras on our houses get the police knocking whenever there's been a mugging or stabbing.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Mel on 22:06:00, 05/12/16
If you ever capture an accident or serious offence, I would call 101 and let them know you have footage, as it could be valuable to a police investigation.

I know police can use it in some situations.

Aye, I thought that would be the case for an actual accident.  Pity that dash-cams can't be used to prevent an accident though cos I think that would be more of a deterrent to stop folks texting whilst driving if they knew they could be prosecuted based on anyone's dash-cam footage.
 
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Percy on 22:20:27, 05/12/16
I believe the plan is to bring sentences in line with manslaughter which seems absolutely right to me.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: gunwharfman on 11:23:59, 06/12/16
OK with me,  plus fiddling with radio,  adjusting sat nav,  eating,  drinking, peeing into a Tizer bottle, make up and plucking eyebrows. I've seen them all! Have I forgotten anything?
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: wintonian on 21:35:39, 12/12/16
...Eating breakfast ceral (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi_xt-9zO_QAhWoIsAKHa6kAS0QFgguMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fhome-news%2Fdriver-caught-eating-cereal-behind-the-wheel-confronted-by-off-duty-cycle-instructor-10326439.html&usg=AFQjCNF7K4oSlr_cRh8up-qShp2RZKNVsg&bvm=bv.141320020,d.d24), Watching TV (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwirwqrJzO_QAhXXFsAKHeckAMgQFggtMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuknews%2Flaw-and-order%2F11659022%2FDriver-caught-watching-TV-at-the-wheel-of-his-car.html&usg=AFQjCNGf8f9Yqx1P-JEEqhYoiSxDsLIsaA&bvm=bv.141320020,d.d24) (possibly whilst having a cuppa (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/caught-camera-woman-watches-masterchef-6063639)) and having nookie. (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiqnrDYzO_QAhXiC8AKHeJIA0U4ChAWCCAwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fweird-news%2Fwatch-moment-shocked-motorist-captures-7360829&usg=AFQjCNEz7DTziTDYjbcYUx3LACL-0u807Q&bvm=bv.141320020,d.d24)

It seems very few people actually drive whilst behind the wheel these days.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: mananddog on 07:44:05, 13/12/16
The number of prosecutions for texting and using a phone while driving has fallen because the police have decided not to prosecute people doing so. People will not stop unless they think they will be caught and brought to account. If they think they can get away with it they will keep on doing it.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: tonyk on 07:45:02, 13/12/16
If police stopped wasting time searching through Twitter and Facebook for so-called hate crimes we might get somewhere.They argue that these so-called crimes cause alarm and distress but it could be argued that having someone driving towards you at 50mph on a phone also causes alarm and distress,in fact,a lot of alarm and distress.When we get a proper police force that isn't run by politcally correct idiots we might get somewhere.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Woody on 09:10:30, 13/12/16
If police stopped wasting time searching through Twitter and Facebook for so-called hate crimes we might get somewhere.They argue that these so-called crimes cause alarm and distress but it could be argued that having someone driving towards you at 50mph on a phone also causes alarm and distress,in fact,a lot of alarm and distress.When we get a proper police force that isn't run by politcally correct idiots we might get somewhere.
Agreed however, its somewhere in the region of 40% of all calls to the police are social media "harassment" related. Under NCRS the police have to record and therefore investigate them all, knowing that the vast vast majority of the jobs are utter rubbish.
Traffic matters are mainly categorised as non crime and therefore fall to the bottom of the pile of an ever growing workload because these aren't a KPI for the force.
Traffic departments or roads policing units as they are called, have been seen as the ginger step child for as long as ive been in the police and are continually paired back and / or their work parameters changed, moving them away from actually policing the roads.
I'm no longer on a traffic department but good friends are. They work with just one traffic officer per shift covering a district that used to be 2 separate divisions each of which were covered by 3 traffic officers. So from 6 down to 1. The workload hasn't changed therefore, there is little or no time for pro active policing, to the point where you have to ignore offences you see because the job you are on your way to has a response time which you have to make.
As a traffic officer, all I wanted to do was make the roads in my area safer. All my bosses wanted was for response times to be met.
In relation to the sentencing of drivers involved in fatal collisions, the maximum currently stands at 14 years for death by dangerous driving and death by due care whilst unfit through drink or drugs. These maximums are rarely used.
You can have the maximum sentence increased to whatever you want but if the government guidelines tie the hands of the courts, sentences will not increase.
As for throwing away the key............ there are many serious and fatal collisions which are the result of very minor errors of judgement which have catastrophic results. Hundreds of drivers every day misjudge the speed of vehicles approaching their junction, they pull out and cause the approaching vehicle to swerve or brake hard to avoid a collision. Some result in a collision where only damage is caused to both vehicles. These rarely come to the attention of the police. Every now and again, the chain reaction from this minor error of judgement results in a death. There clearly needs to be a punishment, but throwing away the key? Not all fatal collisions are the result of intentional idiotic driving.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:46:11, 13/12/16
Hate crimes can be just as bad, if not tackled they will undermine the good things in our society. My personal experience is that since  Brexit many people that I am in contact with have become much bolder, even the N word is on the menu again. For my part I do not want to go back to the times when my hard working Romany family and Irish people were told to "get out of my pub" or refused entry to places because we were judged by some to be different. Hate people exist everywhere, its a fact of life but when I can I will engage them in discussion.

I think there is another very bad car problem to worry about. My wife has a fairly new car and loaded with gadgetry on it, most of which she knows she does not need or want, but its there. I'm sure if drivers fiddle with these control whilst driving (they do because I've seen them at it) this is also just as dangerous as using a mobile phone. I think the car manufacturers should be prosecuted as well for knowingly selling us dangerous cars.

Mind you I think in many areas and cities like mine (Portsmouth) I think the car is the evil monster as well (but still so necessary for day to day life) and it too should be put under further controls, e.g make the things smaller for a start! In our city 4x4 cars are a damn nuisance, our streets are not designed for such overblown lumps of metal! Sorry I should be writing this on the Small Rant thread.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Mumf on 11:00:54, 22/12/16
Whilst I hole heartedly agree with longer sentences for dangerous driving there seems to be a group of people to which the law in such cases acts more leniently . I am referring to those who are shall we say are in the twilight of their driving careers .
Many in this group are not aware that their driving ability / standards have dropped ( as a result of limited use and experience) to a point that in many cases is now seriously impaired or even dangerous .
As we all get older and live longer , many of us don't like to admit that we are not as adept and alert as we used to be . Last night I watched an old guy (80) being almost lifted into the driving seat by his ageing wife . Given the choice between being driven home by him , or an experienced driver on or slightly over the drink drive limit then I would without a moments hesitation choose the latter .
The amount of times I've seen older people oblivious to other road users get away with serious motoring offences is too numerous to mention .
I would like to add , that as an ex policeman myself and someone who is over 50 myself , I would never condone drink driving but similarly I would never condone the lack ability and merits of allowing some elderly motorists on the road who are clearly not up to the standard required .
Thursday's is market day where I live . We like to call it "warfarin awareness day " due to the number of minor shunts and collisions caused by such people but the law seems to casually avoid more stricter punishments for this age group . I was taught to believe that we were all equal in terms of the law .
In reality , in my experience that does not seem to be the case .
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: DevonDave on 11:25:00, 22/12/16
Whilst I hole heartedly agree with longer sentences for dangerous driving there seems to be a group of people to which the law in such cases acts more leniently . I am referring to those who are shall we say are in the twilight of their driving careers .
Many in this group are not aware that their driving ability / standards have dropped ( as a result of limited use and experience) to a point that in many cases is now seriously impaired or even dangerous .
As we all get older and live longer , many of us don't like to admit that we are not as adept and alert as we used to be . Last night I watched an old guy (80) being almost lifted into the driving seat by his ageing wife . Given the choice between being driven home by him , or an experienced driver on or slightly over the drink drive limit then I would without a moments hesitation choose the latter .
The amount of times I've seen older people oblivious to other road users get away with serious motoring offences is too numerous to mention .
I would like to add , that as an ex policeman myself and someone who is over 50 myself , I would never condone drink driving but similarly I would never condone the lack ability and merits of allowing some elderly motorists on the road who are clearly not up to the standard required .
Thursday's is market day where I live . We like to call it "warfarin awareness day " due to the number of minor shunts and collisions caused by such people but the law seems to casually avoid more stricter punishments for this age group . I was taught to believe that we were all equal in terms of the law .
In reality , in my experience that does not seem to be the case .
Whilst I fully agree that there are some older drivers who should not be on the road, the statistics show that it is younger inexperienced drivers who are involved in most accidents.  Most accidents which are caused by older drivers are minor, due to lack of concentration.  However, accidents caused by young people (particularly young males) tend to be more serious as they are more likely to be caused by inappropriate speed and lack of awareness.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Penygadair on 15:44:41, 22/12/16
I don't really think that it depends on the age of the driver but more on their mental alertness. I know of a lady of 60 who I simply would not get into a car with, yet another lady of 90 I would be happy to be driven by anywhere and in any traffic conditions.



Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: tonyk on 19:46:06, 22/12/16
 There are pros and cons when it comes to older drivers.

 Pros:

 1.They rarely have big egos or a massive chip on their shoulder.

 2.They don't know who Lewis Hamilton is.

 3.They are more likely to have more respect for the speed limit.

 4.They are unlikely to be showing off to a girlfriend/boyfriend.

 5.They are unlikely to have ICE in their car.

 6.They are unlikely to use a mobile phone when they are driving.

 6.They are unlikely to be driving a car that has had thousands spent on increasing BHP and forgotten about the brakes and suspension due to running out of funds.

 7.Their vehicle is likely to have all the correct documentation in place.

 Cons:

 1.People over 65 often develop age related cateracts.Its still legal,without informing the DVLA, to drive with cateracts in one eye but it plays hell with vision at night.I had this problem in my late fifties and gave up driving until the eye was sorted out.Its just not worth the risk.

 2.Reactions do diminish,especially in people with health problems and those over 75.

 3.Wanting to remain "independant" can reach absurd heights and leave people in denial.I had to deal with this problem with my father and eventually threatened to sell his car if he didn't give up driving.He was 88 at the time,had good reactions for his age,but his eyesight just wasn't up to safe driving despite still being within the limit.Eye tests don't take account of how your eyes are affected by sunlight and car headlamps.

 4.Some older drivers do get confused when they are taken out of their immediate environment.Where the younger driver will see it as a challenge the older driver sees it as something to be feared.

 Being driven home by a young lad on mobile who is trying impress me with his driving "skills" or an old driver who can't see at cyclist from 50 meters away? My choice would be the bus.
 

 
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: alewife on 19:51:58, 22/12/16
I do know an elderly gent (in Snowdonia actually) who has serious issues with his eyesight, but the gp, who is almost as old, just signs to say he's fit to drive. Hopefully, he knows the area and the roads are quiet enough that he won't kill anyone else if he has an accident. His grandson despairs but what can he do? I recognise that youngsters statistically are a problem and often kill others when they kill themselves (we had a young lad die on the road very close to our house recently, very sad) but certainly many of the elderly should be medically prohibited from driving:I think a proper medical check by an independent doctor would help, or even a retest.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: MikeW on 20:44:16, 22/12/16
The elderly drivers who negotiate the 60mph country lanes at 25mph, dithering and pottering in the middle of the road then speed up to 40 when they reach the wider, better lit and marked roads of the towns and villages where the speed limit is 30 are amongst those who concern me the most on the roads.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: Mumf on 21:27:49, 22/12/16
There are pros and cons when it comes to older drivers.

 Pros:

 1.They rarely have big egos or a massive chip on their shoulder.

 2.They don't know who Lewis Hamilton is.

 3.They are more likely to have more respect for the speed limit.

 4.They are unlikely to be showing off to a girlfriend/boyfriend.

 5.They are unlikely to have ICE in their car.

 6.They are unlikely to use a mobile phone when they are driving.

 6.They are unlikely to be driving a car that has had thousands spent on increasing BHP and forgotten about the brakes and suspension due to running out of funds.

 7.Their vehicle is likely to have all the correct documentation in place.

 Cons:

 1.People over 65 often develop age related cateracts.Its still legal,without informing the DVLA, to drive with cateracts in one eye but it plays hell with vision at night.I had this problem in my late fifties and gave up driving until the eye was sorted out.Its just not worth the risk.

 2.Reactions do diminish,especially in people with health problems and those over 75.

 3.Wanting to remain "independant" can reach absurd heights and leave people in denial.I had to deal with this problem with my father and eventually threatened to sell his car if he didn't give up driving.He was 88 at the time,had good reactions for his age,but his eyesight just wasn't up to safe driving despite still being within the limit.Eye tests don't take account of how your eyes are affected by sunlight and car headlamps.

 4.Some older drivers do get confused when they are taken out of their immediate environment.Where the younger driver will see it as a challenge the older driver sees it as something to be feared.

 Being driven home by a young lad on mobile who is trying impress me with his driving "skills" or an old driver who can't see at cyclist from 50 meters away? My choice would be the bus.








Excellent post . , !


The other important point to mention is that when stats are quoted in relation to the incidence of accidents for particular age groups , many seem to forget that drivers over let's say 65 drive far fewer miles than those under 30 . If they did , then you would get a far truer picture of risk assessment and safety .
How many 80 year olds commute to Manchester or Liverpool every day on motorways at 70 mph and then park in a multi storey car park ? How many would want to  :-\ :-\ I hear you cry ....
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: PeakRambler on 10:23:56, 24/12/16
I'm probably the worst, or possibly one of the best to respond to this thread, having being victim to a speeding driver, who not only sped, but failed to stop at a red light and went on not even stopping or reporting the accident.

I'm still trying to walk after almost two years, and still enduring pain and a constantly swollen lower right leg and ankle.

Its hard to comprehend the full implications careless driving can invoke, not just on the victim, their family, work, friends and much much more.

I've been laid up two years, that is two years where my wife has been my carer, my son has been my taxi driver, my work, for I'm still on long term sick, my friends who I can't socialise or walk with, and more.

So whos affected?
1 Wife
2 Son
3 Work (a team of fifty plus colleagues and immediate management)
4 Friends (unquantifiable number)

That in my book, says a minimum of EIGHT YEARS affected, using statistics.

OK, I may be OTT and will accept constructive arguments against that figure, but its something to think about.

The driver who did this to me, only had a six month ban!

I have my thoughts, and I guess many of you will calculate close to what I think the driver should have had, as a driving ban, not imprisonment.


Why not imprisonment?


No, I'm not going soft, but would imprisonment really help my case, and society?

I doubt it, the driver could be released worse than when they went in, costing society more in the long term.

A minimum of two years ban would be a good start for me, possibly upto eight years ban..... But then, would that driver drive illegally?

However, if a life is taken, then I'm afraid a life need to be repaid by life imprisonment.

I apologise if I seem out of turn, but I'm sure many of you will appreciate where I'm coming from.
Title: Re: Dangerous Drivers who Kill MAY receive a life sentence ?
Post by: DevonDave on 10:54:26, 24/12/16
A sad day in Plymouth today.  An accident occurred in the City Centre at about 7 o'clock this morning, resulting in an 18 year old girl being left in a critical condition with life changing injuries.  The driver of the car was found to be over the drink-drive limit.  I hope they throw the book at him.