Author Topic: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket  (Read 7260 times)

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #45 on: 16:28:26, 09/08/19 »

The reason, Ventile cotton remains very breathable even when totally saturated in water, is that our sweat molecules are allowed to pass through the very tight weave of the cotton, but water molecules being larger, are restricted.

This is more evident when you have two layers of the cotton working together, the outer layer gets saturated in water, the cotton weave swells up, blocking most of the moisture, then the second inner layer, works as a further waterproofing membrane.

Just about every modern manmade waterproof fabric, becomes almost useless in keeping the wearer dry when soaking wet, Ventile Cotton works in a totally different way to possibly everything sold for the outdoors market, and being seen as very old technology, gets little or no publicity, resulting in virtually nobody knowing of its existence.


You have to be serious about spending possibly close on £400 on a jacket using very old, and in some peoples opinions, totally outdated technology.


Most walkers spending that amount of money, would go for one of the latest high tec modern fabrics, from the top names, and only those needing such clothing for their work would consider Ventile as their chosen material.

Ventile cotton, like all cottons, becomes very heavy when soaking wet, but because of its very fine weave and high quality manufacture, the outside moisture on the cotton does not effect its breathability.


I know that sounds crazy for someone used to a modern waterproof fabric such as GoreTex or similar competitor.

This was the main reason it was developed specifically for airmen during the war, who always risked having to bale out in open water which was usually very cold.

Its the double Layered Ventile that's the most effective at keeping the elements at bay,

Single layered garments are far less effective in heavy rain, allowing moisture through in very heavy rain.


Ventile has been around for such a long time, that it stands to reason most walkers have never heard about it or used it, as its hardly the most fashionable, to be seen in clothing, and with it being compareable in price with the very best clothing on offer, the majority would rather buy the very latest top end jacket, knowing they have a jacket with a proven track record.


Spending large amounts on money, on clothing few people have knowledge or experience in using, does not make sense.


It only makes sense if you know how good the cotton is in everyday use, and have the available cash to take the risk.
« Last Edit: 16:50:21, 09/08/19 by Dyffryn Ardudwy »

ninthace

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #46 on: 17:13:11, 09/08/19 »
Modern Ventile, like many modern fabrics, appears to be treated with a hydrophobic chemical to make it water repellant.   If that is the case, the close weave element only comes into play when the coating is overwhelmed or wears off.  At this point it is suggested that the fibres become saturated and swell up to prevent the passage of water through the weave.  For this to happen the fibres, unlike modern fibres, must be hydophilic so that the fabric can actively become saturated.
Now in my camping days, we had flysheets that used to get saturated when it rained and the secret was to not let the outer touch the inner or the water came through.  If the outer layer of Ventile is saturated with water, surely the next layer, which is in contact with the outer will also become saturated in time. Since the second layer is also hydrophilic. At which point your base layer is now in contact with damp cloth.  It seems to me that double Ventile should work to slow the passage of water through the cloth but ultimately it will wet out unless you can maintain a sufficient temperature inside to keep drying out the inner layer.  I believe this was referred to in the production of WW2 immersion suits - they kept the wearer drier for longer, rather than dry, to give them time to be rescued or get in their dinghies.
Then there is the weight issue.  For the fabric to work it must be wet, that must come with a weight penalty.
Also, if the cotton is hydophilic, surely it will dry far more slowly than a hydrophobic fabric?
« Last Edit: 18:03:33, 09/08/19 by ninthace »
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jimbob

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #47 on: 17:20:52, 09/08/19 »
Dead horses and flogging come to mind.  ::)

Too little, too late, too bad......

Mel

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #48 on: 17:32:05, 09/08/19 »
I thought I'd clicked on the "let's repeat myself sixteen times" topic  :D


Has the OP's question been answered yet?  :-\

If it hasn't, here's my 2p's worth.... There's no such thing as a waterproof and breathable jacket.  If it's waterproof, it's not breathable and if it's breathable, it's not waterproof.  If you "walk hot" then no jacket is going to be pleasant to wear whether it's raining or not.


There.  Said it.  Bring on the stonings, rotten eggs and tomatoes  ::)




pdstsp

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #49 on: 17:38:44, 09/08/19 »
I believe with modern fabrics, stones can pass through form the inside of the jacket to the outside, while the Ventile's manufacture technique means that rotten eggs and tomatoes will "bead" on the outside of the jacket.

wombat

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #50 on: 17:39:13, 09/08/19 »
any topic involving Rob or DA seems to go round in circles :-\

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #51 on: 17:39:45, 09/08/19 »
I believe with modern fabrics, stones can pass through form the inside of the jacket to the outside, while the Ventile's manufacture technique means that rotten eggs and tomatoes will "bead" on the outside of the jacket.
;D ;D ;D
You beat me to it by a few seconds.

Mel

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #52 on: 17:44:26, 09/08/19 »

Having missen a little chuckle  :D   O0 

wobblyknees

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #53 on: 18:08:35, 09/08/19 »

Has the OP's question been answered yet?  :-\

If it hasn't, here's my 2p's worth.... There's no such thing as a waterproof and breathable jacket.  If it's waterproof, it's not breathable and if it's breathable, it's not waterproof.  If you "walk hot" then no jacket is going to be pleasant to wear whether it's raining or not.

I totally agree.
I'm a big fan of Event which I find far more breathable than Goretex. But of all the jackets I've worn I find Rohans Mountain Guide (name has changed since I bought it - Mountain Leader I think last time I looked) suits me best for hillwalking. Its not 100% waterproof but I find Rohans Barricade waterproof system offers me the best balance between breathability and waterproofness. I walk very hot.


Many years ago I bought a Country Innovations Ventile jacket on advice from a birding forum. I think it is double layered. It was expensive and is uncomfortably heavy. I could not hillwalk in it. I regard it as my worst ever outdoor gear purchase. I still use it occasionally for birdwatching.

ninthace

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #54 on: 18:23:55, 09/08/19 »
Many years ago I bought a Country Innovations Ventile jacket on advice from a birding forum. I think it is double layered. It was expensive and is uncomfortably heavy. I could not hillwalk in it. I regard it as my worst ever outdoor gear purchase. I still use it occasionally for birdwatching.
  To wear or sit on?
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jimbob

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #55 on: 18:47:19, 09/08/19 »
  To wear or sit on?
Not good for the hemorrhoids,  sitting on it.
Too little, too late, too bad......

Rob Goes Walking

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #56 on: 19:17:45, 09/08/19 »
Thanks for the input guys. After reading it all perhaps I should have got Event but I went with archaeoroutes suggestion days ago and ordered the Mountain Equipment Zeno. It arrived today, put it and my Berghaus Stormcloud overtrousers on to take for a test drive in the rain outside but by the time I was ready it was sunny and hot. I discovered walking in the overtrousers in the heat isn't as bad as I thought which gives me hope they will be of use in the wet.

Not connected to jackets at all - does anyone know how to get the overtrousers off without getting dirt (and possibly worse) from your boots all over the inside? I've discovered you can put your foot in a carrier bag to put them on, but I couldn't work out how to use the carrier bag effectively to remove them.

ninthace

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #57 on: 19:31:39, 09/08/19 »
Both leg zips open from bottom to top as far as they will go, slide trousers down legs to floor or thereabouts, step out carefully. 
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Rob Goes Walking

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #58 on: 19:44:21, 09/08/19 »
Once again thanks ninthace. I'll give it a couple of practice runs with clean boots.

ninthace

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Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #59 on: 19:52:31, 09/08/19 »
To put on - unpack, leg zips fully open, identify back and front, bunch up one leg to make to big hole leaving leg bit flapping, step through carefully (point toes), leave waist band low, repeat for other leg, pull trousers up, zip up legs, fasten poppers.
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