Author Topic: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere  (Read 18912 times)

April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #195 on: 20:18:58, 18/01/18 »
https://twitter.com/ZipOffThirlmere/status/954071356290879494

The MOD are objecting to the Zip Wires  O0  O0  O0

Ridge, I think I read that the LDNPA will make some sort of response on the 24th Jan and say when they will be deciding the planning app, on 7th Feb or 7th Mar (if I remember it correctly)

Edited to add
Also @ Ridge you might like this open letter that is on Zip Off

"An open message to United Utilities:

United Utilities: We stand opposed!

The opposition to the Treetop Trek proposal to string zip wires across the birthplace of the modern environmentalist movement has united an incredibly diverse range of highly respected organisations and individuals. Today we are able to share with you the news that the M.O.D. objects to the zip wire proposal.

We want you to listen to us. Thousands of people have spent their time explaining to you why they object to this proposal.

United Utilities, you claim to be 'custodians' of Thirlmere and its catchment area.Today we tell you, United Utilities, and your CEO Steve Mogford, to prove it!"
« Last Edit: 23:00:04, 18/01/18 by April »
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #196 on: 08:14:05, 19/01/18 »
I've been waiting for the MOD's objection.   It's obvious to anyone who's been to Thirlmere that the MOD use it for low level flying training.   Would love to hear Mr Turner's response to their objection.

Love this spoofed photo of Boris that Zip Off posted on their Twitter feed:


Ridge

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #197 on: 08:26:37, 19/01/18 »
If he's going to be hung on it permanently I am now in favour of the zip wire.
The world would be a much better place with fewer racist sexist blonde baffoons. If they would put the other one underneath it I am happy for them to fill Thirlmere with concrete.
Over hill, over dale. Thorough brush, thorough brier....
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Skip

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #198 on: 08:50:15, 19/01/18 »
https://twitter.com/ZipOffThirlmere/status/954071356290879494

The MOD are objecting to the Zip Wires  O0 O0 O0


Here is the text of their letter of objection:

Thank you for consulting the Ministry of Defence (MOD) on the above proposed development which was received by this office on 29/11/2017.

The applicant is seeking permission for a development of a zipwire attraction, a series of improvements to the round Thirlmere cycleway, improvements to car parks, access paths and the extension and development of an existing toilet block to provide reception, changing area and toilet facility.

The proposal falls within Low Flying Area 17 in particular a valley where a high volume of low level military aircraft including fast jets can be expected due to low flying military training conducted in this locality.

The proposed cable in this location poses a risk to low flying operations due to military aircraft not being able to readily identify wires or safely navigate away from them.

Competent and confident flying at low level is an essential skill for our aircrew; valley flying is one of the most demanding elements. The Lake District is used by both experienced crews and students undertaking Basic Fast Jet Training, Advanced Flying Training and those from the Defence Helicopter School; activity stands to be severely affected, with impacts recognised in safety, cost, efficiency and output.

Therefore, this application could cause a significant hazard and it would significantly impact upon vital military training conducted in this area.

The MOD therefore objects to this application.
Skip

April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #199 on: 08:54:03, 19/01/18 »
Would love to hear Mr Turner's response to their objection.

I am sure he will find something utterly ridiculous to say
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

pdstsp

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #200 on: 10:03:05, 19/01/18 »
Perhaps he will refer to the adrenaline rush of being buzzed by a jet while crossing Thirlmere on a wire - extra £20 taken from your credit card when this happens.


Just signed up for the rally on 27th, and hoping, weather and roads permitting, to be spending the day up there tomorrow in the snow.

Peter

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #201 on: 10:08:44, 19/01/18 »
Shame that the article and programme weren't about before the deadline for objections.


I wonder how long the planning process will actually take, we objected to something near our house in the summer and though the deadline for objections was early August and it was supposed to go to the planning department before October they still haven't decided.


We often to fail to understand the planning system, especially when we choose to object to something.
The law doesn't give the planners a lot of leeway to simply listen to objections, no matter how many feel your new extension (or zip wire) will 'spoil the view'. There must be concrete objections based  on planning law.
e.g. The application goes against the  stated planning policy for this area because....
or, the existing facilities are already under used and a further helipad would not be helpful.


This is why serious objections need to be put together by planning experts.
The planners already have to consider whether the appearance of something falls within the rules or not.
If there are 1,000's of objections on the basis of 'spoil the view' they will not make any difference.

Peter
sometimes I fall off the learning curve....
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Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #202 on: 11:18:22, 19/01/18 »

The planners already have to consider whether the appearance of something falls within the rules or not.
If there are 1,000's of objections on the basis of 'spoil the view' they will not make any difference.

The Friends of the Lake District, The Campaign for National Parks, the John Muir Trust, and most of the other environmental bodies have all quoted the relevant Planning Policies that the applications conflicts with.    As far as I can see, the only 'bodies' that support the application are commercial ones.


http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298

Peter

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #203 on: 13:23:23, 19/01/18 »
The Friends of the Lake District, The Campaign for National Parks, the John Muir Trust, and most of the other environmental bodies have all quoted the relevant Planning Policies that the applications conflicts with.    As far as I can see, the only 'bodies' that support the application are commercial ones.


http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298


Cheers, very helpful.
Looks like bats may save the day again. :)

Peter
sometimes I fall off the learning curve....
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April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #204 on: 13:29:07, 19/01/18 »
We often to fail to understand the planning system, especially when we choose to object to something.

Do we? I'm not sure who you mean when you say "we"?

If there are 1,000's of objections on the basis of 'spoil the view' they will not make any difference.

Are there 1,000's of objections on the basis of "spoil the view"? Have you been to the LDNPA offices to read them all? If you haven't then you are making a huge assumption.

In my letter of objection I never referred to "the view" once.
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #205 on: 13:43:47, 19/01/18 »
I can't recall mentioning the view at all in my letter of objection.

I did mention that it conflicted with the purpose of the Lake District National Park and that it would set a precedent for other similar applications to follow suit.   Also that it could affect the Unesco World Heritage status that the Park had worked so hard to achieve.





Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #206 on: 13:46:37, 19/01/18 »
Simon Noble's Zip Off Campaign, which I did sign, states the following:

Please do not grant permission for Zip Wires across Thirlmere.
The landscape of Thirlmere, especially around the western side, will be negatively affected by the noise and visual impact of clients flying across the lake. Additionally, creating a launch area near the summit of Fisher Crag will mean regular traffic between the road and the crag. All of this will spoil  the peacefulness and landscape currently enjoyed by locals and visitors alike.
Why is this important?The western side of Thirlmere has a strong sense of tranquillity and evokes a sense of calm. Views from the water’s edge are outstanding. The Park Authority recognises these features and the need to retain them.The developers say their proposal is consistent with planning policy. It isn’t.Core Strategy 1 of the LDNPA says, “We will only support development proposals which conserve and enhance the special qualities of the LDNP”There is nothing to indicate that locals or tourists want or need more Zip Wires.There is nothing to indicate we need “to target the under 35s” as the developers claim.


So none of the 13,000 people who have so far signed the petition, have mentioned the view either.






Ridge

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #207 on: 14:41:45, 19/01/18 »

[size=0px]There must be concrete objections based  on planning law.[/size]
e.g. The application goes against the  stated planning policy for this area because....

The planners already have to consider whether the appearance of something falls within the rules or not.
These 2 statements appear somewhat contradictory. Planners consider proposals and their compliance or otherwise with planning policy whether or not anyone objects.

In my letter I deliberately mixed the personal with the more objective. Some poor person does have to read them all.
I talked about how this particular area is important to me and my kids and their introduction to enjoying the countryside but also how I felt that the zip wire was incomparable with the stated aims of the National Park and also its designation as a World Heritage Site.


These will be very similar objections to many other peoples and one person pointing them out should be enough even if the planners don't already know the policy themselves.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, there is possibly a difference between one note to the planners from April on the back of an old OS map cover and 1000s of people taking the time to write and object.
Over hill, over dale. Thorough brush, thorough brier....
I do wander every where

Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #208 on: 15:16:40, 19/01/18 »
Here's Mr Turner's response to the MOD's decision to object to the zip wire.

   The company released a statement expressing their surprise at the MoD’s decision:"We have been in consultation with the MoD since June 2017 and are in receipt of their written confirmation that they would not be objecting to the Thirlmere project.<blockquote>“We are therefore very surprised by this apparent change in stance and are currently seeking their further clarification."
 </blockquote>


       

bricam2096

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #209 on: 15:29:25, 19/01/18 »
Here's Mr Turner's response to the MOD's decision to object to the zip wire.

   The company released a statement expressing their surprise at the MoD’s decision:"We have been in consultation with the MoD since June 2017 and are in receipt of their written confirmation that they would not be objecting to the Thirlmere project.<blockquote>“We are therefore very surprised by this apparent change in stance and are currently seeking their further clarification."
 </blockquote>


     

Either that's b0ll0cks from them or the MoD have underestimated the public response and did a U turn  O0
LDWs done - 26 in total including 12 National Trails and 3 C2C

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