Author Topic: map ownership  (Read 6053 times)

ninthace

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #30 on: 19:17:56, 23/09/18 »

You can get compasses that are adjusted for the local declination. A friend had a similar problem using his Silva compass brought in the UK on a trip to New Zealand.
Surely, the old way of navigating on sea ice was sextant and chronometer? I think GPS is way ahead of that.


Glad you warned me about that - I'm due to do the Tongariro Crossing sometime in February plus a few other trips round Taranaki, Taupo and the Bay of Islands.  Perhaps i will just have to fall back on my gps  :) , or in the case of the Crossing, just follow the hordes. Sorry - thread drift  :-[


Ah yes, sextant and chronometer.  Never even learned that at Dartmouth, just Decca, Loran and dead reckoning once we were out of sight of land.  I believe the navigator understood these things but it was beyond a mere 2nd Officer of the Watch.
« Last Edit: 19:26:38, 23/09/18 by ninthace »
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ninthace

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #31 on: 19:20:34, 23/09/18 »
DA Do you have anything to say about the subject of the ownership of electronic data?
The subject matter of this thread is not ancient paper maps,  compasses or the hoard of junk you have either in your cottage or in your imagination. ( Junk defined as stuff you have no use for but hang onto anyway )


Perhaps he is practicing his trigonometry.  Very useful is trig for fixing your position on a map.  Mind you, it is more about angles and vectors than tangents  ;)
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Mel

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #32 on: 19:39:55, 23/09/18 »

Some years ago, his relative who lives in Deganwy outside llandudno,


Was his relative called Llandudnoboy?  ;)


Edited: After contemplation I decided the comment I wrote here was unnecessarily mean - sorry DA  :-[




Back on topic....


I think the only way of accessing digitally "owned" mapping if the app used to access it became no more would be if you could find a way to un-encript whatever it is that makes the mapping only viewable via that app.  Ordnance Survey maps may be slightly different (the ones where you buy a paper map and get a free scratch n sniff digital download).  I think in that circumstance, you would still be able to view the map on your device of choice but wouldn't be able to use it with the device's GPS function.


Anyway, that's my further thoughts.


Back off topic now to the 100th edition of the paper map -v- GPS debate  :D


« Last Edit: 21:16:36, 23/09/18 by Mel »

jimbob

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #33 on: 19:41:01, 23/09/18 »

Perhaps he is practicing his trigonometry.  Very useful is trig for fixing your position on a map.  Mind you, it is more about angles and vectors than tangents  ;)
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
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Owen

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #34 on: 19:56:04, 23/09/18 »
I have an old version of Memory Map on my puter, I had regular updates for it up to about five years ago. Then OS said in their infinite wisdom that they would no longer be supporting it even though it was supposed to last a life time. It still work on my puter but if/when I come to replace it I'll only be able to download the original version off the CD's which won't have any of the updates on. Or I could pay for the latest version which will no doubt very quickly go out of date unless I pay again for their new supper-dupa version. 


Same with the GPS, I have the Garmin Montana 600 which works off the American GPS system. Just after I got it they brought out the 601 which will work off the Russian system as well as the American one. Soon the European system will be up and running (except we won't have access to it, thanks Brexiteers). I'm sure they keep changing things just to screw more money out of us.

sussamb

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #35 on: 20:44:18, 23/09/18 »
Same with the GPS, I have the Garmin Montana 600 which works off the American GPS system. Just after I got it they brought out the 601 which will work off the Russian system as well as the American one.

Yep, my Montana does that (uses GPS and GLONASS) but I see no discernible difference in accuracy over my Etrex 20 (which is just GPS) so don't lose sleep over it (as if you would)  ;)
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SimoinEaston

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #36 on: 08:33:40, 19/10/18 »
As a more-or-less relevant aside, I've recently started to learn about data privacy at work, so that we can advise schools about GDPR, and mostly, it's all very boring and very detailed, but I did find out something that made me laugh... A lot of us use DropBox - that's where my back-ups of all my SatMap maps are... Guess where their servers are - at least for those of us who use the free version..  That's right - Russia!!

SimoinEaston

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #37 on: 10:18:25, 20/10/18 »
To answer the original Q., tho', I think it's an excellent example of that good old IT answer, "...it depends."!  If you're talking about digital OS maps, my understanding is that various businesses buy licence rights from OS, which gives them the right to sell on digital copies of the original mapping. In the case of Satmap, the waters are muddied when they chose to sell the maps on industry-standard SD memory cards, fitted with propriatery file protection, which means that although the buyer has paid for the right to use the digital map of the chosen area, he / she would be hard put to do so, if they attempted to use the map files on anything other than Satmap hardware. Additonally, if the buyer breaks or looses the SD card, they would have to buy it again a second (or third, fourth etc.!) time in order to get back where they started, even tho' the purchase of the first SD card licenced them to use the map indefinitely... (I've read of cases where Satmap have agreed to replace SD cards when the owner has provided evidence of having a backup copy, although I've also heard of cases when they haven't replaced the card...) In short, it depends!!

jimbob

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #38 on: 16:07:25, 20/10/18 »
You miss the point SimoinEaston.

If I damage a disc or a paper map then I know those goods need to be replaced. My problem in this situation is nothing to do with the seller except in guarantee breach situations.

If I purchase a digital item based in a cloud server then it should in theory never get damaged.  If the server ceases to exist how do I access my "property" held for me and paid for by me.
In short my belief is that I only rent said property whilst the seller remains in legal existence and that it is false advertising to claim that I have bought it.
More reason to buy software that is held on disc or card I think.

« Last Edit: 16:25:52, 20/10/18 by jimbob »
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ninthace

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #39 on: 17:10:43, 20/10/18 »
You miss the point SimoinEaston.

If I damage a disc or a paper map then I know those goods need to be replaced. My problem in this situation is nothing to do with the seller except in guarantee breach situations.

If I purchase a digital item based in a cloud server then it should in theory never get damaged.  If the server ceases to exist how do I access my "property" held for me and paid for by me.
In short my belief is that I only rent said property whilst the seller remains in legal existence and that it is false advertising to claim that I have bought it.
More reason to buy software that is held on disc or card I think.
Not a thing that would worry me in the normal course of events  Jimbob.  Data held in the cloud will be present on more than one server so that if one goes down there is always a back up - and probably a back up to that as well.  The time to be concerned is if the cloud service provider ceases operating or has a major SNAFU.  Then you would need to migrate your data to another provider.  I keep my data on both OneDrive and ICloud and always save up to both so they are mirror images.  That way if one ever went pop which, given who is providing the service is unlikely, - I have a spare.
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jimbob

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #40 on: 21:00:05, 20/10/18 »
Not a thing that would worry me in the normal course of events  Jimbob.  Data held in the cloud will be present on more than one server so that if one goes down there is always a back up - and probably a back up to that as well.  The time to be concerned is if the cloud service provider ceases operating or has a major SNAFU.  Then you would need to migrate your data to another provider.  I keep my data on both OneDrive and ICloud and always save up to both so they are mirror images.  That way if one ever went pop which, given who is providing the service is unlikely, - I have a spare.
However if you have to download to a permitted device as with VR and a couple of others then you have a problem if the company goes SNAFU as you put it. Once they can no longer fund their server the data  is eventually lost. If your device breaks the download licensed to that device has gone. You are left with nowt.
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sussamb

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #41 on: 21:10:00, 20/10/18 »
Well even if VR went bust the app and maps are on all my devices. The issue would come only when I replaced them ...
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ninthace

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #42 on: 21:45:50, 20/10/18 »
So the problem comes down to having all your eggs in say, the ViewRanger/Satmap basket? You only have maps and routes on a single device and the data is not backed up so if VR ceases and your device breaks down subsequently, you are up the creek without the proverbial means of propulsion? Do I have it correct?


I have no experience of Satmap but assume it works a bit like Garmin in stopping its maps being used on other devices.  I do use VR.
You could export your routes from your device to a cloud file of your choice so that takes care of that issue. I do it routinely and keep all my traces in the cloud so they can be imported into any app that can read gpx files (Basecamp, OS mapping, GoogleEarth etc)  VR uses open source maps - these can be sourced elsewhere.  VR also has premium mapping that you pay for. Similarly I believe  Satmap protects its maps on the chip - is this the concern?  If the premium mapping is OS you could subscribe to the OS app - that would give you UK wide mapping but it will cost you 19.99 a year for the privilege so you will be out of pocket. You can bulk import all your tracks from the cloud into the OS map app (I have done it). Then you are back and running. The OS map is not device specific as far as I know so it should run on a new phone provided you have the login and password.  As with VR you can download OS maps for offline use with the app so you do not need a signal for it to work.
Would that solve your issue or have I misunderstood it?


As an aside, I have found you can run VR and the OS map on the same phone at the same time so if one app drops you have the other, provided the gps stays functional of course.
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jimbob

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #43 on: 00:16:31, 21/10/18 »
Yep I knew all that. I have decided that if I were  to buy os tiles (as well as good french & spanish ones ) then I am at risk through no fault caused by me to no longer having "possession" of those digital items.
Since my belief  is that I actually just rent those tiles, I have gone down the annual subscription route which means if any of the gps companies I was tempted to buy tiles from goes belly up I cease payment and go to someone else for my digital OS (etc) maps.
I don't have any problems with VR by the way. Just bothered that ownership of digital data is not quite what we would normally accept as true ownership.
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sussamb

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Re: map ownership
« Reply #44 on: 07:33:03, 21/10/18 »
VR can be installed on up to 4 devices so that's a way of backing up your maps. Many ways as posted of backing up routes etc. Garmin devices even if Garmin went bust would work for many years after so I think we're all safe for a long while yet  ;)
Where there's a will ...

 

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