Pennine Way wild camping and dog walking advice sought!

[damo]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your posts and the help they've contained so far, but now my departure date is drawing near and my packing list getting longer (and heavier), I'm starting to panic about the feasibility of my trip.

The plan is to walk south to north, in May, with my collie and to wild camp all the way. Apart from frequent weekends in the mountains, this is the first long distance trail I have done since completing the West Highland Way 15-years ago, so any more up to date thoughts would be appreciated.

I’m pretty happy with my kit and fitness, but my main worries are:

-Weight. What sort of pack weight have people carried/should I expect? I am currently training with 20kg which even on the flat is feeling pretty weighty.

-Related to the above is how frequently can I resupply? I notice the first few days look a bit fruitless as they do towards the end in the Cheviots. I also need places that will stock dog food as I don't want to be carrying all Clancy's grub from the start - his check up with the vet resulted in her estimating he might need double his usual daily ration! I’m planning on carrying four days’ rations at each top-up.

-Also related to pack weight is the amount of water I'm going to need to carry. I'm working on 4 litres with steri-tabbed stream water as my main refill source. Is this a safe bet?

-And finally, does anyone have any suggestions regarding camping? I'm assuming it's off limits in the National Parks so what about campsite options there and wild options elsewhere? Is there anywhere recommended or best avoided?

I'm planning on following the standard guide book itinerary of 19ish sections/days so if anyone has any thoughts/ suggestions/ ideas/ tips/ reassurances (!) I would be very grateful.

Thanks for all your help so far,

Damian

PS For a bit more background on my dog, Clancy, and the other purpose of our walk please take a look at www.justgiving.com/damianmcauley [nofollow]

[darksky]

Hi damo..,i cant help you with advice on LDW as i havent done any,sorry. But i am interested in what kit your taking,and to wish you good luck  ..,ps..look forward to reading your trip report when you get back.

[tonyk]

 Difficult one.Hamish Brown walked the full length of the PW with his Sheltie  when he did the End to End Walk in 1979(?) so it can be done.Pack weight could be a major problem.One way round it is to make use of one of the baggage handling services,they will take your pack from point to point for around a fiver a day.What you don't want to be doing is carrying 20kg,it will leave you knackered at the end of a 15 mile day in the hills and cause chaffing on the shoulders and probably blister your heals.I have found through trial and error that 12kg is the maximum that can be comfortably carried,anymore and it becomes a chore.You could try sending the dog food to post offices enroute.

 Shops that will stock dog food:

 Heden Bridge:42 miles.

 Gargrave:70 miles.

 Malham 77 miles (possibly).

 Horton 92 miles.

 Hawes 108 miles.

 Middlton 141 miles.

 Alston 182 miles.

 Bellingham 225 miles.

 Other than these places its going to be hard to find supplies.You could ask a farmer if he could sell you a couple of tins as every farmer has a dog.

 Water is another problem. Four litres sounds about right
but you may need far more if its a heatwave.I should imagine your dog will drink from streams so you only have to worry about your own water unless there is a heatwave and the streams dry up.Water is heavy and coupled with dog food will make for a very heavy pack,you are going to have to find someway of reducing weight or making use of a baggage service.

 Wild camping is possible,just select your pitches carefully,stay out of view and pitch late and start early.Provided you do that no one will really bother you.Some of the smaller campsites are okay,especially on weekdays.

 Nineteen days allows for a steady pace so if you can reduce your pack weight a bit you should be okay.

[damo]

Hi Tony,

Many thanks for your thorough reply and especially the list of shopping opportunities. Considering a standard 3kg bag of dog food will last Clancy five days (even at double his usual rate of consumption) this means I should never be left without.

However this still leaves me with a target pack weight of 15 kg and even if I am ruthless with my packing this might nudge above this.

I have been training with 15 kg which in my Osprey pack feels very manageable. But this is mainly on the flat, in good conditions and for no more than two hours at any time. Do you think this will be too much? Even though I didn't weigh it, I know my West Highland Way pack weighed considerably more than this, but I was 15 years younger then and 15 years more stupid!

Also what thoughts do you have on my own foods from a weight to nutrional value perspective. I'm thinking a basic diet of beans, noodles, tinned fish, cereal bars and raisins supplemented with fresh produce as and when I can get it (as well as two boil in the bag emergency ration meals, chocolate and boiled sweets).

[mike knipe]

Damo - My pack for the TGO and Pennine Way came in at between 13 and 15 kgs, depending on the amount of food. I dont carry much water - just about a litre. I do carry 50cl of scotch, though.  I tend to dip into good water when I can - and I never pass a tea van/tea room!
Its difficult to say whether dipping into wild water would be safe for you. It seems to be for me, and Ive never had a problem - but I think it depends on what you're used to , to some extent and I wouldnt drink just any water. If in doubt, tab it and/or boil it.
The shop at Malham isnt very good by the way, I'd be surprised if they have dog food. But there is a shop at Ickornshaw, though which would have dog food - and also, at Haworth and at Earby, which are a bit off route.
I wouldnt worry too much about food supplies - there's loads of retail opportunities on the PW, plus pubs, cafe's, vans etc - just make sure that you know where you can buy food and how many days you have to carry. This will cut your weight down significantly. You shouldnt need to carry more than three days food - and , most of the time, you'll only need to have one or two days.
I suspect, though that without much training,  you're going to suffer quite a bit for the first few days (!) - and so might the dog.
But its all in the mind y'know! - That is, its substantially down to determination and bloody-mindedness unless you or the dog sustain an actual injury or illness.

[forest view]

I hope the administrator of this site will turn a blind eye as advertising is not allowed but if you are using natural englands acommodation and camping guide it will tell you that there are no shops from Bellingham until the end,however there is a small shop with walker friendly supplies (chocolate, beans noodles pasta etc.) in what is now Forest View (formerly the old YHA byrness) You can use the shop and off licence even if you are not using our tent pitches.

[tonyk]

I have been training with 15 kg which in my Osprey pack feels very manageable. But this is mainly on the flat, in good conditions and for no more than two hours at any time. Do you think this will be too much? Even though I didn't weigh it, I know my West Highland Way pack weighed considerably more than this, but I was 15 years younger then and 15 years more stupid!

Also what thoughts do you have on my own foods from a weight to nutrional value perspective. I'm thinking a basic diet of beans, noodles, tinned fish, cereal bars and raisins supplemented with fresh produce as and when I can get it (as well as two boil in the bag emergency ration meals, chocolate and boiled sweets).

 Hi Damian,

  Provided you walk at a reasonably slow pace and have plenty of rests you should be okay.Also its worth considering walking poles as these will take the load off your knees and feet.Its best to have a break every hour and get the pack off your back.The other thing you have to take into consideration is the stone paths,these are a real killer on the feet,and the heavier your pack is the worse the pounding will be.It might be worth looking into some kind of padding for your dogs feet as these stones make up 120+ miles of the route.

 I usually carry a couple of days supply of food on this route,found it to be quite adequate, and there is usually somewhere you can get a bite to eat.As for nutrition,well we are all different.I tend to eat very little when doing these walks and function quite well,but others say they often eat three times as much as when they are at home! I think it depends on how well your body burns fat.

[darksky]

Tonyk mentioned padding for your dogs feet..,all i can think of is them doggy boots made specially for hard trekking, just a thought.

[damo]

Guys (and girls) your advice has been fantastic! Just knowing there are and where there are shops puts my mind right at ease.

If I can reduce my carried food supply to two days (plus a day's emergency) and stick with Clancy's five day supply, I'm sure that neither of us will go hungry and my pack might come in around the 15kg mark that I feel more than happy carrying.

Mike, your advice regarding water is definately savvy. I have a famously cast iron constitution (famous last words I know) but my father who is a food scientist always told me that if you consume anything you're unsure of, a double whisky is enough to kill any harmful bacteria that might be in your stomach, so good advice there too! This law has worked for me even in some of the most disreputable eateries around the world from Cumbria to Cambodia! Therefore, if I lose 1 or even 2kg of water for the sake of 0.1kg of single malt I'm winning all round!

Tony, my vet has given Clancy the all clear (and is a keen walker herself) and reckons his feet should have no bother especially as 75% of his home walks are on paving anyway. I have however put together a doggy first aid kit that includes a laceable booty in case of injury. This is only a temporary protective covering that will enable us to get off the Way without causing more damage or infection.

In my case, I do have a pair of walking poles that I've used for the last couple of years and find enormously helpful even when not carrying a load. With the pack I'm sure they will ease the weight carried by the knees. I hope they won't offset the excellent weight balance afforded by my Osprey pack though which apart from my training walks is untested on the mountains.

Any more input would be gratefully received.

Damo

[damo]

Darksky, see above as I posted the second you replied!

Apparently the boots are only good as a temporary protective covering after injury. I know they often fit earthquake sniffer and mountain rescue dogs with them, but they are only meant to protect while on particularly nasty terrain.

To be honest though, Clancy is a real sticker of a dog and hardly leaves my side (as a result of his previous life). He is also trained with livestock and has an excellent recall so I hope that most of the way he can be off the lead. If the slabs are too harsh for hime, he can therefore trot along in the soft stuff.

[darksky]

I never knew that about them doggy boots, i thought they were for walking in and not just after a small injury or somthing, well thats somthing new ive learnt today 

[damo]

Every day's a school day!

And here's another thing I need to learn, does anyone know about mobile phone signals along the Way. I have a wife who's expecting regular contact but I keep claiming remote wilderness. The maps suggest otherwise though (certainly for the first half). Any ideas about whether I'm in terra inreceptiona or will I still be able to receive my bedtime stories up on them moors?

[mike knipe]

 but my father who is a food scientist always told me that if you consume anything you're unsure of, a double whisky is enough to kill any harmful bacteria that might be in your stomach, so good advice there too!

Crikey! Really?  So my granny was right after all! I've got 50cl of the stuff in my pack - so that should be enough for about...er.....oooo...er.... half a pint of water!
At least.
Actually, I might not bother with the water....

PS Phone signal reliability in general terms seemed to be OK when I did the pW - lots of big main roads and hill tops.....

[damo]

Cheers Mike. I guess a quarter bottle's the way to go as that's mysteriously the capacity of my Sig bottle!

I see from your pic your a dog man yourself - no slander intended. Did he/she walk the Way with you?

[mike knipe]

I dont take the dog backpacking cos he eats too much!  Too much hassle generally...  I did see one or two blokes heading South on the PW with their dogs. One of the dogs waited quietly in a tent whilst the boss went for a pint. My dog would have destroyed the tent in those circumstances.
I do take him on static camping hols, though.