Author Topic: Help! West Highland Way Winter & ungraded walks (eg Ben Starav, Na Gruigaichean)  (Read 5331 times)

guy_osborn

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I (plus son and nephew) will be doing part of the WHW between Christmas and the New Year for 4 nights, camping out (as I see there are no bothies where I am going) and hoping to do a couple of ungraded winter walks. I am becoming more and more afraid of heights (2 people I knew were killed climbing 20 years ago (when I used to do some climbing), and my fear getting worse and worse....flying terrifies me now, so I've decided to try to tackle it!)...so I would like some very basic confidence-assisting kit for me (I've got basic kit - tent, clothes, GPS, self-inflating mat, crampons, walking axe, down jacket etc etc etc) - but I would like a rope for any aretes - over the top? and do chickens like me need nuts, carabiners etc etc.....,  - any advice, good sites gratefully received. Am I being over or under-confident?
« Last Edit: 13:20:16, 16/11/08 by guy_osborn »
Still very, very scared of heights. Even more now...

mike knipe

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Well, all I can say is that I've climbed Ben Starav and its very steep - and, if you do the ridge along to the next Munro, there's a bit of fairly easy scrambling.
At the time you're off on your hols, there could well be some snow cover - in fact, its more likely than not -  and I would say that if you feel like using a rope on the steep or scrambly bits, then use a rope. You might as well carry it, so.  Ive no experience of the other hill you mention, so I couldnt comment on that one.
But my view is that if its going to be more enjoyable and safer with a rope, then use one. It'd be daft to get crag fast ...or fall off due to wobbly legs...
There's probably easier hills to do if you didnt feel like pushing the limits at the time...
If you're trying to quell your incipient phobia then you might be better with somebody leading you up some scrambles with a rope. (or was that the idea?)
Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

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guy_osborn

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Thanks - yes, you got it in one (the bit about being led - though I don't mind leading if I'm on a rope) Hope there will be some snow. Thanks again for the advice - more welcome from any source!
Still very, very scared of heights. Even more now...

Ian s

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Ben Starav has a narrow rocky arete between the 2 tops which in summer is an easy scramble but in winter can turn into a heavily corniced knife edge.

Na Gruigaichean has a deep notch on it's summit ridge which can be one of the most tricky sections of the Mamores under snow. although short, it's probably about grade II.

Both were snow covered yesterday.

A rope would certainly be a good idea if tackling either of those routes under winter conditions, along with the knowledge to how to use it effectively in snow conditions (ie. effective dynamic belays, bucket seats, stompers etc). Personally if I'm going to take a rope I usually throw in a long sling and an HMS krab as well.

There are plenty of less (and more!) technical options to get some winter hills in along/around the WHW.

Hope this helps. Camping in December? I'm impressed!

Ian
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www.mountainfreedom.co.uk - Guided walking, scrambling and mountain skills throughout Scotland and further afield

guy_osborn

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Thank you for your help..I must confess to posting this same request on the outdoorsmagic site. I also asked the question that "although I chose Ben Starav, Na Gruigaichean (and White Corries/Creise and Stob Ghabar) from the easiest winter "walks" suggested on Scottishwinterroutes.com...Does anybody know if the last two (in brackets are perhaps better for a Sctoland winter first timer)...My son and nephew did the HRP (Pyrenees) over 8 weeks, finishing last November in snow for days, so they are naturally capable BUT they did it all by guesswork - so not experienced...Or any other ideas for walks there, of around ungraded difficulty? (sorry about font - posted Ben Starav, Na Gruigaichean, then saw I couldnt change font size! too, and getting replies there.
I suppose I'm looking for something that looks like  "hard core" walks but doesn't feel like one too much..sort of...ish..
Please keep the posts coming - I take them very seriously and am very grateful for any advice!
Still very, very scared of heights. Even more now...

Ian s

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Creise is not so bad but there is often a cornice and a tricky exit onto the main ridge from the connecting ridge of Meall a' Bhuiridh. That junction can be hard to locate in poor visibility.

Stob Gabhar is a good winter hill. If you do the circuit anticlockwise then you have the option of finishing by the narrower, harder "Aonach Eagach" E ridge or taking the easier descent by the SE ridge.

Na Gruagaichean is usually ok apart the section mentioned in previous post. it can be combined with Sgurr Eilde Beag and Binnein Mor which in themselves make a grand day out.

Buachaille Etive Mor is a good one. If you don't like the look of the steep avalanche prone icy snow slope that often forms in the back of Coire na Tulaich then you can access the ridge by by the Northern spur of the coire. Descent into Glen Etive from the col at the top of the coire gives a good way off in hard conditions or you can continue SW along the ridge and descend from the col after Sob na Doire into the (hopefully frozen!) Larig Gartain, or again, into Glen Etive.

Buachaille Etive Beag is also fun, starting from Glencoe rather than Glen Etive. There is a narrow section heading from the central col to the southern summit but there is no great great difficulty. This often forms a spectacular cornice.

Stob Coire nan Lochan in Glencoe can be good. The path up Coire nan Lochan ices up readily so needs care, but once in the upper coire you have a choice. The slopes to the W of the summit buttresses give a fairly straightforward route, in suitable conditions there are a number of easy gullies you can followor you just plod up to the RH skyline and follow it round. The E (left) side gives a more challenging route of ascent but not desperate. You can then complete the circuit by descending the previous. The Coire holds snow well and is a popular place to practice your winter skills.

Above bridge of Orchy Ben Dorain and Ben Dothaidh make a good day out although navigation on Dothaidh can be tricky in poor visibility.

However, when all's said and done the level of "winteryness" encountered at that time of year is pretty variable. Although you can get good snow cover and hard conditions, sometimes it's like summer! Just keep checking the SAIS and MWIS so you have an idea of how things are shaping up (or not).

Hope that gives you some ideas. Still impressed by your plan to camp.

Ian
www.mountainfreedom.co.uk

www.mountainfreedom.co.uk - Guided walking, scrambling and mountain skills throughout Scotland and further afield

guy_osborn

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Ian (and the rest) you are a star...Thank you for all the help and information. And for any of you who have not posted , please do - if I do not use your information this time, I will next time. Do NOT be impressed by my plans to camp - it is stupidity and lack of knowledge, not bravery or gung ho!
Cheers again
Guy
Still very, very scared of heights. Even more now...

guy_osborn

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Camping was great - conditions fabulous...but while crossing an icy stretch on Beinn Chabhair,  going towards An Caisteal, a dangling strap on my rucksack caught between two rocks and swung me...According to my son and nephew, who were yards behind, I was flipped onto my back with arms and legs in the air. I cartwheeled like a rag doll and landed on my pack, bounced, cartwheeled again and landed again on my pack. Third cartwheel I landed again on my pack and stopped bouncing. GPS broken, map flew out of side pocket and floated away. (Backup photocopy of map had already been ruined by a spillage). Broken fourth metacarpal, cracked elbow, popped a disc in my spine and compression fracture of a vertebra was the "only" damage (and just dull pain - to start with). The boys made their way down to me. I told them to stay put while I explored down the face - no way out. Scrambled back up, then along the face - which plateaued out. Camped the night and walked out next day. Drove back to Kent, hospital all day, X-rays and CT scans and sitting (painfully) at home typing this now. Moral - carry more GPS, 3 maps and do not leave a dangling strap...
Still very, very scared of heights. Even more now...

mike knipe

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Crikey, Guy, sounds like you've been lucky (in a way!).  Others would have had the rescue team out. You'll be feeling pretty batterred after that.....

 Did you have crampons on?  (Would they have made a difference/made it less likely/made it worse?)
Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

See the blog!  www.northernpies.blogspot.com

guy_osborn

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We put crampons on afterwards, on the sloping frozen snow sections, but up nearer the top was rocky, icy and clumps of frozen grass just right for tangling and catching crampons...I did speak to the boys about advantages/disadvantages of crampons, but felt putting feet on top of icy rock was more dangerous than putting un-cramponed boots carefully above and between rocks. I know I was VERY lucky and made my prayers after the slip and before the boys (well, nephew 19 years old and it was my son's 24th birthday - he won't forget that one!) crossed the nasty section and came down to join me "Please, let me fall later, not either of the boys now," just repeating it again and again as a mantra as they made their way down. I made a lot more "bargains" with God, one of them I cannot keep - I promised I would decorate my wife's and my bedroom (she has been asking me for a while) the day after I got back!
Still very, very scared of heights. Even more now...

Ian s

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Yeah it's pretty tricky going in these thin but cold conditions at the mo... hope you mend quickly and smoothly Guy..

Ian
www.mountainfreedom.co.uk
www.mountainfreedom.co.uk - Guided walking, scrambling and mountain skills throughout Scotland and further afield

Hillbillymike

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Hi Guy sounds like you a bit of an adventure  :o hope it hasn’t put you off Scotland and hope you are on the mend?  O0

Next time you make it to Scotland and if you would like a bit of advice on security on steep ground give me a shout, and we could over a bit of rope work, its amazing how much confidence/safety a well deployed rope will give.

Been really cold/dry for the last few weeks here in Blairgowrie which means everything’s covered in a thin coating of ice giving Verglas like conditions in the hills, tricky even with crampons and axe.

Hope your feeling better

Mike
I’m NOT a complete NUT as bits of me are missing!

Robert Craig

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Ouch Guy, that's going to sting a bit :( hope it doesn't put you off the hills but, if it is still your decision to make of course!

guy_osborn

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Thank you for the sympathy, going back up for a few days around February 14th....if I can walk a bit better.

And "sting"!!!!???? that's what doctors and nurses say when they get out the horse syringe to stick in your eye - or the dentist when they have to do a root canal...Sting!!!! Hmmmph! LOL

He he, I'll be back on the hills, but I think I've lost 1/2 my stupidity and all my courage...

Thanks for the well-wishes!
Still very, very scared of heights. Even more now...

jenny_adams

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Wow good luck x


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