Author Topic: Discovering Lost Ways.  (Read 2952 times)

barewirewalker

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Discovering Lost Ways.
« on: 18:25:35, 23/10/11 »
Yes the discovering lost way project is dead and buried, and the Stepping Forward initiative appears to be standing still. As far as I understand it, as a LAF member, who has nearly served 2 years, reference to it is noticeable for its lack of anything. But the initiative I thought was to bring together the main parties, who then agreed that the recovery of any lost way should be expedited as quickly as possible at the minimum of expense. Anyway that would be the common sense approach and if this was in fact happening one would think that progress reports would be flooding across the desks of those officers of access in our county halls responsible for improvement plans.  
   
If you are like me and have little faith in any bureaucracy shouldering such a heavy work load, I hope you will join me for a little discovering of lost ways of our own. It is, in fact, rather good fun, discovering a lost way has all the intrigue and suspense of a good detective novel, except it is like reading as you walk. To many the concept might seem a dreary job spent in archives pouring over old maps, but most of the clues are out there in the countryside or are there in your own head waiting for the little grey cells to click together, so suddenly a cry of ‘eureka’ will herald a moment of greater understanding.  
   
I will share some of my eureka moments with those of you who are interested, in the hope that you might raise awareness or even embarrass those, who should be ensuring that we do not hit the brick wall of 2026, like a blind greyhound waking up from a dream of glory, thinking the rabbit has been let out of the trap.  
   
There is a project that I have started with my own counties access team, we will wait to see if it sinks like a lead balloon, perhaps there may be others out there, who will recognise some of my indicators of a lost way or add some that I have yet to recognise. Perhaps add some words of common sense that I believe should be the core of argument that will push the boundaries of our access network beyond its present stalemate.  
   
Since retiring I have learnt to walk again, I have added to my experience of rock climber/mountaineer of my youth a new tier of understanding of walking pleasure, at first I thought that all footpaths led to the village church, but there are a lot of reasons for footpaths existing and I thirst for more knowledge, but the interesting bit is the piece of footpath that is not there. When the reasons for the bits that are there are understood, then it becomes possible to see, where those bits that are not there, should be.  
   
2026 may come and go, without proper recognition (I think that this is an almost certainty) and I hope sometimes in the future those responsible will be held to account. The post 2026 phase should already be underway, this is massaging the access network into a safer entity, ironing out those kinks that cause cross country routes to take to busy main roads or established rat-runs. Harmonising the needs of Horse Riders, Cyclists with the walking network, to make space for all and filling in the areas those areas short on access.  
   
   
However Utopia is a never, never land, so let’s see where lost ways lead to. As this topic slips away to the bottom of the page, I shall add some more, hopefully it will become a good read. I do hope that, with your help, I might learn from it so my own in put to LAF is more effective.  
   
   
Wow 576 words!! ::)  
« Last Edit: 18:29:43, 23/10/11 by barewirewalker »
BWW
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glovepuppet

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #1 on: 08:28:29, 24/10/11 »
I think part of the difficulty with a project like this is knowing where to start.
 
For example, there is a lot of de facto access granted in the countryside - almost every village will have a space where locals walk their dogs and the landowner will turn a blind eye as long as no harm is done, as happens in our village. So does this qualify as "access"? How long has it been allowed? And should/could any of this be upgraded to a right of way? How historical is it?
 
Also, many places could have old routes that have become unused or lost - again there is an example in our village - but knowing when they became disused is sometimes hard to establish, especially in the case of older routes that missed the post war mapping in the 50's. Who can now remember back that far - 60 years or so - to provide the facts that routes were used consistently for a lengthy period prior to that (I believe that memory counts as a kind of "proof")? I seem to remember that if a route is used unopposed for 20 years it can be formally established as a right of way, but that would require someone to be in their 80's to "prove" a path was lost from that time.
 
And what about those that were lost before that - for example those that were established as passage for estate workers that would be fizzling out from pre WW1? 
 
Another point here is that if a path has been lost can it be re-established? Our parish has a path (a very short one, it appears) that has been built over and lost. Records as to whether this was legal appear to have been lost, and it would be a very difficult thing to challenge/rectify the matter now, 15 to 20 years on.
 
So I'm not saying don't do it - far from it - but just that there are complications that make rediscovery of old paths more difficult than the simple phrase "discovering lost ways" makes it sound.
« Last Edit: 08:33:31, 24/10/11 by glovepuppet »

barewirewalker

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #2 on: 14:35:53, 24/10/11 »
I think part of the difficulty with a project like this is knowing where to start.
 

This is a very pertinent observation and is probably the single reason that most likely puts individual people off trying to get involved.
 
The RA representative on our LAF assures me that any lost way that is 'claimed' and put on the books as it were, before 2026 cannot be lost at that time.
 
I was put off by the bureaucracy at our Shire Hall, when I was told that to establish a RoW from Lost Way I would have to personally take the application to appeal and be prepared to carry the cost myself. What I intend to demonstrate on this topic that it is possible, from discovering lost ways, to find potential routes of value. What I will then try to do is establish that the Lost Way will not be lost after 2026 and attach to it reasoning that gives it a chance to get it onto the agenda of an access improvement plan.
 
Rather than looking at the problem from the top down, from whence it seems impossibly formidable, from the bottom looking up it seems possible. This way it may be possible to put pressure on the objectives set out by the stakeholders of Stepping Forward.
 
Most people with first hand knowledge have probably past on, however my mother in law has first hand knowledge of a footpath being a RoW on an estate on the boundaries of Shrewsbury. This RoW was left off the definitive map. Had that footpath been established there is a reasonable chance that the Severn Way may have been able to follow the north eastern bank of the Severn into Shrewsbury, allowing walkers to follow the line of the river closely, experience the Leaton Shelf and have an iconic view of the town at the point of first coming into sight. As it is this section of Severn Way through Shropshire ought to leave anyone even loosely connected with tourism thoroughly ashamed?
 
At a first glance this length of RoW seems to be a route for a tenant and his people to access the estate chapel, and there is naturally a route coming from the opposite direction. From my mother in laws account the landowner was most insistent, that the tenant (her father) recognise and maintain the footpath because it was a RoW. Why so! if it was an estate path to access the estate chapel?
 
The distance travelled on both paths to and from the chapel cross the full extent of the estate, beyond which there was a large house and another estate. The large house was demolished, though the estate still exists. These houses, as dramatised by Downton Abbey, were the hub of a community very much larger than we imagine today. Members of these communities would use the cross country routes to visit the town; they would have had relatives, produce to sell in the markets and personal shopping.
 
The present owners dismiss the existence of this RoW and council officials tend to fall in line with this thinking. By not imagining the countryside of the last century and before we are at risk of not seeing the clues that might unlock parts of our countryside that remain a forbidden zone.
 
From the opposite viewpoint we have the CLA articulating, that the short cuts of yesteryear have no place in the countryside of the 21st century, but the countrymen of the past were shrewd travellers, they left a signature of knowledge of quality of way, as well as a need to get to and from a destination.
BWW
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barewirewalker

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #3 on: 18:14:47, 09/11/11 »
Back in the days of the old ramblers' forum I posted about the corruption of the definitive map in the days of its formation. Back then the creation of a Right of Way was fairly arbitrary, but today to establish a RoW needs a lot of legal proof that almost makes it impossible to get useful additions to our access network included.
 
On that website I showed this image;
 

 
of a farm access bridge that crosses the dual carriage way 300m north of a RoW that is given access to the carriageway by stiles on either side of the main byepass of Shrewsbury.
The bridge cannot be accessed in order to cross this busy main road.
 
The following 3 images are taken from the 1881 OS map of this area and shows Corner Farm for which the access bridge was built.
 
In 1881 Corner Farm appears to have been the hub of a number of ways that generally led east, that is the direction of the town of Shrewsbury as it then was.
 

 
As many of us do, who plan their own routes, we piece together the bits of paths that lead across country and so did the travellers on foot did in the past.
 
Today the suburban area of Gains park occupies the ground to the east, then the Royal Shrewsbury Hospital, but once this was open countryside, through which the country people needed to cross to get to the town. Is a contiguous line of ways or common way the grounds by which RoW were judged.
 
The piece of RoW that crosses the dual carriage way would appear to be a mere tributory to the main thrust of the way that leads to the town.
 
To me it appears that the access bridge was built directly in line with this common way. Should such argument be allowed to create safe access to the countryside, where valuable infra-structure such as a bridge over a road where fast moving traffic is getting busier and busier.
 
 
BWW
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dave-harris

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #4 on: 21:18:33, 09/11/11 »
BBW, I am pleased this topic has raised its head again, it has in recent times slipped my mind. I used to read your corruption of the DM on the Ramblers and it made me look at maps where i walked here in the Garden. I could then, and still can see this on todays maps. Paths that just go nowhere, they cross a field to a boundary and just stop at a hedgerow or fence. large areas of maps with no green dotted lines, where there is quite obviously a need, or once was a need to cross there on foot. It is very hard to prove these points, and finding a starting block is almost imposable. I shall continue to read these threads and compare them to my areas. I may even try to re-create a path if i can prove it.
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histman

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #5 on: 23:30:43, 09/11/11 »
This is a very important topic. I too can remember BWW's informative postings on the defunct Ramblers Discussion area.

In my area of South Derbyshire there are several instances of paths and bridleways which were missed off the Definitive Map mainly due to the influence of large landowners and owners of country estates who ruled the parish councils and the rest of local government machinery when the initial DMs were originally drawn up in the 1950s. It is depressing that even today the very same families make walking difficult on public routes across their land and oppose any attempts to extend access.

The Discovering Lost Ways project swallowed up £5 million and produced very few additions to the Rights of Way network. However since its demise the impetus to map our "lost ways" seems to have petered out. Initiatives are fragmented and we cannot expect the present government to do anything to promote additions to the County DMs or change the 2026 date.

We need some mechanism to enable the researchers and groups working on unearthing the lost ways to at least be aware of each other and to share expertise. Unfortunately it will not be County ROW departments who do this work as they are being starved of money and staff.

In the example from BWW here it is obvious that something "fishy" has happened to the routes south west of Corner Farm. Looking at the 1880s OS map there is a footpath and a bridle road down to Woodcote Barns from Corner Farm (over where the road bridge is now) and a web of footpaths around Woodcote Barns: none of these are now ROWs.

Hopefully we will find out how this happened and who was responsible.
« Last Edit: 23:38:18, 09/11/11 by histman »

mananddog

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #6 on: 09:04:34, 10/11/11 »
This is a very interesting link. I think I have discovered a lost way. I was intrugued by a map in the village church which is a copy of one which shows the village in 1580. There is a distinct track to a hall - now long gone which then leads to a bridg, still in place but dangerously unstable, and on to another village with a large hall/manor which still stands.
 
This track crosses the field where were have our village bonfire. I was digging a few years ago to plant the big fireworks and hit a surface of stones on the line of this track. Curious I followed the now grassed over track which is almost invisible to the eye except in summer and dug a few test pits - they all threw up a stoney base suggesting, to me at least, a made up surface. This goes right to the bridge. I was unable to establish it over the far side of the stream because of ploughing but it connects with a bridleway going to the other village on the 1580 map.
By coincidence some locals still use this as a short cut but none I have spoken to know of any right of way. It is a very convinient short cut which mean I can avoid the (rather quiet) road when going running or to going to my polytunnel and luckily the neither the previous nor present landowners have made any objection to folks walking along this route.
 
There is another potential "lost way" on the 1580 map but unfortunately that now is under someone's house built in the late 90s. However, there is another way 70m away which runs parallel to it which is not on the 1580s map so I assume the route changed for some reason.

barewirewalker

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #7 on: 13:56:16, 10/11/11 »
Hi ‘dave’ glad to see that you are still keeping an eye on me.
 
Since last posting this example there are two main changes. Firstly I am now a member of SCC Local Access Forum, not that this gives any means to make changes, but it has allowed me some insight into the workings of the system and secondly I have learnt to access the records in the county archive.
 
I believe what I am finding is relevant to others and so what I learn may be useful to others and hopefully others will contribute their knowledge to help in a learning curve that ‘histman’ so rightly points out, that this is all ‘dead and buried’ after 2026.
 
Thanks ‘histman’ for your post. This morning I spoke to the Councillor for the Gains park ward, where this issue is local. I am sending him the link to this topic, so that he can read a more informative account, than could be explained on the telephone. Your explanation of the situation in your area is a valuable contribution.
 
And ‘histman’ you are right there was indeed a villain of the piece or several. To the NW there is Onslow Hall the very type of Victorian/Edwardian estate that features where there are obvious flaws in the access network as proscribed by the DM. A close look at the map will reveal a Parish Boundary very close to Corner Farm. It is possible that the white lane leading to the farm and the bridge fell within the area of the old Atcham and Rural District Council, this was chaired by an estate agent Gordon Miller at the time of the formation of the DM, who administered (according to one local farmer) at least 7 estates around Shrewsbury. The then owner of the Onslow estate, Wingfield by name, according to a well known local reporter had an air of self importance and little else to do with his time but massage his self esteem. Corner farm is still on the Onslow estate.
 
Since posting last night I realise that the images of the 1881 map are not as good as they should be (I will try to make a better image), although the ‘common way, shown is now covered with the urban encroachment of the 20th century, the indicators that led me to the conclusion that this was a well used way over an area the extends beyond that of one property owner are there to be seen on the map.
 
Mananddog’s post highlights one very good reason why these lost ways are still important to our countryside network, the ways themselves may not be too relevant but they lead to valuable infra-structure such as his rickety bridge. I hope to pursue this topic to reveal other such items of infra-structure that should be identified before the 2026 cut off date.
   
   
This image may be a bit more easy to see the points on the map.  
   
The footpath actually goes along the boundary of Corner farms orchard, with a spur that leads to the front of the house. Many comunual routes tended to go to the back doors of farms so that the resident employees, such as dairy maids, could travel in company to church and such, Here we have a route that actually byepasses the farm.  
   
Slightly further east the way that joins the E to W route from the south splits in a Y denoting the use of the route in two directions. These cartographers were the best of their generation and not the slap dash compilers of the DM and this can be seen by the detail of the trees, a path across a field needs to be in pretty regularly used to be picked up in this detail.  
   
It is interesting how the general direction of the way has the option to veer south to join the road that is now the B4386 Montgomery or north to join the line of the old Roman road. Women walking in long dresses would surely have prefered to walk, where there was less wheeled traffic to cut up the road surface.  
   
The picture of this way to the west of Corner farm also hold some fascinating clues, this will come when I have the images prepared to post.  
   
As an incidental note I had to pay £5 for the priviledge of photographing the microfiche in the county archives, in order to keep the cost down to a reasonable cost per image I took about 200 shots, these are taking a bit of sorting through.   
BWW
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histman

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #8 on: 23:15:16, 10/11/11 »
@mananddog your lost way sounds very interesting particularly as you mention a connection with a bridleway which I presume still exists.

The first thing I would do is photograph the plan in the church just in case something happens to it! It may of course be a widely available map. I'd also email your local ROW department to check if anyone else is claiming this route.

Next I would try and track down the enclosure award to see if this path is included. This will be useful ammunition if you come to make a claim. Then you could check if the path appeared on old OS maps. 19th century maps down to 1:2500 are available free to view on old-maps.co.uk. By using an image viewer like Irfanview you can produce useful copies of the areas of the maps you require.

The research required to add a new route to the Definitive Map is considerable but there are plenty of people to help you - on this forum.

I would suggest that you have a look at this document produced by the Ramblers.

http://tinyurl.com/forgottenpaths [nofollow]

Unfortunately their Forgotten Paths Project never seemed to get off the ground and as far as I know is defunct as I was a volunteer with this scheme and have heard nothing for 3 years. I presume that the original project staff down at Ramblers HQ have all gone as they seem to have a fast turn-over there.

BWW - this is getting interesting. There is usually a local landowner/grandee putting the spanner in the works. I am still struggling with the embedded maps in your post but have been playing around with old-maps.co.uk.

I'll post some links to my efforts tomorrow and you can let me know if I am going in the right direction.


Addendum
I have placed some map files here from old-maps.

http://www.mediafire.com/?wdg99a82q57gw [nofollow]
« Last Edit: 11:50:42, 11/11/11 by histman »

barewirewalker

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #9 on: 11:41:38, 12/11/11 »
Interesting ‘histman’ shows a facet of this topic that is perhaps unknown to many of us. Claiming a lost way as opposed to recovering a right of way that has been disallowed might be splitting hairs, but does this show a method to force a route to be opened?  
   
In the Corner Farm instance the way is clearly there, as a farm access track to fields from the farm and as the construction of a dual carriageway byepass has severed the farm in two. But the appearance of this track is that of an old green lane, kinking its way between fields, hedges on both side and mature oak trees in the hedgerows. Even the position of the gates give the impression of more than mere farm access as there is an aura of mature countryside. However the lane today peters out before the destination that is shown on the adjacent map, is this an indication that cessation of the original use of the way or part use was the reason for the lane not being put on the DM as a right of way.  
   
The images that I have are better from the 1903 map, but by this time the railway is disused. A foot path crosses the railway line, that was active in 1881, so the need for people to access the western end of the track between Woodcote Barns and Corner Farm was still sufficient to be mapped.     
 

 
This does show how collaboration of thought can lead to a greater understanding, because I am realising the the contiguous continuity of the direction of the footpaths re-inforces the logic that the whole of the route between Woodcote Barn and Corner Farm is a lost way. The section from the new bridge to the wood (on first map) is clear on the ground. From the wood to Woodcote Barns the way has disappeared.
 
Histman my apologies for not reading your post more thoroughly first time around, if you are interested in looking at the maps in more detail please PM me as I can e-mail the full size images, I reduce the image size for my photo bucket account.
BWW
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barewirewalker

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #10 on: 11:33:13, 17/11/11 »
The distance of Sascott on the west of the railway line from the town centre is about 5miles. There is another example on the east side of Shrewsbury that points to a contiguous line of routes that would have been used by country people having to walk into the town.  
   
In an article about RoW in the Land and business Harry Cotterill, the Deputy President of the Country Landowners Association said that walkers wanted well sign posted circular routes near to a car park. Part of the thrust of his argument was to do away with the little used short-cuts of yester year.  
   
In this map there is just such an example;  
   
 
   
There is also a classic example of the inadequacy of the compilation of the definitive map, because if the footpath between Upton Magna and Benjay House is a RoW, where did it continue?  
   
On all of the maps I have found pre 1940 there was a footpath from the Brickyard cottages that led to the ferry that crossed the river Severn near Preston.(shown in blue) This has a valuable piece of infrastructure built into its way in the form of an archway through the railway embankment.  
   
Why would GWR have spent the money to build such a structure, the land on either side of the railway belonged to different land owners? If there was a way between two separate ownerships then the right of that way must have been agreed so that the archway would have been built.  
   
By accepting the DM as the final answer did the lawyers doing the searches to build the new Shrewsbury byepass that now cuts across the original footpath make a serious mistake?  
   
I believe that it is possible to show that this arch has the potential to be a valuable asset and not a weird anomaly of the DM and an irrelevance of our history.  
   
 
   
In this picture the ferry house is plainly visible. That holding was/is on the Longnor Estate and the viability of the tenancy would have come from the income taken from the ferry. Would the landowner have safeguarded the rents from this property by having a RoW through this structure?  
   
This may seem to be Shropshire problem but I think that these examples provide clear examples of instances that are countrywide, it may not be the actual way that is issue but the valuable infrastructure that is dormant and cannot be got into the improvement plans of our access network.  
BWW
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glovepuppet

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #11 on: 11:56:57, 17/11/11 »
Interesting again, BWW.
 
One observation, if I may. I think a lot of the older paths that reach a road and then appear to stop may be because the newer road follows the route of the older RoW - in effect it has been tarmaced over, but is still a RoW.
 
But of course in other areas, there are lots of the type of anomalies you mention - some will be with (good) reason, some just because ......
 
It would be good if at least some new routes could be added to the DM - those that make some sense in the overall RoW scheme.

barewirewalker

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #12 on: 19:33:42, 18/11/11 »
Interesting again, BWW.
 
One observation, if I may. I think a lot of the older paths that reach a road and then appear to stop may be because the newer road follows the route of the older RoW - in effect it has been tarmaced over, but is still a RoW.
 
But of course in other areas, there are lots of the type of anomalies you mention - some will be with (good) reason, some just because ......
 
It would be good if at least some new routes could be added to the DM - those that make some sense in the overall RoW scheme.


Good to have caught your interest,


When I grew up in the area the tenant that farmed the field with the footpath to Benjay cottage us to land his twin engine plane right down the line of the RoW, and would have given any walkers who might have had the temerity to use the way an old fashioned strafing.


Since it has now got onto the OS map as a right of way it does seem a bit isolated because it was a short cut to the road and then the route followed the road to the point it goes cross country to approach the ferry.


Nowadays to follow that stretch of road would defy all logic and place a very unpleasant stretch  into a walk.


But this is not a reason to write it off because it is not used, I can demonstrate how it can produce a excellent element to a number of types a walks and should be seen as a valuable asset. The problem is after 2026 the other elements that should be used as negotiating counters will be lost.


That archway is infrastructure that could open up a wide tract of countryside to walking and horse riding to the advantage the economy without detriment to agriculture in any way.



BWW
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barewirewalker

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Re: Discovering Lost Ways.
« Reply #13 on: 14:08:41, 22/11/11 »
The solution to this unfortunate lack of access (Where there should have been access) is another lost way of sorts. This does not fall into the category that is usually seen as a lost way, but is it a way that should have been claimed?  
   
The old canal tow path from the north end of the tunnel to Uffington was used regularly, from before the demise of the ferry and after the termination of canal traffic, by members of more than a dozen families that lived at Preston to go to the post office, shop and pub in Uffington and was used as a route into Shrewsbury. Also some of the children of the families that lived there cycled along the towpath to go to college and first jobs in Shrewsbury by that route. Unfortunately this route has also been severed by the new Shrewsbury Bye Pass, again un-noticed by diligent legal searchers.  
   
As Harry Cotterill (CLA) describes an old RoW, a short cut of yesteryear, which is all the access some of his members will allow us, the claim that a route that was used over a period of time and is claimable as a RoW is being stopped up by encouragement from Sarah Slade the CLA legal spokesperson.  
   
Today’s leisure access does not need to be a short cut, quality of way benefits from extra distance away from the heavy traffic of country lanes turned into rat runs by today’s pace of life and are valuable amenities, which should be fought for by our local authorities especially where there is valuable infrastructure that will give extra character to a country walk.  
   
From Benjay House it is a short walk down the lane towards Preston to a railway bridge, walking the hedge line beside railway to another bridge that carries the line over the canal. At this point one joins the severed part of the towpath that leads into Shrewsbury, both Preston and Upton Magna could be linked by footpath to Shrewsbury again using old infrastructure for no extra cost and repairing the damage that the 20th century has done to the old footpath network.  
   
 
Having accepted as gospel of the evidence of the corrupted DM, I expect the lawyers then turned to writing up their bills, despite the evident great line across the maps dating back to the early 19th century and a substantial archway in a railway, which went un-noticed. I think that the ratepayers of Uffington have been shortchanged in the interpretation of the access network especially where an expensive road development has taken place.  
   
This is not the only way that the residents of this village have been done out of accessing the features of their surrounding countryside…..to be continued.  
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

 

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