Author Topic: Missing people /Deaths  (Read 2362 times)

dinger

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Missing people /Deaths
« on: 11:16:15, 19/01/18 »

I'm quite shocked to see how many people have gone missing lakes/Snowdonia/cairngorms .
After using various hiking forums and facebook mountain forums. I knew it happened but its happening more often then I expected. Just recently 4 deaths Tryfan 2 guys gone missing for days in the lakes and many more I'm sure.

Ridge

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #1 on: 11:28:37, 19/01/18 »
and many more I'm sure.
I think more people are going walking and more people are going walking in extreme conditions but the reason you hear about deaths is because they are rare.
More than 30 people will have been killed on the roads this week we don't hear about it because it is so common as to not be news worthy and we don't belong to a road safety forum.


Not that I am saying that mountain walking is safer than driving as, as a percentage of participants, who knows what the figures show.

gunwharfman

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #2 on: 14:32:38, 19/01/18 »
I agree Ridge, fits in with the information that I can read about in 'How to lie with statistics' by Daryl Huff, I often refer to it when 'facts' are presented to me.

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #3 on: 17:37:50, 19/01/18 »
Last November, both Llanberis and Ogwen Mountain rescue teams were being interviewed on Wales Today.
2017 saw an unprecedented increase in visitor numbers to Snowdonia, especially Snowdon, the exact figures were not disclosed, but the traffic up Snowdon has increased considerably.
No doubt its the same in the Lake District, and most certainly the Brecon Beacons.

Its inevitable, that with the huge increase in visitor numbers, many of them unprepared for the challenges that face them climbing high mountains, more accidents and death's will occur.

Ridge

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #4 on: 17:48:15, 19/01/18 »
I agree with you DA, and it is great that more people are enjoying the hills.


But this is very sloppy journalism if it is what Wales today said.
unprecedented increase in visitor numbers to Snowdonia, ..., but the traffic up Snowdon has increased considerably.
Come on BBC numbers or percentages.

bricam2096

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #5 on: 19:25:59, 19/01/18 »
I wonder if part of the problem is the amount of outdoor programmes on TV that seem to be getting more popular that seem to glamourise hillwalking and make it look easy? Joe Bloggs sees it and decides to give it a shot, what can possibly go wrong?
LDWs done - 32 in total including 16 National Trails and 3 C2C

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www.brians-walks.co.uk

dinger

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #6 on: 19:38:59, 19/01/18 »
it was only last week at old man Coniston on my route down, a young couple heading up she was in jeans and him in tracksuit they were approx. 45-1hour off to the summit and there were only 2 hours light left

Slogger

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #7 on: 16:17:46, 20/01/18 »
Some years ago talking to a Mountain rescue guy in the Kinghouse Hotel at the head of Glen Coe. He told us that walkers/Climbers go missing every year, mostly in Winter. They fall or go through snow bridges whilst crossing Corries, get burried by snow which hides them from search teams and their bodies are only discovered after the snow melts. I rememeber a father and son coming off Ben nevis made the mistake of not following the compass and paces rule to descent off there safely. They headed towards dangerous Five Finger Gully. The father slipped and disappeared. The son got down and raised the allarm. No sign of the father despite numerous searches. Then months later the search team borrowed an ultrasonic device and scanned a big ice block in the gully, where they found the him. People going missing and not found are usually the result of going cross country off their planned route. I often change my mind about a route part through and often go direct cross country, that's why I always carry a personal tracker.

Gadabout Bounder

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #8 on: 11:46:17, 21/01/18 »
Preparedness - Talking to my Stepdaughter (30 years old) about walking.


She says her friend has 'done' Snowdon and she wants to do it.


'Is it uphill'


I just looked away
'We've spilt the same blood in the same mud'

clyoung

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #9 on: 13:47:07, 21/01/18 »
I'm quite shocked to see how many people have gone missing lakes/Snowdonia/cairngorms .
After using various hiking forums and facebook mountain forums. I knew it happened but its happening more often then I expected. Just recently 4 deaths Tryfan 2 guys gone missing for days in the lakes and many more I'm sure.


This is the second post saying there have been 4 deaths on Tryfan in recent weeks but I can only find details of one. This is a mountain I'd like to tackle one day (having chickened out at the end of a long day in the Glyderau last year), so I'm keen to understand if there's anything to learn from these tragic incidents.

phil1960

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #10 on: 14:12:25, 21/01/18 »
There is always something to learn. Myself and my other half had never done Tryfan before either, but we’ve now been up twice, once via the Heather Terrace and once via the North Ridge. They were two years apart, planned carefully and the right day and weather chosen, on two occasions we were going to go up but did something else because the weather wasn’t right. Neither of us have great heads for heights, but felt comfortable when we did it.
Touching from a distance, further all the time.

barewirewalker

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #11 on: 14:28:24, 21/01/18 »
, so I'm keen to understand if there's anything to learn from these tragic incidents.
so should others, around the time I got thrown off the Shropshire Local Access Forum, shortly after the chair was taken over by a hereditary landowner, I had been trying to get the idea over that not enough attention is given lowland walking, how the access network falls short of giving novice walkers worthwhile challenges, so they will not be immediately attracted to the National Parks before they get some familiarity with their skills and physical abilities. At that time a walker had taken a wrong path of the top of Snowdon and fallen down the North Face.
When you come to do a descent, you are tired and this applies to the brain as well as your body, so judgement can be a factor. I read the inquest judgement at the time, though I remember little of the facts now, I recall my immediate hunch about what could have happened having spent quite a bit of time during winters climbing the Trinity Gullies there.I don't think there enough emphasis on false trails, walkers are not the only users of the mountains and rock climbing in all weathers has increased enormously since my day, but we climbed enough of the Tryfan east face in poor conditions back in the 1960's and 70's to leave false trails to the tops of climbs, as we would have doing the Trinities in Snow and Ice. Belay positions on the tops of the cliffs increase the foot erosion and combined with water running down this does increase the appearance of a footpath.
With the combined effect of tiredness and not double checking your exact direction of travel, leaves a possibility that false trails lure those less familiar with their general fitness into a dangerous place.


Thanks to the landowner of our LAF I was not able to get these thoughts into the minutes.
« Last Edit: 14:54:23, 21/01/18 by barewirewalker »
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clyoung

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #12 on: 14:35:50, 21/01/18 »
There is always something to learn. Myself and my other half had never done Tryfan before either, but we’ve now been up twice, once via the Heather Terrace and once via the North Ridge. They were two years apart, planned carefully and the right day and weather chosen, on two occasions we were going to go up but did something else because the weather wasn’t right. Neither of us have great heads for heights, but felt comfortable when we did it.


This is my approach too. Last year we were going to follow our day in the Glyderau with the Cwm Llan Horseshoe but sensibly decided that our fitness after the previous day and the weather forecast made that unwise.


What I was getting at with my post is that two people have now said that there have been 4 deaths in recent weeks, yet I can't find any information about the other three. I find this very strange. The last death on Tryfan before this one that I can find news reports for was in July, the one before that in May. Those two involved routes I wouldn't contemplate.

phil1960

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #13 on: 16:40:57, 21/01/18 »
I guess if anything happens on Tryfan, ovmro would know about it as it’s their area
https://ogwen-rescue.org.uk/incident-details/
Touching from a distance, further all the time.

clyoung

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Re: Missing people /Deaths
« Reply #14 on: 17:13:19, 21/01/18 »
I guess if anything happens on Tryfan, ovmro would know about it as it’s their area
https://ogwen-rescue.org.uk/incident-details/


If you search for Tryfan, that tallies with the news reports I found. Previous death was last July, not in the last few weeks. The long list of call outs shows this is a challenging mountain and very much to be respected, and clearly every death is a tragedy, but it's not four deaths in recent weeks.

 

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