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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: Chris_663 on 13:56:41, 09/09/19

Title: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 13:56:41, 09/09/19
Hi all new to the forums and glad to be here  :) . I would say I'm no expert in Hiking, I never got into the different terminologies and I don't know a lot of popular hiking routes that others probably know. I am however very active and I've been hiking over various parts of the UK for many years, so I'd say I'm not a total total beginner. Ordinarily I research things carefully before I buy and this time around I was looking for a little help with boots.

I've been using a really poor quality pair of karrimor boots which leave my feet in pieces for the last few years, but now I want to get into hiking more seriously the time has come to buy a new pair and I want to make sure I get something that is going to last me and provide great comfort too.

The plan is I'll be going on hikes every other weekend, I'm based close to the Yorkshire three peaks which I imagine I'll be doing a lot. Most of the terrain I would say will be fairly even, however I'd like something that will be good for scrambling over harsh terrain as I plan to run routes like scafell pike again, once i get back into it full time.

These are the ones I have been looking at so far:

Mammut Ayako High GTX
Salomon Quest 4d 3 GTX
Mountain Warehouse Excalibur Leather Boots

(Sorry can't post links yet)

The mammuts I have felt in store, feel super sturdy and overall seem like very high quality, although maybe a little overkill for standard UK hill walking? The salomons have been recommended by a friend but I haven't felt them yet and the MW leather ones are a reasonable price currently on sale and leather, but I've read online MW gear is poor quality. I was wondering if anyone else had any recommendations too as I'm still pretty early in the decision making process.

Any help much appreciated

Many Thanks
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: WhitstableDave on 15:56:51, 09/09/19
In my short time on this forum I've learned that there are a lot of experts on the subject of boots, but I'll have a quick go at answering before they arrive...  ;)

I began with MW boots (and shoes) because prices in 'proper' outdoors shops seemed ridiculous. They really weren't very good - leaky, short life, not sturdy.

So I had to spend more. Salomon Quest 4D GTX were next. First pair lasted 4 months before leaking. New replacements also lasted 4 months before leaking. My wife uses the women's version and they leak badly (but she likes them and uses waterproof socks!).

I upgraded to Scarpa R-Evo GTX boots and they've been excellent - waterproof, supportive and comfortable.  O0


Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 16:10:17, 09/09/19
In my short time on this forum I've learned that there are a lot of experts on the subject of boots, but I'll have a quick go at answering before they arrive...  ;)

I began with MW boots (and shoes) because prices in 'proper' outdoors shops seemed ridiculous. They really weren't very good - leaky, short life, not sturdy.

So I had to spend more. Salomon Quest 4D GTX were next. First pair lasted 4 months before leaking. New replacements also lasted 4 months before leaking. My wife uses the women's version and they leak badly (but she likes them and uses waterproof socks!).

I upgraded to Scarpa R-Evo GTX boots and they've been excellent - waterproof, supportive and comfortable.  O0


Thanks for the input, appreciate it. The Scarpas you mentioned are within my budget so I'll consider them too, many thanks. How long have you been using these so far?
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 16:28:36, 09/09/19
I  can't comment on the Mammut Ayako High GTX having never come across it before but as already pointed out Salomon have an extremely high failure rate for leaking, Mountain Warehouse seem to think of a number and offer a high discount to make it look like you're getting a good deal but the build quality is generally poor.

If you want high quality boots and something that's going to last I would suggest that you probably need to increase your budget and look at full leather boots with minimal stiching and if possible a high rubber rand to protect the toe area from scuffs and scrapes.

I would recommend that you have a look at Altberg's range of boots. Depending on the type of walking you do most the following models may be suitable options. If the model of a boot made on the standard last doesn't quite fit or suit your particular foot shape, width and volume it's a fairly safe be that a boot made on either the A-Forme or G-Fit last will. All Altberg boots can be resoled if and when the need arises.

2-3 Season Boots
Altberg Fremington Men's 1412g RRP £179.99 (standard last with 5 width fittings) https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/the-fremington-mens-boot-mto/ (https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/the-fremington-mens-boot-mto/)
Altberg Malham Men's 1344g RRP £184.99 (A-Forme last with 1 medium width fitting) https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/the-malham-mens-boot-mto/ (https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/the-malham-mens-boot-mto/)
Altberg Keld Unisex 1428g RRP £189.99 (G-Fit last with 1 wide width high volume fitting) https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/keld-boot-factory-stock/ (https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/keld-boot-factory-stock/)

3 Season Boots
Altberg Tethera Men's 1472g RRP £214.99 (standard last with 5 width fittings) https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/the-tethera-mens-boot-mto/ (https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/the-tethera-mens-boot-mto/)
Altberg Nordkapp Unisex 1460g RRP £219.99 (A-Forme last with 1 medium width fitting) https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/factory-stock-nordkapp/ (https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/factory-stock-nordkapp/)
Altberg Kisdon Unisex 1622g RRP £219.99 (G-Fit last with 1 wide width high volume fitting) https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/kisdon-boot-factory-stock/ (https://www.altberg.co.uk/product/kisdon-boot-factory-stock/)

I would highly recommend that you visit to Whalley Warm & Dry https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/boot-fitting-service/ (https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/boot-fitting-service/) who are an Altberg Premier Retailer and I cannot recommend their boot fitting service highly enough. Customers travel from all over the country to use their boot fitting skills and services and are highly recommended by many other forum members.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: gunwharfman on 16:29:05, 09/09/19
For me. I too have owned Quest 4D and mine also leaked, my recent Salomon Ultra X's also leaked. I do not know your other two boots, all I know in leather is Berghaus Supalites. I've owned three pairs to date, my feet were always dry until the last pair gave up in November 2017. I had them for over two years, feet dry until then. The other two pairs (they never leaked) it was the soles that just wore down along the outer edges so became uncomfortable. I would happily go back to Supalites again, my feet fit in them very well.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 16:51:43, 09/09/19
I  can't comment on the Mammut Ayako High GTX having never come across it before but as already pointed out Salomon have an extremely high failure rate for leaking, Mountain Warehouse seem to think of a number and offer a high discount to make it look like you're getting a good deal but the build quality is generally poor.

If you want high quality boots and something that's going to last I would suggest that you probably need to increase your budget and look at full leather boots with minimal stiching and if possible a high rubber rand to protect the toe area from scuffs and scrapes.

(Cant post links yet)


Thank you for the detailed reply, you've certainly given me something to think about! I am happy to increase my budget and I'll take a look into Altberg boots as suggested. Whalley Outdoors isn't too far away from me so I could pay them a visit and like they say "Take the guess work out"  

 
Many Thanks again ^^
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 16:52:21, 09/09/19
For me. I too have owned Quest 4D and mine also leaked, my recent Salomon Ultra X's also leaked. I do not know your other two boots, all I know in leather is Berghaus Supalites. I've owned three pairs to date, my feet were always dry until the last pair gave up in November 2017. I had them for over two years, feet dry until then. The other two pairs (they never leaked) it was the soles that just wore down along the outer edges so became uncomfortable. I would happily go back to Supalites again, my feet fit in them very well.


Sounds like the quest 4ds are a no go then! thanks for the input
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: ninthace on 16:53:17, 09/09/19

Thank you for the detailed reply, you've certainly given me something to think about! I am happy to increase my budget and I'll take a look into Altberg boots as suggested. Whalley Outdoors isn't too far away from me so I could pay them a visit and like they say "Take the guess work out"  

 
Many Thanks again ^^
Wise decision.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 17:05:01, 09/09/19
Just briefly then, what would be the benefits of having high vs mid boots?
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: WhitstableDave on 17:12:31, 09/09/19
Just briefly then, what would be the benefits of having high vs mid boots?
You can walk through deeper water without your feet getting wet?  ;)

But seriously... Again I'm no expert having just the Scarpas and a pair of lower leather Berghaus boots. The Scarpas can eventually let in water after a lot of exposure while the Berghaus boots haven't let in any yet - but I've not used the latter as much because I find them less comfortable.

(My Scarpas have lasted a couple of years and are still almost as new, but I do at least 90% of my walking in approach shoes and I've been through a lot of those!)
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 17:36:36, 09/09/19
Just briefly then, what would be the benefits of having high vs mid boots?

In general the higher the ankle cuff is the more ankle support and protection it offers.

2/3 season boots have a lower ankle cuff and are generally used for lower level walking whilst 3 season boots have a higher ankle cuff and are more suitable for higher level walking and offer more ankle protection on rougher ground and in some cases they may also have a slightly stiffer sole with less flex than the 2/3 season boots.

If you haven't already got some you will also find a pair of either GoreTex or Event gaiters a great help in keeping water, mud and grit out of your boots. There's no need to spend a fortune something like the Trekmates Cairngorm GTX gaiters can be had for around £20.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: pauldawes on 17:53:45, 09/09/19

Thank you for the detailed reply, you've certainly given me something to think about! I am happy to increase my budget and I'll take a look into Altberg boots as suggested. Whalley Outdoors isn't too far away from me so I could pay them a visit and like they say "Take the guess work out"  

 
Many Thanks again ^^


I’d certainly go to somewhere like that...a shop with qualified boot fitters and a wide range to try on. And other things being equal I’d agree with kinkyboot’s notion that it’s a good idea to go with full leather, minimal stitching and a good protective rand.


(If you treat the leather correctly leather boots will remain waterproof after internal membrane breaks down...a big advantage over fabric, if you’re paying “top dollar” and want something that lasts.”)


Beyond that I’d say go with the pair where your immediate gut feeling is “wow, these are super comfortable”.


By and large modern boots are comfortable from the start..or never become comfortable... don’t fall for the notion they will become much more comfortable once they “break in”.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: gunwharfman on 18:23:53, 09/09/19
My Salomon Quest 4D's were high, No matter how I tried to remedy the problem after a few days they just kept rubbing my lower limbs red-raw. Nowadays I will only go for midi boots, for my feet and legs, perfect!
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 09:04:20, 10/09/19
In general the higher the ankle cuff is the more ankle support and protection it offers.

2/3 season boots have a lower ankle cuff and are generally used for lower level walking whilst 3 season boots have a higher ankle cuff and are more suitable for higher level walking and offer more ankle protection on rougher ground and in some cases they may also have a slightly stiffer sole with less flex than the 2/3 season boots.

If you haven't already got some you will also find a pair of either GoreTex or Event gaiters a great help in keeping water, mud and grit out of your boots. There's no need to spend a fortune something like the Trekmates Cairngorm GTX gaiters can be had for around £20.


Thanks for the tip. I'll probably need gaitors with our UK weather system. Decided to book into the Whalleys and see what they say! I'll let you know how I get on  O0
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: mow1701 on 09:26:53, 10/09/19
I’d always recommend Altberg boots specifically the Fremington for general walking and backpacking. The closet you can get to a bespoke boot as they come in different foot sizes(obviously) but the clincher is they offer different widths. They are leather with a membrane and never has issues of wet feet. I tried synthetics but they always fail eventually as it solely relies on the membrane. I used to use scarpa but the Altberg are more durable- first boots I have had resoled as the leather hasn't cracked. Tried mammut but found them too narrow. Used on many long distance backpacking trips ( Pennine Way, Cape Wrath Trail,Kungsleden) and have kept my feet dry and comfortable
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 09:32:36, 10/09/19
Regardless of which boots you end up buying you may find the information/advice on this webpage very useful https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/walking-boots-care-guide/ (https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/walking-boots-care-guide/)

If you buy your boots at Whalley Warm & Dry they may throw in a tin of Leder Gris Original Clear and a tin of Leder Gris Xtreme with your purchase but in my experience they don't discount their prices on the boots.

(https://i.postimg.cc/qvmyShgZ/Whalley_Altberg_Leather_Care_Instructions.jpg)


You can split Whalley Warm & Dry's recommended wax products in to two distinct categories. The main difference between the two types is the increased oil content in the wax for the high wear areas - Leder Gris Original has 70% wax/30% oil content whilst the Leder Gris Xtreme has 50% wax/50% oil content.

Wax For Everyday All Over Use

Leder Gris Original Clear (Green 80g Tin) (£4.60 upwards) https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax (https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax)
Grangers G-Wax (£2.70 upwards)
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/grangers-g-wax-leather-footwear-conditioner-p342371 (https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/grangers-g-wax-leather-footwear-conditioner-p342371)
https://www.tog24.com/grangers-g-wax-one.html (https://www.tog24.com/grangers-g-wax-one.html)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Wax-Grangers-80g/dp/B078NGW9VQ/ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Wax-Grangers-80g/dp/B078NGW9VQ/)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grangers-G-Wax-80g-Leather-Shoe-Boot-Waterproofer-Proofer-Beeswax-Polish-Dubbing/272674990800 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grangers-G-Wax-80g-Leather-Shoe-Boot-Waterproofer-Proofer-Beeswax-Polish-Dubbing/272674990800)

Wax For High Wear Areas Such As Flex Point and Tongue

Leder Gris Xtreme Clear (Red 80g Tin) (£5.00 upwards) https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax-clear (https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax-clear)
Cherry Blossom Waxed Leather Oil 100ml (£4.98 upwards) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cherry-Blossom-Waxed-Leather-Oil-100ml/152836834522 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cherry-Blossom-Waxed-Leather-Oil-100ml/152836834522)


You may also find some Nikwax Footwear Cleaning Gel will come in handy.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 12:22:46, 13/09/19
Regardless of which boots you end up buying you may find the information/advice on this webpage very useful https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/walking-boots-care-guide/ (https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/walking-boots-care-guide/)

If you buy your boots at Whalley Warm & Dry they may throw in a tin of Leder Gris Original Clear and a tin of Leder Gris Xtreme with your purchase but in my experience they don't discount their prices on the boots.

(https://i.postimg.cc/qvmyShgZ/Whalley_Altberg_Leather_Care_Instructions.jpg)


You can split Whalley Warm & Dry's recommended wax products in to two distinct categories. The main difference between the two types is the increased oil content in the wax for the high wear areas - Leder Gris Original has 70% wax/30% oil content whilst the Leder Gris Xtreme has 50% wax/50% oil content.

Wax For Everyday All Over Use

Leder Gris Original Clear (Green 80g Tin) (£4.60 upwards) https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax (https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax)
Grangers G-Wax (£2.70 upwards)
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/grangers-g-wax-leather-footwear-conditioner-p342371 (https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/grangers-g-wax-leather-footwear-conditioner-p342371)
https://www.tog24.com/grangers-g-wax-one.html (https://www.tog24.com/grangers-g-wax-one.html)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Wax-Grangers-80g/dp/B078NGW9VQ/ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Wax-Grangers-80g/dp/B078NGW9VQ/)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grangers-G-Wax-80g-Leather-Shoe-Boot-Waterproofer-Proofer-Beeswax-Polish-Dubbing/272674990800 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grangers-G-Wax-80g-Leather-Shoe-Boot-Waterproofer-Proofer-Beeswax-Polish-Dubbing/272674990800)

Wax For High Wear Areas Such As Flex Point and Tongue

Leder Gris Xtreme Clear (Red 80g Tin) (£5.00 upwards) https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax-clear (https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax-clear)
Cherry Blossom Waxed Leather Oil 100ml (£4.98 upwards) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cherry-Blossom-Waxed-Leather-Oil-100ml/152836834522 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cherry-Blossom-Waxed-Leather-Oil-100ml/152836834522)


You may also find some Nikwax Footwear Cleaning Gel will come in handy.


Thanks for the guide, I have my boot fitting this sunday at Whalleys. This guide will be useful to help protect whatever I buy, I've been looking at the Altberg Nordkapps which seem pretty cool, but I'll wait and see what they suggest and I'll let you know what I get, thanks again
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 16:51:02, 13/09/19
I've had various Altberg models - Fremington, Malham, Tethera, Nordkapp and Mallerstang and the build quality of all of them has been excellent. The higher rubber rand on the Nordkapps will provide better protection against scuffs and scrapes to the toe area and I'm surprised Altberg haven't introduced the same higher rand to their other models.

I decided to wax my Nordkapps as I find it makes cleaning and ongoing maintenance a lot easier and less time consuming and also provides a better level of water resistance rather than using Leder-Bok or other waterproofing sprays. A couple of coats of a soft creamy wax like Meindl Sport Wax or a leather conditioner such as Berghaus Conditioning Cream will soon flatten the brushed finish of the nubuck leather turning it into a smooth leather finish. Once that's done it is then followed by using Leder Gris Extreme and Leder Gris Original providing the necessary pre-wear impregnation as explained in Whalley Warm & Dry's instruction leaflet above.

Be aware that Altberg's measuring and fitting system has a reputation for being very close fitting. Some customers find it too close fitting and find they need to go up a full size or a width fitting (instead of the half size Altberg recommend) to achieve what they consider to be a more comfortable fit. In my opinion I believe most of us have all become so used to making do with badly fitting off the shelf footwear we now have no idea what properly fitting footwear actually feels like. Having said that if you're not completely happy with the fit don't be afraid to insist on trying on a boot half a size bigger or one width fitting wider as doing that will at least give you a comparison of the differing comfort levels which can be achieved. At the end of the day you're paying a lot of money for comfortable boots. The boot fitters can also steam and stretch the boots to custom fit them to get rid of any minor niggles or problem areas as part of the fitting process.

They are not wrong with their measuring and I think they fit them close fitting on the basis that they know that the leather will eventually give a little once they've been worn and the leather has stretched and moulded to the shape of your feet.

It may seem obvious but don't forget to take your normal walking socks and any orthotic insoles which you may have with you.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 20:09:36, 13/09/19
I've had various Altberg models - Fremington, Malham, Tethera, Nordkapp and Mallerstang and the build quality of all of them has been excellent. The higher rubber rand on the Nordkapps will provide better protection against scuffs and scrapes to the toe area and I'm surprised Altberg haven't introduced the same higher rand to their other models.

I decided to wax my Nordkapps as I find it makes cleaning and ongoing maintenance a lot easier and less time consuming and also provides a better level of water resistance rather than using Leder-Bok or other waterproofing sprays. A couple of coats of a soft creamy wax like Meindl Sport Wax or a leather conditioner such as Berghaus Conditioning Cream will soon flatten the brushed finish of the nubuck leather turning it into a smooth leather finish. Once that's done it is then followed by using Leder Gris Extreme and Leder Gris Original providing the necessary pre-wear impregnation as explained in Whalley Warm & Dry's instruction leaflet above.

Be aware that Altberg's measuring and fitting system has a reputation for being very close fitting. Some customers find it too close fitting and find they need to go up a full size or a width fitting (instead of the half size Altberg recommend) to achieve what they consider to be a more comfortable fit. In my opinion I believe most of us have all become so used to making do with badly fitting off the shelf footwear we now have no idea what properly fitting footwear actually feels like. Having said that if you're not completely happy with the fit don't be afraid to insist on trying on a boot half a size bigger or one width fitting wider as doing that will at least give you a comparison of the differing comfort levels which can be achieved. At the end of the day you're paying a lot of money for comfortable boots. The boot fitters can also steam and stretch the boots to custom fit them to get rid of any minor niggles or problem areas as part of the fitting process.

They are not wrong with their measuring and I think they fit them close fitting on the basis that they know that the leather will eventually give a little once they've been worn and the leather has stretched and moulded to the shape of your feet.

It may seem obvious but don't forget to take your normal walking socks and any orthotic insoles which you may have with you.


Yeah the high rubber rands on the nordkapps look pretty good, I've never been into the full leather look but I like the high rands. I've also been looking into other brands in the same price bracket and there's plenty to choose, I wondering if there's any opinions on the brand garmont:


https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15908014/garmont-men-s-pinnacle-gtx-boots-15908014

 
I've not seen many garmonts, but the ones I have seen have been in a more premium price bracket. I'll make sure to take my socks with me! Thanks for the tip   O0

 

 
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:21:48, 13/09/19
My advice is simple - try before you buy, and stick to leather.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:27:44, 13/09/19
@kinkyboots

I think that I will be paying a trip to Whalley sometime this autumn, as my leather Grisport Peaklanders are nearing the end of their life. They've been quite good for an £80 boot, but the soles are wearing out and the lining is shot.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 21:08:57, 13/09/19
I've also been looking into other brands in the same price bracket and there's plenty to choose, I wondering if there's any opinions on the brand garmont:

https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15908014/garmont-men-s-pinnacle-gtx-boots-15908014 (https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15908014/garmont-men-s-pinnacle-gtx-boots-15908014)


I've not seen the Garmont Pinnacle GTX but it's a crampon compatible 3-4 season boot designed for heavy backpacking and mixed mountaineering ideal for UK winter and for summer alpine use not walking on "fairly even" terrain in the Yorkshire Dales with an odd trip elsewhere on more demanding terrain. I'm pretty sure you would find it to be far too stiff and uncomfortable for the type of walking you described in your first post particularly if that involves covering long distances.

Your choice of boot type needs to match the type of walking you do the most. In my opinion you need to be looking for a 3 season boot which has good all round capabilities over a range of terrains. Both the Altberg Nordkapp and Tethera fit the bill and although not specifically rated by Altberg for crampon use both models have been used with C1 flexible crampons in winter conditions by a number of members on here without problems.

Yeah the high rubber rands on the nordkapps look pretty good, I've never been into the full leather look but I like the high rands.

It's really not a matter of whether you are into the full leather look or not.  ;)

It's not a fashion show and it really doesn't matter what they look like as nobody cares - it's about obtaining the best performance and value for your hard earned money!

It's about buying the right type of boot for the type of walking you do most and, provided you maintain them properly, boots that will last.

A fabric or fabric/leather combination boot may last you 1-2 years at most if you are lucky. When the waterproof liner fails (and they all do at some point) the boot becomes useless in wet conditions and needs replacing.

Similarly a suede boot may be fine for use in cold dry or snowy alpine conditions but is useless in the UK's almost permanently wet climate. Suede is difficult to maintain and when it becomes waterlogged it becomes extremely heavy and takes an age to dry.

By contrast a well maintained full leather boot with minimal stitching should last you 5+ years with maybe an odd resole depending on mileage covered. Provided you wax it regularly it will still be waterproof and usable even when the the waterproof lining has failed.

From that I hope you can see that the best value for you is obtained by choosing and buying a full leather boot with minimal stitching.

If you do end up buying the Altberg Nordkapp I would strongly recommend that you decide to wax them as doing that will save you a lot of time and effort maintaining them and increase the life of the boots. Bear in mind that the nubuck 'look' is only designed to attract shoppers who see them on the shelf or website and think they look nice and for no other reason.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: sussamb on 21:52:40, 13/09/19
Must say I'm very happy with my Meindl Bhutan boots, which I've had for a few months now, although they haven't had as much use as I planned  O0
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: richardh1905 on 09:20:43, 14/09/19
It's really not a matter of whether you are into the full leather look or not.  ;)

It's not a fashion show and it really doesn't matter what they look like as nobody cares - it's about obtaining the best performance and value for your hard earned money!

So true - nobody cares once you are on the hill.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: richardh1905 on 09:21:55, 14/09/19
Both the Altberg Nordkapp and Tethera fit the bill and although not specifically rated by Altberg for crampon use both models have been used with C1 flexible crampons in winter conditions by a number of members on here without problems.

Thanks for the info, Kinkyboots; I'll certainly bear that in mind!
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 14:12:04, 16/09/19
So i had my appointment yesterday and I loved the service. I had no idea how much my foot sized changed when I stood up. Turns out I have high arches, and my foot size changes by over a full size when stood up, I also have extra narrow feet too apparently :/ So I was recommended to take the Altberg tetheras, trying them on they seemed a little snug but not too bad. We discussed how the leather would mould to my feet and they would become a little better fitting as time goes on, he even took it to the machine first and did a few adjustments. However walking around in them in the house last night and they felt cripplingly tight, I tried adjusting to the laces somewhat but the pain on top of my foot was quite bad. It does say on the paperwork i was given if you are not happy and you haven't walked outside in them you can take them back. To be honest I'm set on a pair of altbergs but I don't think i can use these, and the guy said others would be no good, though i did try the nordkapps and they felt a little better in the shop. I am wondering if I should have been given extra narrow or not. I'm not second guessing the guy, I thought they seemed very knowledgeable, but I'm not sure I could walk very far in these! what do you recommend?
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: ninthace on 14:19:38, 16/09/19
There's snug and there's too tight.  Phone in the first instance then take them back.  In my experience well fitted boots feel right straight away or at least within an hour of first wearing.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 14:28:41, 16/09/19
There's snug and there's too tight.  Phone in the first instance then take them back.  In my experience well fitted boots feel right straight away or at least within an hour of first wearing.


Yeah I read that again earlier and that's what I thought. Thing is I have plenty of toe room, I can wiggle them about and they dont touch the front. they are secure around the sides, however the top of my foot is where it really hurts. When I wiggle my toes I can feel the tendons on top catch on something, It's weird to describe. Feeling the tongue inside the but it feels smooth enough with nothing getting caught up. I also had some slight heel discomfort too but that wasn't too bad. Overall the boot is just generally a tight fit but apparently this is meant to be the case?
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 14:42:05, 16/09/19
I found the trick to getting a comfortable fit in mine is not to over tighten them. Divide the boot lacing into 2 separate sections and keep the lower lacing up to the locking lace hooks fairly slack and the higher lacing above the locking lace hooks fairly tight. The other thing you could possibly try is wearing a thinner walking sock as it's amazing the differance a slightly thinner sock can make to the fit and comfort.

As ninthace point's out if they don't feel right after 10-15 minutes of being on your feet they're not right for you and probably never will be. Ideally after that first 10-15 minutes of being on your feet you should begin to forget they're even on your feet.

If you have any doubts at all and are not happy take them straight back and try on both the Tethera in a narrow width and the Nordkapp again but don't forget correct lacing tension is the key to achieving a comfortable fit. I think a lot of people make the mistake of over tightening new boots.

I have narrow feet and find the Nordkapp (even though it's a medium fit and supposedly too wide for me) to be a much more comfortable fit than the Tethera in a narrow width for my feet and the bonus for me is my toes have more wiggle room.

Don't forget Whalley Warm & Dry are closed on Mondays.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 14:59:53, 16/09/19
I found the trick to getting a comfortable fit in mine is not to over tighten them. Divide the boot lacing into 2 separate sections and keep the lower lacing up to the locking lace hooks fairly slack and the higher lacing above the locking lace hooks fairly tight. The other thing you could possibly try is wearing a thinner walking sock as it's amazing the differance a slightly thinner sock can make to the fit and comfort.

As ninthace point's out if they don't feel right after 10-15 minutes of being on your feet they're not right for you and probably never will be. Ideally after that first 10-15 minutes of being on your feet you should begin to forget they're even on your feet.

If you have any doubts at all and are not happy take them straight back and try on both the Tethera in a narrow width and the Nordkapp again but don't forget correct lacing tension is the key to achieving a comfortable fit. I think a lot of people make the mistake of over tightening new boots.

I have narrow feet and find the Nordkapp (even though it's a medium fit and supposedly too wide for me) to be a much more comfortable fit than the Tethera in a narrow width for my feet and the bonus for me is my toes have more wiggle room.

Don't forget Whalley Warm & Dry are closed on Mondays.


Yeah when he first laced them up for me, It was like a straight jacket for my foot, far too tight. I have tried varying levels of tension last night on the lower section as you mentioned however only for an hour or so. It always seemed to be be somewhat painful, I'll give it another try tonight, If I'm not happy then I'll give them a call first thing Tuesday. To be honest i preferred the fit of the Nordkapps over the tethera too, but the guy was adamant that I should go with the Tetheras. These are actually extra narrow, 8.5 but my foot is right up against the side. I tried on some Skarpas too (Can't remember the model) and they we're super comfortable though not leather and more expensive than the Tetheras! My socks are probably on the thinner side, they're not the thick thermal socks, they're proper walking socks from tog 24. The guy said they were "Spot on". I'll see how I get on later. Thanks again for the advise
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 15:29:44, 16/09/19
To be honest i preferred the fit of the Nordkapps over the tethera too, but the guy was adamant that I should go with the Tetheras.

Maybe there's something in that?  ;)

That's why I said earlier that if you're not completely happy with the fit don't be afraid to insist on trying on a boot half a size bigger or one width fitting wider as doing that will at least give you a comparison of the differing comfort levels which can be achieved.

You may need to be quite firm and insist on an exchange rather than letting them try to talk you into allowing them to steam and stretch the Tetheras to try to improve the fit.

As I said earlier the big bonus the Nordkapp has over the Tethera in it's design is the higher rubber rand which will help to keep the inevitable scuffs and scrapes to the front of the toe area to a minimum.

If possible try to visit midweek when it's quieter and they have more time for each customer and everything is less rushed.

Next time you are looking for walking socks have a look at Bridgedale's range. They make a huge range in different types and thicknesses. Not cheap but arguably the best and come with a 3 year guarantee.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Mel on 15:49:07, 16/09/19
To be honest i preferred the fit of the Nordkapps over the tethera too, but the guy was adamant that I should go with the Tetheras. These are actually extra narrow, 8.5 but my foot is right up against the side.

Maybe there's something in that?  ;)



Agreed. 
 
Also bear in mind that your feet swell on a walk so if they feel tight now and tweaking the lacing isn’t making it feel any better, imagine how they’ll feel after a 10 mile walk.

Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 22:26:52, 16/09/19
Trying it out now, tweaking the lacing helps somewhat, they do feel more comfortable when I'm sat in them, but by loosening the lower laces, I'm now getting heel movement when I walk. Tightened them up again, my heel isn't moving now but they're back to been uncomfortable. mostly the discomfort is over the top of the foot mostly, they feel a little tight around the ankle too, I can adjust that with the laces, but again my foot moves about then. It just seems the whole boots feels too small of a fit, although I have plenty of wiggle room around the toes, it's everywhere else :/
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 08:16:37, 17/09/19
It's what they feel like when you're on your feet not when you're sat in them that matters. Heel lift is obviously something you need to avoid at all costs as it will inevitably lead to heel blisters due to friction.

I would take them back and explain the problem areas as honestly as you can and what you've tried so far and any difference (good or bad) that it made to the overall fit.

Be guided by the boot fitters knowledge, expertise and advice as there are a number of things they can do to improve the fit ranging from using different lacing techniques, replacement insoles, adding small heel lifts under the existing insole to raise the heel slightlly in the boot to prevent any unwanted heel lift, using a rubbing bar or steaming and stretching the leather to ease problem areas giving you more room particularly over the top of the foot where you say the problem is worst. Although some of it sounds quite drastic it's perfectly normal for these type of adjustments to need to be made and it will not damage the boot in any way. With boots the smallest change can make a huge difference to the overall fit and comfort.

Just bear in mind that the new leather will soften and conform to your feet over time and that stretching the leather is a one way process and any changes made cannot be undone.

Make sure that you wear the boots and walk around the shop for a good 15 minutes after any adjustments have been made and don't leave until you are 100% happy with the fit.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 10:19:56, 19/09/19
Sorry I've been off the radar, works been a little manic. Been trying the boots on for an hour or so each night this week and they do feel a lot better. The pain across the top of my foot has gone now, although I can still feel it there I have prescribed this to the fact I have boney feet, it may be that leather boots are not a good match for me but equally I want to give then a shot anyway. As you said, they will mould to mny foot over time and it's best to listen to Whalleys expert advise, and their advise was the extra narrow Tetheras would be much better fit than the others i tried. If I find I am just too uncomfortable after a few walks, i'll chalk it down to experience then look into some softer fabric style boots instead. Anyway thank to all for your advise, and happy walking  :)
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 12:04:51, 19/09/19
Thanks for the update.

I'm sure that the more you can wear them and particularly walk in them the easier they will become over time to the point where you will hopefully not even notice that they are on your feet.

Having said that there's nothing stopping you calling into Whalley Warm & Dry without an appointment at any time to see if they can adjust or ease them slightly for you or if they can recommend something else which might help you. This would be the solution I would recommend for you if it doesn't fully resolve itself with a bit more wear and other than a bit of time it won't cost you anything.

If I find I am just too uncomfortable after a few walks, i'll chalk it down to experience then look into some softer fabric style boots instead.

The problem with that is that no other manufacturer that I'm aware of makes any boots (either leather or fabric) which are specifically made to fit extra narrow feet.

Any other boot would require compromise to achieve a comfortable fit by maybe padding out with extra socks or using volume reducers under the insoles to take out any extra unwanted volume.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: ninthace on 14:27:47, 19/09/19
One comment on Altberg boots.  I bought my first pair of Tetheras at the factory in Richmond.  When they had to go back to be resoled after 2100miles, I bought a second pair from Taunton Leisure so I could keep going and have a spare pair.  I can now wear both pairs interchangeably and the difference in feel between the two is negligible.  I would add that the second pair has done over 530 miles and the uppers are still virtually showroom.  In short, in my experience, Altberg boots are made to a consistent and reliable standard which means, unlike some brands, if you find a pair that suits you, a the next pair will be just as good. 
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Mel on 17:38:51, 19/09/19
.... The pain across the top of my foot has gone now, although I can still feel it there I have prescribed this to the fact I have boney feet, it may be that leather boots are not a good match for me but equally I want to give then a shot anyway. As you said, they will mould to mny foot over time and it's best to listen to Whalleys expert advise, and their advise was the extra narrow Tetheras would be much better fit than the others i tried. If I find I am just too uncomfortable after a few walks, i'll chalk it down to experience then look into some softer fabric style boots instead. Anyway thank to all for your advise, and happy walking  :)


Or you could just return them and ask for the same size in a wider fitting.  (I think kinkyboots mentioned that Whalleys err on the side of snug/narrow recommendations).


If I was paying a couple of hundred quid for a pair of boots plus a fitting/consultation fee then I wouldn't be expecting the amount of niggles you're experiencing simply by walking round the house for an hour at a time in them. 


Change them now.  It's your money and they're your feet.  If the boots don't feel "quite right" then they're probably not right for your feet.  Don't blame your "bony feet" on a badly fitting boot just because they've been recommended by a specialist fitter.  Definitely go back and have a chat with them.  If they're remotely professional they will understand that you need what feels right for you. 


Sorry, but I really think you'll experience problems on a walk if your boots feel too snug now.



Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: pauldawes on 17:54:32, 19/09/19


Sorry, but I really think you'll experience problems on a walk if your boots feel too snug now.


I agree.(With all your post, not just bit quoted.)


I must admit until I read your post it hadn’t registered with me that all these problems were all experienced while just wearing the boots round house.


I don’t buy notion that fit and feel will radically improve once bedded in...they may improve a bit, but not enough to become really comfortable on long walks, if problems like this are experienced in house.


The advantage of going back now...before boots have been worn outside is that a reasonable shop will at very least give a generous refund. Once worn outside, more problematic.

Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: richardh1905 on 19:17:20, 19/09/19
I would return the boots whilst you still can, Chris - they clearly are not right for your feet.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: ninthace on 19:21:53, 19/09/19
I would return the boots whilst you still can, Chris - they clearly are not right for your feet.
I concur.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: kinkyboots on 19:46:45, 19/09/19
Or you could just return them and ask for the same size in a wider fitting.  (I think kinkyboots mentioned that Whalleys err on the side of snug/narrow recommendations).

From what Chris_663 said I don't think a wider fitting boot is the answer as he said if he even slackens the lower lacing slightly he immediately gets heel lift so as well as having extra narrow feet he must also have very narrow heels. A wider fitting boot will also have a slightly wider fitting heel which will just add to the problem. The bootfitter recommended the Tethera in extra narrow rather than the Nordkapp which is a medium fit because he felt the Nordkapp was too wide for his feet.

From what he describes I think Whalley Warm & Dry just need to steam and stretch the leather around the tongue area over the top of his feet to take any pressure he is feeling off that area. It should be no more than a 10-15 minute job and from my personal experience it will make a world of difference to the overall fit and comfort of the boots.

I would agree that Chris_663 really needs to go back to Whalley Warm & Dry sooner rather than later so that the issue can be resolved once and for all with professional help and advice.

Incidentally it's not Whalley Warm & Dry who err on the side of snug/narrow fit it's actually Alberg's measuring and fitting system which they use that does that. The staff at Whalley Warm & Dry were trained by the staff at the Altberg factory.
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Mel on 21:40:59, 19/09/19
The thing is, a wider fitting (and potential wider heel/lift) could easily be rectified by the heel lock lacing technique you mentioned in an earlier reply where the lacing can be as slack as you like over the forefoot and is locked in at the heel (I use this method myself if I wear boots). 


A wider fitting would also help resolve the discomfort felt at the top of the foot (the bony feet feeling) because the broadness of the foot wouldn't be pulling the leather uppers laterally, causing pressure on the top of the foot. 


Just because the WW&D staff said they should be the perfect fit for Chris, doesn't mean they are (and they clearly aren't).  Particularly if a second round of steaming/stretching is required to "make them fit".  This simply tells me that they "do not fit".  Granted, you can't fault the customer service but this should also include listening to the customer when they say the boots feel too snug and offer alternative suggestions which feel right for the customer.


With all that taken into consideration, I stand (in my very comfy Meindls) by what I said above  :)



Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Chris_663 on 21:48:01, 19/09/19
Let's not make this into an argument. I'll give them a call and see what they say, I think all the advise I have got from here is sound and its been very helpful for me. Whalley were great and helped me realise one simply doesn't just buy boots without understanding a few things first, so thank you all for the contributions and to kinky boots for recommending a great shop and continued feedback on my requirements. Forum mods you may now lock this thread, if that's what you do here  :)
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Mel on 21:52:18, 19/09/19
No arguing here from me. Simply clarifying why I said what I said when questioned by KB.  I hope you get sorted and have many happy miles of walking  O0
Title: Re: Which boot?
Post by: Islandplodder on 07:18:06, 20/09/19
Or you may be the kind of person, like me, who simply doesn't get on with Altbergs.  I have had a couple of pairs, I gave one away, and hardly ever wear the other.  Reading this thread, I think part of the problem is that snug fit they recommend, which seems to get more snug with age, rather than less.     
In my experience boots which aren't quite right in the shop don't get any better.  You should try them on and think 'these are my boots' . The days of having to break them in are long gone.