Author Topic: Wild camping novice  (Read 7886 times)

fernman

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #30 on: 09:28:23, 14/04/18 »
The Docooler ultralight (18.1 grams) Titanium windshield costs just £7.99 on Amazon...Hardly ludicrously expensive!

My post specifically referred to the Optimus one, which clips under the 'ring' around the valve on the gas cartridge.

I now see that and the Primus one (same company?) are circa £14, though I swear it was double that when I read about them last year or whenever it was.

NeilC

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #31 on: 20:10:40, 16/04/18 »
I have an Optimus clip on. It wasn't super expensive but it's alu not titanium so no the lightest thing.  It is good though. Does a great job and no fiddling about.


I did use it with a BRS Ti stove but the whilst very light it was only good for boiling water. Doesn't spread the heat enough and so burns anything else like porridge.

marmottungsten

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #32 on: 12:47:36, 17/04/18 »
I have an Optimus clip on. It wasn't super expensive but it's alu not titanium so no the lightest thing.  It is good though. Does a great job and no fiddling about.


I did use it with a BRS Ti stove but the whilst very light it was only good for boiling water. Doesn't spread the heat enough and so burns anything else like porridge.


I think I may have found a solution?...An even lighter stove!  It's called the Esbit ST11.5-Ti...Weighing in at just just 11.5g, (less than half the weight of the BRS!) it is is currently the lightest folding Titanium stove in the world.  It uses compact and lightweight solid fuel (Hexamine) tablets/cubes, rather than more heavy and bulky gas canisters like the BRS.  Unlike gas canister stoves, Hexamine tablets still work well at high altitudes. There is one downside, it is not as powerful as the BRS.  In ideal conditions, my BRS can boil 500ml of water in about 2 minutes flat, with it on full power (and that is in a Titanium pot...It would be even faster with an Aluminium pot) but apparently the Esbit can take up to 7 minutes to do the same (depending on the size of the solid fuel tablet you use).  However, this is exactly why it may solve the hotspot/food burning problem so prevalent to the BRS when using Ti pots...The gentler heat and the wider spread of the flame from the tablet should mean far more even heating across the base of a Ti pot, virtually eliminating the problem.  As for the tablets...Esbit have designed the tablet holder in the ST11.5 to take their own brand tablets, which are rectangular and come in two sizes (4g and 14g).  The 4g tablets are usually available in packs of 20 and the 14g tablets in either 6  or 12 packs.  The 14g tablets have a burn time of 12 minutes per tablet, which is plently to prepare a hot pasta meal with.  However, I found Esbit's tablets to be expensive and so I looked for cheaper alternatives.  I found that you could buy 80-100 circular tablets in bulk size, (which can also be used to power model steam engines) and save money but I chose to buy 48 circular tablets made by a company caller Striker instead, because they were cheaper than Esbit tablets and they had several good reviews...Some reviewers said the Esbit tablets crumble easily and smell of fish, but the Striker tablets do neither, and that was a good enough recommendation for me.  As for how to store the tablets...One reviewer mentioned that they could get 9 of the circular Striker tablets into an empty Berocca tube (or similar), which is conventiently small, lightweight and airtight, so I plan to do the same.  I have just bought an Esbit ST11.5-Ti on ebay for £13.80, but have since seen them going for under £10 elsewhere, so whilst the ST11.5 will certainly help to reduce the weight of your cooking kit, it won't break the bank either.  I will let you know if it solves the hotspot problem after it arrives and I have had a chance to play with it.
« Last Edit: 12:52:41, 17/04/18 by marmottungsten »

alan de enfield

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #33 on: 13:06:02, 17/04/18 »


I think I may have found a solution?...An even lighter stove!  It's called the Esbit ST11.5-Ti...Weighing in at just just 11.5g, (less than half the weight of the BRS!) it is is currently the lightest folding Titanium stove in the world.  It uses compact and lightweight solid fuel (Hexamine) tablets/cubes, rather than more heavy and bulky gas canisters like the BRS.


The 'problem' you may find is that hexamine has almost half of the heat output than LPG, so instead of carrying 250g of gas, you now need to carry 500g of Hexy. This rather defeats the object of saving 30 grams on stove weight (My gas stove weighs 40g). The saving that you will make is that :
a) You only to add the weight of a 'plastic tub' rather than an Ali gas canister
b) You can take much less 'fuel' (or, just enough for the day)


The heat output of Gas is 0.0142 KwH per gram
The heat output of Hexamine is 0.0084 KwH per gram


I was always a confirmed Hexy user but with it taking up to 12-15 minutes to boil 500ml and just 4 minutes to boil 500ml by gas I am now 'converted'
Because you are heating more slowly you actually lose heat as the water / food is cooling for longer, whilst you are heating it from the bottom, so it takes longer, so cools for longer, so takes longer (hopefully you know wht I mean - I've not explained it very well)


Another advantage with gas is that you can 'turn it down' to simmer - with Hexy, its 'all or nothing'.


If you are going for several days, you could end up carrying more weight, and, not be able to re-stock (I have found most garages / petrol stations sell gas cartridges - or, even newsagents  if you have the cylinder converter  - £2 from ebay)

beefy

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #34 on: 13:41:17, 17/04/18 »
For a long time when I went out camping I used a very cheap sleeping bag supplemented with some warmth layers. I also used to use a foam mat which became 2 foam mats for extra comfort. I managed to survive for quite a number of years without having to spend a lot of money for a bag or mat. To the Willow the OP, what you buy now may not really suit you and you might have to try a few mats or stoves to find the one that suits you best.

I hate the thick mats, like the one beefy has, I think its an exped synmat, I find them very uncomfortable to lie on but beefy loves it. We are all different. I have become a bit more decrepit in my old age so I have progressed to a Thermarest Prolite and a more expensive sleeping bag for a bit of extra comfort. I use a foam mat underneath for extra insulation. This combination suits me but won't suit everybody.

This is only 15cm high so may not be tall enough for a stove that screws on to the top of a gas canister depending on how big a gas canister you use. It would be great for remote canister stoves, at that weight I might get one myself for our remote. They sell a 19cm high wind shield so this may be a better height?
A few very valid points there April,  that seem to have been overlooked ....
I'm slightly amused by this thread, being a regular wild camper, I carry 3.4kg of photographic equipment, on top of the equipment that is essential,
Because I enjoy photography
Does one or two extra grams here and there really make a difference?
As you mentioned to me last weekend's April, our windshield isn't the lightest one, and if the wind is strong enough it blows it into the stove, potentially knocking the whole thing over,  should we be looking at heavier windshields to compensate  ;D
My advice is this,
If your a beginner, just borrow or buy some cheap gear and go out and try wild camping,
If you enjoy it, do your research and invest in some better gear,   8)
Just go out and enjoy  :)

Leave only footprints, take only photographs, kill only time ...

April

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #35 on: 14:06:42, 17/04/18 »
I carry 3.4kg of photographic equipment, on top of the equipment that is essential,
Because I enjoy photography

Are you going to take all of it when we go to Moffat for 4 days wild camping next month?  :D
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beefy

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #36 on: 14:08:54, 17/04/18 »
Are you going to take all of it when we go to Moffat for 4 days wild camping next month?  :D
Of course I will, I might have an extra lens to carry too,,, :D
Leave only footprints, take only photographs, kill only time ...

Maggot

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #37 on: 19:42:53, 17/04/18 »

I think I may have found a solution?...An even lighter stove!

 
Unlike gas canister stoves, Hexamine tablets still work well at high altitudes.    



The other difference is that, if you are really stuck, you can eat hexamine tablets and they taste just like Kendal mint cake.  Interestingly it is a lesser known fact that mint cake burns as well as hexamine.


Strange but true eh  O0

alan de enfield

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #38 on: 19:53:47, 17/04/18 »


 Interestingly it is a lesser known fact that mint cake burns as well as hexamine.


Strange but true eh  O0


Nope - well known to the 'older generation'.


We had open fires and if a fire was reluctant to burn you threw a cup full of sugar on it.

marmottungsten

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #39 on: 10:20:48, 20/04/18 »

The 'problem' you may find is that hexamine has almost half of the heat output than LPG, so instead of carrying 250g of gas, you now need to carry 500g of Hexy. This rather defeats the object of saving 30 grams on stove weight (My gas stove weighs 40g). The saving that you will make is that :
a) You only to add the weight of a 'plastic tub' rather than an Ali gas canister
b) You can take much less 'fuel' (or, just enough for the day)


The heat output of Gas is 0.0142 KwH per gram
The heat output of Hexamine is 0.0084 KwH per gram


I was always a confirmed Hexy user but with it taking up to 12-15 minutes to boil 500ml and just 4 minutes to boil 500ml by gas I am now 'converted'
Because you are heating more slowly you actually lose heat as the water / food is cooling for longer, whilst you are heating it from the bottom, so it takes longer, so cools for longer, so takes longer (hopefully you know wht I mean - I've not explained it very well)


Another advantage with gas is that you can 'turn it down' to simmer - with Hexy, its 'all or nothing'.


If you are going for several days, you could end up carrying more weight, and, not be able to re-stock (I have found most garages / petrol stations sell gas cartridges - or, even newsagents  if you have the cylinder converter  - £2 from ebay)


Hi Alan, I got my new Esbit stove yesterday, along with 2 packs of 24 fuel tablets (The tablet brand is actually Strider, not Striker) and after work I tried it out.  I placed one Strider tablet on the stove, put my Ti windshield around it, lit it, and put my 1 litre Ti pot on it, containing 1 cup of water (about 350ml) and set my stop watch going.
 The water got got enough to let off steam but it got nowhere near boiling (no visible bubbles at all) and the tablet burnt out completely after 12 minutes and 17 seconds...Impressive really, considering the Strider tablet is a lot smaller than a 14g Esbit brand tablet, and when you consider the latter is supposed to have a burn time of 12 minutes too.
 Seems the reviews were right...There is no smell of fish with the Strider tablets and you need to use two at a time to boil water, one simply isn't enough.  I would say one tablet got it just hot enough to make coffee or hot chocolate.
 As for storing the tablets...I managed to get 8 tablets in an empty airtight Berocca tube...Actually 9 could go in the tube, but this did not allow the lid to fully press on.  I noted it was possible to modify the bottom of the lid with a knife to allow a ninth tablet to fit in with the lid fully on, but I was happy to leave it as it is.  Also, in case the Strider tablet produced soot on the bottom of my Ti pot, I had wiped a thin layer of washing up liquid on the bottom of the pot before I did the test.  There was a little soot on the bottom afterwards, but, nowhere near as much as produced by an Esbit tablet though (from what I have seen on youtube) and it wiped off easily using a wetted sheet of kitchen roll paper, leaving the bottom pristinly clean again. Of course, having to carry a little washing up liquid with me every time I want to use the stove will reduce the weight saved by leaving the gas stove at home, but you don't need much of the latter so it will still end up being lighter than carrying my gas stove with at least one steel gas canister.
The smallest gas canister available for my stove weighs 172g on its own!  On the other hand, 16 Strider fuel tablets in two Berocca tubes, weigh in at only 143 grams...The 16 Strider tablets would definitely be enough to make 8 meals, or to boil 8 cups of water, but I don't know how long the gas would last in such a small canister as I have only ever used larger canisters, that are at least 2-3 times the size or more. 
One more thing to consider Alan, is that you can't carry your gas canisters with you on a plane, but you can with solid fuel tablets.  So if you rely solely on using a gas stove then when you get to your destination, you will often find yourself hunting around for days to find suitable gas canisters, and sometimes they are impossible to find at your destination...take Venice in Italy, for example...gas canisters to fit my stove are simply not available there...You have to travel onto the mainland, about an hour away by bus (many hours on foot), to get to the nearest stockist.  Whereas being able to carry your fuel with you on the plane, as you can with solid fuel tablets, means when you get out of the airport you are ready to boil up some water and make a nice beverage or a meal, without having to spend hours, or even days, finding gas.
« Last Edit: 10:50:01, 20/04/18 by marmottungsten »

alan de enfield

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #40 on: 10:50:27, 20/04/18 »


Hi Alan, I got my new Esbit stove yesterday, along with 2 packs of 24 fuel tablets (The tablet brand is actually Strider, not Striker) and after work I tried it out.  I placed one Strider tablet on the stove, put my Ti windshield around it, lit it, and put my 1 litre Ti pot on it, containing 1 cup of water (about 350ml) and set my stop watch going.  The water got got enough to let off steam but it got nowhere near boiling (no visible bubbles at all) and the tablet burnt out completely after 12 minutes and 17 seconds...Impressive really, considering the Strider tablet is a lot smaller than a 14g Esbit brand tablet, and when you consider the latter is supposed to have a burn time of 12 minutes too.  Seems the reviews were right...There is no smell of fish with the Strider tablets and you need to use two at a time to boil water, one simply isn't enough.  I would say one tablet got it just hot enough to make coffee or hot chocolate.  As for storing the tablets...I managed to get 8 tablets in an empty airtight Berocca tube...Actually 9 could go in the tube, but this did not allow the lid to fully press on.  I noted it was possible to modify the bottom of the lid with a knife to allow a ninth tablet to fit in with the lid fully on, but I was happy to leave it as it is.  Also, in case the Strider tablet produced soot on the bottom of my Ti pot, I had wiped a thin layer of washing up liquid on the bottom of the pot before I did the test.  There was a little soot on the bottom afterwards, but, nowhere near as much as produced by an Esbit tablet though (from what I have seen on youtube) and it wiped off easily using a wetted sheet of kitchen roll paper, leaving the bottom pristinly clean again. Having to carry a little washing up liquid with me every time I want to use the stove will of course reduce the weight saved by leaving the gas stove at home, but you don't need much so it will still end up being lighter than carrying my gas stove with at least one steel gas canister. The smallest gas canister available for my stove weighs 172g on its own!  16 Strider fuel tablets in two Berocca tubes, weigh only 143 grams...The 16 Strider tablets would definitely be enough to make 8 meals, or to boil 8 cups of water, but I don't know how long the gas would last in such a small canister as I have only ever used larger canisters, at leats 2-3 times the size.  One more thing to consider, is that you can't carry your gas canisters with you on a plane, but you can with solid fuel tablets.  So if you rely solely on using a gas stove then when you get to your destination, you will often find yourself hunting around for days to find suitable gas canisters, and sometimes they are impossible to find at your destination...take Venice in Italy, for example...gas canisters to fit my stove are simply not available there...You have to travel onto the mainland, about an hour away by bus, many hours on foot, to get to the nearest stockist.  Whereas being able to carry your fuel with you on the plane, as you can with solid fuel tablets, means when you get out of the airport you are ready to boil up some water and make a nice beverage or a meal, without having to spend hours, or even days, finding gas.


Thanks for that 'report'.
Pretty much mirrors my experiences of Hexy.
It just doesn't seem to have enough 'ooomp' to get that last couple of degrees to get a rolling boil.


As you say - the tablets are convenient to carry and a day (or so) 'worth' in a small tube' takes up little space or weight.

FOX160

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Re: Wild camping novice
« Reply #41 on: 20:32:27, 10/05/18 »
Hello!


I’m planning on trying wild camping for the first time having been inspired by the many posts on this site! I am looking for a few tips in equipment. I have tent and sleeping bags sorted. Looking for advice on sleeping mats, my budget is £100 for two. Also suggestions for a easy to use stove.


Many thanks!


With your low budget it maybe wise to look at the walking forums for good quality second hand where people are selling due to dropping their pack weight.

 

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