Author Topic: My pole experience ( not for the faint hearted or those short of time)  (Read 8288 times)

sussamb

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Jon, I'm sorry but don't agree with your energy theory. Yes you have a certain amount of energy in your legs, but without poles you have wasted energy in the upper body. I don't think poles help in increasing pace, but the dispersion of energy throughout the body, means I'm able to walk further in a day with poles than without.

Well energy isn't being wasted, energy can only be used when you're doing something, so if you're not pounding your arms up and down to use the poles you're not using that energy.  You clearly though feel you can walk further with poles than without, I don't yet see that with my efforts so far.  I also know through many activities during my Army career that how far you can actually walk is more a mental thing than physical, your mind often wants to give up when you still have strength/energy to continue.  Eventually though no matter how strong you are mentally exhaustion will stop you, the question in my mind hence the reason I started this thread is whether poles actually help you walk further/faster or whether it's simply an illusion.  It seems many here feel they help with balance etc and I can see that, but I'm not yet convinced they can help me walk further/faster  :)
Where there's a will ...

ninthace

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But when your legs were totally shot your upper body and especially you arms still worked?  This is unused energy - you have not brought all your muscles into play.  As I said before - efficiency.  Your arms are helping your legs (provided you are using your poles for propulsion - not everybody does)
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Rob Goes Walking

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From https://www.thebmc.co.uk/hill-skills-using-trekking-poles :

When using poles as much as 20% of a walker’s bodyweight is taken on the arms during each step down, which reduces the stress on the lower body - especially the knee joint. For a 12˝ stone (80kgs) man that’s 2˝stone (16kgs) per step down. On a long steep descent of 1,000m this equates to a saving of approximately 20 metric tonnes (10 tonnes per leg!) of cumulative stress on all of the joints in the lower body and significantly less wear and tear on those all important knee joints. The reduction is even more important if you regularly carry a heavy rucksack or are an outdoor professional.

It also mentions posture like Mike said.

Dread

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I think that if you take up poles later in life, like i did, it is harder to get used to. Ideally, the poles will become a natural addition to your walking style but it does takes time. In my case, probably 50 to 70 miles. You need to get to the point where you don't have to think about them, some people never do. There is a reason why so many people on multi day hikes/races use them.

sussamb

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But when your legs were totally shot your upper body and especially you arms still worked?  This is unused energy - you have not brought all your muscles into play.  As I said before - efficiency.  Your arms are helping your legs (provided you are using your poles for propulsion - not everybody does)


Well everything still worked, even when I was 'shot' as you put it, thankfully not literally  ;)
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sussamb

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From https://www.thebmc.co.uk/hill-skills-using-trekking-poles :

When using poles as much as 20% of a walker’s bodyweight is taken on the arms during each step down, which reduces the stress on the lower body - especially the knee joint. For a 12˝ stone (80kgs) man that’s 2˝stone (16kgs) per step down. On a long steep descent of 1,000m this equates to a saving of approximately 20 metric tonnes (10 tonnes per leg!) of cumulative stress on all of the joints in the lower body and significantly less wear and tear on those all important knee joints. The reduction is even more important if you regularly carry a heavy rucksack or are an outdoor professional.

It also mentions posture like Mike said.


Yep, all that I understand  O0
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ninthace

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Well everything still worked, even when I was 'shot' as you put it, thankfully not literally  ;)
Look at it this way.  Now you no longer have to turn rounds into empty cases it will give you something to do with your hands. :)
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sussamb

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That's true  ;D
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Rob Goes Walking

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Eventually though no matter how strong you are mentally exhaustion will stop you

Only for a few minutes sit down or a few hours sleep if you're not climbing steep hills and don't walk super fast like you! It was the pain in my feet that made me take the most (short) rest breaks rather than exhaustion on the long walk I felt compelled to undertake. You can make do with surprisingly little rest when you think it's necessary.

archaeoroutes

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But when your legs were totally shot your upper body and especially you arms still worked?  This is unused energy - you have not brought all your muscles into play.
I completely agree with what I think you mean, but the vocabulary may be the root of the disagreement seen in some of these posts.


sussamb is correct that any wastage of energy from not using sticks is minimal (ignoring posture changes as these can be achieved without sticks).
The phenomenon you are describing is to do with muscle fatigue, which is caused by a build-up of metabolites and reduction of substrates. By sharing the work between more muscle groups you can work longer before this effect reaches the same level as just using legs.


For most people, it is muscle fatigue that gets them before they run out of energy. Energy can be topped up by eating throughout the day, but the rate of removal of metabolites isn't so readily fixed (depending mostly on age and fitness).
And the stopping point is for the vast majority of people a mental limit. This could be a very sensible, reasoned decision that it is unsafe to continue, or it could be 'giving up'. Knowing when to push and when that would be dangerous is a large part of coaching.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

fernman

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The phenomenon you are describing is to do with muscle fatigue, which is caused by a build-up of metabolites and reduction of substrates. By sharing the work between more muscle groups you can work longer before this effect reaches the same level as just using legs.

For most people, it is muscle fatigue that gets them before they run out of energy. Energy can be topped up by eating throughout the day, but the rate of removal of metabolites isn't so readily fixed (depending mostly on age and fitness).

So what is the solution for muscle fatigue? I'm assuming you'll say plenty of rest and sleep.

archaeoroutes

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So what is the solution for muscle fatigue? I'm assuming you'll say plenty of rest and sleep.


Sleep, hydration and diet are the main things in the short term.
There are lots of claims (possible true to some degree and in extremes) about fancy muscle shakes and protein bars. Unless you are really pressed for size and weight for carrying, for instance you're doing a mountain marathon, then they're probably not worth it. Instead look to up your carbs over the days before to ensure plenty of glycogen is stored in your body (one of the substrates I mentioned earlier). Keep up a balanced diet full of protein, fruit and veg. One of the main things protein products provide is casein, which is a readily-absorbed phosphoprotein - but remember this is present is decent quantities in meat, dairy products and pasta, so just include them.
Keep topping up during the day of the walk. Also drink enough. In extreme cases of heat or exercise you might want to consider electrolyte-rich drinks (or include sugary and salty snacks in your food).


Now, if you want to get a bit more serious about it, consider your clothing. Muscle compression is now a big thing in sport because it allows the athletes to perform for longer. It really works. Running 10km across the fells in compression leggings and my legs are a little tired, I actually fail in the lungs before the legs (my asthma). Doing the same route in loose trousers and my calves and thighs are burning out by the end.
The difference isn't as easy to notice in walking, but after a day wearing tight calf socks I feel fresher than wearing loose socks.


Then there's warming-up. Not something we every really think of doing as walkers. But perhaps we should - certainly if pushing our limits physically.


In extremis, you could use anti-inflamatories such as ibuprofen. But, seriously, only use drugs to get you out of trouble - perhaps a case where its a choice between popping a couple of ibuprofen or dialling 999.
There are some foods with anti-inflammatory effects. Unfortunately, most of the guidance on diet in that regard contradicts the needs for high carbohydrates needed for the energy for a hard walk. If this is something you want to consider, look at Omega 3 (not 6) and olive oil, along with the classic antioxidants like VitC.


That's pretty much it for a day walk. But what about the next day? Well, there are some tried-and-tested ways to reduce the longer-term effects of muscle fatigue.
The most effective is the most unpleasant - the ice bath. One of the fixtures at Selection is an inflatable paddling pool behind the medical centre that's filled with iced water each afternoon. Now, I'm not proposing that outside of serious competition. But cold-showering the legs, or paddling in a river are more pleasant alternatives.
Then there's stretching, and the modern trend of rollering, immediately after exercise.
Finally, the nicest but often least practical - getting a massage.


Longer-term, the big thing is training your body correctly. If you want to walk for a whole day in the hills, don't exclusively run 100m sprints. I see so many fit young people flop after a couple of hours because their whole training has been based around 45mins each way. This isn't just a psychological thing - it is to do with the ratios of different types of muscle fibres, metabolic rates, and so on.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

jimbob

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Great advice Archeoroutes.
But I think you forgot to mention pork pies,  scotch eggs and Snickers bars in the dietary advice bit. (Hopefully) ;D
Too little, too late, too bad......

archaeoroutes

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But I think you forgot to mention pork pies,  scotch eggs and Snickers bars in the dietary advice bit. (Hopefully) ;D
Well, in all seriousness, that's a good selection of snacks to include for a day walking.
Pork pies contain a hit of protein, fat and carbohydrate, along with electrolytes. Scotch eggs up the protein and fat, and some research shows there is something in egg yolks that increases the rate of protein synthesis, meaning the amino acids get into the muscles from the blood faster. Snickers provide a massive boost of energy, both quick and slow-release, along with yet more protein.
Now, I don't know about the chocolate in Snickers, but cacao and dark chocolate contain epicatechin, a phytochemical which in rats has been shown to inhibit myostatin and should thus aid muscle growth. I am not aware of any studies that have shown this works in humans, though.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

ninthace

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When I lived in the mountains and spent a lot of time skiing I found the best thing to get rid of the fatigue was to come home and sit in the hot tub until the stars came out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,those were the days - nostalgic sigh!
When I go alpine walking these days I only do day walks (Mrs N prefers it that way and I have been married too long to argue).  I find a spell in the hotel pool and followed by a sauna really gets rid of the stiffness.  At home the best I can manage is a long hot shower followed by a long cold beer.
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