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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: Rob Goes Walking on 12:46:36, 27/04/19

Title: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 12:46:36, 27/04/19
The prospect of kneeling down and taking bearings in my track trousers in this rain in a muddy field isn't thrilling (and to think I used to play rugby, how did I become so woosey) so I had a brainwave and realised there might be more choice of waterproof clothing in my size if I looked at workwear rather than walking clothes.

Question is now should I get waterproof trousers or overtrousers? If my experience with waterproof jackets is anything to go buy I suspect overtrousers but I wanted to hear the forums wisdom before parting with more cash.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 13:00:00, 27/04/19
Both.  Overtrousers for warmer weather when they will spend most of their time in your pack.  Waterproof trousers for the northern winter - they are warmer, less prone to condensation and you are more likely to need them at some point so you might as well set out wearing them.  If it is a choice of one - good quality overtrousers.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 13:08:52, 27/04/19
Thanks ninthace. I need a button on my phone that writes "thanks ninthace" it seems to need tapping very often. This is for now so I'll doubt I'll need the warmth of the one layer solution. The quality of the overtrousers is going to be a bit of a gamble since these workwear brands are mostly unknown. I'll try and send them back under the consumer rights act if they're rubbish.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Jac on 13:35:13, 27/04/19

Yep - waterproof over-trousers. Two layers of warmth if you need it. I seldom wear my waterproof trousers as I find them sweaty on days which turnout better than expected and not as warm on those which turnout colder.


Don't spend too much. Mine are Karrimor and happily cope with a wet day on Dartmoor.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 13:41:51, 27/04/19
Thanks ninthace. I need a button on my phone that writes "thanks ninthace" it seems to need tapping very often.
Nichts zu danken my Padawan
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 13:49:33, 27/04/19
Thanks Jac.

I opted for these (https://www.bigclothing4u.co.uk/kam-big-waterproof-trousers-black-kvs-kv01t-black) in the end. Hopefully they're better than the IsoDry 5000 Mountain Warehouse ones which went in the bin on account of the jacket in the same fabric letting water through the fabric when skin touched it. Maybe I should have given them a chance but the jacket annoyed me and put me off Mountain Warehouse.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Jac on 14:09:31, 27/04/19
Thanks Jac.

I opted for these (https://www.bigclothing4u.co.uk/kam-big-waterproof-trousers-black-kvs-kv01t-black) in the end. Hopefully they're better than the IsoDry 5000 Mountain Warehouse ones which went in the bin on account of the jacket in the same fabric letting water through the fabric when skin touched it. Maybe I should have given them a chance but the jacket annoyed me and put me off Mountain Warehouse.



Hopefully..........................................proof of the pudding ???
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 14:19:04, 27/04/19

Hopefully..........................................proof of the pudding ???

Not much choice but to rely on pudding-proof. I saw some gore-tex trousers in workwear but they weren't overtrousers and also had a 48" waist - a little too small (so may have smaller legs, a problem when my thighs flex).
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 14:45:03, 27/04/19
Those appear to be intended for all day wear.  They are waterproof trousers rather than overtrousers.  I cannot see any see any evidence of leg zips or leg velcro which would mean that you will have trouble putting them on or off over your boots.  Is that what you meant to get?  Both my overtrousers and my winter waterproof trousers have full length leg zips for ease of putting on and off and for ventilation.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 14:56:47, 27/04/19
Those appear to be intended for all day wear.  They are waterproof trousers rather than overtrousers.  I cannot see any see any evidence of leg zips or leg velcro which would mean that you will have trouble putting them on or off over your boots.  Is that what you meant to get?  Both my overtrousers and my winter waterproof trousers have full length leg zips for ease of putting on and off and for ventilation.

No I thought they were overtrousers on account of the description saying "Side pocket opening so you can get to your trousers below". I'll probably miss them not having ventilation zips. I'll try taking a carrier bag and shove it over my boots then push them through the trousers as a way around not having zips to put them on. I'll look around for ones with zips, can always send these ones back.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 15:43:59, 27/04/19
Might work, good luck getting the heels of your boots through.  Hope you are good at standing on one leg - either that or take another bag to sit on.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: richardh1905 on 16:02:38, 27/04/19
I'm very pleased with my Berghaus 'Deluge' overtrousers, Rob - out in all weather over the winter in them. Full length double ended zips make them easy to put on over boots, and are good for ventilation.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 16:07:16, 27/04/19
Can't find any with zips. I'm pretty good at standing on one leg and change between trainers and hiking boots this way but I'll remember to take my folding sitmat.

Those trousers look nice Richard in fact I've looked at them before, couldn't find them in a 50" waist.

I can't work out if  these (https://www.hellyhansen.com/en_gb/loke-pants-62265) are trousers or overtrousers. Some Helly Hansen trousers are variously described as trousers and overtrousers on other sites. I'm thinking trousers which is a shame as I'm quite happy with my jacket with the same model name. HH customer services are closed for the weekend. What do you think they are?

Edit: according to a review (https://www.wiredforadventure.com/best-waterproof-trousers/) I found they're overtrousers and have knee length zips.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: richardh1905 on 16:25:37, 27/04/19
Yeah, they only seem to go up to 45" waist.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Dread on 16:28:25, 27/04/19
I usually hike in Lidl's own waterproof hiking trousers. In fact I wear them to work most days as well. £7.99. Very lightweight so they don't get sweaty. If it rains hard they get saturated but soon dry out. I'm the sort of person who delays putting on rain gear because it might just be a shower. I usually have my rain jacket on anyway but i can't be bothered trying to pull overtrousers on in a deluge. If it all gets too much i throw on my poncho.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 16:34:02, 27/04/19
I'm the sort of person who delays putting on rain gear because it might just be a shower. I usually have my rain jacket on anyway but i can't be bothered trying to pull overtrousers on in a deluge. If it all gets too much i throw on my poncho.

To be honest I never saw the point in waterproof trousers before, I've never been concerned about wet legs in the rain but I don't fancy kneeling down to take a bearing in a wet muddy field in track pants.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 16:41:21, 27/04/19
+1 for Deluge.  Used have some really lightweight plastic trousers. They were murder to put on, the zips weren't long enough to get wet boots through easily.  So I got a pair with full length zips both sides.  Trouble was they used to unzip totally both sides as you got them out, so you ended up with a bizarrely shaped sheet of plastic fabric.  Any wind and you had to take in a couple of reefs before putting them on and you needed a PhD in origami to reassemble them.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 16:43:21, 27/04/19
To be honest I never saw the point in waterproof trousers before, I've never been concerned about wet legs in the rain
  Its alright for you.  Your legs are in the rain shadow  :)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Dread on 16:44:11, 27/04/19
Tbh i think that the Lidl ones are water repellent rather than waterproof. If it's really lashing down then you get wet legs. Doesn't usually bother me either as long as my feet are dry.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 16:51:11, 27/04/19
Have you seen http://www.bigandtallmenswear.co.uk/c/53/Waterproof-Range (http://www.bigandtallmenswear.co.uk/c/53/Waterproof-Range) ? They start their sizes at 50" waist.
Not sure on quality as only recognise one of the brands. Could be worth a punt at the prices (I usually shop in the £100-£200 range for summer waterproof overtrousers, and these are in the £10 to £30 range).
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Warbler on 16:54:31, 27/04/19

Another thumbs up for Berghaus Deluge.


If they go up to a size 45" it might be worth trying a pair on as there is a lot of stretch in the elastic waistband. I'm a 34" waist and have a large pair of Deluge and reckon I could put on a few inches and still wear them comfortably.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 16:57:46, 27/04/19
Have you seen http://www.bigandtallmenswear.co.uk/c/53/Waterproof-Range (http://www.bigandtallmenswear.co.uk/c/53/Waterproof-Range) ? They start their sizes at 50" waist.

Yes thanks archaeoroutes I did check them out, the trousers I bought are (the most expensive) ones they sell, I just bought them from a cheaper site.

Another thumbs up for Berghaus Deluge.

If they go up to a size 45" it might be worth trying a pair on as there is a lot of stretch in the elastic waistband. I'm a 34" waist and have a large pair of Deluge and reckon I could put on a few inches and still wear them comfortably.

I'm really 51" but I find 50" fits better. Asking them to stretch 6 inches might be pushing it but I'll see if I can find a pair in a shop to try on.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: gunwharfman on 17:15:09, 28/04/19
For me, neither! I can't stand the things, sweaty, fussy and horrible! I wanted freedom from such monstrosities!

I now use two different methods to keep dry. My first was to use a rain skirt. My skirt is a rectangular piece of waterproof material, elasticated along one long edge and secured by velcro. Once secured around my waist the bottom edge is about 6" from the ground. The rain falls off my coat, onto the skirt, onto my gaiters and then to the ground. I have the lower edge weighted (bought in a local haberdashery shop) to minimise the problem of the material flapping in wind. I can put on, or take off my skirt in a few seconds, it just sits scrunched up in one of my rucksack pockets waiting for use. I don't even have to stop walking to use it.

My second method is to use a long cheap (£15) waterproof coat, the hem is also about 6" from the ground, again weighted at the hem. Works just as well but takes a bit more effort to put on and off. The coat is very useful when rain keeps coming and going and when it's windy as well, I just keep it on and when the rain stops, I just open up the zip to have the maximum airflow around me. At the moment this is my preferred method.

In the olden days, when I did wear waterproof trousers, the 'trick' I learned from the Walking Forum was to carry a couple of Tesco plastic bags with me, put them over my boots, then my boots through the leggings, no mud or wet inside!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 17:34:11, 28/04/19
Thanks GWM for replying.

For me, neither! I can't stand the things, sweaty, fussy and horrible! I wanted freedom from such monstrosities!

I don't think I'll like them either, I'm not too fond of waterproof jackets though my Helly Hansen Loke one is better than my Regatta Birchdale one. The problem is specifically kneeling down in a wet muddy field to take bearings. I think I'll prefer the overtrousers to being wet and muddy on my left leg.

I now use two different methods to keep dry. My first was to use a rain skirt. My skirt is a rectangular piece of waterproof material, elasticated along one long edge and secured by velcro. Once secured around my waist the bottom edge is about 6" from the ground. The rain falls off my coat, onto the skirt, onto my gaiters and then to the ground. I have the lower edge weighted (bought in a local haberdashery shop) to minimise the problem of the material flapping in wind. I can put on, or take off my skirt in a few seconds, it just sits scrunched up in one of my rucksack pockets waiting for use. I don't even have to stop walking to use it.

I've read about your rain skirt before. While a very practical solution for normal use, it wouldn't help with kneeling down.

My second method is to use a long cheap (£15) waterproof coat, the hem is also about 6" from the ground, again weighted at the hem. Works just as well but takes a bit more effort to put on and off. The coat is very useful when rain keeps coming and going and when it's windy as well, I just keep it on and when the rain stops, I just open up the zip to have the maximum airflow around me. At the moment this is my preferred method.

Same practicality (and problem) as the skirt.

In the olden days, when I did wear waterproof trousers, the 'trick' I learned from the Walking Forum was to carry a couple of Tesco plastic bags with me, put them over my boots, then my boots through the leggings, no mud or wet inside!

A useful tip and indeed one I'd picked up somewhere on the Internet already, I think from the ramblers.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 17:53:26, 28/04/19
Rob,  I can't remember ever kneeling down to take a bearing - have I been doing it wrong?
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 17:59:07, 28/04/19
Rob,  I can't remember ever kneeling down to take a bearing - have I been doing it wrong?

No idea if you've been doing it wrong, probably not if it works. The book says it minimizes errors if you take bearings from this position and says it should be standard practice:

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56cc47ca86db43e25e2f409b/t/58414e7a29687f506e11a8c4/1480674954371/?format=1000w)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: jimbob on 18:01:19, 28/04/19
Rob,  I can't remember ever kneeling down to take a bearing - have I been doing it wrong?
I was wondering the same thing. There is  no need whatsoever to kneel.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:07:24, 28/04/19
If none of you do it I'll try taking them standing. My book does say they can be taken standing in various circumstances but made quite a big deal of adopting that position as standard practice. I wonder what archaeoroutes teaches?
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 18:09:14, 28/04/19
If I knelt to take a bearing, I would need my walking poles so that I could get up again without pain - the knees are not so good.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:18:23, 28/04/19
Experienced walkers not doing it is enough for me to discard the books wisdom, taking into consideration I hated the idea and it was getting in the way. Now I have waterproof overtrousers arriving I'll probably never use. Hey ho.

Thanks chaps. :)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Ridge on 18:25:12, 28/04/19
They'll not go to waste Bob, the day will come when it is p-ing down and you'll be glad of them.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Mel on 18:32:28, 28/04/19
Another non-kneeler here  O0   
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 18:34:27, 28/04/19
Rob,  I can't remember ever kneeling down to take a bearing - have I been doing it wrong?
I have. Back to the wind on the Cairngorm plateau, goggles fogging up and great big mittens slipping on the bezel.


As for teaching it, no I don't say they have to kneel. This little addition to the thread has made me have a little think, which is something I like. I am an experienced Mountain Leader, a Course Director for Gold National Navigation Award Scheme, active with Mountain Training assessments, and a competitive orienteerer and coach, and I've never met this as a hard piece of advice.
I can see what the author is getting at in terms of having a stable point to help stop map and compass slipping around when trying to do it. There is also something to be said for reducing overload.     It is something I have done on occasion when the elements are against me. However, as a routine thing I don't see it as necessary. With a suitably-folded map and a good thumb grip holding the baseplate in place while you turn the bezel, it should be fine. A simple check that it hasn't moved before taking off the map should be part of your process anyway.  
You know what the photo reminds me of? Army instructional manuals. Possibly the author is thinking that they'll be needing to juggle map, compass, chinagraph and so on to triangulate a position. Whether actually doing that or just having fun in the hills, if I have to go to that level I'm putting the map on the ground and lying on my belt buckle behind it.  
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:36:59, 28/04/19
They'll not go to waste Bob, the day will come when it is p-ing down and you'll be glad of them.

Maybe, I frequently selected not to wear my old waterproof jacket in the rain unless it was too cold preferring the rain to the resulting sweat.

My new jacket seems better on the flat but it's yet to see a hill.

I've yet to want waterproof trousers other than the kneeling thing. Maybe there will come a time.

Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Dovegirl on 18:48:46, 28/04/19
I've yet to want waterproof trousers other than the kneeling thing. Maybe there will come a time.
I'm glad of mine when it's pouring with rain
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: richardh1905 on 18:53:25, 28/04/19
It has never entered my mind to kneel down whilst taking a bearing, Rob. It really doesn't matter if you are a degree or two out.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: richardh1905 on 18:54:17, 28/04/19
I'm glad of mine when it's pouring with rain



..or when walking onto the teeth of a sleet laden Orkney gale!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: richardh1905 on 18:55:20, 28/04/19
Maybe there will come a time.



There will come a time, Rob. And without decent waterproofs, it could be a very miserable and potentially life threatening time.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 18:59:09, 28/04/19
I dislike the faff of putting overtrousers on and off. I also dislike the feel of hardshells.
For those reasons I prefer Paramo kit. Wear them all day, they feel nice and soft, they're properly breathable, and they stay more waterproof than Goretex long-term. Oh, and insulating overlayering is the bees knees.

Sadly, the largest waist they do is 44", so not a great help in this thread.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: pdstsp on 19:02:57, 28/04/19

..or when walking onto the teeth of a sleet laden Orkney gale!


So during the annual mid-summer family bbq then?  ;D  (I am joking - my brief visit to Orkney was very calm)


Rob - staying dry can be very important when wind-chill on wet bodies can mean that you lose heat quickly - mine live in my bag, and like everyone else, I cannot stand them - but they have their uses.


Paul
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 19:17:00, 28/04/19
Sadly, the largest waist they do is 44", so not a great help in this thread.

There's not much market for it I think, I have to do all my normal clothes shopping online as there's not that many people my size. Let alone active activities clothing. I've yet to come across anyone as fat as me out walking and indeed only see a few around town.

I'm quite tempted to try losing some weight so more walks (and better clothes) are accessible to me but two things 1) I like my food and 2) I have an expensive amount of clothes in this size which would then be wasted. I'm slowly coming round to the idea, mostly so I can do more walks.


Rob - staying dry can be very important when wind-chill on wet bodies can mean that you lose heat quickly - mine live in my bag, and like everyone else, I cannot stand them - but they have their uses.

I've noticed that while I can tolerate temperatures of 2 degrees (real temperatures) with lots of wind chill in a t-shirt once wet I start to shiver at about 6 degrees. It's always been my core that gets noticeably cold not my legs which just feel a bit numb. Maybe it would be different in Orkney!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 19:32:46, 28/04/19
I've noticed that while I can tolerate temperatures of 2 degrees (real temperatures) with lots of wind chill in a t-shirt once wet I start to shiver at about 6 degrees. It's always been my core that gets noticeably cold not my legs which just feel a bit numb. Maybe it would be different in Orkney!
Cold joints can spell real trouble. I spent a (British) summer working in shorts when I was 20ish and by the end my knees were hell. Took a lot of recovery.


Even if your legs don't feel cold, you are still losing heat through them. And that can be dangerous. Of course, it is good for weight loss, so...
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 20:02:43, 28/04/19
Cold joints can spell real trouble. I spent a (British) summer working in shorts when I was 20ish and by the end my knees were hell. Took a lot of recovery.

Good to know. My knees are a problem for hill walks they take nearly a week to recover already each walk. Will take precautions.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 20:33:18, 28/04/19
Also a word of caution on feeling cold vs being cold. I spent quite a bit of time in Finland. One night I was out on the town with friends. It didn't feel cold and I wore a shirt and jeans. Seriously, I was not feeling cold, and that was even before the alcohol. It was about -15, but totally dry. My local friends were quick to correct me on my attire - they wore typical party clothes but had thick coats for when they went outside.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Gadabout Bounder on 21:32:55, 28/04/19
A walk very similar to the attached.


10 miles of horizontal rain, the entire walk - was certainly glad of my waterproof trousers yesterday.


Additions were a there and back to Gordale Scar.


(http://i64.tinypic.com/4gjmf6.png)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Gadabout Bounder on 21:43:22, 28/04/19
Gunwharfman


Before we set off for yesterdays walk I saw a man similar looking to yourself, going into the Buck Inn @ Malham.


What drew my attention was the long overcoat that the individual was wearing and I know you wear one.


We are staying in the village till tomorrow morning and I just happened to be looking across to the pub.


Was that you??

Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: gunwharfman on 09:13:28, 29/04/19
No, sorry but it wasn't me. I haven't been to Malham since the last Forum meet.

Now that I am happy as to where I've got to in keeping dry for the least possible cost and finding out the best way to do it I would now like to find a more 'professional' long coat. My £15 Champion coat is good enough, (it weighs about one pound) but I'm sure that if it was designed again and made of more lightweight and 'professional' waterproof materials it would be even better. I don't think one exists at the moment but I'll keep looking.

Or alternatively, I can still use my Precip with my rain skirt.

I now have four choices on how to keep dry, wear waterproof trousers, wear a poncho, wear my long coat or wear my Precip and rain skirt. They all work but some work better than others.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Islandplodder on 09:27:47, 29/04/19

You may find losing weight, and more particularly inches, is an accidental side effect of doing more walking.
+1 for paramo trousers though.  Like many people I don't like the feel of overtrousers, they always seem a bit cumbersome and restrictive, which meant it was always a bit late when I gave in and put them on.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 10:52:29, 29/04/19
You may find losing weight, and more particularly inches, is an accidental side effect of doing more walking.
+1 for paramo trousers though.  Like many people I don't like the feel of overtrousers, they always seem a bit cumbersome and restrictive, which meant it was always a bit late when I gave in and put them on.

Indeed it's possible, according to this (https://caloriesburnedhq.com/calories-burned-hiking/) calculator my recent walk burned off over 5000 calories, but according to a recent check I eat around 3500 calories a day. If I knocked 1000 calories a day off and continued walking in theory I'd lose over 3lbs a week.

I've wondered what Paramo trousers are like, apart from (much like Gore-Tex) not making them in my size, I'd heard they're rather warm. Not good with all the heat I generate!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: pdstsp on 11:13:51, 29/04/19

I've wondered what Paramo trousers are like, apart from (much like Gore-Tex) not making them in my size, I'd heard they're rather warm. Not good with all the heat I generate!


Personally, I don't get on with Paramo kit for this very reason - I walk hot, and find Paramo make me hotter.  It's a shame as so many people rave about it, and I think it looks and feels good - I just end up a bit messy and whiffy!!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 12:21:41, 29/04/19
I use the lightest weight Paramo. The big thing in terms of temperature control is that they vent really well. The Velez Adventure Light Smock, for instance, has a zip from neck to bottom of chest, one either side from armpit to hip, and the sleeves easily pull up above the elbow. The trousers unzip up most of the leg. If it's still too warm for me to cope like that, then I probably wouldn't feel the need for a waterproof (or I'd be using my 2.5 layer running shirt).

With Paramo, you have to have a different mindset to Goretex. Buffalo is similar but aimed at colder weather.
It isn't bombproof. Heavy rain in a strong wind will eventually get through to your skin. But then your body heat pumps it back out again. And you stay warm even when wet.
It isn't part of a traditional layering system. Ideally you'd wear it against your skin, or with a Paramo baselayer, and not take it off all day. Extra warmth is added by overlayering.

It's the pump that gives it an edge of Goretex. With a hardshell, any moisture inside stays inside (breathability doesn't make a difference when liquid water coats the inside). That moisture could be sweat, rain that got in up cuffs or down collar, river that came up your legs during a crossing, failed membrane on GTX. It also means that it can take a lot of abuse. Mine has stitched up repairs and sewn-on bedges that make no difference to its effectiveness because it doesn't rely on an unpunctured membrane.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 12:29:58, 29/04/19
I have Paramo jacket and trousers.  The jacket is a disaster - condensation literally drips out of the cuffs even though it has been maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.  The trousers on the other hand are excellent, keeping me warm and dry and they are my go to clothing in winter.  Unless it is really cold, I wear them without trousers underneath - not sure if that's right, but it works for me.  I like being able to undo the side zips without dying of indecent exposure when they get too warm.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: phil1960 on 16:01:24, 01/05/19
I’ve had two of the Paramo lightweight Velez smocks, one of which I’m still using. Not had any issues whatsoever with either of them, slightly warm if anything at all but then I run hot.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Warbler on 16:31:14, 01/05/19
I too have had a Paramo Velez smock for a few years now and had no problem with it at all. Big fan. If not wearing it, it's invariably in my sack.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 17:14:50, 01/05/19
I found a company who say they can make Nikwax Analogy clothes in my size!

http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/waterproofs/gents_trousers.html

and

http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/waterproofs/lota.html

Bit pricey but I expect you get what you pay for. All the votes for Paramo are tempting me but it's a lot of money if I find it's too hot.

Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 18:01:11, 01/05/19
A good Goretex jacket will set you back a good few hundred pounds too, before custom sizing.
The jump to Paramo is a big one. Very much a marmite brand.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 18:03:30, 01/05/19
Rob, hilltrek.co.uk also will make custom sizes in a range of different sizes, for a price. I think their biggest standard size is 44 waist. They used to stock Paramo and do repair this. They use a number of different materials, including Cotton Analogy, which is similar to what Paramo use. Hill trek is based in Aboyne in Aberdeenshire.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 18:15:58, 01/05/19
Wait until the colder weather before you take the leap and try out the ones you already have first - save your pennies for now.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:17:20, 01/05/19
Rob, hilltrek.co.uk also will make custom sizes in a range of different sizes, for a price.

Good to know, thanks. I found them on a Google but saw their sizes went up to XXL and left. Didn't know they did custom sizes if you asked.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:20:06, 01/05/19
Wait until the colder weather before you take the leap and try out the ones you already have first - save your pennies for now.

Yeah I need to pay for my car MOT this month. My waterproof jacket is OK on the flat but I suspect I'll get covered in sweat going uphill. I'll give it a chance but I bought it thinking it was the best I could do, possibly I could have done better.

It's good research for the future.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: phil1960 on 18:35:20, 01/05/19
I would also add that Paramo are generous in their sizing, if you would normally be in a large I would try a medium first and so on.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 19:21:53, 01/05/19
I would also add that Paramo are generous in their sizing, if you would normally be in a large I would try a medium first and so on.
I didn’t find that to be the case.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: phil1960 on 19:30:12, 01/05/19
Oh well there you go, it’s been the case for me with both my Velez smocks, two windproofs and a baselayer.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 19:46:27, 01/05/19
It might just be my shape  ;D . I was trying on zipped waterproofs rather than smocks, so that could make for a different fit.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: phil1960 on 19:59:53, 01/05/19
It might just be my shape  ;D . I was trying on zipped waterproofs rather than smocks, so that could make for a different fit.
Could be, I’m a bit of a funny shape myself, I find Berghaus and Rab come up short on me and Paramo quite big, if they did something between a large and extra large it would be perfect  ;D
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Jim Parkin on 20:41:52, 06/05/19
Yeah I need to pay for my car MOT this month. My waterproof jacket is OK on the flat but I suspect I'll get covered in sweat going uphill. I'll give it a chance but I bought it thinking it was the best I could do, possibly I could have done better.

It's good research for the future.
I get covered in sweat going uphill when only wearing a baselayer at about ten degrees.  No jacket is almost always going to be less sweaty than a jacket. 
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Pitboot on 12:19:03, 07/05/19
I would also add that Paramo are generous in their sizing, if you would normally be in a large I would try a medium first and so on.


They used to be generous in sizing, I have a Cascada size L from years ago and it is roomy, great for winter layers.
I recently bought a Helki as I wanted to go lighter and now have to wear XL, same goes for shirts and t shirts, and NO I'm not fatter than I was.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: phil1960 on 21:48:53, 07/05/19

They used to be generous in sizing, I have a Cascada size L from years ago and it is roomy, great for winter layers.
I recently bought a Helki as I wanted to go lighter and now have to wear XL, same goes for shirts and t shirts, and NO I'm not fatter than I was.
I find the complete opposite, are you sure you’ve not been at the pies?  ;)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 22:49:58, 07/05/19
I am of ‘large build’ and couldn’t find anything in Paramo that was remotely in my size. I am taller and a few stones  lighter than Rob, but in no way could I be described as a sylph.On that basis, I suspect that Paramo wouldn’t suit him, but perhaps I am just an odd shape
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 22:54:51, 07/05/19
I am of ‘large build’ and couldn’t find anything in Paramo that was remotely in my size. I am taller and a few stones  lighter than Rob, but in no way could I be described as a sylph.On that basis, I suspect that Paramo wouldn’t suit him, but perhaps I am just an odd shape

I'm on a diet now so it would be silly to buy expensive Paramo clothes for this size. In a few months I should be a few stone lighter (and more importantly for clothes, inches thinner). In a year I might even fit into off the shelf clothes.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 23:06:53, 07/05/19
Rob, I wish you well on your weight loss campaign. I need to lose several stone myself so that it takes less effort walking in the hills. Losing weight will also take some strain off my knees and back neither of which are not in a pristine state and may also assist with my Achilles tendonitis. I am the upper end of the size range for a lot of outdoor gear and off the peg clothes and it would be good to have more choice.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:08:39, 08/05/19
We easily lose weight in our house, neither of us likes shopping and we always seem to leave it until there is nothing but crumbs (or less) in our cupboards. Some people we know would fall apart if their kitchens are not FULLY stocked! One friend even has a War Store, a 6' x 3' metal cabinet in their garage stocked to the gunnels with tins and so on, just waiting for the day when...............? We know exactly where to if when the bomb drops, or if we become hungry after Brexit!  :)

I've no real experience of waterproof trousers, I only ever owned one pair but I do have a Paramo jacket, I bought a 'S' and its always been a bit too big for me.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: tenmilesplus on 13:10:21, 08/05/19
When we started out on our walking career we bought over trousers, I wore them once and have never bothered since, I found the sweat from the inside is as bad as the rain on the outside and because the rain is generally accompanied by cold weather 'Breathable' fabrics should work but don't in my experience.. I find lose fitting clothing best, the rain pelts down and the wind blows, the fabric flaps around flicking the ain off meaning the rain doesn't soak through.. I have been soaked to the skin by failed fabrics, water getting in through holes ( neck, arms, open pockets, tops of boots and poor stitching ) there is actually not much you can do about it but find a distraction and know that getting wet is part of the whole outdoors experience. Spending £hundreds to stay dry is all OK if you have that sort of money to buy, replace and spend time maintaining the apparel.. I prefer to keep the extremities protected, gloves, hat, socks ( carry dry spares ) neck tube, fleece layers.. there is a lot of clothing you can carry that doesn't take up much space or weight.. Getting out is the most important thing, keeping dry might just mean carrying a brolly ? The Weather is different every time, there is so many different types / permutations of Weather, keeping dry is difficult, coping is the best method.. Mountain climbing is a different kettle of fish, keeping warm and dry is very important when hanging off a cliff at 4000ft..
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:44:02, 08/05/19
looks like you and I think in the same sort of way. I now treat getting wet as a totally different subject from ALL other clothing needs. My clothing purchases, except for boots, are all now about the other weathers, cold, wind, heat and so on.

To keep dry I use my gaiters, they in my model are the most important items and a £15 waterproof long coat, it works very well. I used them this morning, went for a walk in the rain and came home dry.

At the moment I'm thinking about buying a second £15 long coat and cutting the bottom area off to make it just a posterior covering jacket, specifically to use with my rain skirt. The short jacket for the summer, the long coat for the winter perhaps?

Pity I didn't understand all this when I bought my expensive Paramo jacket a few years ago. Looking back, a total waste of money!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: tenmilesplus on 13:51:57, 08/05/19
I bought a Paramo too, I haven't felt the need to use it yet...
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:57:34, 08/05/19
There still is one way I can get wet though, walking through long grass or ferns in the morning after a heavy dew or heavy rain. Even with a rain skirt on my knees can get wet, the drag of the grass and ferns can begin to open my skirt but I've solved this by re-using an old cheap pair of waterproof short running gaiters, they cost me about £10 at the time. I've had them for years but have never used them, until this year. I just wrap them around my knees and snap them together, 5 seconds on, 5 seconds off, the bottom edge over my gaiters, the top edge a few inches above my knees. Dry knees every time!

I can even picture two places where I suffered wet knees in the past, walking through long grass between Alston to Garrigill and walking through very wet ferns at the end of Lake Coniston after an overnight and sustained downpour.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 14:23:57, 08/05/19
gunwharfman what do you do about sweating in your raincoat, especially when you're going uphill? I read before you leave it open, is it really that simple? People used to wander the hills before Gore Tex after all.

I'm currently not very well and keep falling asleep so am not doing much. If I get better before the weather picks up my next walk will show how well my jacket works up hill.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: gunwharfman on 19:49:39, 09/05/19
I'm sure I will perspire but as I did with my previous jacket, at the earliest opportunity I open up the zip and let the breeze or wind dry me. That's one of the main reasons why I will never to buy a half zip again. I bought a half zip fleece a few years ago, it works when I stroll to the pub but if I start to perspire it makes me feel really uncomfortable and clammy. I never take it with me when I hike.

I thought today was a classic example of rain, lots of heavy showers and dry in between. I was thinking again as to how many times in the last ten years has it rained for hours on end without a break, I still convinced I can count the days on one hand, or one and a half hands at the most!

It still irks me that I spent £250 on a waterproof jacket when in reality I didn't need to. Oh well, we live and learn!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 20:05:23, 09/05/19
Now here's a thing GW.  I have a lightweight Wolfskin jacket.  If I unzip it, I get more condensation problems than if I wear it done up.  Presumably because it is warmer inside the liner is too warm for condensation so it breathes as designed.  Regrettably I cannot get my Paramo jacket to work in the same way,
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 20:54:49, 09/05/19
Now here's a thing GW.  I have a lightweight Wolfskin jacket.  If I unzip it, I get more condensation problems than if I wear it done up.  Presumably because it is warmer inside the liner is too warm for condensation so it breathes as designed.  Regrettably I cannot get my Paramo jacket to work in the same way,

You all talk of these magic breathable fabrics. My jacket is supposedly 10k waterproof/10k breathable. Today I got pretty wet with sweat walking about town in it. The rain had stopped. My jacket wasn't saturated. It made me hot and sweaty. I didn't really notice how wet I was until it got uncomfortably warm. Maybe Gore Tex works better but that's the second 10k/10k jacket I've had that's only good for wearing when it's cold and wet and being hot and wet is slightly better. Not impressed.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:57:26, 11/05/19
Does condensation form on the inside of the jacket, Rob?


I get hot and sweaty pretty quickly if I am walking hard, but no condensation forms on the inside of my waterproof, so it is not to blame.


And what on earth does 10k waterproof/10k breathable mean? I must confess that I have absolutely no idea!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 08:46:13, 11/05/19
The 10k waterproof refers to hydrostatic head. Don't blame me for the mix of units, but 10k waterproof means if you take a 1"x1" testing tube and put it on the fabric, it would support a column of water 10000mm tall before some was forced through.
10k waterproof equates to a jacket that will cope with light rain for a short period of time. To put that into perspective, Goretex makes products in the 20k-30k range.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:58:12, 11/05/19
Thanks, archaeoroutes. I tend to take numbers like this with a pinch of salt, I must confess; as they are from the laboratory rather than the hill!
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 08:59:37, 11/05/19
I should also point out that the breathability tests are all biased to the US market. It is rare for a breathable garment to perform anywhere near its rating in typical British conditions.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 09:00:52, 11/05/19
Thanks, archaeoroutes. I tend to take numbers like this with a pinch of salt, I must confess; as they are from the laboratory rather than the hill!
Indeed. I've only ever used that number to help make a decision for tent floors - whether me kneeling on it will force the water through is pretty close to the test conditions.
In fact, I'd be likely to go the other way. If a manufacturer boasted about the hydrostatic head in place of things I consider important, I'd instantly be worried there is something else wrong.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 10:12:32, 05/08/19
Are the Berghaus Stormcloud overtrousers suitable for summer? Nowhere has the Deluge in stock. I'm expecting rain on Wednesday it would be nice to keep my legs dry. The bit where I wear my trousers around as an alternative to my waist is now 44 inches if I remember from last night.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Owen on 12:24:55, 05/08/19
Don't know about Berghaus, but mountain equipment rainfall pants are very elastic in the waist, you may need bracies to hold them up.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 12:32:05, 05/08/19
Are the Berghaus Stormcloud overtrousers suitable for summer? Nowhere has the Deluge in stock. I'm expecting rain on Wednesday it would be nice to keep my legs dry. The bit where I wear my trousers around as an alternative to my waist is now 44 inches if I remember from last night.
Looking at that forecast I would stay at home and save my money. Poor to moderate visibility, 90% chance of rain, wind 26mph gusting up to 35, possibly 40, route close to your current physical limits.  Save it for a fine day.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 13:25:39, 05/08/19
I went to Keswick and bought the Stormcloud overpants after the gym so I hope they're OK. Incidentally gains on the rowing machine, upright bike, lat pulldown, seated row, seated leg curl and leg press (now maxed the machine out) all in one day! Not sure what happened there I got stronger and fitter over the weekend.

Really want to do the walk though  :-\ I've already said I'm going to do it now to a different diet group I'm in where we challenge each other and I've gone and said I'm doing 30,000 steps and 200 floors on Wednesday. Doing that in town would be so boring it's untrue. Suppose I could select another walk and look like a plum if you really think it's a bad idea ninthace and not just challenging - I googled the wind speed and it said it could be double up high so those gusts then could be 60? That's enough to knock you over I think?

I'm going out somewhere Wednesday even if it's a low level walk. A long low level walk would be good so I can still hit the 30,000 steps even if I have to abandon 200 floors for now.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 13:38:53, 05/08/19
Rob, the forecast I was looking at was for Great Dun Fell so the windspeeds do not need to be adjusted (i hope)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 13:52:10, 05/08/19
Can you think of any good fairly long low level walks in my area or the lakes? Preferably with no boggy ground in the rain, it slows me down a lot trying to avoid it. I think up to 15 miles as a start if it's flat, easy ground, a bit less if it involves a bit of diversity.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 14:38:14, 05/08/19
To be honest not many that long, these are closest:
http://www.haroldstreet.org.uk/routes/download/?walk=1607 (http://www.haroldstreet.org.uk/routes/download/?walk=1607)   Bowes to Tan Hill or vice versa. Boggy in places but not too bad
http://www.haroldstreet.org.uk/routes/download/?walk=1632 (http://www.haroldstreet.org.uk/routes/download/?walk=1632)   In Teesdale. Nice easy scramble up Cauldron Snout included
http://www.haroldstreet.org.uk/routes/download/?walk=2512 (http://www.haroldstreet.org.uk/routes/download/?walk=2512)   Castle Bolton & Aysgarth
https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1911426/150325-Upper-Ribblesdale (https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1911426/150325-Upper-Ribblesdale)
You could try the OS app - if you find a route that begins yymmdd it may be one of mine.  Likewise Haroldstreet.org.uk under username ninthace or in ViewRanger - username ninth ace.



 
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 14:51:29, 05/08/19
It looks scarier as 26km. The 7-8 miles I did on Saturday were a piece of (sugar free, keto diet friendly) cake though. Thanks for the suggestions ninthace I will have a ponder - might find a shorter route and walk it twice too - I could do it in both directions...
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 14:57:30, 05/08/19
Upper Teesdale is a good area for that sort of thing. Say Middleton to High Force, on towards Cronkley and back via a higher route past Holwick or vice versa.  It’s only across the hill from you.  There is a railway walk that can be made into a circuit too, just below Middleton.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 16:24:59, 05/08/19
I've plotted a route (https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1WejeMbF3k_BV45w4QWUUfihdVJjelfK-), decided to go for 12 and a half miles ish rather than 15 it's not a bad start and I reckon at my stride length should hit 30k steps, plotted it from a random start location as haven't investigated parking yet. Thoughts? Anything wrong with it? Can it be improved?

Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 16:41:23, 05/08/19
There is a car park just across the bridge in the grounds of the building on the right.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:03:33, 05/08/19
Thanks ninthace that's Wednesday sorted then, pity my Mountain Equipment Zeno won't be here and I'll have to rock the Helly Hansen Loke jacket. I ordered it from Bergzeit, probably shouldn't have looking at their TrustPilot page but they were the only ones with the colour I wanted (marine) in XXL. I used to favour black but this tine I wanted marine. OK I liked the grey a little better but it was £30 more and I didn't like it £30 more. 20km is longer than I've walked since 2012. Looking forward to it, despite the predicted weather... I'll take your advice and save the High Cup Nick route for less windy weather.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 18:11:56, 05/08/19
Wise, the Backstone Edge route is all about the view,
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 09:58:16, 07/08/19
Looks like I'm going to have to double back on myself, couldn't see the path rejoining at NY 91041 27326. Don't want to go all that way and find out the path is a lie, mind you I'm not sure I was in exactly the right place, should have checked on ViewRanger when I passed it.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 11:25:01, 07/08/19
Looks like I'm going to have to double back on myself, couldn't see the path rejoining at NY 91041 27326. Don't want to go all that way and find out the path is a lie, mind you I'm not sure I was in exactly the right place, should have checked on ViewRanger when I passed it. 
It is more or less directly opposite the bridge - the path is clear on the aerial photo.  Start is actually NY 91032 27329.  There is a finger post and stile at the other end too - it definitely exists.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 12:05:46, 07/08/19
I looked on the way back (doubled back on myself after 3 hours) and think I saw where it was, I took a photo will post later.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 13:31:04, 07/08/19
It is not a heavily used path as it fills little purpose these days but it can be seen on GoogleEarth.  When I walked your route, or variations thereof, I would use the lane from Holwick to the main road and then go down to the Tees bridge.  It is easier going when you are feeling tired towards the end of a walk and there is a good pub.  The road is a dead end so there is very little traffic.
It troubles me that you missed it.  It is easy map reading to locate the end of the path.  The path itself runs from Newbiggin to Holwick.  It crosses the Tees on a footbridge and then continues across the fields to Holwick so the bridge is a pretty good indicator of where the path leaves the PW.  A stream comes in on the opposite bank beforehand to let you know you are getting there and the footbridge is the first one you come to as you walk up the PW.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 14:42:26, 07/08/19
I didn't exactly miss it I just wasn't sure it was a usable path all the way, it heads into some fields and looks like it goes between them, then it vanishes from sight, I took a photo of it here:

(https://i.ibb.co/5Kt7xDg/20190807-120317.jpg)

It is where I thought it was I just wasn't confident it was usable. My error is not trusting the map rather than missing it.

Anyway I got my 30,000 steps and 18.2 km, but I only managed 1.98 mph today. Heres a trace (https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1KuRh4WHZ9xq_1awNFw-wCsbGChW54j3D).


Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 15:48:15, 07/08/19
I've decided 30k steps isn't enough, going for 45k, on 37k so far.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 16:38:45, 07/08/19
Yes that is the stile.  The path goes ahead through the gate you can see in the distance, then turns left by the wall line and near the top breaks half left to come out near an isolated cottage onto Holwick Lane.  Mostly easy to follow on the ground, may need a gps to get the line right to find the stile.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:09:50, 07/08/19
Just hit 50k steps and 32.39 km. That's enough for now. Admittedly 14km was around town which is easier but if I keep this up I'll be fit enough to tackle Helvellyn by the long route (no striding edge), about 400 metres of ascent for the day too.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: archaeoroutes on 18:52:26, 07/08/19
Loving the live walk feed!
Do you Tweet? I ask because Viewranger can link with a Twitter account for this very purpose. Or it did when I trialled it - I think they went on and released the feature.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 19:14:49, 07/08/19
No I don't know anyone on Twitter so I'm not sure who I'd be tweeting to! Interesting info though.

Normally on walks you don't get a phone signal so you can't communicate but it was on at quite a few places I tried it today.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 19:51:37, 07/08/19
Oh ninthace, the building with the parking is being redeveloped, there's no parking there anymore. Luckily the street was relatively empty and parking was unrestricted.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 20:13:48, 07/08/19
Oh ninthace, the building with the parking is being redeveloped, there's no parking there anymore. Luckily the street was relatively empty and parking was unrestricted.
  That's a shame.  There is space to park at the far end of the lane up to Holwick at NY 90348 27043 - gives you a head start onto the routes over the moors too.  You can either go directly on to the moor via The Bands or take the track past Holwick Lodge to meet the PW.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 20:22:21, 07/08/19
Where's The Bands? I might go back, don't usually go back places and I'd have to re-cover a chunk of the PW if I went via the Howick Lodge path but I could explore more in Teesdale, the drive was fun unlike most drives to these rural idylls, a winding high speed road that's wide enough for two cars so that's a bonus.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 21:04:01, 07/08/19
Nevermind found it, for some reason I assumed it was east of the lodge.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 21:13:48, 07/08/19
The Bands are by the track that goes straight onto the moor from Holwick.
There are some good routes up there for covering ground with a great view.  For example head WNW from Holwick on the track and bridleway to Maize Beck at NY 82613 28083,  Go right and follow Maize Beck downstream to meet the PW near Cronkley then PW back to Holwick Head and track from there to start - a shortened version of this one https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1914738/120812-Upper-Teesdale (https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1914738/120812-Upper-Teesdale)
Another route is to go to the moor and then circle south https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1914612/130620-Brinks-Moss-Hagworm-Hill (https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1914612/130620-Brinks-Moss-Hagworm-Hill).
Then there is Crossthwiate Common https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1911445/150502-Crossthwaite-Common (https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1911445/150502-Crossthwaite-Common)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 21:38:52, 07/08/19
That's a long route, I'll have to plot it and have a ponder. Looks like I'm OK walking for 9 hours in a day but I moved slower today than I did on Saturday out in the county. Thanks ninthace you're like the walking route oracle O0
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 21:53:33, 07/08/19
The route up to Maize Beck is not so bad if you start and finish and Holwick instead of Middleton.  The Binks Moss route requires good navigation as it is little walked.  However if you follow the trace you should be ok.  There are more routes from Langdon Beck, Cow Green and from Middleton itself.  The walk from Middleton up to Coldberry Gutter is a fun one https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1911447/150507-Coldberry-Gutter (https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1911447/150507-Coldberry-Gutter)
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 10:33:19, 08/08/19
Plotted the route (https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1D8XtZNfQmF5ZkErD0qBTuFq4V9IdQmhX), tempted to do it from Middleton so I don't end up walking around town to get the steps/miles in after but there's more ascent here I decided to cowardly start in Holwick. What I should really do is start in Middleton and have a break after 6 hours. Baby steps. Not sure if I'll be doing it next week, the soles of my feet are blistered from my 20 miles yesterday. I've started wiping them with surgical spirit and I'm told it takes 2 weeks to work. It's not all that painful though, I just well may.

Incidentally aiming for 15k steps a day now. It's not the adventurous kind of walking we all love but it's still walking right?
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 14:59:30, 08/08/19
Your plot is not bad mapwise, check it against the aerial view all the way round before you go as the OS map us not entirely accurate on the detail of where the paths actually go.  The only real challenge from the navigational standpoint is leaving the track on to the bridleway at NY 87999 27549 and following the bridleway to Birk Rigg.  IIRC there is a gate at the start of the BW but parts are a bit vague on the way across the moor to the hill.  As you drop down to Maize Beck you will also find the OS map is being a bit optimistic, it is more a case of finding your own way down to the Beck.  Hope you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 17:50:55, 08/08/19
Hope you enjoy it.

Thanks, me too. Hope my feet have toughened up a bit by then also, but I read it takes weeks for calluses to form so probably not.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 17:59:06, 08/08/19
Hmm part of the satellite view on ViewRanger is obscured by cloud and it won't import into OS maps it says the GPX file maybe empty or invalid. Ever had that error before?
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 18:19:17, 08/08/19
I tried GoogleSatellite view on the VR website.  No cloud at all on my view,  I also imported your route successfully into the OR website without any problem.  So from my point of view - no fault found - so I cannot advise.  Try the website rather than the app.  TBH it is not an issue anyway - if you follow your intended line the actually route over the ground will be self evident.  The real paths just wriggle a lot more than the OS lets on.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:40:02, 08/08/19
It imported into the OS website. Route looked relatively OK though not perfect on Aerial view, I think it's sufficient to guide me which is all it has to do. I could spend an hour clipping it exactly to the path but apart from a mistake by High Force where I tracked a right of way that doesn't exist on the ground instead of the Pennine Way and a few places where there doesn't appear to be a clear path it's pretty close I think. The cloud cover on ViewRanger satellite begins at NY 84854 28338. I couldn't find satellite (or any map) view on the ViewRanger website, perhaps because I'm accessing it from a phone.
Title: Re: Waterproof overtrousers or waterproof trousers?
Post by: ninthace on 19:20:37, 08/08/19
Like I said, your plot is good enough and common sense will do the rest.  If you can get a good aerial view you will be able to identify the sticky patches so you are prepared for them.  For example there is a ford on the way across to Birk Rigg and some some peaty areas near a boundary wall.


P.S - It's your thread but we may have drifted it a bit  :)