Emergency Kit

[archaeoroutes]

How about addressing the question the other way round? Lets suggest situations people may find themselves in so we can all consider whether we would have the kit/knowledge to sort things.


To start things off:
1. You are walking in the Cairngorms with a group of 8. It is a day walk so none of you have brought tents/sleeping bags (unless you personally carry that in your emergency kit). The weather gets progressively worse but you are all dressed for the occasion. Someone slips and breaks their ankle. You are 3hrs normal walking from the nearest civilisation. There is no phone signal at your location.
2. You are on a solo walk in the Carneddau    and get lost when the clag sets in. You know you are normally really good and nav and would easily be able to get back down when it clears. Sadly it will be dark in an hour.


3. You are on a family walk on Ingleborough. Your 10yo daughter slips and bangs her head. She feels rather woosy. Your 5yo son is with you but otherwise you are on your own.


4. You are on a solo walk on Crinkle Crags in winter. It is -4C actual with 50mph winds gusting to 80mph. You meet several individuals who are struggling and want to follow you down. Later you meet an ill-prepared group sheltering behind a rock. They also would like to follow you down but some are in early stages of hypothermia.


5. You are leading a group on Helvellyn when a father and son come over and ask to tag along. It is very wet, cold and windy but they are wearing shorts and t-shirts. They insist that they are OK to follow you down Swirral Edge as they have done it before but can't quite place where it is.


I have tried to make these perfectly possible, indeed likely events. In fact 4 and 5 have both happened to me.

[joester]

Well, absolutely.


Without responding directly to the (quite 'trollish') earlier comment, there can be absolutely no need to decry people carrying an extra kilo or so of stuff for the 'what ifs?'.


Read through the (weekly) situations where people have had a few bad turns on the mountain.
A lot of those situations could be prevented by carrying just a few basic items.  The rest of them, whilst not being prevented, could be made a whole lot more comfortable (hence with a more favourable outcome) by packing almost all of the items previously suggested.
The things in the bottom of my rucksack are not (just) for me, but for my family, friends, or anyone else I might encounter in distress.


No one's suggested packing anything that might seem a ridiculous 'over egging' of the emergency cake!

[angry climber]

How about addressing the question the other way round? Lets suggest situations people may find themselves in so we can all consider whether we would have the kit/knowledge to sort things.


To start things off:
1. You are walking in the Cairngorms with a group of 8. It is a day walk so none of you have brought tents/sleeping bags (unless you personally carry that in your emergency kit). The weather gets progressively worse but you are all dressed for the occasion. Someone slips and breaks their ankle. You are 3hrs normal walking from the nearest civilisation. There is no phone signal at your location.
2. You are on a solo walk in the Carneddau    and get lost when the clag sets in. You know you are normally really good and nav and would easily be able to get back down when it clears. Sadly it will be dark in an hour.


3. You are on a family walk on Ingleborough. Your 10yo daughter slips and bangs her head. She feels rather woosy. Your 5yo son is with you but otherwise you are on your own.


4. You are on a solo walk on Crinkle Crags in winter. It is -4C actual with 50mph winds gusting to 80mph. You meet several individuals who are struggling and want to follow you down. Later you meet an ill-prepared group sheltering behind a rock. They also would like to follow you down but some are in early stages of hypothermia.


5. You are leading a group on Helvellyn when a father and son come over and ask to tag along. It is very wet, cold and windy but they are wearing shorts and t-shirts. They insist that they are OK to follow you down Swirral Edge as they have done it before but can't quite place where it is.


I have tried to make these perfectly possible, indeed likely events. In fact 4 and 5 have both happened to me.

I will have a go at number 1 since its the first one.


Its a group of eight but I only carry a 4 man bothy bag with me. get the group together and pick the strongest four walkers. the others will stay with the casualty. First I would look at the group waiting wit the casualty. Make sure they are properly warm and have enough layers to keep them warm. use kit from others if needed to keep the group of four together.


Collectively agree the location of the casualty. use GPS, Smart phones, maps compass etc. It is absolutely imperative that the group with the casualty have food and water, medical supplies like pain killers for the casualty.


The fit group have Chinese Parliament and agree the best route of least resistance to the nearest site of civilisation. Usually the Ski center would be a good bet. Make the casualty group aware of your exact route and stick to that route. Get each member to text a few friends telling them of the situation and ask them to call 999 and give the grid ref of the casualty. It may not send straight away because you have no signal but when you get one for a split second it could send. Get together and collectively text each mobile phone in your group. and get them to text you. Sometimes a text message can get through on a week signal and one of your group receiving a text can be an early indication that you have a signal.  How many times have we got half way up a hill and you get a text someone sent earlier in the day.


Hopefully the fit group would get to civilisation and alert the emergency services, one of the text messages got through and a friend has called 999 located the casualty and that group have informed them of your route you are sticking too. or at some point you got a signal and called out MRT to the casualty.


If you get hold of MRT agree with them your plan of action to get off the hill and again stick to it and check in with them when you get off the hill.


Its not perfect and you may have more gear to play with from others in the group but I think the casualty would be warm and well, would get rescued and all would be fine without any real need for survival kits or starting fires or catching seagulls for food.   

[angry climber]

Number 2


 You are on a solo walk in the Carneddau and get lost when the clag sets in. You know you are normally really good and nav and would easily be able to get back down when it clears. Sadly it will be dark in an hour.

Thick Clag, Darkness, White outs are all the same in one way or another you cant see jack and you lose your natural bearings. First rule of thumb would always be to take a knee and think. Your going to maybe have to wait it out a bit so get some layers on so you don't get cold. Get a fix on your location and evaluate your route. I am not well versed in the Careneddau so I would be looking for areas of steep ground, cliffs etc and plot a route which avoids them.


If you can not avoid them and your route is difficult to navigate even in good weather then its a matter of waiting it out till the bad weather clears. get layers on, get into your survival bag and get your head down in the most comfortable place you can.


If your route is manageable then break it up into small sections, you can use pacing, frequent checks of GPS or other navigational techniques to get you off the hill safely.


Map, Compass, GPS, ABC watch and pacing beads are all things I have to hand on or in my rucksac. Headtorch if just dealing with the dark. 


possibly text a friend or partner and tell them whats happening so they dont panic that your late back and call out MRT. If you are sitting it out give a location and confirm a next check in. Switch your phone off to conserve the battery. Set the alarm on your watch for the agreed check in time and check your phone and text again repeat the same process till you can get off.  If your loved one tells MRT about your situation they may call or text you.     

[Peter]

Hmm.. no 3.
There have to be some assumptions. 1. Its me, therefore I factor in everything else I would have done already.
I know I can and do get signal on Ingleborough, my daughter's safety and well being are paramount. She has a probable concussion. I call for medical help.
I wouldn't be on the mountain in bad weather with children, so I would have all I need to keep her warm and safe. (and the other child) There are also bound to be other walkers that can render assistance.
Could I get her down on my own? Yes, but with risks from stumbling. I may act differently on another hill or in other conditions.
 

[sussamb]

Concussion is the least of your worries.  Concussion by definition is temporary and you could simply wait for her to recover, but the danger is that it's something worse (internal bleeding leading to compression) which does require more urgent action. 

Calling for medical help is essential, I wouldn't risk trying to get her down since if it is compression she could die before you do.

[cbr6fs]

I think it's pretty pointless thrashing out scenarios while we are sat at home in our nice warm houses sat in our comfy chairs.

If anyone has been in a emergency situation you know that your decision making process will differ dramatically when we are cold, wet and very worried.

If you plan on some things going wrong, we all know for a fact that it's the things we haven't planned on that will really ruin our day.

Personally i like to take responsibility for myself.
If i get myself into a emergency situation then i want to be prepared enough that i can look after myself and not put my life in other peoples hands.

I'm not talking about carrying a 10kg of tent, sleeping bag, food, stove etc on a day walk here, I'm talking about taking my time to select a few things that would help me stay warm and dry enough to live and signal for help.

A whistle weighs hardly anything, yet i have seen how useful they are in signally and locating people in need of assistance.
My bivvy bag weighs just over 100g and is smaller than a apple.
My FAK kit has been used many many times, be it coming across injured hikers, the people I'm hiking with or for myself.
I've used several on those packets of recover ice you see in my pic, even if it's not a do or die situation it's amazing how such a small thing can help improve both your mental and physical well being when you've twisted a ankle of the like.

I've used duct tape, paracord, knife to make a splint and crutch out of fallen wood to help a mate get down to a road.
Took us hours and he was in a lot of pain, but the ibuprofen, cool wrap helped.

We all make our own risk assessments based upon our own life experiences and knowledge, for me personally I'm happy to carry a few hundred grams of kit that i hope i never use "just in case".
My mate that [censored] his ankle used to take nothing with him at all, he has now had experience in what can go wrong and how someone is not going to magic you off a mountain.
Funny thing is, a few days after his injury he asked me to order him whatever i felt he'd need "just in case" for next time.

Should say that some people don't wear seatbelts, have no car or home insurance, don't have any savings or financial fall back, smoke, are morbidly obese, drink excessively, take illegal drugs etc etc etc.
So even when we have knowledge that something is not good for us, some personality types just ignore risks and continue anyway
 

[archaeoroutes]

I have say I agree with pretty much everything Cbr6fs has said.

It is very different being actually faced with a situation in reality. There are a couple of reasons I posted some scenarios.
1. In case someone thought "oh yes I might be well off taking x" and later finding it useful.
2. As someone who does deal with emergencies quite frequently (due to nature of my job and volunteer work) I can say that having thought about a situation in advance can make a huge difference when you actually meet something similar.

[Peter]

Concussion is the least of your worries.  Concussion by definition is temporary and you could simply wait for her to recover, but the danger is that it's something worse (internal bleeding leading to compression) which does require more urgent action. 

Calling for medical help is essential, I wouldn't risk trying to get her down since if it is compression she could die before you do.

Actually I almost went back and edited my post straightaway. I was thinking of internal head bleed just didn't mention it..

[Peter]

I agree you carry what you choose, and what you know how to use.
I'm morbidly obese and its not a life choice. 
I don't agree about not 'rehearsing' scenarios. Indeed the more you consider the more you are prepared for. As a business consultant I advocated planning for bad times when companies were enjoying good times. ALL the services consider scenarios, it often means people don't need to think a problem out.
I would rather think about it today and have a plan, than consider it when wet, cold and stressed just as suggested.

[archaeoroutes]

Part of my job is putting people through scenarios where things have gone wrong. At some levels it is a discussion group thing. At others it is a full blown practical made as stressful as possible (wet, dark, shouting, being shot at, etc). It is always obvious who has thought about it in advance.
It is the same when assessing outdoor activities instructors. Their reactions to problem solving scenarios shows how much they have prepared.

And, of course, the more you think about possible problems the better the chance you have of avoiding them.

[Owen]

Depends what you mean by "emergency kit" much of what I carry is to protect me from the environment (waterproof jacket/trousers, fleece top, hat gloves etc). This isn't just for use in an emergency but should you have an accident being able to keep yourself warm and dry will be of more use than a rucksack full of flares and fish hooks. What I carry varies throughout the year and on where I'm going depending on what conditions I'm expecting. It could be just the above - waterproofs and warm cloths or full avalanche and bivi kit.   

[Annejacko]

3. You are on a family walk on Ingleborough. Your 10yo daughter slips and bangs her head. She feels rather woosy. Your 5yo son is with you but otherwise you are on your own.

This scenario is one I've thought about before. My girls are 12 and 10 and I wouldn't take them walking on my own anywhere too remote as I worry what would they do if I was the one who had an accident? I always wait for a time when my husband can come too or another suitably responsible/experienced adult.
We did have an incident a couple of years ago where my younger daughter triped over and headbutted a rock when we were out in the Mendips. We were about two miles from the car although there was a road closer but up a steep hill. My friends and I debated the best course of action, one of us could run back down for the car and meet the others at the top of hill or all go up the hill and then send someone to run down the road for the car.(we were a group of three adults and two children).We were in a steep sided combe so there was no mobile reception. My daughter after the initial shock and tears had calmed down and said she felt fine, at no point had she passed out or anything as frightening as that. In the end we picked the second choice and climbed up out of the combe together before one of us went for the car. Fortunately she was OK and didn't require any medical treatment, I just kept her quiet for the afternoon and kept a close eye on her but it did make me think.
 

[sussamb]

Sounds like you got it just perfect.  Provided someone feels fine after a knock and isn't exhibiting anything unusual observation for a while after is the key.  If after feeling fine there is then any suspicion of blurred or otherwise abnormal vision, confusion, significant swelling, nausea, dizziness, actually being sick, slurred speech etc then these are all warning signs that something more serious has occurred and admission to A&E is required.  Call an ambulance if you can't get them there within 30 minutes.
 
As for what they would do if something happened to you, the time to discuss that with them is before it happens, so before you next take them out 

[roughyed]

It's always an interesting debate, and I confess to not following all the 'rules'.  I walk solo a lot and no one knows where I am...

I also irrationally pack differently depending on where I am.  Local walks I carry water, snacks, mobile, whistle (it's on bag, not a conscious decision to take it) and a fleece/waterproof/softshell (depends on forecast).

When I go to the peaks I carry a lightweight bivvy bag, FAK and a torch.

There is no reason why I carry different things as I'm just as likely to do something silly on a local walk.  And thinking about it there is less chance of someone coming by as it's a tad quieter than Mam Tor!