Author Topic: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells  (Read 2901 times)

kirbstones

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Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« on: 11:00:38, 15/10/08 »
This weeks Westmorland Gazette http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/ suggests a bleak future for the Lakeland Fells with ruined barns and collapsed walls if the hill farming industry is not given more support.  But are they right and does it matter anyway?

The Lakeland fells are a man made landscape and wouldn’t it be better to allow them to return to a more natural state.  Large parts of the Lakeland landscape are already covered in forest which I think only adds to the appeal.

There’s more on my blog http://www.windermere-way.co.uk/news/blog_files/Fells.html but what do others think?
Phil
www.lakeland-walks.co.uk - guided walking in the Lake District and beyond.
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Navitimer806

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #1 on: 12:26:31, 15/10/08 »
I have read that artice also and I agree with that the hill farmers need more support. The Cumbrian hill farmers are in an almost unique position, we shouldn't think of them as just farmers but also as custodians and keepers of the Lakeland landscape we all know and love. In my opinion they should be paid a government subsidy to look after the fells on our behalf.

It would be an abolute tragedy if the landscape was to be change dramatically.

I do see where your coming from about the forested areas, they are beautiful, but too much wouldn't be a good thing. Would you rather walk through forests with views of only trees or would you rather walk on open fells with beautiful, inspiring vistas in every direction?

I know which I would choose.
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summitzero

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #2 on: 17:47:53, 15/10/08 »
A government 'sub' ?

It may save us having to pay the National Trusts over priced camping fees but then again does'nt the NT own a large portion of the Lakes and don't they get Government cash for the up keep ?

I do agree that we should support the local farmers, thats why i will always try and buy good local farm produce, even if it can be overpriced sometimes.

Maybe they should open more camping/ b&bs, farm shops, tea shops ? I really don't know the answer but i do know that there are more and more people traveling to the Lakes every year so there is some room for diversity, also i have some good friends in the Lakes, whom are very friendly to walkers and campers, knowing that they help bring in extra income but you also have the reverse of this, with some not wanting people on their land, camping and walking, to the extent that they will place locks and barbwire over gates and stiles.

Perhaps a revaluation on were the income is coming from and how best to harness some of its potential is needed ?

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Ridge

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #3 on: 19:05:07, 15/10/08 »
It may save us having to pay the National Trusts over priced camping fees but then again does'nt the NT own a large portion of the Lakes and don't they get Government cash for the up keep ?
The NT do own land in the Lakes but they are not funded by the government at all. Their income is from membership fees, gifts/bequests and overpriced camping fees.

cragster

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #4 on: 22:18:00, 15/10/08 »
How could leaving it in the hands of nature be in any way a bad thing? Nature has always done a better job of looking after things than man ever has.

From what I've seen many farmers tend to pollute the land with there industrial waste and think nohing of leaving empty plastic feed bags etc in ditches and old farm machinery to rot in the corners of fields. You'll see this kind of thing on most farms in the Lakes.

Also you can't find a single square foot of ground in the lakes that isn't covered in sheep s##t.
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Navitimer806

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #5 on: 07:58:58, 16/10/08 »
It's the hill farmers and their sheep that have shaped the lakeland fells that we know and love. Things would look a great deal different if nature had been left to her own accord.

Could you imagine the lakes without dry stone walls? and don't forget many of the tarns and lakes are man made.

Would you rather your taxes go to hard working hill farmers to look after the fells or to eastern european 'asylum seekers'? No contest as far as I am concerned.
"The day that God invented Rugby League, He didn't do anything else but sit around and feel good."

Jack Gibson (1929-2008)
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kirbstones

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #6 on: 10:16:29, 16/10/08 »
Some valid comments here but whilst we all love the Lakes the way they are, is it because we have always known them this way?  When you start to look around, a great deal of the land is already covered with trees and this is an integral part of the landscape.

My first ever visit to the Lakes as a teenager was to stay in St. John's in the Vale and as we drove up past Thirlmere through those majestic pines, it started to snow.  I thought it was just magical and the memory comes back every time I drive that road.  Now the trees have been felled and we have open views of Thirlmere, but the magic has gone.  But here again it was good because it was what I (we) was used to to and felt comfortable with.  The shock of the new is somehow uncomfortable.

Would allowing a gradual return to nature of some of the valleys over say a century, really have any profound effect on peoples views.  Personally I doubt it.  I will not live to see the overall outcome and future generations will in all probability come to love the area as it appears for them at the time they see it. Let's face it, who amongst us would really have appreciated say the Coppermines valley 150 years ago when it would have been an noisy, polluting, industrial powerhouse.
Phil
www.lakeland-walks.co.uk - guided walking in the Lake District and beyond.
www.windermere-way.co.uk - a walk around England's largest lake.

Dik

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #7 on: 22:25:52, 17/10/08 »
An interesting topic and one to which I doubt there is a clear cut answer.

Personally, I have a massive amount of sympathy with the plight of hill farmers and acknowledge that without agricultures influence on the fells and in the valleys then the Lake District wouldnt be the same as the one I love.

It would be interesting to have a time machine to travel backward to see how things were with the forests reaching up to 2000ft though wouldnt it?

Dik

p.s. Isnt Ennerdale currently being allowed to revert back to nature as a trial?





kirbstones

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #8 on: 08:44:32, 18/10/08 »
p.s. Isnt Ennerdale currently being allowed to revert back to nature as a trial?

Yes it is http://www.wildennerdale.co.uk/.  I didn't know about this until a couple of weeks ago when I stayed in the Youth Hostel there.  I'd always thought of Ennerdale as full of Sitka spruce and only to be viewed from a distance (preferably from the top of Great Gable), but it really was a beautiful place and I'll be going back as soon as I can.

I'm sure we all have sympathy for the upland farmers, but if there is no future in sheep farming are we going to spend the next hundred years pretending there is and just keeping sheep on the fells so they look pretty?  I'll be watching Ennerdale with interest.

I also noticed this week that the slopes of Place Fell above Ullswater are turning gold as the birches take on their autumn mantle. Far more interesting than the uniform dull brown of dead bracken.
Phil
www.lakeland-walks.co.uk - guided walking in the Lake District and beyond.
www.windermere-way.co.uk - a walk around England's largest lake.

mike knipe

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #9 on: 17:35:39, 18/10/08 »
Left to its own devices - without sheep -  the Lake District would look much more like Galloway - that is, the hillsides would likely be covered in spruce industrial forestry and the bits in between with thorn/hazel/bramble scrub quite high up to the tops and above that there'd be a lot of straggly heather and tussock grass. Anybody who's tried to bag a galloway minor top will testify to the resistance such a place puts up. Almost had me in tears once or twice and I'm a ruffty tuffty lard-eating Northerner with hairy toes.
Personally, I quite like the open bits nicely manicured by the sheep. If sheep farming isnt economically viable - and to be frank, its been a lot of years since anybody could make much of a living out of it alone, then I dont see a reason why sheep farmers couldnt be paid a reasonable amount for maintaining whats there now.
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Steelystan

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #10 on: 23:52:53, 23/10/08 »
Its a fascinating debate when considered on this small scale, and a slightly futile one on a world scale.  What I suspect is that putting aside the possibility of a certain amount of quarrying, and the tiny amount of erosion by us (it seems massive I know, but in the scheme of things its trivial - just compare the changes to the landscape due to slippage as in the whole of the South east side of Mam Tor in the peak district), we can't affect as much as we'd like to think.  Sure, we chopped down hundreds and thousands of acres of forest, but it would all grow back in say 500 years if we just left it.  This is the blink of an eye in world terms.

I recall a report during the first Gulf war about millions of barrels of oil which the Iraqi's dumped in the Persian Gulf.  The environmentalists were wringing their hands and predicting the water being poisoned for 80 years and maybe never recovering fully etc etc.  It took less than 15 months for the gulf to clean itself up, with no significant help from us.  Of course, it'd be better if it hadn't happened at all.

To nick a line from Crocodile Dundee, we are like fleas arguing about who owns the dog we all live on.  I don't suppose its a good idea to deliberately harm our planet on any scale, but I strongly suspect if it gets uninhabitable for us on this world, it will shrug us off and carry on.  And I just know the last rock I stood on will still be roughly where it is now in ten thousand years.  Humans are arrogant about how important to the world we are, and equally arrogant about how much control we have over nature.  I definitely think we should be slow to chop down any more rain forest as we depend on it so much for our well being, but when I hear the cry that man is ruining the environment, I can't help reminding myself that that notion is very much about our vested interest in preserving an environment that we've evolved to prosper in - in other words, we are only ruining the environment in the sense that it may not be healthy for us.  In any other perspective, we are merely changing the environment - who knows what else might benefit from global warming for example - maybe tubeworms are cheering, lamas laughing their heads off. 

I think I read on this very forum "Don't ever take nature on - you'll lose" (or something close to that anyway).  Great topic.

SS
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cragster

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #11 on: 13:53:33, 24/10/08 »
You are absolutley right SS.

I was watching an article on the news just a couple of days ago about a parasite that has got into the rivers in Norway and is killing the wild Salmon. So the way to solve this is to pump gallons off chemicals into the river which will kill all the fish and parasites alike.

I couldn't help but think that this is just man interferring with nature again and believing that we have the solution because we are so clever. I mean these salmon have probably been around since back when we were clubbing each other over the head and thinking fire was some form of dark magic. I imagine over all those thousands of  years they have encountered all manner of things and survived without human intervention.

If they are threatened it is more likely to be because of over consumption by man, causing there to be insufficient numbers for them to stand a good chance of recovery.

So it begs me to ask the question if the right parasite is being tackled?
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summitzero

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Re: Bleak future for the Lakeland fells
« Reply #12 on: 23:13:57, 26/10/08 »
The NT do own land in the Lakes but they are not funded by the government at all


ERrmm  :-X

True but to a degree, i believe. Let me explain... The National Trust state that they are totally independent of any government support           Because the are a charity            . A charity that gets a government reduced tax rate, funding from the lottery and Princes Trust, whom both have government connections. Also they are one of the major land owners in the U.K but the tax figures in relation to land taxes are debatable... So legally do they own the land........ No the tru owner of the land is the Royal House (the Queen) Now i can hazzard a guess that her tax bill is not totally disclosed.

 So in short they are funded by their members, lottery and The Princes Trust, who,s mum legally owns the land. They don,t like the idea of right to roam ( maybe because they cannot charge) they charge overpriced fees to tax payers to, as they say help with the upkeep of...................what the Queens lands. Maybe just me but does nobody else see this as a bit fishy ?

P.s They also refused myself any free nights stay on my walk, which is one of the main reasons they lost myself and a lot of other people as members.

               Anarchy rules o.k         ;D ;D

Pps. Sorry dont mean to upset anybody..........( me bad)
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