Author Topic: OS Maps and direction indicator  (Read 12033 times)

WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #45 on: 16:52:07, 23/08/20 »
When I said woods were full of walkers it was in reply to you saying that you need GPS to find your way, I was saying that it follows that pre GPS people must have been lost in woods. I just cannot understand people that walk with a GPS device in their hand all the time, why do they need to know exactly where they are all the time?. If they are so worried just stay at home, no sense of adventure albeit on a small scale.

I sometimes use GPS to find my way. I imagine a proportion of the few who do venture further into woods than within dog-walking range of a car park (and I'm talking 'extensive' woods of several square miles here) do get themselves lost for a while. However, I expect that since GPS became widely available, fewer people get lost than before.

I use a handheld GPS, but only when I think it will be of use, otherwise I leave it at home. Personally, I like knowing exactly where I am - and how far there is still to go. I like seeing at a glance the ascents ahead (on a chart as well in addition to contours) and all the other little bonuses a GPS device provides. I also like passing people (usually they're standing by stiles for some reason) who are turning their paper maps this way and that trying to work out which way to go.

But I also like to be adventurous: For example, only this morning my wife and I did a 10km run almost entirely in woodland without the aid of any navigation equipment at all!  10km Woods Run   :)
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RMR

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #46 on: 17:06:59, 23/08/20 »
I'm sure that the people turning maps this way and that are learning more about the landscape than someone staring at a screen. Orientation of the map and taking a bearing are all part of a good walk and also a great skill to have.

WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #47 on: 17:07:22, 23/08/20 »
With ref to hills & moor navigation I totally agree with you.  I would rather be on Kinder Scout in bad weather with map & compass than with a low level battery power GPS.

Now you're skewing the hypothetical proposition by referring to low battery power for the GPS.

To level the playing field, perhaps your soggy paper map could be blown out of your hands and heading for Kinder Downfall...  ;)

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RMR

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #48 on: 17:10:15, 23/08/20 »
Only use waterproof Harvey maps,so not a problem. Also  can usually get across Kinder without a map but carry one just in case.

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #49 on: 17:18:17, 23/08/20 »
I think those going out with a map and compass would probably have at least some idea how to navigate and how to get themselves out of trouble by identifying an escape route that avoids the major hazards. Using a gps or phone app needs no such knowledge, so if things don’t go to plan for many people it can be like lambs to the slaughter.

ninthace

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #50 on: 17:21:27, 23/08/20 »
With ref to hills & moor navigation I totally agree with you.  I would rather be on Kinder Scout in bad weather with map & compass than with a low level battery power GPS.
Conversely - I would rather be in bad country in bad weather with a gps and phone.  For a start they don't flap about or need refolding.  These days the low battery argument is bogus.  I never set off without adequate power reserves anymore than I would have set off without the right map.  My gps batteries will last longer than I can and I have spares.  The phone is a back up to the gps and will last for several days.  In dire straights, I can send an SMS for help and, with the gps, I can tell people precisely where I am.  Moreover, walking with a gps - I never get lost in the first place so way finding is much easier.
Granted, if I was going into rough country and there was the possibility of bad conditions, I might put a map and compass in my pack, as they weigh very little, just as a last resort but I would not expect to use them.  I have been out on Dartmoor, up in the Lakes, out in the North Pennines up in the Dales in next to no visibilty and I have never had to fall back on them since I went over to technology.   I am one of those you will see from time to time walking holding my gps.  It usually means either, I am trying to precisely follow a route I have plotted through bad ground from aerial imagery, or I am trying to stay on a right of way that is not visible on the ground.  It can also mean I am looking for a turning off my current path that is not apparent on the ground.
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WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #51 on: 17:24:07, 23/08/20 »
Only use waterproof Harvey maps,so not a problem. Also  can usually get across Kinder without a map but carry one just in case.

And they can't blow away in bad weather? Fair enough, I expect you use a lanyard.  :)

But you think the battery might run down on my GPS device?  ;)

By an amazing coincidence, my wife and I did a Kinder Scout circuit last year from Hayfield. Pretty hard to get lost with those stone slab paths and extremely worn tracks - not to mention people everywhere!
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WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #52 on: 17:36:53, 23/08/20 »
... or I am trying to stay on a right of way that is not visible on the ground.  It can also mean I am looking for a turning off my current path that is not apparent on the ground.

Thanks for that ninthace, I'd forgotten about following an invisible PRoW.  O0

This is something I have to do a lot, since I do most of my walking over and around agricultural land. I enter a field with a mature crop with no visible path through it where there should be one. Very reluctantly (and if there's no reasonable alternative), I walk through the crop along the precise line of the RoW. (In my mind I'm usually having a conversation with an irate farmer, where I confidently explain that I have every right to be exactly where I am!)

While paper map -users might say they simply walk directly towards the exit of the field, I must point out that a PRoW will not always follow a straight line across a field - dog-legs are common. Also, a hump or whatever in the middle of a field can easily hide the exit.
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ninthace

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #53 on: 17:39:28, 23/08/20 »
I think those going out with a map and compass would probably have at least some idea how to navigate and how to get themselves out of trouble by identifying an escape route that avoids the major hazards. Using a gps or phone app needs no such knowledge, so if things don’t go to plan for many people it can be like lambs to the slaughter.
That is a non sequitur.  As an experienced walker, I can read a map on a screen or paper to get myself out of trouble.  The advantage of a screen is I can relocate my position instantly.  An inexperienced walker can no more make sense of a map on a screen or paper.  At least on a screen they can see where they are so perhaps have a fighting chance. 

Where there have been problems. it transpires the problem is often an inappropriate choice of map such as GoogleMaps.  What we do not have data on is walkers who have not called out the MRTs because they were able to find there way off the hill using a mapping app but would have been incapable of doing it usin a paper map and compass - which is an altogether blacker art.
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Greytop

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #54 on: 17:44:27, 23/08/20 »
With ref to hills & moor navigation I totally agree with you.  I would rather be on Kinder Scout in bad weather with map & compass than with a low level battery power GPS.


I certainly agree there, when out walking I love to use a map to navigate and also to get a flavour of the surrounding area. If I get lost, or I prefer to say go off route🙄🙄
Then my garmin watch gives me a grid reference to tell me where I am.
Where I use a mapping app (os maps) is in cycling. With cycling you can get very lost very quickly and if you are doing a 60 miler you cannot, or don't want to keep stopping and referring to a paper map. So I set the route and follow it on the app. Though I always carry a map just in case, belt and braces!!!!
In the car I don't use my satnav as I prefer to use a road map to get to my destination. The exception to that is if I get to an unknown town and I need to find my way to a particular place, or street.

Greytop

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #55 on: 17:48:26, 23/08/20 »
Quote


By an amazing coincidence, my wife and I did a Kinder Scout circuit last year from Hayfield. Pretty hard to get lost with those stone slab paths and extremely worn tracks - not to mention people everywhere!


Crossing Kinder in a mist is another matter.

WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #56 on: 17:58:02, 23/08/20 »
I think those going out with a map and compass would probably have at least some idea how to navigate and how to get themselves out of trouble by identifying an escape route that avoids the major hazards. Using a gps or phone app needs no such knowledge, so if things don’t go to plan for many people it can be like lambs to the slaughter.

I know I shouldn't generalise from what I do, but I do think I'm fairly typical in this respect...

I spend far, far, far longer working on and planning routes on my PC using the OS Maps website at home than I do looking at my Satmap GPS when out on a walk.

I used to plan walks using a huge paper map spread out on the living room floor and I'd make notes on a piece of paper to take with me along with the map. Now I plan routes on my PC and transfer them to my Satmap. That doesn't mean I've lost the ability to navigate, or to carry a mental image of the basic route in my head, or to make use of the position of the sun and satellite dishes, or to read a map as well as anyone, or even to use a magnetic compass.

My GPS device makes me more adventurous, not less. Not using one ought not to be seen as a badge of honour, just a matter of choice.
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WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #57 on: 18:01:17, 23/08/20 »

Crossing Kinder in a mist is another matter.
So how does using a paper map and compass make life easier in the mist than using the same map on a GPS device? (which, of course, also has a compass). (And yes, I'm carrying spare batteries!  ;) )
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Greytop

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #58 on: 18:14:55, 23/08/20 »
So how does using a paper map and compass make life easier in the mist than using the same map on a GPS device? (which, of course, also has a compass).


It doesn't and I didn't imply that it did, I was replying to a post that stated navigating Kinder on the periphery was easy because it was all slabbed or a well worn route. Crossing Kinder is another matter.

ninthace

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #59 on: 18:18:14, 23/08/20 »

Crossing Kinder in a mist is another matter.
I have been on Kinder in those conditions with a map and compass - not pleasant.  While I have not repeated the experience since with a gps, I have done similar in other areas.  For example, while solo hiking I have navigated to tors on Dartmoor where I have virtually bumped into the tor before I could see it.  I have followed the winding centerline of ridges in the Howgills and the Lakes in less thas 20ft visibility.  There was one occasion leaving the trig point on Ingleborough to find the right path off it, where I could not see more than a few feet, let alone the edges of the summit. Using a gps, one has confidence in both in your position and the direction of travel, even in near zero visibility.  With the best will in the world, the same cannot be said of map and compass navigation, especially across rough or boggy terrain requiring frequent detours from the intended track.
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