GoOutdoors and a Montane Mohawk Jacket fault - Complaint resolved by Montane

[OutdoorsApe]

I've never been one to accept gear that doesn't perform as intended, my mother used to be a lawyer before she retired, and would complain about even the slightest thing until she got what she felt was adequate compensation, and she's still at it! I'm convinced that they have her photo on warehouse dart boards up and down the country!

I have inherited her ability when it comes to my consumer rights, albeit on a toned down scale and considerably less shouty and angry! In fact I actually quite enjoy the process, especially when it results in a senior person getting involved and apologising to me. The amount of things I could list in the 'best gear you have got for free' thread as a result of complaining and senior people making amends on behalf of their underlings might raise a few eyebrows!

Anyway, some of you may be aware from a previous thread that I had some problems with a leaky Rab Latok jacket. I took this back to GoOutdoors after six months of use and after a long (but well mannered and understanding) conversation I got a refund. I then subsequently bought a Montane Mohawk jacket from GO on the 27th of April 2012 (12 days ago) for £261 and have used it twice since. It is an awesome looking jacket with a great fit and has dealt with the recent bad weather admirably.

However, it has developed a problem after only two days outdoors. The left hand 'Napoleon pocket' IE the large pocket on the chest, has developed some wear and a small hole has appeared where an OS Map that I have stored inside the jacket pocket rubs against the waist strap on my backpack.




Edit>> Picture added.




Now then, not being happy about this I took the jacket back to GoOutdoors who said that damage and wear is not covered, I argued fitness for purpose and Sale of Goods act etc... and the best they said they could do is send it back to Montane which would take upto 28days.

Regardless of how much the jacket cost, an outdoors jacket with a map pocket should be able to handle having that pocket containing a map rubbing against the waist strap of a backpack? Am I being unreasonable to expect this? I would expect a replacement whether it was a £40 Regatta or this £261 Montane. It is clearly a fitness for purpose issue. So not satisfied with the response from GoOutdoors and not being in a more argumentative mood (I was with someone at the time who disapproves whenever I switch into complaining mode) I decided that I would undertake the issue with Montane myself, so decided to email them, here is my email that was sent to the only email address I could find on their website.

>>
Hi.

I hope you can help me, I couldn't find a support area.I recently bought a Montane Mohawk jacket from GoOutdoors on the 27th of April 2012.The left hand map pocket has developed some wear and a hole due to the corner of the OS Map (in the map pocket) rubbing against the waist strap of my backpack.Obviously this isn't meant to happen and since the jacket is only ten days old and has only been worn outside twice I took it back to GoOutdoors and they have told me that they have to send it back to you and that this will take upto 28 days. They would not offer a replacement or refund.Is there anything that you can do or advise?Thanks,
<<

Here is the response that I received today;

[personal email from Montane removed - Chris]

Here is my response that I sent about 30 minutes ago;

>>
Thanks for your reply Phil. Just to clarify, why wouldn't it be covered under warranty? The pockets have been designed for Maps and other contents, and the jacket is advertised as being a mountaineering jacket and presumably as such it can be worn under a backpack. If the combination of these two uses results in damage, then  wouldn't it be the case that it is not fit for purpose or has a defect?Thanks again for your response.
<<

I'll upload a photo of the jacket and damage when I get in, any thoughts or ideas for dealing with this would be much appreciated. I'll upload the subsequent response if I get one.

[aljones27]

A map wearing a hole in the map pocket (assuming it is advertised as such) after 2 uses is not fit for purpose.


That is not normal wear and tear IMHO.

[pauldawes]

So Rab's representative thinks best way to deal with a Mountaineering jacket that has a hole worn in it by a map after two outings is to stick some high class gaffer tape on it??? What's it designed for.... a tough day's shopping at Tescos?


Jeez... I assume its going to be one of those cases where you finally get through to some one with a bit of common sense, and you'll get a full refund (or repair if you prefer); an apology; and some more free kit. If not, suppose you can set your mum on case?

[Ian328i]

lol.  I cant believe he suggested you stick a waterproof patch over it!!     And on a  jacket that is nearly new!!  Muppets.
I'll be telling him to stick the patch somewhere else...

[OutdoorsApe]

Here is a picture of the damage.





Interestingly I hadn't turned the pocket inside out before now. The only thing that had been in that pocket is a map, and look at those scratches it has made! The maps I use are the plastic coated OS maps, the plastic is actually rather soft and flexible.


My friend asked how can I be sure that it was caused by something inside of the pocket, well I'm no cool CSI dude, but the way that the fabric has frayed I think shows that it has come from the inside, certainly those scratches are from inside the pocket. Plus since my ultra soft waist strap is covering it, it is protected from all other things I can think of...


Of course there is the added pressure of a very padded Berghaus waist strap on top of the area to take into account, I guess this has caused the map to be tight against the fabric of the pocket.


aljones27 - that's a good point. Napoleon pockets are called such because of Napoleons famous pose with his hand in his breast pocket! On the Montane website it doesn't mention Maps being put in the pocket, however, the fact that it is sized as it is would indicate that it has been designed with maps in mind. Probably most people would agree that it could be referred to as a map pocket with reasonable accuracy.

pauldawes - My mum is enjoying her retirement, plus if I got her involved I'd have to admit to spending £261 on a jacket that I only wear at weekends! I'll see how far I can take it, she'd probably have it dealt with in a 5 minute phone call though.

Ian328i - I know, a rubber patch over a hole in a £261 jacket that has been worn twice!

Edit >> Forgot to add that the hem elasticated waist adjustment cord tie is directly behind the damage on the inside of the coat, that may have caused more pressure.


By the way, I'm interested in hearing opinions regardless of whether they align with mine or not, if someone knows more about the way that eVent fabric frays and thinks I'm wrong, or thinks that the pocket is not intended as a map pocket then I'm totally open to that.

[Hajovi]

By the way, I'm interested in hearing opinions regardless of whether they align with mine or not, if someone knows more about the way that eVent fabric frays and thinks I'm wrong, or thinks that the pocket is not intended as a map pocket then I'm totally open to that.

Uncanny resemblance to my recent/ongoing experience with go-outdoors and e-vent products. 

http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,19293.0.html [nofollow]

[glovepuppet]

So Rab's representative thinks best way to deal with a Mountaineering jacket that has a hole worn in it by a map after two outings is to stick some high class gaffer tape on it???

Actually, it's MONTANE, not Rab! 
 
I'd certainly be interested to here more about this as and when you have any further response. I have a long-held antipathy towards GO over such matters, but it is interesting to see the manufacturers reply - I, too, would have expected a lot better from a brand that is generally held in some esteem.
 
It'd be interesting to get to the bottom of why there seem to be quite a lot more dissatidfied customers (on a variety of brands) than there used to be. Is it also my imagination, or do lots seem to come through GO? That could just be because they are high profile and quite a popular shop at the moment.
 
Whatever, I suspect there could be other factors involved. The constant drive towards lighter products may well have an impact as well (something I have suspected for a few years now - stuff is too lightweight to be as good as it used to be!) and it would be interesting to get a view from manufacturers of these types of products just how long they really expect them to last? It wouldn't be the first time quality control is basically if a customer decides to send it back! 

[marc1970]

I've heard and read that eVent is more prone to damage than Gor-tex, but that on your jacket seems ridiculous. Hard to believe a map could do that much damage. Definately not fit for purpose. I wonder if anyone else has had a similar problem as if the material is so delicate I would imagine it has happened before. If not, then perhaps there was a weakness or fault in the material that the map has unfortunately made worse.

[pauldawes]

Actually, it's MONTANE, not Rab! 
 


 

Oops. Thanks for pointing it out. (That's me getting confused.)


As I plodded into town today, I wondered if it was possible to take up OutdoorsApe's friendly challenge, and come up with a line of reasoning that actually supports the apparent initial Go/ Montane initial stand.


I must admit I can't. Montane's own web site advertises the jacket as suitable for Mountaineering, etc, and describes the pockets as "map sized Napoleon chest pockets". Now... if they then go on to argue... "but we never said you should actually put a map in them" and "we don't believe you should wear a rucksack when mountaineering"... they really would be showing contempt for their customers.


Seriously... I'd be impressed with anybody that came up with a convincing line of argument to support the Go/ Montane's line.

[geordie33]

You have been irresponsible using an expensive walking jacket with a rucksack
This reminds me of my experience of Go Outdoors and Meindl.After my £180 pair of boots failed after only a few miles Meindl said it was my fault as my toe must have rubbed against the boot.Kinder like saying the boots are guaranteed as long as you do not actually walk in them.I wonder if some of the outdoor manufacturers are more concerned with the designer market.I know quite a few people who buy expensive walking labels which then never get further than Sainsburys.
Best of luck with your quest for justice!

[OutdoorsApe]

Montane's own web site advertises the jacket as suitable for Mountaineering, etc, and describes the pockets as "map sized Napoleon chest pockets".

I didn't spot that quote on the website initially, thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to get some mileage out of that!

Might head back to GO and see what their response is, even they should see that the advice from montane to stick a rubber patch on it is ludicrous. Ultimately it is GO who are obliged to replace the jacket since the 'contract of sale' is between them and me, so it is they who need convincing.

I wonder if Montane appreciate that this thread is on the front page of google search results for 'montane mohawk jacket'?

[glovepuppet]

I wonder if Montane appreciate that this thread is on the front page of google search results for 'montane mohawk jacket'?

They could always be pointed in that direction if need be. 

[rdpounder]

Go Outdoors are totally wrong on this one.  It'd be like buying a new mountain bike and the tyres wearing out after a couple of rides on rough ground and then the shop saying "well, the damage has been caused by riding the bike on rough ground so it's not covered by the warranty I'm afraid"

[OutdoorsApe]

I received a reply from Montane today.

>>
[personal email from Montane removed - Chris]
<<

Went to GO last night and they said again that they would have to send it off, I asked about what I was supposed to do in the meantime without a waterproof and they said "It'll only be a few weeks at most."  They also said that sticking a waterproof patch over the damage would invalidate the warranty with them and that I should leave it as it is if I intend to have it sent back to Montane.

[Frogman]

Hi, interesting problem.  Should your hip belt on the pack not sit round your hips?  Maybe that is the cause of the problem?
The reason for posting is that I have a Mohawk (bought from GO also  ) and I love it, use it for climbing n mountain walking. It about a 1 1/2 year old now and is only showing wear on the forearms, probably from me scraping around gullys last winter!