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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: Ronin83 on 19:40:39, 03/01/19

Title: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 19:40:39, 03/01/19
I've been thinking about midayers.
Considering on the salkantay trek to machu pichu(going in April) gets down to a possible -10°c, hopefully not that cold in April, I was looking into down jackets, but ive ruled them out and never particularly liked them anyway.


I have a fair collection of fleeces already. My concern is will I be warm enough? My plan is...icebreaker merino baselayer, t-shirt, fleece then waterproof jacket on top.
I reckon that'll be more than enough whilst hiking, but when stopping? By camp at night? I do have a big warm, waterproof coat, but that would add considerable weight, not pack small etc.


So...now im thinking about buying a good quality heavy fleece. Im not sure if im just being fussy. Ive always thought a fleece is a fleece. I have found this...


https://www.hellyhansen.com/en_gb/juell-pile-jacket-51806 (https://www.hellyhansen.com/en_gb/juell-pile-jacket-51806)


 Which i particularly like the look of as it has thinner material under the arms to stop sweating so much(I run hot when walking), but LOOKS super fluffy and warm.
Other than polartec 100,200,300 how can you tell the warmth? Does the 'pile' make a difference?


What do people think?
Thanks
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:08:29, 03/01/19

I can't comment on the pile jacket that you mention, but I am certainly a fan of fibre pile. I currently have two jackets that I would describe as a fleece outer layer with fibre pile on the inside. These were pretty cheap, one made by Regatta, and one by Hoggs of Fife. With a shell jacket over the top, they are pretty warm, but they are not the lightest. I also wear fibre pile salopettes in winter - toasty!


Also - have you looked at the Buffalo range of fibre pile/pertex jackets?
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/mountain-jacket/ (http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/mountain-jacket/)




Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: sussamb on 20:29:37, 03/01/19
I've been thinking about midayers.
Considering on the salkantay trek to machu pichu(going in April) gets down to a possible -10°c, hopefully not that cold in April, I was looking into down jackets, but ive ruled them out and never particularly liked them anyway.


Why did you rule them out?  Probably the best solution.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: jimbob on 20:35:13, 03/01/19
Down jackets are the bees knees. Ultra light,  very warm, very small pack space if not needed on the body. Topped with a waterproof layer and over a decent base layer ( or two if very very cold.)
lb for £ down is the best.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 21:09:08, 03/01/19
Down jackets don't breathe and wick when active, they suck when they get wet(with sweat or damp as well as rain), they damage very easily, decent ones, especially with hydrodown or whatever, are expensive, they're too puffy under my waterproof and I don't like the feel of them against my skin if Im wearing a t-shirt underneath.


I've seen insulation sticking out of down jackets all the time. I don't really want a jacket which is only useful in dry cold whilst not moving and being careful what i brush against.


Enough reasons?
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 21:17:08, 03/01/19
To add, I do understand theyre super light and compactible.
I also don't really like the use of down on moral grounds.


Regarding buffalo...
Like I said I have a big warm waterproof coat, but I'm trying to stick with layering so I don't have to take it.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: sussamb on 21:51:35, 03/01/19
Down jackets don't breathe and wick when active, they suck when they get wet(with sweat or damp as well as rain), they damage very easily, decent ones, especially with hydrodown or whatever, are expensive, they're too puffy under my waterproof and I don't like the feel of them against my skin if Im wearing a t-shirt underneath.


I've seen insulation sticking out of down jackets all the time. I don't really want a jacket which is only useful in dry cold whilst not moving and being careful what i brush against.


Enough reasons?


Not really as you were talking about in camp etc. For that they're perfect. As for the ethical side, buy synthetic  O0
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 21:58:13, 03/01/19
To add, I do understand theyre super light and compactible.
I also don't really like the use of down on moral grounds.

Regarding buffalo...
Like I said I have a big warm waterproof coat, but I'm trying to stick with layering so I don't have to take it.

Fair comment about Buffalo.

I too share your dislike of down. This stems from a night spent camping with the cadet force when I was 15 - I had a huge US Marines arctic issue down bag that was my fathers. Unfortunately it rained torrentially in the night, and the old canvas army tents didn't have groundsheets (we were using old army capes). The ground was awash and it was like lying in a wet sponge. Eventually we abandoned the camp and spent the night in the hay loft of a barn above some cows. This was my first night ever camping - it is a wonder that I wasn't put off for life!
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Summit on 22:00:18, 03/01/19
I agree with you regards down. In the UK especially its just too damp so if you are out for longer than a simple day they are a nightmare to keep dry.


From my own experience of using pile I used buffalo and montane extreme jackets and both work well but the downside is the weight.


As an alternative to look at Rab Vapour Rise is a good lightweight warm mid layer that you might want to have a look at.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Innominate Man on 23:55:41, 03/01/19
The initial post and link to the HH pile fleece reminds me of the types that were common in the 70s - which seemed to be much thicker than the present fleece materials.
Seem to think they were made by North Cape or Javelin (or maybe both companies produced similar). Presumably, despite the older ones looking fluffier the modern materials give better performance ?


Apologies for moving off subject. I do like the look of that HH item though.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: staggerindragon on 00:34:49, 04/01/19
When we ski in -10C temperatures, and are very active, the usual sport layers (merino/fleece) work well.  However, we always carry bigger puffy coats for lunch stops.


I walk to work in all weather and around -10, I start wearing my favorite wind blocking, fleece lined hiking trousers, merino top and a lightweight puffy coat under a wind breaking layer. If there's any kind of breeze, I don't get that sweaty, really, but you're right.  They're less breathable. I have both synthetic and down with down winning for warmth. As it gets colder, ski pants and a heavier coat go on, and I'm happy if I work my way up to sweatiness.  ;)


What about coming up with a combo of base/fleece/puffy gear that you could adjust based on conditions?
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: NeilC on 00:51:26, 04/01/19
If I'm camping or just standing around at -10c I want an insulated jacket - down or synthetic.


Trying to keep warm at those temps, when stopped, using fleece or pile would mean carrying way too much weight and wearing too many layers to be comfy.


If you're worried about wet weather performance then Paramo do insulated jackets that wick, breath and deal with rain to a extent. Although isnt Machu Pichu cold and dry?
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:35:57, 04/01/19
@ Ronin


Why not compromise and get a down (or synthetic) padded gilet just for camp use?


eg: https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/the-henry-padded-mens-gilet-p15081.aspx/Black/?rrec=true (https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/the-henry-padded-mens-gilet-p15081.aspx/Black/?rrec=true)
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 08:25:12, 04/01/19
If I'm camping or just standing around at -10c I want an insulated jacket - down or synthetic.


Trying to keep warm at those temps, when stopped, using fleece or pile would mean carrying way too much weight and wearing too many layers to be comfy.


If you're worried about wet weather performance then Paramo do insulated jackets that wick, breath and deal with rain to a extent. Although isnt Machu Pichu cold and dry?


Yeh paramo stuff looks awesome, but im not looking to spend that kind of money right now, especially on something which I don't need (other than for the salkantay).

Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 08:30:31, 04/01/19
@ Ronin


Why not compromise and get a down (or synthetic) padded gilet just for camp use?


eg: https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/the-henry-padded-mens-gilet-p15081.aspx/Black/?rrec=true (https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/the-henry-padded-mens-gilet-p15081.aspx/Black/?rrec=true)


Now I did consider that. I always think theres too much material/insulation under arm on most tops. You really don't need anything clogging up your pits. Can't say I've never longed for warmer arms.


Would a warm down gilet really be so much lighter than a fleece one though?

Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: NeilC on 08:43:01, 04/01/19

Now I did consider that. I always think theres too much material/insulation under arm on most tops. You really don't need anything clogging up your pits. Can't say I've never longed for warmer arms.


Would a warm down gilet really be so much lighter than a fleece one though?


Yes it would. Much warmer and much less restrictive than the amount of fleece you need to stay warm around camp.


Down/padding is a much better, lighter and more compressible insulator.


That's why all arctic and other cold weather trekkers and mountaineers use them.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: fernman on 09:27:02, 04/01/19
Another point in favour of a down jacket is that its shell is likely to stop any light breeze going through it, unlike fleece.

A couple of people have suggested synthetic as opposed to down. I've had one, a Snugpak Sleeka, which was excellent: very warm, windproof, no worries about it getting damp, but quite heavy when compared to a down one.

The initial post and link to the HH pile fleece reminds me of the types that were common in the 70s - which seemed to be much thicker than the present fleece materials.
Seem to think they were made by North Cape or Javelin (or maybe both companies produced similar). Presumably, despite the older ones looking fluffier the modern materials give better performance?

North Cape is correct, I still have my old one from the late 80s. Stiff, restrictive, heavy and very bulky, it was warm on top of other layers but never felt "cosy". I now use it for cold-weather garden jobs, car washing, etc.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 09:30:40, 04/01/19
Would a warm down gilet really be so much lighter than a fleece one though?



You would get significantly more warmth per gram from down than fleece.


If you chose the size carefully, you could probably wear the gilet over a fleece, and finish off with your waterproof shell.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: fernman on 09:53:48, 04/01/19
If you chose the size carefully, you could probably wear the gilet over a fleece, and finish off with your waterproof shell.

A tip from experience: When choosing a jacket or gilet make sure you try it on over everything you might wear underneath it. I ended up buying a down jacket two sizes bigger than I thought I was going to need. Fortunately the seller was very good about two returns.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 11:14:38, 04/01/19
Sound advice, fernman
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: NeilC on 11:20:17, 04/01/19
You can pick up an ethically sourced down jacket from Decathlon for £50


If you wanted to, you could make it hydrophobic using Nikwax's downproof. I've done it with a sleeping bag and it did a pretty good job.


Or a synthetic jacket can be washing in Nikwax for extra resistance


I picked up a Paramo gillet for £60 on eBay - new.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 11:28:25, 04/01/19
Thanks for the advice guys.


I'd try to go with synthetic down, not real, but like mentioned, it's usually heavier and less compactible?


I'd probs were it underneath a fleece I've already got if needed to reduce bulk.


I'll point out though, im guessing about warmth whilst hiking in -5 to -10. It may come to having to use this new layer for more than just camp. I hope not and don't think so tho. If it goes in the bag on the horse I won't have access to it until the end of the day anyway.


If I go for the synth down gilet option, any recommendations?


What about a fleece gilet?
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 11:40:17, 04/01/19
I'd probs were it underneath a fleece I've already got if needed to reduce bulk.



Wear it over the top of the fleece, Ronin. Size accordingly.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: NeilC on 11:42:14, 04/01/19
You wouldn't put it under a fleece. You want to keep it lofted so under your shell or on top of everything.


A synthetic jacket is heavier and less compressible but still way better than fleece, and a perfectly valid choice.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 11:50:33, 04/01/19
Ok that makes sense, on top
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Owen on 13:43:00, 04/01/19
I spent a lot of time in Peru and Bolivia in the late eighties and early nineties, it's a fantastic place. On the Altiplano there's little cloud cover so nothing to hold the heat in. By day it can be extremely hot although it's always windy and the wind can be very cold. Trekking trousers and a base layer and fleece with a wind proof top are generally what you'll need. Plus of course a sun hat and a warm hat and gloves.
As soon as the sun goes down it goes breath takingly bone chillingly cold, the difference between night and day is mind blowing. Your fibre pile jacket is no warmer than a medium fleece and it's not at all windproof. Really you'll want that and a Duvet type jacket either down or synthetic. If you don't want to spend the money go on fleebay or they often come up for sale on UKC, you can off load it there after you come back.
Waterproof clothing isn't so important except on the coast Lima is always damp, cold and miserable, you'll be using your cag as a windproof a lot of the time.
Never trust the water, ice cream, ice in drinks and salads washed under the tap are especially bad. Conversely, junk food from street venders when sizzlingly hot is usually safe. Home made chocolate often sold by Camposini on the streets is also very dodgy.           
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 16:23:00, 04/01/19
I spent a lot of time in Peru and Bolivia in the late eighties and early nineties, it's a fantastic place. On the Altiplano there's little cloud cover so nothing to hold the heat in. By day it can be extremely hot although it's always windy and the wind can be very cold. Trekking trousers and a base layer and fleece with a wind proof top are generally what you'll need. Plus of course a sun hat and a warm hat and gloves.
As soon as the sun goes down it goes breath takingly bone chillingly cold, the difference between night and day is mind blowing. Your fibre pile jacket is no warmer than a medium fleece and it's not at all windproof. Really you'll want that and a Duvet type jacket either down or synthetic. If you don't want to spend the money go on fleebay or they often come up for sale on UKC, you can off load it there after you come back.
Waterproof clothing isn't so important except on the coast Lima is always damp, cold and miserable, you'll be using your cag as a windproof a lot of the time.
Never trust the water, ice cream, ice in drinks and salads washed under the tap are especially bad. Conversely, junk food from street venders when sizzlingly hot is usually safe. Home made chocolate often sold by Camposini on the streets is also very dodgy.         


Thanks for the advice.
On the salkantay, the highest point is the pass at 4500m. That's where it'll be coldest. Many people have experienced rain on this trek so even in April it's very possible. My raincoat will be my outer windproof shell. It is highly advised everywhere to bring waterproofs.


The trek does then descend into jungle environment and hot, humid conditions.


As I said I do run hot and my back sweats a lot when on the move, but I feel the cold all the more when I've rested. Thats why I was a avoiding down jacket material too, wouldn't be great against my sweaty back
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Owen on 17:32:12, 04/01/19


As I said I do run hot and my back sweats a lot when on the move, but I feel the cold all the more when I've rested.


That's just the point, you'll be stopping just as it gets dark, just as the temperature drops like a stone. That's when you need to pile everything on, put your fleece/pile top on first so you're duvet jacket isn't against your skin. When you're in you're sleeping bag you can also lay your jacket over your shoulders, just hope you don't need to go in the night.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Mel on 17:53:41, 04/01/19

Twice I've been caught out with "foreign" climates.  Once in New York State on a boiling hot day in July - me and a pal in shorts and t-shirts decided to go visit a wolf sanctuary up in the mountains (guided tour).  [censored] freezing with snow on the reserve in the mountains.  Luckily the tour guides were used to this happening and loaned us both the most stinkyest, horriblest, ill-fitting jackets they had in "lost property".


The second time was a 2 day trip to the Sahara desert.  Typically bakingly hot and desert-like during the day.  Come night time the temperature plummeted to below freezing.  Guess who wasn't expecting that from a "desert"?  Aye, me.  We were even told to pack warm clothes for the evening ... so I took a fleece that I'd flown in!  Woefully inadequate, even indoors.


Even in this country, camping - sitting in my tent on a night, it's cold and I wear a padded jacket (synthetic as I too don't "do" down for ethical reasons).


So.... If a donkey is carrying your gear to each stopping for the evening point then get an insulated jacket for the evening that can go in your camp pack.  That way you've got something warm and dry (not sweat wicked) to sit around in.


On the move, if layers work for you then stick with that.


Anyhow, that's my two-penneth's worth  :)
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: mow1701 on 19:38:32, 04/01/19
Fleeces are warm but as soon as there is a wind I feel the cold unless it is a wind bloc fleece. Also fleeces are very bulky.  I have a rab synthetic jacket(generator)made with primaloft with a shower proof shell. It keeps me warm when damp, is less bulky than a fleece and weigh less than a fleece. I think they do a newer version with a different name or montane prism jacket. Used as part of layering system in all seasons.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: mow1701 on 19:40:07, 04/01/19
Fleeces are warm but as soon as there is a wind I feel the cold unless it is a wind bloc fleece. Also fleeces are very bulky.  I have a rab synthetic jacket(generator)made with primaloft with a shower proof shell. It keeps me as warm as a heavy weight fleece even if  damp, is less bulky than a fleece and weigh less than a fleece. I think they do a newer version with a different name or montane prism jacket. Used as part of layering system in all seasons.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 23:19:40, 04/01/19
Wind isn't an issue as I can have my Berghaus waterproof shell on top.


I am still considering just taking my big ass, warm fishing jacket(I don't fish). We get to load 7kg each in a duffel bag which has to include the rest of clothes etc.



I've been looking and this is what I've found as budget synth down options...


https://www.craghoppers.com/cmb789-800-midas-vest-black/

 
https://www.craghoppers.com/craghoppers-compresslite-iii-hooded-jacket-deep-blue/

 
https://www.craghoppers.com/compresslite-vest-ii-black/

 
https://www.millets.co.uk/mens/081399-regatta-mens-icebound-iv-jacket-grey.html
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:25:54, 05/01/19
If it is going to be carried by a horse, then you could go for a cheap jacket as weight isn't an issue, extra large so that you can throw it on over the top of everything. I would imagine that something like the Peter Storm Icebound would do the job.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 12:36:26, 06/01/19
If it is going to be carried by a horse, then you could go for a cheap jacket as weight isn't an issue, extra large so that you can throw it on over the top of everything. I would imagine that something like the Peter Storm Icebound would do the job.


*Regatta icebound


Yeh, well that one and the craghoppers compresslite 3 are both really cheap on certain websites right now, so there certainly are options.


So my main question is... Do I really need one?
Who has spent time camping and hiking in -10(potentially)?
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: forgotmyoldpassword on 13:12:07, 06/01/19
By the sound of it, you'd do well with a cheap 100wt fleece by any brand you want (£10-20?) and buy a down gillet on top.  Most gillets have decent windproof fabric which will keep your core protected from gusts, it's a modular system so if you get too warm you can roll your sleeves up/take off the gillet and not have a single massive jacket.  Probably find one in sales around £60-80.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: richardh1905 on 13:26:54, 06/01/19
As it is just for evening use, and you are not carrying it, I would even consider trawling any local charity shops for an old ski jacket.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Owen on 15:41:57, 06/01/19
As I said I've spent a lot of time in the Andes, first time went for four months I took an old Ultimate Parka, hollfill insulation and reasonably light for the time (about 1kg). Worn over a base layer shirt (Northcape) and an old style Heli Hanson Blue fiber pile it wasn't warm enough at 5000m.
Second time I went for nearly nine months, this time I took a Rab down jacket same weight as the Ultimate parka but twice as warm. I also took a much warmer sleeping bag and was a lot more comfortable. I still have the down jacket it doesn't get used much in this country but when I go skiing especially in Scandinavia it always goes with me.
Camping out in -10C weather requires the right frame of mind, you seem to be taking it very lightly. "Can I get away without this" "do I really need that". Start taking it seriously or prepare to suffer. Get the best gear you can afford, you can always sell it on afterwards.       
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 15:59:07, 06/01/19
By the sound of it, you'd do well with a cheap 100wt fleece by any brand you want (£10-20?) and buy a down gillet on top.  Most gillets have decent windproof fabric which will keep your core protected from gusts, it's a modular system so if you get too warm you can roll your sleeves up/take off the gillet and not have a single massive jacket.  Probably find one in sales around £60-80.


Ill be taking/wearing a fleece anyway.
£60-80?  :-[ Oh ive found plenty much cheaper than that.


I saw the icebound IV in a shop today. Felt exactly like down! I was very surprised.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 16:12:37, 06/01/19
As I said I've spent a lot of time in the Andes, first time went for four months I took an old Ultimate Parka, hollfill insulation and reasonably light for the time (about 1kg). Worn over a base layer shirt (Northcape) and an old style Heli Hanson Blue fiber pile it wasn't warm enough at 5000m.
Second time I went for nearly nine months, this time I took a Rab down jacket same weight as the Ultimate parka but twice as warm. I also took a much warmer sleeping bag and was a lot more comfortable. I still have the down jacket it doesn't get used much in this country but when I go skiing especially in Scandinavia it always goes with me.
Camping out in -10C weather requires the right frame of mind, you seem to be taking it very lightly. "Can I get away without this" "do I really need that". Start taking it seriously or prepare to suffer. Get the best gear you can afford, you can always sell it on afterwards.       


Thanks so much for your advice. That's really what I needed to know. Its been so mild here recently it's hard to imagine real cold. Gonna have to up my game...and convince the missus she needs one too.


The highest point is 4500m, but you don't camp there. They do also provide a proper winter sleeping bag rated to -18°c plus liner.

Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: NeilC on 16:15:55, 06/01/19
Not sure how many times it can be stated - yes you're gonna need a warm jacket.


I was backpacking recently and evening temps dropped to -5C.


I had a baselayer, fleece, light down jacket and Paramo jacket and I was bloody freezing and had to retreat to my sleeping bag. Next time I'll take a warmer jacket.


Ask the trip organisers for recommendations
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 17:16:56, 06/01/19
Not sure how many times it can be stated - yes you're gonna need a warm jacket.


No need for the attitude mate.
That wasn't even the subject

Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Owen on 17:27:28, 06/01/19

 They do also provide a proper winter sleeping bag rated to -18°c plus liner.


It might be worth asking whether they also provide jackets/clothing. Who are you going with?
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Owen on 17:38:16, 06/01/19
Just a tip, a silk balaclava weights next to nothing and slips into your pocket, their great for sleeping in. At -10C you can feel the mucus in your nasal passages start to freeze and "crackle". The temptation is to put your head in the sleeping bag, this leads to your breath forming condensation within the down, this then freezes not nice to wake up to. Putting on a balaclava keeps your head warmish so you can keep your face out of the sleeping bag. Also keep a pair of dry bed socks.   
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Ronin83 on 17:42:05, 06/01/19

It might be worth asking whether they also provide jackets/clothing. Who are you going with?


No they dont.
Sleeping bags, walking poles are extras, but we got a special offer/package.
You actually stay in glass domes on 2 of the nights, but apparently they can be as cold as tents. Another night is in tents which are inside 'andean huts' which I guess adds extra cover for any serious rain.
It's certainly not the most hardcore version(we want to actually enjoy it), but not the wimpiest either(there's one which included too many buses and activities).


I know someone who just went to morrocco and half the kit recommended was a waste of time. Better safe than sorry though I guess


Salcantaytrekking.com
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: NeilC on 20:00:39, 06/01/19

No need for the attitude mate.
That wasn't even the subject


Theres no attitude. I'm trying to help.


I was responding to your comment "do I really need one?"


Sorry if I've offended you.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Magic girl on 15:06:56, 08/01/19
I can certainly recommend the craghoppers compress lite jacket,I bought mine last year for £30 and my hubby and son also have one and they certainly do the job of keeping you warm.I have a more expensive arcteryx jacket but the craghoppers is definitely warmer.
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: Arns111 on 14:36:11, 13/01/19
I would go for an arcteryx atom it hoody


Warm superlightweight and synthetic so good when wet
Title: Re: New 'quality' fleece or not bother?
Post by: nesty on 16:35:29, 13/01/19
I recently bought a Mountain Equipment Frontier (Softshell), I got it price matched +10% from Go Outdoors. It's quite windproof and has DWR, so repellent of water to a moderate rainfall (I yet to test that), it's very light and I went for next size up to get a fleece underneath.