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Regions - Trip reports, destination advice, recommended routes, etc. => Lake District => Topic started by: April on 21:34:38, 19/10/17

Title: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 21:34:38, 19/10/17
https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/10/19/thirlmere-zipwire-firm-says-consultation-showed-most-in-favour-of-plans

The comments below are interesting. Those who know me will know my feelings on this, for those who don't know me I quote Andy Browns response "This zip wire idea is an abomination"

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: stubill on 00:02:59, 20/10/17
It's very easy to produce an image showing the minimal visual impact the wires might have, what it doesn't show is the points of leaving and landing, or the extra traffic, car parking etc.


Another thing that an image can never show is the shouting and screaming that always accompanies these things, so much for the peace and tranquillity of the lakes.


Maybe I'm speaking out of turn, as I'm not familiar with the area, but I hate our countryside being eroded by businesses, eroded may be a bit strong in this case, but you get my point.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:32:09, 20/10/17
Hi stubill, you are not speaking out of turn. Thirlmere is probably the most tranquil of the lakes, yes its is man made but it makes no difference to me. Man can sometimes make beautiful things and Thirlmere is beautiful. The argument that Tree top Treks makes that it will generate income for the area is a load of rubbish. The only income it will generate is for Tree top Treks. There aren't that many businesses in the area anyway and from what I've read on other forums/fb pages the residents and businesses in the area are against the plan.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 09:07:05, 20/10/17
Let's hope they block this from happening
I wonder what wainwright would say about it
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 09:11:42, 20/10/17
I love comments like
Quote
The company behind plans to build two zipwires across Thirlmere in the Lake District said most people who responded to a consultation were in favour of the project.
with no context as to who was consulted or how. It appears it was on the companies own website.

If anyone has a link to formally object if/when this goes to planning please post.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 11:33:52, 20/10/17
If anyone has a link to formally object if/when this goes to planning please post.

Will do  :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Penygadair on 18:17:52, 20/10/17
An atrocious proposal.


I stopped at Thirlmere on the way to Keswick and although I couldn't see the other side of the lake through the clag I was struck by the beauty of what I could see. Can't see this getting planning permission.  :knuppel2: :knuppel2:
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:39:16, 23/10/17
Do the people in area need jobs? Would a zip wire create jobs, both direct and indirect? Would a zip wire help the economy after Brexit? Should the Lakes become a theme park?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 21:32:07, 23/10/17
Can't see this getting planning permission.  :knuppel2: :knuppel2:

It shouldn't get planning permission but some crazy things can happen sometimes

Do the people in area need jobs? Would a zip wire create jobs, both direct and indirect? Would a zip wire help the economy after Brexit? Should the Lakes become a theme park?

Here are the answers GWM

No, not many, no the economy is doomed and bleddy hell no  :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 22:35:08, 24/10/17
There is a facebook page called Zip Off. Like the page and you will get updates and news about the planning application if/when it is submitted

https://www.facebook.com/zipoffThirlmere/?hc_ref=ARRspoJ-2UFZmDfRiE93kljseN8GVuorv18gRsq_cOzW7AEaLF9RAcEndJe_-CpRCno&fref=nf

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:52:04, 25/10/17
Personally I would not be keen on the idea but obviously decisions do get made and I often wonder on what basis do ideas like this get accepted? As an older person I am aware that we live in an entertainment age, is this a possible route to get accepted, would it be 'sold' to our decision makers as 'Disney for the masses', or 'bread and circuses' perhaps to get more votes for local politicians, who knows? I know the basic views about being an eyesore, blight on the lanscape, doesn't fit in with the environment, but if you are a person or company trying to 'sell' an idea, to make profit, etc, what unique selling proposition might you use to get your way? Of course we must not forget if the approach of 'greasing a palm or two with silver' might help?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: jamiek on 11:32:47, 25/10/17
I think the people going on a zipwire won't care where it is, they just want the thrill.


If they want to do it over water, go buy some land and make your own.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Forkbeard on 19:51:31, 25/10/17
Going on my limited previous experience of zip wires, this sounds like an awful idea. It sounds like a complete eyesore, nevermind something that would alter the entire 'mood' of the area.


I have nothing against zip lines and went to the Zipworld line in Snowdonia and had no issue with it. It makes perfect sense at the location it's in and has minimum impact on the wider area. The actual site is a disused slate mine, more or less hidden until you're right on top of it. and it's just the sort of re-use of post industrial land I'm in favour of. This Thirlemere plan on the other hand seems like a travesty of monumental proportions.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Forkbeard on 19:55:55, 25/10/17
It's very easy to produce an image showing the minimal visual impact the wires might have, what it doesn't show is the points of leaving and landing, or the extra traffic, car parking etc.


Agreed. The Zipworld site in Snowdonia is a pretty big site all in all and i dont' think the artists impression of this one even begins to convey the whole impact of the site.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 14:12:30, 28/10/17
I think the people going on a zipwire won't care where it is, they just want the thrill.


If they want to do it over water, go buy some land and make your own.

Exactly, there must be any number of disused quarries/open cast mines that could be repurposed as activity centres, with much better transport links which they would have needed to get the ore etc. out.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 14:14:10, 28/10/17
Dirty tricks ?

https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/10/26/friends-of-lake-district-issue-statement-after-innacurate-thirlmere-zipwire-post
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: GeoffB on 14:41:32, 01/11/17
I agree with the comments here. This is a bad idea. And seriously, who actually believes that the motives of this company have anything to do with anything but making money for themselves and their shareholders? They claim that the number of young people visiting the Lake District has declined and their project would help to counteract that, but all it will do is attract the kind of people who just want instant gratification and cannot be bothered to actually get up off their backside (and away from their smartphones) and exert themselves for more than a few minutes at a time. In the spirit of the age, they just want to spend obscene amounts of money getting a thrill with the minimum amount of effort.


If we want more young people to experience the Lake District, would it not be better to encourage them to get out and learn to appreciate the outdoors and the value of physical exercise, at the same time educating them so that they do so with a minimum of impact on the environment? I'm thinking here about teaching them, for example, NOT to leave their d**n water bottles lying around after them wherever they go!


Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 16:21:23, 02/11/17
GeoffB, thank you for your post. It is a very well written one and sums up what most people feel about this proposal  O0

Yes Dirty Tricks from Tree Top Treks who are only in it to make money for themselves  :(
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 20:08:05, 13/11/17
On Look North tonight the news is that Tree Top Treks have submitted their planning application to the LDNP today. There isn't anything on the LDNP website as yet, I will keep checking the site and let people know when it is on there so they can voice their opposition. Surely there can't be many people who love Lakeland that will think this is a good idea despite the spin that money grabbing Mike Turner puts on the plan?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: tenmilesplus on 20:21:41, 13/11/17
Great spot April... Please keep us informed.. Thanks.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 12:22:59, 23/11/17
The planning application has now been added on the LDNP website. It seems I am unable to copy the link directly on here as I understand I might be in trouble if I copy any of the website?  (see the license agreement) :-\ I may be taking the instructions too literally? Sorry my brain has turned to mush these last few weeks  :-[

If you google:

ldnp weekly list of planning applications

it brings up the license agreement, click on agree then click on this weeks applications (week beginning 20th Nov 17). It is listed under Thirmere Activity Hub.

At the bottom it has a link to Important Information about the application that has an email address to put your thoughts forward.

I've copied this info from Zip Offs facebook page, I'm sure they have no objections to me copying it!

Here are local councillors to write to regarding concerns over planning application.

Keswick ward councillors contact information

Councillor Ron Manby- Conservative
 2 The Grange
 Isel
 Cockermouth
 CA3 0QG
 Phone: 01900 829625
 Email: [email protected]

Councillor Tony Lywood- Labour
 7 Penrith Rd
 Keswick
 CA12 AHF?
 Phone: 01768 7725253
 Email: [email protected]

Councillor Martin Pugmire- Independent
 6 Brandlehow Crescent
 Keswick
 CA12 4JE
 Phone: 01768 773409
 Email: [email protected]

I will keep checking Zip Offs fb page to see if they provide more information of where to voice your opinion.

Edited to add this link from Friends of the Lake District website

https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Pages/FAQs/Category/current-planning-applications
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 16:04:05, 23/11/17
There is now a more comprehensive response from Friends of the Lake District, here is the link:

https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/news/thirlmere-activity-hub-application

It has full details of how to respond to the planning application.

I will be opposing it of course, I am seething with anger and have been for months. If this gets the go ahead you can say goodbye to the Lake District.  If a precedent is set there could be no future objection afterwards for plans for zip wires across every lake, tarn and fell top and goodness knows what else greedy developers would think of to rake in the cash.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 16:25:08, 23/11/17

I will be opposing it of course, I am seething with anger and have been for months. If this gets the go ahead you can say goodbye to the Lake District.  If a precedent is set there could be no future objection afterwards for plans for zip wires across every lake, tarn and fell top and goodness knows what else greedy developers would think of to rake in the cash.
Well said Ape, we don't want the lake district turning into another Alton towers  >:(
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 00:03:18, 24/11/17
https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/11/23/formal-plans-submitted-to-lakes-authority-for-two-thirlmere-zipwires

contains a direct link to the application.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 08:20:57, 24/11/17
https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/11/23/formal-plans-submitted-to-lakes-authority-for-two-thirlmere-zipwires (https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/11/23/formal-plans-submitted-to-lakes-authority-for-two-thirlmere-zipwires)

contains a direct link to the application.
If you want to support or possibly even object to this application then you should email [email protected] quoting planning reference 7/2017/2298
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:57:46, 24/11/17
Thanks Strider and Ridge for the links  O0

For those wishing to object to the plans, the Friends of  the Lake District has listed areas of concern to focus on, the issues that conflict with LDNPA policy.

https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Pages/FAQs/Site/thirlmere/Category/write-to-the-planning-authority

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 14:20:20, 24/11/17
For those not on facebook, Zip Off have a website now

http://zipoff.org/

Reading the page just now, they will have an online petition up and running soon, I will post the link on here, so those that want to object can sign the petition too.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 16:57:17, 24/11/17
Here is the link to the online petition against the proposed zip wire

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/say-no-to-zip-wires-across-thirlmere?source=facebook-share-button&time=1511534681

Remember to also email your thoughts about the proposal to the LDNP to this email address: [email protected]
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Steve18566 on 19:43:30, 24/11/17
Signed, and shared to facebook, hoping many others will sign.



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: tenmilesplus on 00:15:44, 25/11/17
Signed and shared on FB..

 O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 09:54:59, 25/11/17

Remember to also email your thoughts about the proposal to the LDNP to this email address: [email protected]

As April said, do both.


Thousands of formal objections through the proper channels will carry much more weight than the petition.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: tonyk on 16:50:10, 25/11/17
 Quote: "a world-class visitor attraction for the area"

 A zipwire over a small lake? ;D I am quite sure that people with young famillies are going to pay thousands in airfares to visit that "attraction".Surely they would do better targeting the age group that is attracted to the Lakes in the first place,ie,over forty fives.The drop in younger people might be more to do with incomes being squeezed than lack of interest in the area.

 The hills are being used more and more by cowboys who are only interested in making a fast buck.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: tenmilesplus on 19:36:54, 25/11/17
Well Said TonyK..

  Am I the only one that see's these Zip wire things as the modern fad that once was the Bungee  ??

  As soon as a few 'Hen' nights and 'Stag' days do them who will go around boasting about how fantastic it was then it stops being the 'latest thing' and popularity wains and the Zip wire will be left to rot and become an eyesore... I give them 5 years if they get the go ahead which means with build time the Lake District will be blighted by the 'Zit' that is the 'Zip on the landscape' will be 7-10 years. Lets hope they never get built in the first place...

 Another thing is, how can a Zip wire be a 'Tourist Attraction' ? Surely once the zip has been done a couple of times the 'Tourist' will go home and not hang around ? Who is going to book a weeks holiday in a guest house or Hotel just to do the zip wire ? Currently the Guest houses etc are booked for a week by those that wish to enjoy the Majesty and splendour of the scenery, if your interested in the Zip or Honiston you will only be booking for a night or two ? This means there are going to be fewer whole weeks for those of us who DO want to be in the Fells and want to travel 300 miles, if the only option is a 3 day break, I for one will not drive that distance..   

  Or have I got this wrong ?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Penygadair on 13:43:00, 26/11/17
The Zip Wires at Penrhyn and Blaenau Ffestiniog have been operational for a couple of years and continue to attract visitors. Usually these are people who are on holiday in the area. I don't think anyone has ever made a specific distance journey to use one.
Both of these run over worked out quarry land and are virtually hidden from view. They have provided useful jobs in areas of high unemployment.


Having said that the Thirlmere proposal is totally different and would be an eyesore in an area of exceptional scenic beauty. I shall be making an individual objection.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 20:06:45, 26/11/17
The petition has gained over 1000 signatures in 4 days
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dazza on 20:26:39, 27/11/17
I've signed the petition and filed an individual objection, also forwarded it onto friends.

Apart from the obvious distrubance and denegration of a beautiful area I don't even see the need for this. The lake district has many similar areas with Go Ape and Honister I can't see much call for another, more limited, attraction in a similar vein.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 10:43:58, 07/12/17
Signed, shared and written a letter
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 10:54:35, 07/12/17
Thank you all, I'd missed these posts somehow!  O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 23:51:19, 07/12/17
Another update

https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/12/06/battle-lines-drawn-over-thirlmere-zipwire-as-public-urged-to-make-views-known
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: tenmilesplus on 23:56:48, 07/12/17
I know the attachment I have included here is about Fracking but there is an interesting line quote "Our founding principle is to protect the beautiful places in our care", this is a direct quote from Mark Harold Director of land and Nature..
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 07:52:59, 08/12/17
There's a nice drone video of Thirlmere here



http://zipoff.org/why-were-against-the-zip/
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:20:22, 08/12/17
That is a great video by Tony Stephenson with a very powerful message. The Zip Off page it is on with statements from the LDNPA core strategy documents also has a very clear message. The LDNPA could not possibly approve the zip wire plan or they would totally go against what they said they stand for.

Thanks for that beefy I had missed it  O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Penygadair on 15:02:34, 08/12/17
I'm actually surprised by how few people have signed the 38 Degrees petition.


Now I'm a 38 Degrees member and regularly receive requests to sign petitions on environmental and political issues but I did not receive a direct request concerning the Thirlmere petition. A little investigation showed that I was unaware of other localised issues which have been the subject of petitions.


Now the 38 Degrees system is quite sophisticated. It knows where I live and when it suggests  that I e-mail my MP it gives me her name. This leads me to believe that Thiirlmere has been viewed as a 'local' matter and that only members in Cumbria or the North West were circulated. Bearing in mind how many folks from all over the UK visit and love the Lakes, I would have thought that it was an issue of national concern.  


I've e-mailed 38 Degrees with my views asking why I was excluded from the circulation and suggesting that the petition be relaunched natiionally
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 15:12:33, 08/12/17
Thanks Penygadair, I get regular requests from 38 degrees asking me to sign petitions for different things, some relevant to me and some not. Interesting to see if they do email the whole country who have signed other petitions.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Penygadair on 15:31:36, 08/12/17
I get regular requests from 38 degrees asking me to sign petitions for different things,


So you're a known subversive as well  :)


I'll let you know what 38 Degrees say.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 17:04:29, 13/12/17
Now this is interesting.  A couple of organizations have thrown their weight behind the proposals:

https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/12/12/tourism-and-business-bodies-back-thirlmere-zipwire-plans

What's most interesting about it is that Michael Turner, director of TTT: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06785855/officers

is also director of Cumbria Tourism: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03027358/officers

No vested interest there then!   ::)

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: adalard on 17:06:21, 13/12/17
Ah, I read about Cumbria Tourism's backing for the plan - didn't realise the connection though!  >:(
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 17:28:43, 13/12/17
The comments underneath that Grough article say it all, especially Stuart Holmes reply. Let us hope the nightmare will be over for all of us who are horrified about this proposal and the LDNPA make the right decision and refuse it.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 11:01:21, 14/12/17
Michael Turner and Joanna Turner (related perhaps  >:( ) also own just over 25% of the share capital so stand to gain from the profits generated by this development. 
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 09:11:50, 17/12/17
I see Terry Abraham has resigned from his post at the charity Lake District Foundation (formerly Nurture Lakeland) who seemingly don't object to the proposed Zip-wire(s).


A great gesture, it's a pity other Lake District 'celebrities' aren't quite as forthcoming with their views ...Hinkes, Richards, Powell-Thompson?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Steve18566 on 06:58:29, 18/12/17
I remember Chris Bonington was in favour of the Honister proposals, but Terry Abraham is (I believe) the first well known name to speak up about Thirlmere - well done Terry.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 08:12:41, 18/12/17
I remember Chris Bonington was in favour of the Honister proposals, but Terry Abraham is (I believe) the first well known name to speak up about Thirlmere - well done Terry.


Bonington resigned as vice-president of Friends of the Lake District because they opposed the Honister zip-wire.
Same principles, just a different viewpoint.



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 09:03:56, 18/12/17
For those of you who don't follow Terry Abraham on Facebook, he has this morning posted this comment:

STATEMENT: MY RESIGNATION AS AMBASSADOR FOR THE CONSERVATION CHARITY 'THE LAKE DISTRICT FOUNDATION'
 On Friday 15th December 2017 at the launch of the conservation charity ‘The Lake District Foundation’ (formerly Nurture Lakeland) at Low Wood Bay Hotel, Windermere I announced my resignation as an ambassador in protest at their decision to remain neutral with regards to the proposed Thirlmere Activity Hub by Treetop Trek.
 The charity states it’s aims as “promoting the conservation, protection and improvement of the physical and natural environment and cultural heritage of the Lake District by providing funding and support for conservation, environmental and cultural initiatives in the Lake District and Cumbria.”
 My decision was considered but ultimately impulsive and it saddens me deeply that I felt compelled to speak out. My feelings and emotions as someone who profoundly cares for the Lake District and Cumbria were inevitably overruled by thoughts of a bigger, more important picture which affects the national park and others around the UK.
 The charity’s trustees includes the national park authority, National Trust and Cumbria Tourism. I had been told prior to the launch I was not allowed to express an opinion publicly opposing the plans proposed by Treetop Trek at Thirlmere in association with the charity. I could only do so as an individual. This didn’t feel right for me both personally and supposedly as an ambassador for a conservation charity. I found this neutral stance to be at extreme odds with what the charity claims to represent. Cumbria Tourism (CT) of course recently publicly backed the plans for the Thirlmere Activity Hub of which the director of Treetop Trek sits on the executive board which I found most peculiar as CT’s strategy has a long held convention of neutrality with regards to planning applications.
 Treetop Trek have revealed in their plans they’ll donate sums to The Lake District Foundation if the eight zipwires over Thirlmere are approved by the national park authority. The director of The Lake District Foundation revealed at the launch they’d take money from anyone, anywhere and as much as possible to make the charity a success in the future.
 The argument for the Thirlmere Activity Hub and The Lake District Foundation’s neutral stance goes against everything I feel I stand for and care about in terms of inspiring people to care for the Lake District. The idea the scheme will inspire youth for adventure and appreciate the outdoors I find tenuous at best. The likely admission cost, what’s involved with the zipwires and the potential detrimental effects with regards to conservation markedly conflicts with the role of both the national park authority and the charity; to conserve, enhance and protect.
 People of all ages and backgrounds can go ghyll scrambling, scrambling, climbing, kayaking, mountain biking, cycling, fellwalking, skiing and much more besides in Lakeland which are considerably less intrusive than zipwires. These activities offer more benefits for one’s physical and mental health and appreciation for the environment; better still enjoyed with local groups and guides to really get a sense of fun or danger.
 A few months ago I was offered a free ride on the longest zipwire in Europe which is also the fastest in the world in North Wales, on the edge of the Snowdonia National Park. It resides amongst a working industrial quarry and is an attraction owned by Zip World. I produced a video for social media, shared how much I enjoyed it - it’s fun, I’m not anti-zipwire - but I did make the point it’s in a suitable location and I wouldn’t like to see such an obvious attraction over Thirlmere in the very heart of a national park, especially when it’s just been designated a UNESCO World Heritage Site.
 I was then pressured by sources who wish to remain anonymous to delete the video from my social media as Zip World didn’t appreciate the Thirlmere Activity Hub references and some followers’ negative comments about Treetop Trek. I couldn’t understand why this was happening as I was only stating an opinion and others were only expressing their’s. Despite feeling rather angry at the situation I found myself in, I reluctantly agreed to remove the posts. Some weeks later I discovered that Zip World has connections to Treetop Trek and just recently ‘Zip World Lakes Ltd’ has been registered as a business at Companies House.
 We all stand on the shoulders of giants: Wordsworth sowed the seeds of the idea of national parks; Scotsman John Muir emigrated and contributed to the creation of national parks in the US, we in the UK followed suit; the Kinder mass trespass; the roots of the National Trust; Beatrix Potter fought against the industrialists who sought to transform Lakeland for their own needs. Thirlmere ironically is a birthplace of the conservation movement from when it was flooded to become a reservoir. Ullswater England’s most beautiful lake was planned to be a reservoir at one point but thankfully this didn’t succeed.
 Thirlmere stands as a monument to actions of the past and should always act as a reminder to stand up for conservation when under threat no matter how large or small. The audacious plans by Treetop Trek I feel are better served elsewhere within the Lake District but better still on the outskirts perhaps in West Cumbria - where such an attraction would prove to be genuinely fantastic for the local economy in drawing more visitors to that part of the county and ease the pressures of tourists in Lakeland during peak periods.
 I’ve always sought to inspire and enlighten the public to the beauty and wonderful heritage of the Lake District with my ‘Life of a Mountain’ documentaries which have been seen by millions of viewers on the BBC. The area isn’t a museum of course and will always evolve over time, be it aesthetically or geologically but it is after all a national park; a fact we cannot deny. Millions of visitors come to Cumbria every year and will continue to do so and there’s good reason. Conservation plays a huge part in that and accessibility to admire it’s delights too.
 On Friday I considered all the above and much more besides. I feel terribly sad that things turned out the way it did. I wrestled with my conscience and decided at the very last minute I couldn’t agree to represent a charity which stands in conflict with not only my own beliefs, integrity and convictions regarding conservation but also has tenuous links and contacts with some groups and possible individuals who in turn have links elsewhere and who I feel do not have the national park, it’s people, visitors or the nation’s interests at heart.
 Despite my own feelings and remorse I do hope it encourages the public to scrutinise and hold those in charge accountable for their decision making processes, representation or stances - be it a conservation charity or otherwise when it comes to protecting the Lake District or any other national park.
 Terry Abraham
 Independent Outdoors Broadcaster and Photographer, Cumbria
 (‘Life of a Mountain: Scafell Pike’, ‘Life of a Mountain: Blencathra’ and ‘Alan Hinkes - The First Briton to Climb the World’s Highest Mountains’)

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 10:23:57, 18/12/17
Thanks Lakeland Lorry and well said Terry Abraham O0

I am shocked that he was told he couldn't express an opinion opposing the zip wire proposals at Thirlmere. Perhaps other well known people are having similar problems with the organisations they represent?
I am sure I have seen Alan Hinkes oppose this zip wire plan publicly, I think it may have been on facebook?

I would be interested in Eric Robson's viewpoint on the zip wire.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 11:55:28, 18/12/17
Thanks for posting Terry Abraham's statement - it states, far more eloquently than I could, everything I think is wrong with this development.  It also shows the pressure being brought to bear by businesses, and the links between them and demonstrates their vested interests.  Nobody on the zip wire proposal side is in this for anything other than profit, and [censored] to the environment.


Paul 
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 12:32:37, 18/12/17
I've just taken a look at the Grough article about Terry Abraham resigning and it appears that the comments section has been cut off that particular page.   I'm sure that there were comments posted earlier, but there's nothing now.

https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/12/18/thirlmere-zipwire-film-maker-terry-abraham-expands-on-reasons-for-charity-resignation (https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/12/18/thirlmere-zipwire-film-maker-terry-abraham-expands-on-reasons-for-charity-resignation)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 12:50:02, 18/12/17
I imagine that grough's owners may be concerned that potentially defamatory remarks might be posted, as emotions are getting quite raw.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:31:07, 18/12/17
I noticed that too, I'd scrolled down to read the comments, very odd there are none?

I have sent my email to the LDNPA today after rewriting it about 10 times! Objecting to the plans, of course.

I checked the Planning Application today and the St Johns and Castlerigg Parish Council have submitted their comments. It is at the bottom of the list. It is a No from them.
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 14:24:44, 18/12/17
To me, it appears that quite a few people and organistions are being told not to voice their opinion.

I don't believe that can be anyone from the 'against' side of the argument, so that only leaves one candidate.   No prizes for guessing who that will be.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:45:31, 18/12/17
The comments section has now appeared in the Grough article.

Let us hope the LDNPA reject this proposal; they should reject it if they stick to the principles of why they are there.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:18:53, 19/12/17
Here is the response to the proposal from the Wainwright Society.  O0

The response is what AW would have wanted.

https://www.wainwright.org.uk/articles/2017/thirlmere-zip-wire-objection.html


@ Glyno - Alan Hinkes has liked this stance from the Wainwright Society on facebook, I know you don't do fb, so he is opposing it. I wonder with Eric Robson being the chairman of the Wainwright Society his views are the same as the above?

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 13:45:41, 19/12/17

@ Glyno - Alan Hinkes has liked this stance from the Wainwright Society on facebook, I know you don't do fb, so he is opposing it. I assume with Eric Robson being the chairman of the Wainwright Society his views are the same as the above  O0


A step in the right direction I suppose.
Though 'liking' something on facebook isn't really the same as openly stating your views on the subject as Terry Abraham has had the courage to do. Not that I'm saying AH (or anyone else for that matter) has an obligation to do so.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 13:50:19, 19/12/17
Here is the response to the proposal from the Wainwright Society.  O0

The response is what AW would have wanted.

https://www.wainwright.org.uk/articles/2017/thirlmere-zip-wire-objection.html (https://www.wainwright.org.uk/articles/2017/thirlmere-zip-wire-objection.html)


@ Glyno - Alan Hinkes has liked this stance from the Wainwright Society on facebook, I know you don't do fb, so he is opposing it. I assume with Eric Robson being the chairman of the Wainwright Society his views are the same as the above  O0

Eric Robson is also a Director of Cumbra Tourism, so he may not want to make his views public.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03027358/officers

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 14:08:34, 19/12/17
Eric Robson is also a Director of Cumbra Tourism, so he may not want to make his views public.

As soon as I logged off before I remembered Eric Robson was connected to Cumbria Tourism too.

We may never know what his personal views are, I have edited the post I made earlier.

Though 'liking' something on facebook isn't really the same as openly stating your views on the subject as Terry Abraham has had the courage to do. Not that I'm saying AH (or anyone else for that matter) has an obligation to do so.

You are right of course. It is sad that people are seemingly scared to or not being allowed to voice their opinion on such an important issue  :(

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 14:31:20, 19/12/17

You are right of course. It is sad that people are seemingly scared to or not being allowed to voice their opinion on such an important issue  :(

...or deciding it isn't in their best interests? ;)


In a way, I respected Bonington for standing by his principles regarding the Honister zip-wire.

I suspect businesses in Keswick and Ambleside would stand to benefit massively from this development, I wonder what kind of influence that can have?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 14:44:23, 19/12/17
Going through all the design and planning process is not cheep and can be very time consuming.
While it seems a no-brianer to most of us that it should be rejected my worry is that they wouldn't be doing it unless they thought they were in with a good chance.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 15:09:36, 19/12/17
...or deciding it isn't in their best interests? ;)

 :) If someone could lose their job or livelihood it might be more difficult to speak out.

I suspect businesses in Keswick and Ambleside would stand to benefit massively from this development, I wonder what kind of influence that can have?

I don't think there will be that many people who will come to the Lakes only because of the zip wires. They will already be coming here anyway and will have a go on it if they have the money or inclination. It will take about 30 minutes to an hour perhaps to go across a lake twice? Nobody is going to travel a long way just for that. If the zip wire is all they have come for they may just do a day visit or stay just one night? The responses I've read on facebook from businesses have been against the proposals, they think it might put people off coming to the Lakes. I don't know if there has been a poll of businesses' views?

Going through all the design and planning process is not cheep and can be very time consuming.
While it seems a no-brianer to most of us that it should be rejected my worry is that they wouldn't be doing it unless they thought they were in with a good chance.

This is a quote from Chris W on Grough responses to Terry Abrahams resignation, it would seem some of it is from United Utilities.

"I applaud Terry's stance. He has protected his personal integrity - a good example to others.

I also wonder how the zip wire being funded. A quick look at the socio-economics assessment implies United Utilities are putting up a lot of money for refurb of the area (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/MediaTemp/68365-265734.pdf). Great, it's land surrounding Thirlmere and needs protection and management.

That said, why does it appear that UU are involved in funding the zip wire? Naively, why is money I've paid through my water bills being used to fund a zip wire I would have to pay to use? I'd expect every UU customer should get at least one free ride a year! Grough team, I think you should look into this further"
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: grinderman on 15:32:01, 19/12/17
Andy Beck has posted an interesting video on youtube. A walk up Fisher Crag, it would appear that some of the infrastructure for this is already in place, as if a decision has already been made....
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: fernman on 15:44:54, 19/12/17
I couldn't find one called A walk up Fisher Crag, if that was the name, but I found this one by Andy, The Proposed Zip Wire Over Thirlmere, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBjWU3NM68 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBjWU3NM68) Is it the one you meant?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 16:41:59, 19/12/17
I couldn't find one called A walk up Fisher Crag, if that was the name, but I found this one by Andy, The Proposed Zip Wire Over Thirlmere, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBjWU3NM68 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBjWU3NM68) Is it the one you meant?

That's the one that I watched last week that Andy Beck talked about on the Wainwright Forum a while back.

Interesting that United Utilities has a retrospective planning app in for that track work.    See application number 7/2017/2307 on the LNDPA Planning Portal.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 16:50:04, 19/12/17
Having looked at the reports on the Planning Portal for the Zip Wire, quite of them have the client as being United Utilities.   Certainly the Ecological Assessment and Noise report do.   So it looks like it's actually a joint partnership between UU and TTT.

It's comforting to read the statement that UU have on their Cumbria page on their website, which states:

We've got a lot to thank Cumbria for.....Not just does it contain some of Britain’s most stunning scenery, it’s the source of much of the precious water in our region. For many of us our morning cuppa has started its journey from here.We’re committed to doing our bit to safeguard the natural environment around here, improving and protecting the lakes, rivers and reservoirs. We also do all we can to help life flow smoothly for our customers in the local community.There's so much we are going to be doing to help keep Cumbria flowing.

https://www.unitedutilities.com/help-and-support/about-us/about-cumbria/
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:30:14, 19/12/17
Having looked at the reports on the Planning Portal for the Zip Wire, quite of them have the client as being United Utilities.   Certainly the Ecological Assessment and Noise report do.   So it looks like it's actually a joint partnership between UU and TTT.

Looks like United Utilities are going to get a big percentage of the profits if this gets the go ahead.

£££££££ have made United Utilities forget this maybe?
[/i]We’re committed to doing our bit to safeguard the natural environment around here, improving and protecting the lakes, rivers and reservoirs.

This is like an opportunity not to miss folks, a job at Zip World....oh well perhaps not. The jobs look a bit rubbish at Wales Zip World, people want proper jobs, not seasonal, minimum wage jobs, without security or fixed hours!
https://www.zipworld.co.uk/jobs/instructor-at-zip-world-slate-caverns-blaenau-ffestiniog1

Did people know a company has been created called Zip World Lakes Ltd? Michael Turner is a director, it is a dormant company, let us hope it remains that way. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10663561/officers
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 18:52:51, 19/12/17
Well worth reading some of the comments make on UKC about the Glenridding Zip Wire, which TTT were planning on building a few years ago.   Fortunately, that one didn't go ahead.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=599808#x7916720

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 19:20:19, 19/12/17
Interesting about United Utilities, it hadn't occurred to me before but of course they would have to approve. Why are we not being encouraged to lobby them, they will be much more conscious of their image and public opinion than TTT.


United utilities are secretive about their email address but their chairman is


Dr John McAdam
Haweswater House
Lingley Mere Business Park
Lingley Green Avenue
Great Sankey
Warrington
WA5 3LP


If people do write make sure you lift the quote from their website supplied by Lakeland Lorry

We've got a lot to thank Cumbria for.....Not just does it contain some of Britain’s most stunning scenery, it’s the source of much of the precious water in our region. For many of us our morning cuppa has started its journey from here. We’re committed to doing our bit to safeguard the natural environment around here, improving and protecting the lakes, rivers and reservoirs. We also do all we can to help life flow smoothly for our customers in the local community. There's so much we are going to be doing to help keep Cumbria flowing.

https://www.unitedutilities.com/help-and-support/about-us/about-cumbria/ (https://www.unitedutilities.com/help-and-support/about-us/about-cumbria/)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 22:19:45, 19/12/17
Well worth reading some of the comments make on UKC about the Glenridding Zip Wire, which TTT were planning on building a few years ago.   Fortunately, that one didn't go ahead. https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=599808#x7916720

I remember it well. The proposal was dropped before a planning application was made.

Shocking comments about being employed at Zip World from someone on that forum who said they worked 12 hour days with no breaks  :o

Interesting about United Utilities, it hadn't occurred to me before but of course they would have to approve. Why are we not being encouraged to lobby them, they will be much more conscious of their image and public opinion than TTT.

Perhaps they believed the Zip Wires are what people wanted and didn't realise how many people care for Thirlmere? No, most likely the ££££££ is what is driving them  :(
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 22:43:33, 19/12/17
Oh it is definitely ££££££ April but compared to their profits it is peanuts and if the publicity starts to turn against them then it will be not worth it.


For the cost of a second class stamp I think it is worth contacting them as so far all the focus has been on TTT.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 09:29:23, 20/12/17
No harm in letting United Utilities know how we feel, you are right. They are my water company. If I could change to another company, I would. They will be jointly responsible for ruining Thirlmere and in the future we could see these sorts of developments all over the Lake District if this application gets approval.

Beefy has sent his objection letter to the LDNPA now too.

For those that haven't done so yet, your letters/emails need to get there by 2/1/18

Here are the links again
The planning application
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298

Send your email to [email protected]
Include your name, address, the date and the application reference 7/2017/2298

Friends of the Lake District info pages
https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Pages/Site/thirlmere/Category/thirlmere-zip-wires

Sign the Zip Off petition here, almost 7,000 at the moment
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/say-no-to-zip-wires-across-thirlmere?source=facebook-share-button&time=1511534681

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 09:46:06, 20/12/17
If you are a UU customer then you can email them here https://myaccount.unitedutilities.com/ContactUs (https://myaccount.unitedutilities.com/ContactUs)


I'm still looking for a way to contact them in writing where I don't have to put me address.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: fernman on 10:13:45, 20/12/17
I'm still looking for a way to contact them in writing where I don't have to put me address.

Make one up, then, and if the site recognises it it not a valid address, enter the address of somewhere like your local police station. Ditto with their phone number if one is required. Standard practice with me.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 10:17:29, 20/12/17
Isn't the internet a wonderful thing.


Chief Executive officer Steve Mogford mailto:[email protected] ([email protected]) I'm nor naive enough to imagine that he will read it but if there is enough weight of opinion it should slowly make its way to his ears.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 10:21:50, 20/12/17
Make one up, then, and if the site recognises it it not a valid address, enter the address of somewhere like your local police station. Ditto with their phone number if one is required. Standard practice with me.
Normally I would do just that but on this one occasion I do want them to get back in touch with me but don't really want to reveal that I am in Hertfordshire not Cumbria.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 11:27:18, 20/12/17
I was just about to post a link to that email address, it is now on Zip Off's facebook page.

I don't think it matters where you live Ridge, the National Parks belong to all of us and we are all entitled to voice our opinion.

Zip Off also have also posted a tweet from Richard Leafe from three years ago advertising Treetop Trek vouchers in his capacity as Chief Executive of the LDNP
http://zipoff.org/



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 12:09:31, 20/12/17
I was just about to post a link to that email address, it is now on Zip Off's facebook page.

I emailed it to them before I posted it on here, I hope that I have helped in some way.


I think UU are worth perusing. A bar/club that I used to work near was going to turn in to a lap-dancing venue. There was a big campaign against it but because of the venues license the Council couldn't stop it. It was only when the properties owners, Network Rail, became involved that it was stopped. It then reopened as a normal bar but with very robust tables which had a pole in the middle of them.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: fernman on 12:14:30, 20/12/17
Normally I would do just that but on this one occasion I do want them to get back in touch with me but don't really want to reveal that I am in Hertfordshire not Cumbria.

What about your second home in Cumbria? Use your imagination!
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 12:47:34, 20/12/17
I emailed it to them before I posted it on here, I hope that I have helped in some way.

I thought it was a bit of a coincidence  :) You have helped.

I think UU are worth perusing. A bar/club that I used to work near was going to turn in to a lap-dancing venue. There was a big campaign against it but because of the venues license the Council couldn't stop it. It was only when the properties owners, Network Rail, became involved that it was stopped.

The difference here is that UU have invested a lot of money in the application, the bat survey, the noise impact report, the ecological assessment, the socio-economic note, they have all been done for United Utilities. They must be going to get a percentage of the profits from the zip wire and I think that will be the priority here for them, making money.

That said, it is still worth writing to them, I certainly will. If only I could switch water supplier!

I believe the people that matter most to bodies like Cumbria Tourism are the people who spend the most money. That is the people who come here on holiday who live outside of Cumbria. In a way your voice is more important than local people, tell them you won't come back to the Lakes if it turns into a theme park. They might realise that biting the hand that feeds them is not the way forward.

It seems that making money for a few individuals is what this is all about at the expense of a very quiet and peaceful valley.

For those interested in knowing if local businesses are in favour of the zip wires or not, Low Bridge End Farm in St Johns in the Vale are not. They were the farm who suffered terribly in the floods and are now back up running again, the tea garden, camping barn etc.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 12:58:29, 20/12/17
The Great Outdoors online magazine have published an article about the Zip Wire, which they say is also going to be in the February edition of their printed magazine.   Although by the time the printed version of their magazine is out, it will be too late to formally object to the planning application, it may stir some online readers to submit an objection to the LDNPA.

http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/news/roger-smiths-column-fog-over-thirlmere/ (http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/news/roger-smiths-column-fog-over-thirlmere/)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:07:44, 20/12/17
Thanks Lakeland Lorry  O0

A very well written article and I couldn't agree more with it.

Especially this

"The zipwire scheme is clearly inappropriate and should not go ahead. If it is passed by the LDNPA then I believe those members of the LDNPA board who vote for it should be summarily dismissed and replaced by people who genuinely understand and support Sandford"

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 13:54:52, 20/12/17
UU Environmental Policy


https://www.unitedutilities.com/globalassets/z_corporate-site/responsibility-pdfs/environmental-policy.pdf (https://www.unitedutilities.com/globalassets/z_corporate-site/responsibility-pdfs/environmental-policy.pdf)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:04:12, 20/12/17
Terry Abraham has just posted the following on his FaceBook Page:

Just back from being filmed by ITV Border News at Thirlmere where myself, Mike Turner Director of Treetop Trek and Douglas Chalmers Chief Executive of Friends of the Lake District spoke about proposals for zipwires over Thirlmere. I'm pleased to say ITV have filmed other folk's point of view too and it was a civil and respectful debate (https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/ffc/1/16/1f44d.png)👍 Which is how things should be #lakedistrict

So something should be on the local news tonight, or perhaps tomorrow night.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 17:05:50, 20/12/17
I normally watch BBC but I will watch ITV tonight, thanks Lakeland Lorry  :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 17:40:06, 20/12/17
Thanks LL I will have to see if it is on line tomorrow.


I've just had an email from the PA to the CEO at United Utilities thanking me for my email and saying that the CEO will be in touch with me soon. I, being a polite person, have replied thanking her for her email. The more Thirlmere zipwire appears in their inbox the better as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dovegirl on 17:59:36, 20/12/17
The Campaign for National Parks is opposing the zip wire
https://www.cnp.org.uk/news/join-us-oppose-zip-wire-proposals
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:31:26, 20/12/17
Thanks LL I will have to see if it is on line tomorrow.

If you find it can you send me the link? I don't have Sky or a digital aerial (very poor reception here) so I watch television online. The ITV hub is only letting me watch ITV London news and I can't change to my own local news which is Border  >:( I can't seem to find previous ITV Borders news shows anywhere!

I've just had an email from the PA to the CEO at United Utilities thanking me for my email and saying that the CEO will be in touch with me soon. I, being a polite person, have replied thanking her for her email. The more Thirlmere zipwire appears in their inbox the better as far as I am concerned.

I will send one and I'm sure the Zip Off followers will send a few too  :)

The Campaign for National Parks is opposing the zip wire
https://www.cnp.org.uk/news/join-us-oppose-zip-wire-proposals


Thanks Dovegirl  O0


Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Steve18566 on 18:50:31, 20/12/17
The UU email address should be shared to 2 other Facebook pages if anyone is on them -
I love the Lake District and To climb the 214 wainwright fells.
Also, have the BBC or ITV been contacted at all?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 22:38:44, 20/12/17
Also, have the BBC or ITV been contacted at all?

There was or will be an article on ITV Border, it may have been on tonight?

See my last post  :) ITV hub 0 - BBC iplayer 5. It seems you can't choose your region on ITV hub so you can't watch your local news  :-\ You can with the BBC iplayer

BBC Look North mentioned the zip wire plans just before the application was submitted in November. I don't know if they have covered it since but they are aware of it.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 08:09:57, 21/12/17
Some lovely photos of Thirlmere on this walk report.   

I think all those who are in favour of the zip wire because they believe that Thirlmere is just a reservoir, that's all ready been despoilt, should look at these photos.

http://www.andrewswalks.co.uk/thirlmere-2.html

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 10:57:17, 21/12/17
The National Trust have issued a Press Release stating that they are against the Thirlmere Zip Wire application.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/press-release/our-response-to-the-planning-application-for-the-proposed-thirlmere-activity-hub?campid=SocialShare_Central_MainSite_Facebook_1431795998084


Just waiting for Eric Robson, who is the Chairman of the Wainwright Society (who are against the Zip Wire) and also on the Excecutive Board of the Cumbria Tourism (who support the Zip Wire).

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 11:46:09, 21/12/17
I've just joined Twitter! Don't bother following me so far there are only 2 tweets and that is probably how it will stay. One is to Eric Robson and the other to the Wainwright Society both asking about Eric's position on the zip wire. 
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 14:15:30, 21/12/17
Ridge -thanks for giving the email address for the CEO of UU - I've also emailed him. 


It seems to me that all organisations that do not have a vested interest are against this proposal, and all those who see a quid in it for them are for it.  Stinks.


Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 14:25:21, 21/12/17
Just a lighter note - I have just received an email acknowledgement from the CEO's PA - Mrs Lake!
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 16:17:41, 21/12/17
I think all those who are in favour of the zip wire because they believe that Thirlmere is just a reservoir, that's all ready been despoilt, should look at these photos.

If anyone is in favour of it they wouldn't want to post anything on here, Ridge will drum them off the forum!!

Lovely photos, thanks LL  :)

The National Trust have issued a Press Release stating that they are against the Thirlmere Zip Wire application.

About time! Zip Off were funny asking the NT if they had found their moral compass yet! They have now.

I've just joined Twitter! Don't bother following me so far there are only 2 tweets and that is probably how it will stay. One is to Eric Robson and the other to the Wainwright Society both asking about Eric's position on the zip wire. 

 :)

Nice one pdstsp  O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 17:12:14, 21/12/17
Just had this response from UU:


Dear Mr Sharman,
 
Thank you for your e-mail of 21 December 2017.  I can appreciate the concerns you have about the potential impact any development at Thirlmere may have.
 
As a landowner, our prime concern is to ensure that the water flowing into our reservoirs is as clean as possible.  While these water quality objectives are vitally important, we also recognise that there are many groups who have other interests in our land as well, whether that is for leisure and recreation, farming or wildlife and biodiversity.  We try to balance these sometimes competing interests where we can, recognising that effective land management for people and nature makes an important contribution to the environmental, social and economic well-being of the North West.  For example, an attractive natural environment underpins the Cumbrian tourist economy but there are differing views about how much tourism is needed.
 
With that in mind, we believe the planning process now underway is the most appropriate mechanism for these differing views to be aired and for those stakeholders with a vested interest in the future economic, social and environmental prosperity of Cumbria to decide upon this proposal.
 
If you do have feedback on the proposal, I would encourage you to send it directly to Treetop Trek (as it is exploring the possibility of gaining planning permission for this development) or submit it as part of the planning process.  I understand that Treetop Trek can be contacted either via its e-mail address:  [email protected] ([email protected]), or via a Facebook page:  www.facebook.com/ThirlmereActivityHub (http://www.facebook.com/ThirlmereActivityHub)
 
Our involvement is as the landowner at Thirlmere and we have, of course, considered the proposal ourselves.  We understand that Treetop Trek believes all possible zipwire locations have been carefully selected to ensure the environmental and ecological impact is minimal and that there other benefits to be gained as a result of this proposal.  We are reassured that this will be considered and taken into account as part of the planning process.
 
I do hope you take the time to share your feedback with Treetop Trek and/or the planning process.
 
Kind regards,
 
 
Steve Mogford
Chief Executive
United Utilities


All very well but is doesn't explain why UU are taking such an active part in funding the development.  Mealy mouthed words from Mr Mogford.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 17:26:42, 21/12/17
I have responded,


Dear Mr Mogford
 
Thank you for taking the time to respond and to do so so quickly.
 
I have read your response and agree that the planning process is the best way to resolve a very difficult issue.  However, that being the case I wonder why you appear to be investing some £1.7M in this project (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/MediaTemp/68365-265734.pdf (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/MediaTemp/68365-265734.pdf)).
 
I also note your use of the phrase “those stakeholders with a vested interest”.  The commonly held view amongst those opposed to the plans is that these vested interests are purely financial, in terms of the profit to be made from an investment in this type of facility.  I further note the apparent conflicts of interest within some of the organisations who have supported the proposal, and again wonder why a company such as yours, with a responsibility to future generations to protect our natural environment, would wish to be associated with such organisations.
 
I shall be grateful if you will let me have contact details for your non-exec directors with responsibility for oversight of United Utilities’ environmental impact, as I would like to pursue this matter.
 
Kind regards
 
Paul


I am getting really cross. (I didn't put the bit about being cross in the email btw)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:32:56, 21/12/17
Once we have stopped laughing at the response from UU we might be able to reply properly.

"We understand that Treetop Trek believes all possible zipwire locations have been carefully selected to ensure the environmental and ecological impact is minimal and that there other benefits to be gained as a result of this proposal.  We are reassured that this will be considered and taken into account as part of the planning process"

"Benefits" meaning ££££££ for UU and TTT.

Do people know that Richard Leafe (LDNPA Chief Exec) has a partner who works at TTT (apparently)  Just saying  :)
 
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 18:58:12, 21/12/17
I agree that his response is laughable.  I am not sure how much mileage there is in corresponding with him - however the non-exec director route might be worth a punt - non-exec's are supposed to oversee the exec's and advise accordingly - if they see a lot of potentially bad publicity they may get interested.  At the end of the day this development might make a few pounds for UU but it will be a drop in the ocean compared with their core revenues.


The more inside snippets of who's in bed with who in this case leaves a really bad taste in the mouth.


Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 21:14:54, 21/12/17
I have, of course, got the standard response. I'll have to have a pick through it later to try to illicit a personal answer.


pdstsp  I agree about the non-exec route but can't find contact details.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 21:15:56, 21/12/17
In other words, "It's not us - it's them!"

Good to see the NT weighing in, on of the 'big guns' so to speak.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 08:29:17, 22/12/17

Morning

I have, of course, got the standard response. I'll have to have a pick through it later to try to illicit a personal answer.


pdstsp  I agree about the non-exec route but can't find contact details.


If I get a response I'll post it up here - there are no contact details on the UU Corporate site for the non-execs.
Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 08:31:54, 22/12/17
Sent a reply to Mr Mogford. One think I mentioned to him, which I thought spoke volumes, is that they send you links to comment on the planning application but these are to Treetop Treks. They don't have a vested interest in not representing those views to the planning authority do they.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 08:53:28, 22/12/17
Non exec UU board members, the only one I can find contact details for so far is


Stephen Carter aka Lord Carter of Barnes [email protected]; [email protected] ([email protected];%[email protected])




Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Steve18566 on 11:18:04, 22/12/17
Dr John McAdam - chairman
Steve Mogford - chief executive officer
Russ Houlden - chief financial officer
Steve Fraser - chief operating officer
Mark Clare - senior non-executive director
Stephen Carter - non-executive director
Alison Goligher - non-executive director
Brian May - non-executive director
Paulette Rowe - non-executive director
Sara Weller - non-executive director


This appears to be the full list of directors and non exec directors.


Unfortunately I've no contact details
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 11:56:02, 22/12/17
Sent a reply to Mr Mogford. One thing I mentioned to him, which I thought spoke volumes, is that they send you links to comment on the planning application but these are to Treetop Treks. They don't have a vested interest in not representing those views to the planning authority do they.
Just got this from UU
Quote
Dear Mark

In Steve’s absence I am responding to your further note to him in order to get you a speedy response.

We will ensure that in any future replies to queries we get about the Thirlmere Zip Wire application we will include reference to these contact details:

[email protected]

Or alternatively write to:

Development Management
Lake District National Park Authority
Murley Moss

Quoting reference number 7/2017/2298

Kind regards

Gaynor Kenyon
Corporate Affairs Director
Can anyone contacting them in the future please let me know if this is true or not.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 19:39:54, 22/12/17
I have accidentally started an email conversation with the Corporate Affairs Director at United Utilities, I've just wished her a Happy Christmas and sent her this picture.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4535/37797111225_d8c93826cf_z.jpg) (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?action=post;quote=507888;topic=35623.0;last_msg=507965)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 20:10:03, 22/12/17
Send it to Mike Turner and ask what it is that he loves about the Lake District. He does, he said he does!
Think he loves the money he makes from it  >:(

Nice pic btw, very talented photographer  ;)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 22:53:29, 22/12/17
Nice pic btw, very talented photographer  ;)
Talented photographer but she swears like a ................................................................................nun.


I've had another email from her complaining that the photo didn't come through so I've resent it. At this rate I'll have her objecting to the planning application by this time next week.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 20:46:37, 23/12/17
Its big money, but how the local area will cope with the huge influx of vsitors, i have no idea, but  i thought no way would people pay a crazy £50 for less than two minutes fun down the longest  zip wire in Europe based in Bethesda in Snowdonia, yet the owners turn over for last year, has topped the million mark with ease.

At the height of the summer season two years ago, some friends of mine were left disappointed, being told that the ride had been pre booked for the next three weeks, and the only chance of a go, was if there were any cancellations.

I am not a mean git, but £50 would cover my fuel for a nice weekend away, say in Northumberland, or Durham.

The owner of the attraction in Thirlmere, is on to a winner, its a sure guarantee to make huge money.

£50 is a bit rich for me, i can think of a lot better things to do with it, than a daft few minutes of excitement
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 20:56:25, 23/12/17
no way would people pay a crazy £50 for less than two minutes fun down the longest  zip wire in Europe based in Bethesda in Snowdonia

The website quotes £85 as the cost of the ride in Wales

The owner of the attraction in Thirlmere, is on to a winner, its a sure guarantee to make huge money.

Thankfully there is no owner of the attraction in Thirlmere, it needs planning permission first

I agree with you DA, there are much better ways to spend that amount of money.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 21:05:18, 23/12/17
Blimey, its gone up in price.
I can remember visiting the owner several years ago, before the venture was trully up and running. He was looking for  the installation of electronic data tagging, for his harnesses, as he wanted to keep strict records for his incredible insurance bill for the venture.

If there had been any accidents or injury claims against him, he wanted to ensure he had every trip down the wire recorded.

The last time i visited the site, it was £50 a go, but £85 is nuts.

Thats more than half of what i paid for a full weeks holiday in Cornwall, nosh, accommodation and three trips to Penzance, Falmouth and Lands End.

My week away cost only £139, and it was worth every penny.

£85 for less than 180sec of excitement,  Each to their own,  but that's daylight robbery.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 22:42:45, 23/12/17

Thats more than half of what i paid for a full weeks holiday in Cornwall, nosh, accommodation and three trips to Penzance, Falmouth and Lands End.



but what did you pay for food?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 10:19:59, 24/12/17
I had to make my own way to llandudno junction, but then everything was included in the price of £149.
Coach travel to St Ives in Cornwall, 5 nights accommodation in the hotel, breakfast and evening meal, as well as three trips to Penzance, Falmouth and Paradise Park Bird gardens, and Lands End and surrounding area.
Annoyingly, Shearings had sent me a discount code email of £20 off a holiday three days before i booked the trip.

I rang them up, asking if i could use that discount code, but they said it was only valid on the day they sent me the email.

I could have paid £129, but paid £149.


The food was included in the price and was excellent, considering how cheap the holiday was.


Quite an extensive menu during the evening, and the full English breakfast every morning.

It still represented magnificent value, and it was a sensible way of seeing Cornwall for the first time, in the depths of winter without the hassle of taking my own car, and tryring to find somewhere safe to park t.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:51:18, 24/12/17
The Friends of the Lake District has posted their full response to LDNPA about the zipwire proposal. The link to the letter they have sent is in a link at the bottom of the page.

https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/news/national-parks-for-the-many-and-not-the-few

It is very thorough and must have taken a lot of time to write. Thank you Laura Fiske  O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 14:07:09, 24/12/17
A very interesting article, and its quite easy to see why the friends of the National Park are so against the project.
The Thirlmere area, is in a stunningly beautiful unspoilt area, and there is a strong belief that such a large outdoors development, will spoil the area.

Its pointless comparing Thirlmere with a Bethesda disused quarry, as the environments are so different.

The economic benefits clearly out weigh the environmental damage, or lack of damage.

A series of high wires is hardly going to destroy the beauty of remote Thirlmere, but the huge influx of visitors and customers most certainly will have a detrimental impact on the area.

Huge car parks, access roads, cafes, associated litter problems with huge number of visitors, the list is almost endless.

Yet the massive economic boost to the area, with potentially many thousands of visitors spending their hard earned cash, that's a very tempting prospect for any area that survives chiefly on tourism and the spending power of the tourist.

I am glad i am not part of the planning commity, the economic benefits will be huge, but so will the environmental damage.

Which is more important, jobs and prosperity for a the locality, or a view.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 14:20:46, 24/12/17
The economic benefits clearly out weigh the environmental damage, or lack of damage.

No they don't.

There will be very little economic benefit for the locals. The jobs offered by Zip World are not that attractive, they are low paid with uncertain hours and not very secure, you are given a contract for one season. The locals do not want the zip wires and there is very low unemployment in the area and people would have to travel a long way to come to work, most likely.

You obviously have not read the 15 page letter from FOLD to the LDNPA explaining why this proposal should be refused, perhaps you should?

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 14:53:48, 24/12/17
What about the significant number of visitors, a lot of whom will be requiring accommodation, and places to eat, and buy their groceries.
I know a lot of the potential customers to such an attraction, would be day visitors, but many of the visitors to Zip World Bethesda are foreign tourists, drawn to the locality simply because of the existence of Europes longest zip wire.
They need somewhere to stay, and spend their money.


Most of the visitors  to Zip World, did not drive a significant distance from the SE and abroad, to look at the nice views or walk the hills, they came because the longest Zip wire in Europe happened to be in a remote area of North Wales.


If only a small percentage of those visitors suddenly stopped, and said " what a beautiful part of the world, we had no idea it existed, let's stay longer"


Tourism is what both Cumbria and Snowdonia requires for their long term survival.


Its unlikely to happen, but what if overnight, nobody came to Windermere, Keswick, Kendal and the rest of the stunning national park.


Within a few years, the businesses would close, and those vital jobs, so reliant on tourism would be no more.

The main reason Gwynedd council and the WAG welcomed the project with open arms, is for the economic benefits it offered a deprived and run down area of Snowdonia.

Conwy and Gwynedd conucil have been forward thinking in setting up Surf Snowdonia in Dolgarrog, Zip World in both Bethesda and just outside Bettws Y Coed.


These attractions have received world wide recognition, and many new foreign visitors, who probably have never heard of Wales, have now shown up, to see what the country has to offer.

Even the Llechwedd slate caverns in Blaenau festiniog have created a massive underground trampoline experience.


That sounds extremely tacky, and down market, but every time ive driven up that hill towards the Crimea pass, during the summer months, that attraction car park is usually full to capacity.


Whether they spend their money in Blaenau Festioniog is another matter, but their money is entering the Welsh economy, and that is great for North Wales.

The tourism  industry in Wales, is now the countries most lucrative industry, bringing in thousands of more visitors who would probably have stayed put in London.

Just because locals do not want it in their backyard, does not mean the project is dead in the water.

Cumbria will not survive without its ever increasing reliance on tourism and the money that represents.


Stunning scenery does not promise the local population any job security.


How many people born and bred in Cumbria, have had to move away, simply because there were no full time employment.

If North Wales is enjoying the economic benefits of increased tourism and spent revenue, why cannot the Lakes have a share of the cake.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 14:56:12, 24/12/17
The local parish council is very clear that it is against. As a huge generalisation this appears to be supported by business rather than locals or workers or visitors which, if we are that important to the local economy perhaps shouldn't be ignored.


April, when I said removal of compass and then drummed of the forum you do know that I didn't mean compass don't you
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 15:28:00, 24/12/17
DA did you read the 15 page letter?


Ridge, be my guest.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 16:24:51, 24/12/17
Yes i have read the article, its well written and has a very convincing argument against why such a huge project, should not receive the backing of the council and National Park authority.
All those arguments could easily have been put forward in the case of Snowdonia, yet both councils saw fit to see a longer term future for areas that require tourism to survive.

I live in an area of incredible natural beauty, within the Snowdonia national park boundary, and there are the distinct possibilities, that llanbeder airport, less than three miles from my front door, may receive the go ahead for the national space transportation centre.

It has the full financial backing of the Welsh Assembly Government, and park authority, but knowing Wales, it will unlikely get the nod from Westminster.

Would i welcome such a venture, almost at the bottom of my garden, you bet i would.


What a shame its not 1968, when those incredible Saturn V rockets were on their launch pads.


Forget the fact that i would probably lose my windows in the process, to see one of those from my living room window, stuff of dreams.

It would provide considerable inward investment, not only from Cardiff, but nationally from Westminster.

It would also create much needed employment, however small in number.

Employment opportunities in North Wales are small, and poorly paid, and any form of inward longterm investment is to be encouraged.

I am forward thinking for the future prosperity of the area ive chosen to live in, what others in other parts of the Uk decide to do, is up to them.

If the Zip wire is not given the go ahead, guarantee some other location, probably in Scotland will dive at the opportunity, knowing the economic benefits it will offer.


Council and park officials, with their heads buried in the past, its not the past they should be thinking about, its the longterm future.




Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 16:34:41, 24/12/17

Would i welcome such a venture, almost at the bottom of my garden, you bet i would.


your welcome to it  :o

Quote
It would also create much needed employment, however small in number.

Employment opportunities in North Wales are small, and poorly paid.


it would suit you down to the ground then  ;D




Quote
If the Zip wire is not given the go ahead, guarantee some other location, probably in Scotland will dive at the opportunity, knowing the economic benefits it will offer.
well you could have the zip wire next to your house and have people screaming all the way to the caravan park, and if anyone dies you could shove them in the nearby burial chamber  :D
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 16:44:59, 24/12/17
I have no such issues with inward investment projects.
Argue your case with youngsters who live and go to school in nearby Dyffryn school, in Harlech.
What future do they have to remain in the area, once they leave school.
There are virtually no job opportunities in this part of North wales, and no doubt the same can be said for Thirlmere,  and when another part of the country are reaping the financial rewards of a project, initially destined for them.

I am sure they will be mighty glad the despoilment of their stunning locality did not go ahead.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: DevonDave on 16:48:49, 24/12/17
its the longterm future.
That's the whole point DA, you can't get much more longterm than natural scenic beauty!


Incidentally, what do Saturn V rockets have do do with it?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 17:49:06, 24/12/17
DA have you read the 15 page letter to the LDNPA from the planning officer Laura Fiske? I am not referring to the article, the link to the letter is at the bottom of the article. Once you have read the letter and understand the Sanford Principle and other LDNP core policies, try and make your argument stand.


We are not discussing Wales or other planets, we are talking about the Lake District by the way.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 19:06:00, 24/12/17
It does not matter which National park we are discussing.
Some Park authorities see developments such as these as huge opportunities to attract thousands of new visitors, many of whom would never have thought of visiting that area.
Jobs, and prosperity for that particular area, are what's most important.
There are some amazingly beautiful areas of the United Kingdom, that are chronically poor, with decades of under investment.

Preventing a particular project, just because it might despoil a nice view.

We all have are opinions on such matters, in this case we beg to differ on the subject.
What good is a view, if your economic prospects are poor.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Mel on 19:15:02, 24/12/17
It does not matter which National park we are discussing.


Yes it does.  The heading of this thread states what the topic is about quite clearly. 


If you want to discuss other developments in other national parks then start a new topic.


Quite frankly, your thread hijacks are getting tiresome now.


It's not all about you and your opinion.  And, if you want to be the centre of attention, keep it on topic or start your own.


Thank you.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:22:15, 24/12/17
You must not have read the 15 page letter then?


DA the economic prospects are not poor in the Lake District. The number of visitors increases every year. There is no need essential need for this development. People are not objecting just because the view may be spoilt. Read the 15 page letter and educate yourself before you comment again, read the objections from the Wainwright Society, The National Trust, or you will continue to come across as someone who hasn't grasped any of what is being debated.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: bricam2096 on 19:45:35, 24/12/17
Obviously it's Chrismas...the season for talking B0LL0CKS  ::)

This thread is about Thrilmere, and nothing to do with your beloved Snowdonia ot the powers that be who run that Park.

Personally I think you're being very naive and blinkered if you think an "investment" like this will cast a magic wand over Thrilmere and make the area financially better off and even if it did, at what expense?

People like us (walkers) will spend a day in the hills (or more) and enjoy the natural scenery and sounds that go with it. Nothing better than sitting at a summit having your lunch and enjoying the views and the only sounds you hear are the birds and/or the wind.

People going to these Zip wires will have their 10-15 minute "thrill experience" and then head home, they won't care less about the beauty of their surroundings or the local area and will head home soon after, no doubt moaning about how far they have had to drive and how busy the roads were getting there.

The only people who will benefit from these plans are the investors and the companies who back the proposals....money talks.

When the novelty wears off and the zip wire company closes, will towns like Keswick become ghost towns? Hardly, it's usually very busy when I pass through it or visit it and will continue to be this way with or without a zipwire.

Out of interest DA, when did you last visit the Lake District, was it "many years ago" by any chance? I fail to see why you are posting backing the zip wire, either you are deliberately trying to wind up people (just for a change) or you really do not have a clue.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 19:48:37, 24/12/17
The only real issue for most of the objectors, is that a view will be spoilt, well so what, if that is the only negative response they can come up with, then i pitty them.
The proposed 53 created jobs, and magnificent cycle track was at the back of their minds.
Obviously little regard was given to the job prospects of the young in that area.
A few dozen jobs may not be that important to some, but it was interesting to note the the majority of visitors now visiting the area, were of a mature age, many of whom are financially sound, and have no reason to worry about the future.


This was a development that was far from profit only, but an idea that would have benefited a much wider community.


Let's hope another area has more insight into what attracts a younger visitor.


The Alfred Wainwright old retired person, enjoying the fells, is unfortunately a symbol held dearly in the Lakes.


Its a symbol that is a thing of the past, and its the future that's more important, a future that belongs to the young, just as much as those older, set in their ways and  nothing must change fraternity.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 20:56:29, 24/12/17
The only real issue for most of the objectors, is that a view will be spoilt, well so what, if that is the only negative response they can come up with, then i pitty them.

I pity you DA because you are coming across as being incredibly stupid, is it intentional or are you being deliberately obtuse and flaming as bricam suggests?

You must not have read my responses asking you to read what the objectors are actually objecting to and it isn't just about the bleddy view!

Your response seems to imply you think a decision has been made? Laura Fiske is from the Friends of the Lake District, it is the LDNP planners who will make the decision.

Read what the objectors are saying, including the 15 page letter from Friends of the Lake District and if you mention what you think about the Sandford Principle and how it could affect how the LDNPA assess this application then I may take you seriously. Instead you keep spouting the same rubbish about people needing jobs in this area. They don't! The jobs that will be offered by TTT/Zip World if they are the same as in Wales are on shockingly bad contracts, no secure number of hours, one season contracts. It is not 53 jobs by the way it is also sometimes 28 FTE but this has been touted as low as 6 in some of TTT's documents. Hardly worth ruining a peaceful valley for is it? Have you ever been to Thirlmere?

You seem to be repeating the sort of bilge that Mike Turner is. Nonsense that is not based on any sort of reality. There are plenty of young people who visit the Lake District, we don't need to encourage young people here, they come for the mountains and lakes already. Are you seriously saying that the mountains and lakes of the Lake District are a thing of the past? Are they going to disappear? Or are you saying that people will suddenly not want to climb, scramble, walk up the fells and people will stop wanting to sail, canoe, kayak on the lakes sometime in the near future?

Unless you provide an educated answer I will not respond to any more of your posts if you are just repeating the same crap about jobs and young people, I have better things to do.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: DevonDave on 22:15:19, 24/12/17
either you are deliberately trying to wind up people (just for a change) or you really do not have a clue.


I suspect it's the former.


See Wikipedia:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: tenmilesplus on 00:08:15, 25/12/17
DA...The Young will also be old one day, they hope.. Are you suggesting the Lake District is changed 'for the benefit of the young' and when they are old the Lake District be changed back again ' for the benefit of the old ?

  The point of keeping parts of the Country 'unspoilt' is that there IS somewhere for EVERYONE to enjoy, old, young, elderly, infirm, disabled.. yes, Everyone..
 If these places are changed they will cease to be there for the enjoyment of all and become a playground for the few..
 These are the main feelings of those that are objecting so lets keep the Lake District ( and it IS the Lake District not 'The Lakes' ) a place for ALL and not a playground for the few..

 Something like a Zip wire will be of interest for the few, if you think the Zip wire will interest the Many then why is the Lake District so popular WITHOUT one ? The lake District has been a popular location for MANY years, a Zip wire will add nothing but traffic ( road and foot ) to the Lake District which will increase the cost of maintenance but add very little to the LOCAL economy in relation, a few jobs and possibly a bit of money but the real profits will go to the Company and the Companies that may be incidental such as cafes and pubs but this sort of business is in no way guaranteed, no local business owner is going to go out and buy a new car with the expected profits based on a 'Zip wire'.. There for the only person that is interested in a Zip wire is the owner of the Zip wire.. The reduction in visitor numbers that attend the area for it's Peace quality may not be substituted by the visitor numbers attending the Zip wire so the 'increase in business' will be next to nothing if any at all.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Skip on 12:39:44, 25/12/17
Quite frankly, your thread hijacks are getting tiresome ....  if you want to be the centre of attention, keep it on topic or start your own.

Hear hear!

DA, as so often you are being deliberately provocative. Your interventions are irritating and attention-seeking.

Trolling has been a problem on the internet since the days of Usenet and BBS in the 1980s. The most effective response remains as it was then - 'Don't feed the trolls'.
 
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 22:04:55, 03/01/18
Ramblers Statement on Thirlmere Zipwire Proposals

As Ramblers, we value our countryside for its natural beauty, sense of peace and tranquility and
wildlife, as well as its vital role in promoting wellbeing and sustainable economic growth. We
believe that development should work harmoniously with the countryside and that our
landscapes need to be developed sensitively, so that the communities living in them can benefit
from the services and infrastructure they require in order to have a sustainable future.
Thousands of our volunteers work actively across the country, applying their expert and local
knowledge of their landscape, walking environment, community and economy to evaluate and
respond to planning and landscape issues in their local areas and we fully support the work
they do. In this instance, we are pleased to support the decision that the local Ramblers areas,
together with some of our members in their personal capacity, have taken to object to the Zip
Wire proposals
, which they consider will adversely affect the landscape character, tranquillity
and visual amenity of the area.

--------------

I recently contacted the Ramblers for their position on the zipwire and the above is their response to me, it is also downloadable from their website:

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/~/media/Resources/Volunteer%20resources/Protecting%20and%20expanding%20where%20we%20walk%20toolkit/Our%20statement%20on%20Thirlmere%20zip%20line%20proposals.pdf (http://www.ramblers.org.uk/~/media/Resources/Volunteer%20resources/Protecting%20and%20expanding%20where%20we%20walk%20toolkit/Our%20statement%20on%20Thirlmere%20zip%20line%20proposals.pdf)


The Campaign for National Parks (CNP) , with which the Ramblers are affiliated, have already spoken out against the proposals but it's good to see the Ramblers also releasing their own statement on the subject.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Peter on 14:18:56, 04/01/18
What was the name of the Welsh guy from Llandudno? The one that Glyno seemed to hate?
Llandudno Lad or something??



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 14:50:42, 04/01/18
I recently contacted the Ramblers for their position on the zipwire and the above is their response to me, it is also downloadable from their website

I saw the Ramblers post on Zip Off last night Strider, your efforts paid off  O0 They are a bit late to arrive at the party but still very welcome, they will have a lot of influence and I hope it generates more letters of opposition  :)

What was the name of the Welsh guy from Llandudno?

Llandudnoboy. I am totally baffled why you are asking about him  ;)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 15:04:25, 04/01/18
For those that wish to write a letter to LDNP about the zip wire plans here are the links again. The date has been extended to 12/1/18

The planning application
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298

Send your email to [email protected]
Include your name, address, the date and the application reference 7/2017/2298

It has new documents on there from Cumbria County Council, Allerdale Borough Council and Buttermere Parish Council that I haven't read yet but will do when I post this.

Friends of the Lake District info pages - very good advice on here about sending your letter/email
https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Pages/Site/thirlmere/Category/thirlmere-zip-wires

Sign the Zip Off petition here, 9,407 at the moment
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/say-no-to-zip-wires-across-thirlmere?source=facebook-share-button&time=1511534681
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:16:27, 04/01/18
An interesting and thought provoking blog by Kingsley Jones on the subject of the Zip Wire.

He's done it in the form of a letter to Mike Turner of Tree Top Treks.

https://kingsleyjones.com/2018/01/01/wireless-adventure/

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 15:30:31, 04/01/18
Thanks for the link Lakeland Lorry

I think this is what most of us feel but are unable to put into words. I wish I had the skills to write as well as Kinglsey Jones, what a brilliant letter.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 09:21:19, 05/01/18
For those who missed the ITV Border report on the Thirlmere Zip Wire, or for those who aren't in the Border region, the Friends of the Lake District have just posted the video of the report on their Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/FriendsoftheLakeDistrict/videos/10155275179212218/

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 09:24:09, 05/01/18
I've pasted below the text that Friends of the Lake District posted on their Facebook page regarding the ITV Border Report.

ITV Border report on the Thirlmere zip wire proposals. Watch the report, see what you think about the views expressed, then read what our CEO, Douglas Chalmers has to say.
 "Zip wires over Thirlmere to boost Cumbria tourism? Who believes that?
 The debate over the planning application to erect eight zip lines over the open water of Thirlmere is coming to head as the deadline for comments is on 12 January.
 Friends of the Lake District has already clearly outlined the planning and landscape reasons why this development should not go ahead – that it would conflict with National Park purposes and planning policy, is inappropriate and so would destroy landscape character, visual amenity and tranquillity.
 This is what it says in our official response, and what these technical phrases actually mean is that this proposal would deprive visitors to our National Park of the special benefits they currently experience for free.
 This is why I have been surprised and disappointed by the reactions of Cumbria’s Local Enterprise Partnership and of Cumbria Tourism. The LEP’s Strategic Economic Plan 2014-2024 lists “Vibrant rural and visitor economy” as a priority. Between 2015 and 2016 visitor numbers to Cumbria and the Lake District rose to over 45 million, bringing £2.72 billion into the County and supporting 36,240 full time equivalent jobs. Actual job opportunities created, bearing in mind that many people want to work part time, is over 62,000, 20% of Cumbria’s employment. Anecdotally, we welcomed even more visitors in 2017.
 So when the LEP and Cumbria Tourism say that our businesses need greater visitor numbers, it is hard to argue, and yet visitor numbers are increasing already. Do we know why?
 Perhaps a weaker sterling and nervousness over travelling has kept more people at home in the UK, but they then still have to choose to come to our County. And we do know why they do that. Cumbria Tourism’s own figures show that almost 70% of visitors come here because of our scenery and landscape, and that over half are drawn by the atmospheric characteristics of the area, using words such as “peaceful”, “relaxing” and “beautiful”.
 And this is why the attitude of Cumbria LEP and especially Cumbria Tourism baffles me. I have been listening to rural businessmen across Cumbria for nearly 20 years, and to a man and woman, everyone has acknowledged the importance of our spectacular landscape in attracting customers. They recognise the value, the uniqueness of this place.
 So why would Cumbria LEP and Cumbria Tourism support plans that will obviously benefit one single organisation and yet threatens the livelihoods of many others by damaging the very features that attracts so many of their customers, and that gives them a unique advantage over competitors outside Cumbria?
 Some may try to dismiss this as a spurious argument, but zip wires can be erected anywhere. We have one Thirlmere. Nowhere else looks exactly like it. We have one Lake District. It has a world famous reputation and is now recognised as a World Heritage Site. Why spoil all this, a prime example of how a landscape can benefit the local economy, to satisfy the business ambitions of one organisation?
 If the Lake District Park Authority can ignore its own planning policy and undermine its status as a World Heritage Site, then nowhere in this country will ever be safe from inappropriate development again."



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 11:31:28, 05/01/18
Some may try to dismiss this as a spurious argument, but zip wires can be erected anywhere. We have one Thirlmere. Nowhere else looks exactly like it. We have one Lake District. It has a world famous reputation and is now recognised as a World Heritage Site. Why spoil all this, a prime example of how a landscape can benefit the local economy, to satisfy the business ambitions of one organisation?
 If the Lake District Park Authority can ignore its own planning policy and undermine its status as a World Heritage Site, then nowhere in this country will ever be safe from inappropriate development again."

Well said.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 12:31:49, 05/01/18
Heard on the local news last night (ITV Border) that Honister Slate Mine has now submitted an application for a Zip Wire.

If the Thirlmere Zip Wire ges the go-ahead, then expect to see a deluge of applications for all sorts of things.


Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 12:50:49, 05/01/18
Heard on the local news last night (ITV Border) that Honister Slate Mine has now submitted an application for a Zip Wire.
In a way I think that this may be good news. It will hopefully concentrate the minds of the people on the planning committee. It would be very hard for them to refuse a zip wire anywhere else in the Lakes if they have OKed one at Thirlmere.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 14:43:19, 05/01/18
Heard on the local news last night (ITV Border) that Honister Slate Mine has now submitted an application for a Zip Wire.

Was it as biased reporting as the report on the Thirlmere Zip plans?

I watched that video of the Border ITV coverage of Thirlmere Zip Wire in absolute disgust. I reckon it was about 75% of Mike Turner and Rob Johnson and the reporter telling everyone how wonderful the zip wire would be, apparently you won't hear or see it!! What about the 4x4 army trucks driving people up a steep hillside, no mention of that! Doug Chalmers and Terry Abraham only got a short bit of time to put their views against the zip wire.

ITV Border News you are a disgrace  >:(  I will stick to good old Look North from the BBC.

I think it was on twitter, Terry Abraham mentioned he wasn't very impressed either and mentioned the BBC interviews had been more balanced.

It seems that Cumbria Torurism et al are only interested in people who have £500 to spend. Any employees at the proposed zip wire sites won't be welcome to the Lake District either then! People on low incomes can bog off in other words, that isn't very inclusive is it?

Sorry I'm ranting  :-[
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 15:07:40, 05/01/18
It is even more important now in view of the Honister plans that people get their letters of objection in to LDNP. Please write in if you haven't already

For those that wish to write a letter to LDNP about the zip wire plans here are the links again. The date has been extended to 12/1/18

The planning application
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298

Send your email to [email protected]
Include your name, address, the date and the application reference 7/2017/2298

Friends of the Lake District info pages - very good advice on here about sending your letter/email
https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Pages/Site/thirlmere/Category/thirlmere-zip-wires

Sign the Zip Off petition here, 9,760 at the moment
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/say-no-to-zip-wires-across-thirlmere?source=facebook-share-button&time=1511534681

Cumbria County Council have recommended refusal of the Thirlmere Zip because of the "severe risk" of danger to road users.

Buttermere Parish Council are totally against the zip wire plans at Thirlmere. They are against the Honister plans too, they were last time it was refused.

Allerdale Borough Council had no objections, they thought the noise for residents would be at acceptable levels but they live quite a distance from the zip wires.

I know a lot of people on facebook and on this forum have said Honister should have been granted the zip wires a few years ago. I disagree with this view however. The wire would have began from a fell top, Black Star. I can't see the difference between Black Star and Fleetwith Pike being spoiled by a zip wire and Thirlmere being spoiled by one. The same dangerous precedent would be set if a "quarry" would be deemed a suitable place to have a zip wire. Where next, Coppermines Valley? From the Old Man of Coniston down to the quarry buildings? There are quarries and mines all over the Lake District. Force Crag Mine? Yes, Grisedale Pike or Outerside could be a good place for a zip wire, down to the mine! Lakeland no more, rename it Zipland!



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:17:02, 05/01/18
@ April.     ITV Border News only briefly mentioned that Honister had submitted the planning application, they didn't go into any more detail than that.

The Border News reporter, Fiona Marley Paterson, seems to be defending the zip line on her FB page.   So it's hardly surprising that the news report gave more air-time to Mike Turner, than it did to Terry Abraham and Doug Chambers.

https://www.facebook.com/FionaMarleyPaterson/

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 15:41:28, 05/01/18
ITV Border News only briefly mentioned that Honister had submitted the planning application, they didn't go into any more detail than that.

The Border News reporter, Fiona Marley Paterson, seems to be defending the zip line on her FB page.

Thanks Lakeland Lorry, I am so wound up at the moment I'd better not go on her fb page  :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Brandywell on 15:52:00, 05/01/18
This is the view from the top of Fisher Crag, which is a short distance above the proposed western launching platform for the zip wires.  The photo was taken in 2010 on a walk to Armboth Fell.
I never saw anyone else on the climb through Fishercrag Plantation using an old overgrown forest track which led to a footpath rising though an narrow unplanted strip of land to the top Fisher Crag which is the route of the planned access to the launching platform for the west-east zip wires.
The overgrown green forest track has recently been widened and "improved" and a lot of mature deciduous trees have been felled . . . part of ongoing and normal forestry operations say United Utilities, cynics may think otherwise.
By studying the plans which have been submitted to the LDNPA, I reckon that the 4 west-east zip wires would be visible crossing Thirlmere from behind the top of the larch tree on the lower left (assuming it would be still there of course)  The 4 east-west zip wires would be seen terminating on the unplanted area beside the road (lower centre)
(https://s26.postimg.org/n00c2qwp5/fisher-crag.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Note to Treetop Trek (with apologies to Val Lewton) -  " Let no one say it
                                                                                        (And say it to your shame)
                                                                                        That all was beauty here
                                                                                        Until you came "
ZIP OFF !
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 16:08:42, 05/01/18
Beautiful pic Brandywell  O0

I like the poem. Was it written by Val Lewton?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 18:08:13, 05/01/18
Somehow you cannot blame these companies, for trying to get their planning applications passed, when other individuals are reaping huge profits.



Zip World Bethesda, is going from strength to strength, and such family centred day outs  attract huge numbers of visitors, many of whom have no interest in the surrounding beauty of Snowdonian


If  planning applications do eventually get passed, it can only benefit the entire area, as these tourists, will have to spend their significant capitol once they are in the area.


The Zip world Snowdonia, has already proven its financial benefits to the area, generating near enough £120m for the local economy, as well as securing local jobs.


Local shops, B&Bs etc will all benefit, which can only be a good thing for Cumbria, if the planning application is successful in February.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of people, both local and visitors, are for or against the proposed new projects.

Not everyone is interested in walking up a mountain, and the majority of visitors who use Zip World Bethesda, do not come there for the scenery, that's the last thing on their mind.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 18:31:40, 05/01/18


No April it is definitely not too early for a drink. I am heading for a pint right now.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: sjwato on 18:39:02, 05/01/18
The proposal is for 8 zip wires, to be strung across Thirlmere, with all the associated noise, congestion, intrusive infrastructure and landscape degradation.

There is a demand for thrill-seeking attractions, but not in the heart of the National Park - there are plenty of places in West Cumbria where investment and jobs would welcome and no need to wantonly destroy the the district for commercial greed.

A huge chunk of central Lakeland may be about to be ruined for walkers and all lovers of the outdoors. Virtually every outdoor organisation has a position opposing the application: John Muir Trust, Friends of the Lake District, BMC, National Trust, Open Space Society, Ramblers and the Fell and Rock Climbing Trusts to name a few

The Thirlmere valley is no place for a type of development that more suited to a Theme Park than a National Park and UNESCO World Heritage site. Wantonly vandalising what we've already got adds nothing to the area.


See zipoff.org for more detail and information on how to engage in the planning process.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 18:57:04, 05/01/18
Not everyone is interested in walking up a mountain, and the majority of visitors who use Zip World Bethesda, do not come there for the scenery, that's the last thing on their mind.

Precisely.  So there's absolutely no reason for their funfair ride to be built in a NATIONAL PARK when it could instead be sited almost anywhere else.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:00:28, 05/01/18
Just what I was going to say Strider, bit I have a bit more   :D

Not everyone is interested in walking up a mountain, and the majority of visitors who use Zip World Bethesda, do not come there for the scenery, that's the last thing on their mind.

Right. Diddy Dadu. Using this logic, this zip wire could be put anywhere then, because you have said people are not interested in scenery. So why is there any need to put this in the Lake District? Why not place it over a cement factory? Or a land fill site?

Also
The Lake District is not suffering from lack of visitors




Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 20:24:48, 05/01/18
Thanks for posting that picture Brandywell, lovely view from there.  Undermines the whole 'Thirlmere is man-made so it doesn't matter' argument.

I have a day free Sunday so I may pop down there for a mooch about :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: happyhiker on 11:29:14, 06/01/18
I have felt compelled to write to the Lake District National Park to object to the proposals to install a number of zip wires across Thirlmere. This is a very pretty view which should not be spoiled by such a "theme park" style attraction but more than that, the proposal flies in the face of the principles on which the concept of the National Park is based, not to mention the practical implications of adding something like 127,000 visitors a year to the very busy A591, the primary through route of the Lake District. The full wording of my objection is too long for here but can be seen at http://www.happyhiker.co.uk/Blog/Hiking%20Pages%20-%20Blog.htm (http://www.happyhiker.co.uk/Blog/Hiking%20Pages%20-%20Blog.htm). If you agree, I urge you to object too.  
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Brandywell on 13:22:35, 06/01/18

I like the poem. Was it written by Val Lewton?

I doubt it,  Val Lewton was a novelist, screen writer, and producer of low budget B movies. I think he 'borrowed' and adapted the last lines from an earlier, short poem, about littering circa 1927.  He featured them on a placard in the opening scene of one of his films and they struck a chord with the American and British public in the1940's, plaques bearing the words began to appear in parks etc.
Friend,
When you stray or sit and take your ease
On heath or hill, or under spreading trees
Pray leave no traces of your wayside meal,
No paper bag, no scattered orange peel,
Nor daily journal littered on the grass;
Others may view these with distaste, and pass;
Let no one say, and say it to your shame,
That all was beauty here until you came.
Anonymous
I like Mr.Lewton's adaptation, splitting the final lines emphasises the message - to us all.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 15:56:21, 07/01/18

Article in today's Observer

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/07/campaigners-zip-wire-lake-district-environmental-thirlmere-reservoir-attraction



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 18:50:48, 07/01/18
Good article, thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 12:41:30, 09/01/18
Another write-up about the Zip Wire.   This one is written by a young person.   It's good to get their perception on it.

https://www.familyadventureproject.org/2018/01/why-the-lake-district-doesnt-need-thirlmere-zipwire/#.WlR1OHQt35l.facebook

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 14:12:11, 09/01/18
Thanks for that link LL - nice piece.


The more I think about this the more it makes me angry - there appears to be little pre-existing demand for this development, merely a business wanting to make money and, presumably it has produced a business plan saying that they can drum up a certain amount of interest, and b0xxocks to the environment.  "The people want what the people get" as The Jam might say.


I have been away since shortly after Christmas, ironically in Chatel, in the French alps, where there is a similar installation (Fantasticable).  I have also witnessed this one in mid summer and the noise is significant from only one wire in each direction.  The difference being that the development there is in an area already scarred by the ski industry (though crossed by the GR5). 


I have read with amazement some of the comments from a member of this forum - it beggars belief.


Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:32:34, 09/01/18
I think it's interesting to contrast the location of Zip World in Wales, with the proposed site of the zip wire(s) in the Lake District.   Especially as a lot of those who are in favour of Thirlmere as a location for a zip wire, think that Thirlmere has already been destroyed by the hand of Man.

Here's a photo of Penrhyn Quarry in North Wales:

(http://i66.tinypic.com/n5gfbk.jpg)

and here's a photo of Thirlmere:

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2nu0ite.jpg)




Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 15:41:33, 09/01/18
That sums it up perfectly.  One a great use of a horribly scarred landscape.  The other a horrible scarring of a beautiful landscape.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:58:18, 09/01/18
Friends of the Lake District have just posted this on their FB page:

*SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT*
On Saturday 27th January we will be holding a PROTEST RALLY AGAINST THE THIRLMERE ZIP WIRES PROPOSAL bringing together people who want to visibly show their support against the development of a zip wire attraction at Thirlmere ahead of the application going to the Lake District National Park  planning committee. Full details on taking part in the event will be available shortly.

If you would like to be added to our mailing list for details, please follow this link: https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/newsletter-signup (https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/newsletter-signup)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Steve18566 on 10:54:36, 10/01/18
Something I've not seen mentioned when comparisons are made with Thirlmere and Penrhyn. Penrhyn is NOT in Snowdonia National PArk, Thirlmere is most definately in The Lake District National Park
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: fernman on 13:58:21, 10/01/18
That sums it up perfectly.  One a great use of a horribly scarred landscape.  The other a horrible scarring of a beautiful landscape.
Something I've not seen mentioned when comparisons are made with Thirlmere and Penrhyn. Penrhyn is NOT in Snowdonia National PArk, Thirlmere is most definately in The Lake District National Park

The same applies to the Blaenau Ffestiniog site as well as Penrhyn.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 16:03:54, 11/01/18
discussed on radio 4. listen from about 51min 45sec:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09kq18d (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09kq18d)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 16:23:58, 11/01/18
You have to laugh at the utter tripe that comes out of Mike Turner's mouth. No environmental impact? He thinks 127,000 people will come to use the zip wires each year, that is a lot of extra car journeys. Ex army trucks going up and down Fisher Crag all day?

There is an interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow morning. The Friends of the Lake District were there, not sure who else was interviewed.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 16:37:33, 11/01/18
I have had a response from United Utilities to my request for contact details for their non-execs - its in the email I have cut and pasted below, though it is actually the address of the Co Secretary.  Interesting that I get this response the day before the closure of the consultation period, while his first response was received within 24 hours some weeks ago.

 
"Dear Mr Sharman,  

 
Thank you for your e-mail in response to my previous reply. 
 
First, let me answer your query about the £1.7m investment figure you have quoted from the socio-economic report.  Prior to Treetop Trek submitting their planning application we carried out some work to ensure that the proposal was viable from an environmental and infrastructure perspective.  As part of that assessment it was apparent that, should Treetop Trek be successful in gaining planning permission for their proposal, we would need to invest in our car parks and an underpass at the southern end of Thirlmere to enable safe access and complete the cycleway.  The figures quoted for that upgrade are indicative of the investment we would need to make should Treetop Trek be given the go ahead by the Lake District National Park Development Committee.
 
In response to your question about our non-executive directors, the most appropriate person would be the Chair of our Corporate Responsibility Committee, Lord Stephen Carter, who leads the board’s agenda on acting responsibly as a business.  Should you wish to pursue this matter with Lord Carter, he can best be contacted via our Company Secretary:  [email protected] ([email protected])
 
I trust my response answers your questions.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
 
Steve Mogford"
Just listened to Mike Turner - I'm afraid I had to switch him off (but thanks for posting the link Glyno).
Paul

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:57:17, 12/01/18
pdstsp the timing of that reply like you say is "interesting"!

I watched the interview this morning on Breakfast at 6.50. I don't know if there was a longer version played later in the programme, I will have a look on iplayer later.

I'm a bit disappointed with the BBC report, they mentioned the participants would have a "short trek" onto Fisher Crag but failed to mention the ex-army trucks that would be driving them most of the way up!

When Douglas Chalmers of FOTLD was speaking the caption only said "Douglas"?

I am reassured that Mike Turner's thinks his zip wire will encourage people to go discover the fells and go fell walking. What a wonderful, altruistic fellow he is  ;)






Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 12:26:59, 12/01/18
I suspect that if Mike Turner thought it would turn a profit, he would want to install escalators up the more popular fells  >:(
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 12:41:35, 12/01/18
If anyone has not written a letter of objection to the zip wire plan then this afternoon is your last chance.  


It will only take a few minutes.


You don't want to be standing on the top of Helvellyn with your grand-kids saying 'I can remember before this was all here.....'
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:02:17, 12/01/18
A spokesperson from the Zip Off Thirlmere campaign has been interviewed by Sky News.

Here's a link to the interview:  https://youtu.be/yuNVgHjmcSA 


Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:04:24, 12/01/18
Friends of the Lake District have posted the following blog on their website today:

https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/blog/zip-wires-over-thirlmeres-open-waters-should-our-hearts-rule-our-heads

Zip wires over Thirlmere’s open waters. Should our hearts rule our heads?
Douglas ChalmersChief Executive, Friends of the Lake District
   Last day before the consultation closes. Last day to make sure that we have had our say, that any points we are bursting to make are registered.
Of course, this is “just a planning application”, that is in a prescribed process and any decisions must follow planning rules. But even within the National Park and World Heritage Site that is the Lake District, Thirlmere is a special place. The birthplace of the conservation movement. The valley that links the North and South Lakes. A distinctive landscape in itself.
There are those who say that Thirlmere is a manmade landscape. Of course it is, just as the majority of Cumbria’s landscapes are. From the tapestry of colours and shapes created by our farmers and foresters and drystone wallers, through the historic bridges that look “just right” in their setting, to the distinctive buildings in our villages and farm steadings, the hand of man is everywhere and contributes to the majesty and beauty of the area. These all contributed to our being granted World Heritage status. Thirlmere is specifically mentioned in the Inscription.
(https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/GetImage.aspx?IDMF=48e0e624-494c-48c7-8ec6-452ee0d1f350&w=560&h=420&src=mc)
Image by Christine Shaw
Some say, “Well, there’s a road and car parks there anyway, so what tranquillity is there to spoil?” Unless I’m misunderstanding the principle of a zip wire, it has two ends, and I cannot believe anyone could say that the tranquillity of the west bank will not be shattered by landings, transfers and take-offs from that side.
“But young people want attractions like this to bring them to the Lake District”. “We need to create these exciting activities to bring more people into the area”. Who says that young people only want this type of activity? How judgemental is that? Of course the thrill of a zip wire is attractive, but that particular thrill could be achieved anywhere. Young people also demonstrate their enthusiasm for walking, climbing, scrambling, cycling, swimming, and even sitting still and letting the peace and the grandeur wash over and soak into them.
“The County needs more visitors to support more jobs”. Absolutely, but let’s think where they are going to go. The Lake District National Park Authority wants “initiatives that reduce non-essential travel, especially car based visitors, over Dunmail Raise between North and Central/South East areas”. There are other areas in Cumbria, not necessarily in the Lake District, that are crying out for visitor spend, so why aren’t we encouraging projects that will spread visitors over the whole County?
Cumbria Tourism’s own figures confirm that the majority of visitors come to the County because of the scenery and landscape and the atmospheric characteristics of the area, using words such as “peaceful”, “relaxing” and “beautiful”. The estimates for new jobs, visitors and income for the zip wires are dwarfed by the existing (and increasing) 62,000, 45 million and £2.72 billion. Do we put this success and that of many other small businesses dependent on visitors, at risk for the sake of one company’s development and to satisfy the thrill-seeking of a relatively small number of visitors with plenty of money?
(https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/GetImage.aspx?IDMF=a0360826-63f6-431f-8f76-a542fd3f35b4&w=560&h=560&src=mc)
Image by Colin Barnes
For landscape reasons and National Park planning rules, this development should not go ahead. It would conflict with National Park purposes and planning policy, is inappropriate and would destroy landscape character, visual amenity and tranquillity. Cumbria County Council recommend refusal because “it is likely to increase the risk and danger and inconvenience to all users of the highway”, a risk they describe as “severe”.
This is not a case of environmentalist luddites against anything new. Zip wires are not a bad thing, but they can be erected in the wrong place. Across Thirlmere is one of these wrong places.
The Lake District has a world famous reputation. It now recognised a World Heritage Site. We have an excellent example of how a landscape can provide huge benefits, spiritual and economic, to residents, businesses and visitors.
Head versus heart decision? In this case, there is no conflict, and this proposed development should be refused.



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 16:32:42, 12/01/18
Thanks for the links LL  O0

I see the BBC did get the caption right for Douglas Chalmers the second time around  ::)

Terry Abraham mentions on his fb page that BBC Look North (NE and Cumbria) were filming him today about the zip wire so this may be on the local news tonight. I will post a link once it is on iplayer.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 06:51:33, 13/01/18
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09ljwpr/look-north-north-east-and-cumbria-evening-news-12012018#

Here is the link to the programme, the report on the zip wire starts 11 minutes 58 seconds in

It is only available until 7pm tonight

Mike Turner is now saying that the 18 million people who already come to the Lake District don't actually get out of their cars and climb the fells. The zip wire will encourage them to do this  ;D
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Peter on 09:16:33, 15/01/18

Mike Turner is now saying that the 18 million people who already come to the Lake District don't actually get out of their cars and climb the fells. The zip wire will encourage them to do this  ;D


Bit daft isn't it? Suggesting ALL 18 million don't get out? That doesn't help his argument.
I live in a so called tourist trap. There are a lot who don't actually walk the fells, they arrive knowing the name and assuming the town itself is something special. They leave disappointed.
I live in Settle and it is dying.
Quite a few places to eat, none of which are doing well. The handful of outdoor shops, dwindling down to one this year.
Doesn't hurt me a lot, I'm retired, but the local kids  ARE having to leave.
During summer there are thousands of bikers (motor and cycles) who arrive and like to 'be seen' and have a natter amongst themselves. Sadly some then move on to die in the area.
Many thousand come and 'do' one or all three of the peaks. They spend nowt.
I see some great walking kit walking around, just making a fashion statement and all bought online.
It IS a problem. Areas like ours do need income generators. But what?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:41:18, 15/01/18
Its capitalsm innit! I like to offer something profound but I can't. The Lake District for some people is a theme park but not 'theme parky' enough for many. I decided to ask some people in the pub where I liveabout what they think of the idea. The basic view was, as one man in particular put it, "could'nt give a toss, its only a couple of wires mate", others more or less agreed but much more politely. We, I think live in an entertainment driven society and we do not make things anymore, so as the story goes, to provide jobs and profits, what a great idea!
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 10:56:37, 15/01/18
The issue being that it is not just a couple of wires.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:56:59, 15/01/18
For Peters town, again perhaps not enough entertainment on offer? Eating and drinking tons of coffee and cake, posing with your flash bike is obviously not enough, maybe Settle needs a zip wire, or a night club or two? In our different ways, even places like Portsmouth have to put up with this kind of thing. We have a large student population and loads of local and external 'capitalists' are always trying to think of new ways to cash in by offering new entertainment for them. In our case we have a hideous concrete tower (my view, others think its beautiful!) at the harbour entrance and outlet shopping centre called Gunwharf Quays. So many many eating and drinking outlets to please the punters and of course the twinkly lights as well, plus the usual shoe shops. It has has its benifits, our estate used to have vandalism problems but since Gunwharf Quays opened we have not had any problems what so ever, they all go there instead.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:57:57, 15/01/18
The issue being that it is not just a couple of wires.

For most people I bet it is.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 06:33:00, 17/01/18
Rally taking place on 27th, free coach pick-up from various locations:

https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Event/protest-rally-against-the-thirlmere-protest-rally-against-the-thirlmere-zip-wires-proposal
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: happyhiker on 09:29:32, 17/01/18
[quote
Mike Turner is now saying that the 18 million people who already come to the Lake District don't actually get out of their cars and climb the fells. The zip wire will encourage them to do this  ;D



A poor arguement. The type of people who "...do not get out of their cars....." are unlikely to be adventurous enough to hurl themselves along a zip wire!


I am not against zip wires per se, it is a question of location.


Also, the arguement the Thirlmere scheme will create jobs is poor. I see they are described as "full time equivalent". This means seasonal, "gig economy" type work. What young people need are proper jobs, which probably mean allowing more industry to be created in the Lakes. Even if this created a few ugly areas, I would rather that, with real, full time jobs than seasonal "Alton Towers" work. This would also encourage younger people to stay in the Lakes.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 08:48:13, 18/01/18
A lovely piece written by Melvyn Bragg about Thirlmere.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5282113/Pans-criss-cross-reservoir-wires-abomination.html

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:52:22, 18/01/18
A lovely piece written by Melvyn Bragg about Thirlmere.

It is indeed, Melvyn Bragg has a lovely way with words :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: photonut on 12:34:37, 18/01/18
They are discussing the wretched zip-wire plans today on BBC Radio 2.  Hopefully draw more attention to this un-wanted 'theme park ride'
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 12:49:01, 18/01/18
Shame that the article and programme weren't about before the deadline for objections.


I wonder how long the planning process will actually take, we objected to something near our house in the summer and though the deadline for objections was early August and it was supposed to go to the planning department before October they still haven't decided.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 20:18:58, 18/01/18
https://twitter.com/ZipOffThirlmere/status/954071356290879494

The MOD are objecting to the Zip Wires  O0  O0  O0

Ridge, I think I read that the LDNPA will make some sort of response on the 24th Jan and say when they will be deciding the planning app, on 7th Feb or 7th Mar (if I remember it correctly)

Edited to add
Also @ Ridge you might like this open letter that is on Zip Off

"An open message to United Utilities:

United Utilities: We stand opposed!

The opposition to the Treetop Trek proposal to string zip wires across the birthplace of the modern environmentalist movement has united an incredibly diverse range of highly respected organisations and individuals. Today we are able to share with you the news that the M.O.D. objects to the zip wire proposal.

We want you to listen to us. Thousands of people have spent their time explaining to you why they object to this proposal.

United Utilities, you claim to be 'custodians' of Thirlmere and its catchment area.Today we tell you, United Utilities, and your CEO Steve Mogford, to prove it!"
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 08:14:05, 19/01/18
I've been waiting for the MOD's objection.   It's obvious to anyone who's been to Thirlmere that the MOD use it for low level flying training.   Would love to hear Mr Turner's response to their objection.

Love this spoofed photo of Boris that Zip Off posted on their Twitter feed:

(http://i68.tinypic.com/mr3iif.jpg)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 08:26:37, 19/01/18
If he's going to be hung on it permanently I am now in favour of the zip wire.
The world would be a much better place with fewer racist sexist blonde baffoons. If they would put the other one underneath it I am happy for them to fill Thirlmere with concrete.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Skip on 08:50:15, 19/01/18
https://twitter.com/ZipOffThirlmere/status/954071356290879494 (https://twitter.com/ZipOffThirlmere/status/954071356290879494)

The MOD are objecting to the Zip Wires  O0 O0 O0


Here is the text of their letter of objection:

Thank you for consulting the Ministry of Defence (MOD) on the above proposed development which was received by this office on 29/11/2017.

The applicant is seeking permission for a development of a zipwire attraction, a series of improvements to the round Thirlmere cycleway, improvements to car parks, access paths and the extension and development of an existing toilet block to provide reception, changing area and toilet facility.

The proposal falls within Low Flying Area 17 in particular a valley where a high volume of low level military aircraft including fast jets can be expected due to low flying military training conducted in this locality.

The proposed cable in this location poses a risk to low flying operations due to military aircraft not being able to readily identify wires or safely navigate away from them.

Competent and confident flying at low level is an essential skill for our aircrew; valley flying is one of the most demanding elements. The Lake District is used by both experienced crews and students undertaking Basic Fast Jet Training, Advanced Flying Training and those from the Defence Helicopter School; activity stands to be severely affected, with impacts recognised in safety, cost, efficiency and output.

Therefore, this application could cause a significant hazard and it would significantly impact upon vital military training conducted in this area.

The MOD therefore objects to this application.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:54:03, 19/01/18
Would love to hear Mr Turner's response to their objection.

I am sure he will find something utterly ridiculous to say
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 10:03:05, 19/01/18
Perhaps he will refer to the adrenaline rush of being buzzed by a jet while crossing Thirlmere on a wire - extra £20 taken from your credit card when this happens.


Just signed up for the rally on 27th, and hoping, weather and roads permitting, to be spending the day up there tomorrow in the snow.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Peter on 10:08:44, 19/01/18
Shame that the article and programme weren't about before the deadline for objections.


I wonder how long the planning process will actually take, we objected to something near our house in the summer and though the deadline for objections was early August and it was supposed to go to the planning department before October they still haven't decided.


We often to fail to understand the planning system, especially when we choose to object to something.
The law doesn't give the planners a lot of leeway to simply listen to objections, no matter how many feel your new extension (or zip wire) will 'spoil the view'. There must be concrete objections based  on planning law.
e.g. The application goes against the  stated planning policy for this area because....
or, the existing facilities are already under used and a further helipad would not be helpful.


This is why serious objections need to be put together by planning experts.
The planners already have to consider whether the appearance of something falls within the rules or not.
If there are 1,000's of objections on the basis of 'spoil the view' they will not make any difference.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 11:18:22, 19/01/18

The planners already have to consider whether the appearance of something falls within the rules or not.
If there are 1,000's of objections on the basis of 'spoil the view' they will not make any difference.

The Friends of the Lake District, The Campaign for National Parks, the John Muir Trust, and most of the other environmental bodies have all quoted the relevant Planning Policies that the applications conflicts with.    As far as I can see, the only 'bodies' that support the application are commercial ones.


http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298 (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Peter on 13:23:23, 19/01/18
The Friends of the Lake District, The Campaign for National Parks, the John Muir Trust, and most of the other environmental bodies have all quoted the relevant Planning Policies that the applications conflicts with.    As far as I can see, the only 'bodies' that support the application are commercial ones.


http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298 (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2298)


Cheers, very helpful.
Looks like bats may save the day again. :)

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:29:07, 19/01/18
We often to fail to understand the planning system, especially when we choose to object to something.

Do we? I'm not sure who you mean when you say "we"?

If there are 1,000's of objections on the basis of 'spoil the view' they will not make any difference.

Are there 1,000's of objections on the basis of "spoil the view"? Have you been to the LDNPA offices to read them all? If you haven't then you are making a huge assumption.

In my letter of objection I never referred to "the view" once.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 13:43:47, 19/01/18
I can't recall mentioning the view at all in my letter of objection.

I did mention that it conflicted with the purpose of the Lake District National Park and that it would set a precedent for other similar applications to follow suit.   Also that it could affect the Unesco World Heritage status that the Park had worked so hard to achieve.




Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 13:46:37, 19/01/18
Simon Noble's Zip Off Campaign, which I did sign, states the following:

Please do not grant permission for Zip Wires across Thirlmere.
The landscape of Thirlmere, especially around the western side, will be negatively affected by the noise and visual impact of clients flying across the lake. Additionally, creating a launch area near the summit of Fisher Crag will mean regular traffic between the road and the crag. All of this will spoil  the peacefulness and landscape currently enjoyed by locals and visitors alike.
Why is this important?The western side of Thirlmere has a strong sense of tranquillity and evokes a sense of calm. Views from the water’s edge are outstanding. The Park Authority recognises these features and the need to retain them.The developers say their proposal is consistent with planning policy. It isn’t.Core Strategy 1 of the LDNPA says, “We will only support development proposals which conserve and enhance the special qualities of the LDNP”There is nothing to indicate that locals or tourists want or need more Zip Wires.There is nothing to indicate we need “to target the under 35s” as the developers claim.


So none of the 13,000 people who have so far signed the petition, have mentioned the view either.





Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 14:41:45, 19/01/18

[size=0px]There must be concrete objections based  on planning law.  
e.g. The application goes against the  stated planning policy for this area because....

The planners already have to consider whether the appearance of something falls within the rules or not.
These 2 statements appear somewhat contradictory. Planners consider proposals and their compliance or otherwise with planning policy whether or not anyone objects.

In my letter I deliberately mixed the personal with the more objective. Some poor person does have to read them all.
I talked about how this particular area is important to me and my kids and their introduction to enjoying the countryside but also how I felt that the zip wire was incomparable with the stated aims of the National Park and also its designation as a World Heritage Site.


These will be very similar objections to many other peoples and one person pointing them out should be enough even if the planners don't already know the policy themselves.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, there is possibly a difference between one note to the planners from April on the back of an old OS map cover and 1000s of people taking the time to write and object.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:16:40, 19/01/18
Here's Mr Turner's response to the MOD's decision to object to the zip wire.

   The company released a statement expressing their surprise at the MoD’s decision:"We have been in consultation with the MoD since June 2017 and are in receipt of their written confirmation that they would not be objecting to the Thirlmere project.<blockquote>“We are therefore very surprised by this apparent change in stance and are currently seeking their further clarification."
 </blockquote>


       
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: bricam2096 on 15:29:25, 19/01/18
Here's Mr Turner's response to the MOD's decision to object to the zip wire.

   The company released a statement expressing their surprise at the MoD’s decision:"We have been in consultation with the MoD since June 2017 and are in receipt of their written confirmation that they would not be objecting to the Thirlmere project.<blockquote>“We are therefore very surprised by this apparent change in stance and are currently seeking their further clarification."
 </blockquote>


     

Either that's b0ll0cks from them or the MoD have underestimated the public response and did a U turn  O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 16:00:27, 19/01/18
Found a Consultation report on the planning portal called:  Appendix 2 MOD response Appendix_2_20170626_MOD_Response.doc. (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WCHDISPLAYMEDIA.showImage?theSeqNo=265669&theApnkey=68365&theModule=1)

This is what it says:

Thank you for consulting Defence Infrastructure Organisation (DIO) on the above proposed development. This application relates to a site outside of Ministry of Defence (MOD) statutory safeguarding areas. We can therefore confirm that the MOD has no safeguarding objections to this proposal.
 
In the interests of air safety, the MOD requests that the structure is fitted with aviation warning lighting.  Any tall structure should be fitted with a minimum intensity 25 candela omni directional flashing red light or equivalent infra-red light fitted at the highest practicable point of the structure.
 
Whilst we have no safeguarding objections to this application, the height of the development will necessitate that aeronautical charts and mapping records are amended. Defence Infrastructure Organisation (DIO) Safeguarding therefore requests that, as a condition of any planning permission granted, the developer must notify UK DVOF & Powerlines at the Defence Geographic Centre with the following information prior to development commencing:
 
a.     Precise location of development.
b.    Date of commencement of construction.
c.     Date of completion of construction.
d.    The height above ground level of the tallest structure.
e.     The maximum extension height of any construction equipment.
f.     Details of aviation warning lighting fitted to the structure(s)

This information can be sent by e-mail to UK DVOF & Powerlines at [email protected], or posted to:
 
D-UKDVOF & Power Lines
Air Information Centre
Defence Geographic Centre
DGIA
Elmwood Avenue
Feltham
Middlesex
TW13 7AH
 
I trust this adequately explains our position on this matter, however should you have any questions regarding this matter please do not hesitate to contact me.
 
Many Thanks
Di Sylvester
Assistant Safeguarding Officer
Environment & Planning Support – Safeguarding
DIO Safety Environment & Engineering
Defence Infrastructure Organisation
Kingston Road, Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, B75 7RL
 
 
From: ADAM THOMAS [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 26 June 2017 11:35
To: DIO SEE-EPS SG3a2 (Sylvester, Diane Mrs)
Subject: Thirlmere Zip Lines
 
Dear Diane,
 
Thank you for responding to our inquiries and for the call earlier today. Please find attached the amended route for the ziplines.
 
This takes the highest point of the wire over the lake from 150m down to 135.12m falling to 75.93m at the east side of the lake.
 
The tallest built structure in the scheme will be at 8m above the ground, similar to the Titan launch at Zipworld in Wales pictured below.
 
I look forward to your response and please don't hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.
 
Regards
 
Adam Thomas
Thirlmere Activity Hub

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 16:04:56, 19/01/18
Quote
Meanwhile, back in the real world, there is possibly a difference between one note to the planners from April on the back of an old OS map cover and 1000s of people taking the time to write and object.
  ;D
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:40:37, 19/01/18
Meanwhile, back in the real world, there is possibly a difference between one note to the planners from April on the back of an old OS map cover and 1000s of people taking the time to write and object.

I'm a bit classier than using the back of an old OS map   ;)

I found a tatty old book written by someone called Alfred Wainwright, who is he anyway?  :-\

Here is a pic of the author on top of Raven Crag. Have a look at Raven Crag 4 in the Central Lakes book.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4654/39073647464_1942923ed7_z.jpg) (http://)

I photocopied the page and wrote my reply on the reverse   ;)  Wainwright shows the view, why would anyone need to mention it?  ;)

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 19:51:47, 19/01/18
 :) O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:03:21, 20/01/18
Just signed up for the rally on 27th

We are going too, say hello if you see us  :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 14:48:22, 21/01/18
Hi April -  I will do.


The last protest rally I went to was in 1985, and mainly consisted of shouting "Organise, occupy, kick the Tories out" and being watched very closely by the riot police.  I assume next weekend will be more tranquil.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 17:06:06, 21/01/18
I assume next weekend will be more tranquil.

Unless Mike Turner turns up  ;)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Addingham on 01:49:44, 23/01/18
Heard on the grapevine today. The RAF have officially today put in an objection to this project. Now that may carry some severe weight. Hopefully.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:29:56, 23/01/18
Heard on the grapevine today. The RAF have officially today put in an objection to this project. Now that may carry some severe weight. Hopefully.

It is great news Addingham, the MOD letter was circulated last Thursday 18/1/18 - see the posts on this thread from post 195 - 210. I can't see how the LDNPA could possibly approve this application even without the MOD objection but now it seems that it can't be approved.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:40:38, 23/01/18
Mike Turner hopefully will have time on his hands this year when the Zip Plan is refused. I think he will do very well in a certain competition held in Wasdale every year.

The world's biggest liar competition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Biggest_Liar

He just needs to quote some of  things he put in his planning app and what he has said on camera during the last few months  :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 10:36:30, 23/01/18

Mike Turnip hopefully will have time on his hands this year when the Zip Plan is refused. I think he will do very well in a certain competition held in Wasdale every year.




For God's sake - don't allow him anywhere near Wasdale!
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 12:40:24, 23/01/18
Have just spotted this posted on the Friends of the Lake District FB page:

Thirlmere Activity Hub zip wire application to go to committee on March 7th.  The Lake District National Park have had 3,476 letters and emails of objection, and 163 letters and emails in favour, and a petition of 13,535 objecting, and views from 35 organisations. See the details here:
 http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/…/Med…/68365-269846.01.18.pdf (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/MediaTemp/68365-269846.01.18.pdf)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:19:33, 23/01/18
Thanks LL, those are interesting figures, only 163 in favour!

For God's sake - don't allow him anywhere near Wasdale!

If it was up to me, he would be on the banned list  ::)

Like "Turnip", a much more suitable name.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:56:47, 23/01/18
Below is a quote from Roger Smiths article in The Great Outdoors Feb 18 edition, it says it all really.
The whole article can be read here
http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/news/roger-smiths-column-fog-over-thirlmere/

"Let me remind you of the Sandford Principle, on which the establishment of all our National Parks was based 60 years ago. It says: ‘If it appears that there is a conflict between conservation and development, the National Park Authority shall attach greater weight to the purpose of conserving and enhancing the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the area.’

If the Lake District is to retain its status as a true National Park and be worthy of its accolade as a World Heritage Site, commercialisation such as this cannot be permitted

I would hope that Principle is totally accepted by the LDNPA, in which case there is no need for further discussion. The zipwire scheme is clearly inappropriate and should not go ahead. If it is passed by the LDNPA then I believe those members of the LDNPA board who vote for it should be summarily dismissed and replaced by people who genuinely understand and support Sandford"
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 15:16:22, 23/01/18
Mike Turner hopefully will have time on his hands this year when the Zip Plan is refused. I think he will do very well in a certain competition held in Wasdale every year.

The world's biggest liar competition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Biggest_Liar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Biggest_Liar)

He just needs to quote some of  things he put in his planning app and what he has said on camera during the last few months  :)
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: ninthace on 15:59:46, 23/01/18
Not surprised by the MOD(RAF) objection. Flying over wires is a nightmare especially at low level and high speed.  I have only done it in helicopters and small aircraft but I can attest that it is extremely difficult to judge exactly where the wires are in space so the normal tactic, where possible, is either to fly over one of the supporting pylons (which would probably put the pilots too close to the sides of the valley) or to climb to a safe height well in advance (which detracts from the point of low flying training).  Moreover, the wires themselves would probably have be marked by fluorescent markers, which would not do much for the running properties of the zip wire pulley! Alternatively an additional wire, higher than the zip wires, with markers would have to be deployed.  Neither solution would add to the beauty of the lake!


Which raises another point - measures to mitigate bird strikes on the wires? Large birds such as geese and swans have the same trouble as aircrew when it comes to wires but without the benefit of low flying charts.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 17:06:42, 23/01/18
Thanks LL, those are interesting figures, only 163 in favour!



Must have cost MT a fortune in stamps
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 19:45:22, 23/01/18
I'm sure Richard Leafe helped with a few.....
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 19:57:10, 23/01/18
Got to admit I'm slightly puzzled by the latest turn of events.

- MOD originally offered no objection even after being told how high above the lake the wires would be
- TTT state in their application that cables don't need to be illuminated
- was it not obvious from the outset that this would be a hazard to aircraft?
- now the penny seems to have dropped at Whitehall

If I was TTT I'd be livid about this.  If this gets thrown out on air navigation grounds then the MOD have pretty much wasted everybody's time for the last 3 months.  I wonder if they'll offer to pay Zipoff's web hosting bill? ;)

Pretty sure I read that the Air Ambulance had objected too.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 08:20:15, 24/01/18
Good point - but somehow I doubt Government money will be offered!


I think, though, that we have to hope that this gets rejected on the other grounds, particularly the Sandford Principle as, hopefully, this would stop TTT (or another developer) going to another valley or lake, where low flying is not an issue, and starting the whole process all over again.  Lingmell to Yewbarrow anyone?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 12:42:24, 24/01/18
I remember being surprised at the MOD response in Jun 17 to TTT saying they had no objection. I wonder if the info TTT supplied was not clear enough as to where the wires would be? It seems when they looked at the planning application once it was submitted it was more obvious they had to object to it?

Knowing the load of old tosh that is supplied by TTT and Mike Turner it wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't provided the MOD with the full details in June.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 10:26:36, 26/01/18
The Friends of the Lake District have just posted the following on their FB page.  It's about the planning application for a dual purpose aerial wire at Honister Slate Mine which has now been lodged with the LDNPA.

We have been made aware that the planning proposal detailed below is now live and available to view online at the LDNPA planning portal.
Planning Reference: 7/2018/2011  (Full Planning application)
 Proposal: Dual purpose aerial wire for extraction of stone and tourism use
 Location: Honister Slate Mine, Honister Pass, Borrowdale, Keswick, CA12 5XN

You can view the application here: http://bit.ly/2ncl7Sc (http://bit.ly/2ncl7Sc)


Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 12:13:28, 26/01/18
Thanks LL. I will have a look.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 09:28:28, 29/01/18
Debate in the House of Lords. Transcript here


https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=8cd1aa69-abb2-4bd4-a888-ceec9429283b (https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=8cd1aa69-abb2-4bd4-a888-ceec9429283b)


Never did I think I would see the day where me and Norman Tebbit where on the same side of an argument.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 10:32:29, 29/01/18
Thanks Ridge - I also like David Alton's input (Lord Alton of Liverpool) - the original battle for Thirlmere was referenced several times on Saturday.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:38:14, 29/01/18
I saw the video on facebook, it was weird agreeing with something Norman Tebbit said  :)

The Friends of the Lake District have just posted the following on their FB page.  It's about the planning application for a dual purpose aerial wire at Honister Slate Mine which has now been lodged with the LDNPA.

I've not had much time to look at all the docs just the map of where the zip wire starts and ends.

The wire isn't going to start from the fell top, Black Star, but below it, so this isn't quite as awful as the previous plan. The problems of access and extra traffic on the Honister Pass from Seatoller and Buttermere will still remain and I think I remember this was one of the issues that was quoted in the refused application last time? I still feel that if this is approved it will set a precedent. There are so many quarries and mines in the Lake District, how many more zip wires would we end up with? My gut feeling is that it is still wrong to place a zip wire here although I know a lot of people think this is a good place for it. My thinking is that there is not much difference from putting it here than over Thirlmere, it is from a lake district fellside and the noise of the zippers would be heard on Fleetwith Pike and from the paths up to the Drum House and probably on the other fells nearby too.

I haven't looked at all the docs yet and I'm now wondering how the zippers will get up to the start? I will look at the rest of the docs tonight  :-\
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 13:57:50, 29/01/18
Don't you think that the Honister application is interesting timing, just when perhaps they think people are getting tired of the fight.
If so they have seriously misjudged the type of people they are dealing with, we walk up mountains in the driving sleet  for pleasure.


From a traffic point of view I think you would be hard pressed to find a worse place in England to site an attraction which they are hoping will bring in lots of extra visitors.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:10:03, 29/01/18
From a traffic point of view I think you would be hard pressed to find a worse place in England to site an attraction which they are hoping will bring in lots of extra visitors.

Oh, they have said some people may be using the Honister Rambler bus. Good luck trying to get on it, it isn't always guaranteed to have room, it can be like playing sardines in a tin and people do get turned away because it is full. Oh and it may well overheat on the way up to Honister  :D
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 22:11:35, 29/01/18
I've been looking at some of the docs on the Honister App. Some of the figures are contradictory. The numbers of people who will descend the zip wire are no more than 57 in a day according to the visitor management plan, then no more than 3 groups of 12 in a day according to the noise impact assessment.  Apparently the shouts and screams of zippers will not be heard by humans. I found this hard to believe.

There are 2 parts to the zip wire, the highest one will only be used by people who have ascended the Via Ferrata so at least they will have to put some effort into getting there! They will go down the first zip wire, then use the second one to get down to the car park. Not all people on the Via Ferrata (12 at a time) will want to go down the zip wire and will walk down instead. The second zip wire can be used by disabled people and children under 10. I haven't read all the docs so I'm not sure how they will get to the start of the zip wire. The visitor management plan doesn't mention this 2nd part of the wire and how that will be managed, unless I've missed that bit.

The visitor plan says the Honister Rambler bus is "rarely over-subscribed". They should try getting on the 9.30am bus on a Saturday  ;D

I'm too tired to look at any more of it tonight!
 
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 15:58:11, 05/02/18

Terry Abraham will be on the Inside Out North East and Cumbria programme tonight, which is on BBC1 at 7:30, discussing the Zip Wire.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Glyno on 16:03:50, 05/02/18
Terry Abraham v Mike Turnip this morning, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05vm1q7#play (from approx 13 mins)

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 18:03:48, 05/02/18
Thanks Glyno  O0
I think Turnip must be organic because he's full of bull  :D

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:18:43, 05/02/18
Terry Abraham will be on the Inside Out North East and Cumbria programme tonight, which is on BBC1 at 7:30, discussing the Zip Wire.

Thanks LL, I hope Mike Turnip isn't on as well, I've had enough of listening to the rubbish that comes out of his mouth.

Terry Abraham v Mike Turnip this morning, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05vm1q7#play (from approx 13 mins)

Thanks Glyno. I listened for 10 minutes, the usual load of tripe from Turnip. 4x4 trucks travelling up a steep hillside all day will not be environmentally damaging, what [censored]
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 22:13:03, 05/02/18
Here is the link to Inside Out. Sadly, too much Turnip and no Terry. It seems it is only a few locals who want to save Squirrel Nutkin who are opposed to the zip wire! I think Mike Turner must have put the Imperious Curse on Chris Jackson  :o

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09qr6bh
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 22:28:05, 05/02/18
I cant bring myself to watch them, I know it will only wind me up.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 22:37:36, 05/02/18
Honister was featured as well  :)

I wish I hadn't watched it, I feel so let down by BBC Look North East and Cumbria. I thought Chris Jackson would base his report on actual facts. He based this one on Mike Turner's ridiculous nonsense.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 09:03:17, 06/02/18
I wish I hadn't watched it, I feel so let down by BBC Look North East and Cumbria. I thought Chris Jackson would base his report on actual facts. He based this one on Mike Turner's ridiculous nonsense.

I'm in complete agreement with you April.   Thought the whole report was biased towards Mike Turner.   Very disappointing.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 09:53:05, 06/02/18
I can't bring myself to watch him any more - I don't think it would matter what subject he was talking about, I would just want to punch him  >:( !



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 20:19:38, 06/02/18
Thought the whole report was biased towards Mike Turner.   Very disappointing.

It was disappointing, I had thought Chris Jackson was a fair-minded reporter  :(

I don't think it would matter what subject he was talking about, I would just want to punch him  >:( !

And you seemed like such a nice bloke  :o  ;D

I know exactly what you mean because I feel exactly the same way about Mike Turnip  :tickedoff:
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:51:53, 09/02/18
 :)

Mike Turner has posted  on Zip Offs facebook page unhappy at some of the things that have been posted about him and his company on the facebook page.

Here is his post
"Enough is enough zip off, whoever the hell you all are. You’re all clearly happy to attack me personally without any thought for the truth or the impact your spurious allegations have on my family, friends or staff and the customers of treetop trek.  My name is Mike Turner, my personal email address is [email protected], I live in the village of Storth in South Lakeland and have absolutely nothing to hide or be ashamed of. Perhaps you will all be so kind as to declare yourselves?
For anyone reading this who believes all the nonsense written on this site I have absolutely nothing to say but for anyone with a shred of common decency I hererby invite you to contact me directly and I will be happy to arrange a face to face meeting where you can question the rational behind our proposal and meet face to face the fantastic people who work for treetop trek. You can ask them yourselves what the company is like and how we treat them and our customers.
To be clear, I have absolutely nothing against anyone who opposes our Thirlmere proposal or any desire to try to change your minds, last time I checked this was a free country. There is nothing wrong with two sides disagreeing however there is surely a line of honesty and integrity that should not be crossed. If it is your (zip off) intention to antagonise or bully me then pat yourselves on the back as you’ve succeeded in that task. In the interest of common decency and the integrity of this site and the important debate in hand I can only ask you politely to please stick to the facts and matters in hand"

Please send any emails to [email protected] if you want to give your opinion about "nonsense", "common decency", "rational behind our proposal", "a line of honesty and integrity that should be crossed" and "stick to the facts". These are statements that Mike Turnip will find difficult to back up.

Here is a link to a job advertised on Zip World. Who could possibly get a mortgage based on this contract anywhere, never mind the Lake District?

https://www.zipworld.co.uk/jobs/instructor-at-zip-world-slate-caverns-blaenau-ffestiniog1

https://www.zipworld.co.uk/jobs/cafe-assistant2

Mike Turner IMHO if you had any common decency your jobs would be either fulltime or part time with fixed hours with a proper contract and not just for one season. £8.50 after training? Integrity? If you had any you most certainly would not be planning to desecrate Thirlmere, the birthplace of the modern conservation movement. Oh and IMHO you BULLIED the parish council at St Johns, Castlerigg and Wythburn. See the document on the planning application from your company on LDNPA website, I read that in utter amazement at your total arrogance. Every tv/radio/newspaper interview I've seen and heard about what you have said since, has confirmed to me, that you are the most arrogant, ridiculous, misleading, avaricious, narcissistic, awful human being that I never hope to meet face to face.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 20:32:46, 09/02/18
Wow and 100 percent right April .


He talks of bullying having,seemingly, nailed the media to his cause.


Those terms and conditions are ridiculous - how is that going to keep young people in Cumbria?  I can't believe the arrogance and willingness to lie of the man.





Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 23:52:20, 09/02/18
You know how President Trump is happy to spout any old load of bow-locks but then gets all sulky if anyone calls him out.


I can't imagine what made me think of that.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 12:49:46, 12/02/18
Here is an interesting trip report from wainwrightwalking.co.uk

http://www.wainwrightwalking.co.uk/thirlmere-and-the-zip-wire/

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 14:12:31, 12/02/18
Really interesting report - and shows the lengths to which UU are going to bend over backwards, and the contempt in which they hold the natural environment, particularly when it gets in the way of a buck or two.


Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Addingham on 17:14:41, 14/02/18
Really interesting report - and shows the lengths to which UU are going to bend over backwards, and the contempt in which they hold the natural environment, particularly when it gets in the way of a buck or two.


Paul


Interesting although quite a lot of it was not actually about the zipwire fiasco. It was about the way trees are felled as they were planted as a crop and the need to upgrade forestry tracks to accommodate modern machinery. This happens all over the UK where felling occurs and to widen forest track does not need planning permission unless destruction of certain artefacts.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 17:37:40, 14/02/18
the need to upgrade forestry tracks to accommodate modern machinery. This happens all over the UK where felling occurs and to widen forest track does not need planning permission

That's correct, there is a lot of forestry round here and the tracks need to be improved considerably prior to felling operations.    But in this case UU have applied for retrospective permission for a track which is in just the right place for the proposed zipwire trucks to use.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 22:23:29, 14/02/18
Interesting although quite a lot of it was not actually about the zipwire fiasco. It was about the way trees are felled as they were planted as a crop and the need to upgrade forestry tracks to accommodate modern machinery. This happens all over the UK where felling occurs and to widen forest track does not need planning permission unless destruction of certain artefacts.

Most of it was about the zip wires? All the photos shown in the report are where the zip wires will affect the area in some way or where the vehicles will transport the people up Fisher Crag on the illegally widened forest tracks.

UU also made a mistake in thinking they didn't need planning permission to widen the forest tracks. Like Strider says they have applied retrospectively for planning permission. I do hope it is rejected and they have to put it back the way it was.

If the other plan isn't rejected I'm going to become a Zip Sab and join this little fella. Zip Off posted it on their facebook page  :)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4751/26398516848_f00b6b6df7_z.jpg) (http://)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Addingham on 00:55:02, 15/02/18
 ;D There won't be many red squirrels using this zip wire if planning is allowed. ;)  There aren't any in the Thirlmere conifer plantations. I do know that :P


As for planning permission as stated is not needed for forestry tracks unless they interfere with either public rights of ways or buildings. That is the reason a retrospective planning application has been activated.


Now zipping off to work at UU. ;)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Addingham on 01:29:57, 15/02/18
That's correct, there is a lot of forestry round here and the tracks need to be improved considerably prior to felling operations.    But in this case UU have applied for retrospective permission for a track which is in just the right place for the proposed zipwire trucks to use.


Coincidence? Maybe. To be honest do you think UU would improve their yearly profits considerably with this zip wire fiasco? Doubt it but a real public relations disaster for them.


Unless someone at UU are taking a backhander from the developments original proposer. That has been known.


BTW
I am totally against the plan.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 08:32:53, 15/02/18
UU also made a mistake in thinking they didn't need planning permission to widen the forest tracks. Like Strider says they have applied retrospectively for planning permission. I do hope it is rejected and they have to put it back the way it was.
This is why it is interesting. UU don't need planning permission for logging tracks and yet have applied for it, all be it retrospectively (please, please let it be rejected) for the widening of these tracks. This can only mean that these are NOT intended for logging.


I've emailed UU asking why they are making infrastructure changes ahead of planning permission being granted. I know it will make no difference but it makes me feel like I am doing something.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:52:51, 15/02/18
;D There won't be many red squirrels using this zip wire if planning is allowed. ;)  There aren't any in the Thirlmere conifer plantations. I do know that :P

You do come across as someone who knows a lot.
 
Where do you get your information about no red squirrels at Thirlmere?

There were red squirrels recorded in Thirlmere in 2017. Click on the link below and select the pdf file monitoring report for 2017, page 15, it says red and grey squirrels were recorded.
http://www.rsne.org.uk/squirrel-monitoring-programme

I have seen red squirrels myself around Thirlmere but it is a few years ago now.

Now zipping off to work at UU. ;)

I wouldn't joke about that on here, there are a lot of people very unhappy with UU, you might be drummed off the forum by Ridge  :D

BTW
I am totally against the plan.

 O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 09:13:07, 15/02/18
There were red squirrels recorded in Thirlmere in 2017. Click on the link below and select the pdf file monitoring report for 2017, page 15, it says red and grey squirrels were recorded.
http://www.rsne.org.uk/squirrel-monitoring-programme (http://www.rsne.org.uk/squirrel-monitoring-programme)

I have seen red squirrels myself around Thirlmere but it is a few years ago now.

Before they chopped down the trees on the side of Thirlmere a few years ago, there used to be rope bridges slung high above the road for the red squirrels to use.   So they were certainly there then.



Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pleb on 10:43:26, 15/02/18
Sorry I am out of date......whens the decision due?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 10:48:39, 15/02/18
I think the planning committee report on 20th Feb and the full meeting to approve is on 7 Mrach - but that's a dredge from my memory so could be a load of old b.....ks
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 11:35:04, 15/02/18
Sorry - just looked it up - they will publish the Committee recommendation on 27th, with the final decision meeting on the 7th March


https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/news/national-park-announces-date-thirlmere-zip-wire-application-to-be-decided


Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Addingham on 15:57:23, 15/02/18
You do come across as someone who knows a lot.
 

I wouldn't joke about that on here, there are a lot of people very unhappy with UU, you might be drummed off the forum by Ridge  :D

 O0


The first paragraph about RS's I do >:( . As for UU do you really think that they have extended or widened the forestry tracks to accommodate something that has not even been passed! 2+2= 5 :P  The primary reason is for felling!


End of story.


A ban hopefully it is a coming :o  Cannot seehow personally. ;)

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 16:15:44, 15/02/18

As for UU do you really think that they have extended or widened the forestry tracks to accommodate something that has not even been passed! 2+2= 5 :P  The primary reason is for felling!


End of story.
I really do think that they have.


The only track which UU have applied for planning permission to widen in the whole valley is the one between where the zip wire car park would be and where the vehicles would drop the participants, see the link below. Which is understandable as if it was for tree felling they would not need planning permission. If you are sure that the primary reason is for felling why do you think that they have spent time and money applying for planning permission which they do not need?




http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2307&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=705492%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=1525164%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=rgndat:desc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=705492%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E (http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2017/2307&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=705492%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=1525164%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=rgndat:desc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=705492%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 17:57:46, 15/02/18

The first paragraph about RS's I do >:( . As for UU do you really think that they have extended or widened the forestry tracks to accommodate something that has not even been passed! 2+2= 5 :P  The primary reason is for felling!


End of story.



UU may well use the extended track for felling but they sure have picked the convenient track for the zip wire!  I think you may be being naive if you think this is a coincidence - if you see earlier in this thread there is discussion, including with UU, about the money they have spent elsewhere in the area.  Your comment "End of story" is, I think, a little premature and, I suspect, won't stop people making their own minds up.  
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Mel on 18:16:07, 15/02/18
I saw red squirrels in the conifer plantations at the northern end of Thirlmere in October 2017.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:31:01, 15/02/18
UU were told by LDNPA that they had to apply for planning permission retrospectively
See here
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/Thirlmere-roadworks-land-United-Utilities-in-hot-water-d4ac6180-8af3-40d2-8ff5-84416bac53b3-ds

The forest road UU have widened is where the route the army trucks will use up Fisher Crag if the plans are approved. Nobody is saying they are preparing the road in advance of permission for the zip wires, I would think the road would need a lot more work done on it to take the ex army trucks? But UU were incorrect about not needing planning permission to widen this forest road for forestry work.

The first paragraph about RS's I do >:(

You must be privy to information the rest of us are not. You say you "know" there are no red squirrels at Thirlmere, can you tell us how you know this and where they have gone? Thanks in advance, it would be handy to know.

I saw red squirrels in the conifer plantations at the northern end of Thirlmere in October 2017.

I hope they are still there now. If UU forestry work has caused their demise then that is a tragedy.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 07:55:41, 16/02/18
Hmmm...
Something just isn't adding up here  :-\

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: gunwharfman on 09:43:11, 17/02/18
I notice that the Honister Slate mine is trying for a zip wire again.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 10:40:44, 17/02/18
I notice that the Honister Slate mine is trying for a zip wire again.
The link to object, should you wish to, is at the top of this thread.
http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=35920.0 (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=35920.0)





Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 13:27:09, 20/02/18
I have just read on facebook that Mike Turner has scrapped the zip wire plans across Thirlmere!!!!!

I will have another look to make sure it is true, it seems to be on ITV Border news

 :)  :)  :) :)

Here it is
http://www.itv.com/news/border/update/2018-02-20/controversial-zip-wire-plans-scrapped/

I feel all emotional, so relieved, but we should not have been put through all this anyway  :)

Thinking further about it, I wish this had been assessed and thrown out by the planners and not withdrawn for the reasons Turnip has stated in the ITV border article. It should have been refused anyway regardless of any MOD objections. I wonder if he will look somewhere else now, let it not be in the National Park then and somewhere where visitors actually need to be encouraged to visit.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 14:10:31, 20/02/18
Thanks for the pm alerting me to this April - it is great news, though I'm with you - I wish it had been thrown out by the LDNPA - Turnip may be able to resurrect this at a later date, as the only reason he gives is the MOD one.   Still - today we should celebrate that Thirlmere is safe for now!!


And - thanks April for your passion and drive on this - it made me get off my backside and get involved in the movement to get this plan chucked out.


Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 14:10:50, 20/02/18
Great news, thanks for the message.


April if I was closer to you we would be hugging and jumping up and down!
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Dovegirl on 14:12:26, 20/02/18
Great news April    :)
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pleb on 14:57:01, 20/02/18
Yeah good riddance!
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 17:04:55, 20/02/18
That is really good news, but I too wish that it had gone before the Planners and had been kicked out for environmental reasons and that fact that it goes against the Sandford Principle.   Otherwise we may end up fighting another application elsewhere in the Lakes.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 17:42:10, 20/02/18
Or has he been tipped off that it wasn't going his way in the planning committee, and decided to pull the application rather than lose face?  We'll never know - but I am going to celebrate tonight anyway, and it won't be with a turnip.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: ninthace on 17:46:47, 20/02/18
I have just read on facebook that Mike Turner has scrapped the zip wire plans across Thirlmere!!!!!




April,
It is good news and I don't  want to rain on your parade but, as I read it, the plan has not been scrapped - it has been withdrawn. In planning terms, if an application has been withdrawn, it can be resubmitted at any time whereas if it is rejected by the Planning Authority and this rejection goes "on the record"  it cannot be resubmitted for several years (4 or 6 comes to mind but not sure). If it is resubmitted, the previous rejection will be brought to the attention of the PA.


Bit of background.  I made a successful objection to a planning application in my village and it was withdrawn by the developer only to pop up again 18 months later revamped to take account of my original objection.  On the second occasion I made another successful objection with the help of a planning consultant and the application was again withdrawn, this time on the eve of the Planning Committee meeting - which means it can still recur at any time in the future.


Celebrate now - you deserve it; but stay vigilant!  If they can get their ducks in a row vis-a-vis the MOD they'll be back.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 17:59:14, 20/02/18
That is really good news, but I too wish that it had gone before the Planners and had been kicked out for environmental reasons and that fact that it goes against the Sandford Principle.   Otherwise we may end up fighting another application elsewhere in the Lakes.

Great news, and I agree with all LL says above, for the reasons Ninthace mentions.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 18:17:02, 20/02/18
Just been watching the report about the zip wire on our local ITV Border News.  They ended the report by saying that Mike Turner was still passionate about having a zip wire in the Lakes.  So I fully expect another appli5to be submitted within the next year or so. 


I think it's just a matter of where and when.   He's already tried to put one in Glenridding and now Thirlmere - so where next I wonder.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:19:46, 20/02/18
And - thanks April for your passion and drive on this - it made me get off my backside and get involved in the movement to get this plan chucked out.

You are welcome, I do feel very strongly about this, I did wonder if that had come across  :D

April if I was closer to you we would be hugging and jumping up and down!

 :)

 
I think it's just a matter of where and when.   He's already tried to put one in Glenridding and now Thirlmere - so where next I wonder.

Indeed. Now the decision at Honister is even more important. If they get the green light there it will encourage Turnip to submit another zip wire plan somewhere else if not a re-jigged plan for Thirlmere where it won't affect the flight path of the jets. It will be interesting to see the MOD response in eight or so weeks.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: beefy on 21:01:13, 20/02/18
Quote
Thinking further about it, I wish this had been assessed and thrown out by the planners and not withdrawn for the reasons Turnip has stated in the ITV border article. It should have been refused anyway regardless of any MOD objections  
Absolutely,  O0
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:59:35, 21/02/18
I'm just having a bit of a snigger to myself about Mike Turnip's wording in his statement from yesterday

"To date we have received two contradictory communications with the MOD; one supporting the scheme and the other opposing the scheme"

The first letter from the MOD said they had "no safeguarding objections". This is another example of Mike Turner constantly twisting the facts. Having "no objections" and "supporting" are two very different things. I would like to see what information was given to the MOD in that first communication, I wonder if it was accurate? I think everyone was astonished when the MOD replied that they had no objections when it is a well known low flight route for military jets.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 09:21:31, 21/02/18
He'll be back.


We have a large house on the end of our road which I have just discovered now has 3 different planning applications going on, all of which involve knocking down the house and building in the garden. Initially people complained that, among other things, this would require the destruction of some mature trees and a very large pond which is at least 150 years old. So the developer has felled the trees, drained the pond and resubmitted slightly different plans.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 12:24:19, 21/02/18
Oh, I am sure he will be back and we will be ready to fight him again.

This has been posted on Zip Off's facebook page. It is the last bit of 40 pages of the LDNPA Draft Committee report - all 40 pages are available on the LDNPA planning section on the website they say.

"This is the final part of Section 6 - Conclusion.
 "I recognise the acceptability and benefits of the cycle way and
 improvements to parking facilities together with the potential economic
 benefits for the area and the National Park as a whole, including job
 creation and the contribution to the visitor economy particularly during off
 peak times.
 6.10 I also recognise the opportunity to broaden the existing tourism
 experience by bringing a unique facility to the area and to diversify the
 tourism offer of the National Park in a way which accords with the strategic
 direction of Adventure Capital as well as the support which the application
 has from Cumbria Tourism, Cumbria Local Enterprise Partnership and
 others.
 6.11 Despite the weight I have attributed to these benefits, they do not in my
 view outweigh the fowling considerations:
 - the very significant landscape and visual effects identified
 - the substantial harm to the special qualities and Outstanding Universal
 Value of the Lake District
 - the fundamental impacts raised in objections from the Local Highway
 Authority and the Ministry of Defence
 - the volume of objections from individuals and a diverse range of
 organisations representing a broad range of interests at the local, regional
 and national level
 6.12 For all of the reasons above my recommendation is that planning
 permission should be refused
. "

So the planners would have recommended refusal, what would the committee have decided on 7 Mar? It would be nice to know.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 12:43:50, 21/02/18
It is fairly damning, perhaps it may encourage him to look outside the park in future.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 12:52:40, 21/02/18
I'm wondering if Turnip had got wind of the planners recommending refusal and thought withdrawing was the better option? It has been over 4 weeks since the MOD objected, why didn't he withdraw the proposal then? The MOD objection isn't the only reason stated for refusal in the document, thank goodness!

I am dismayed that Ullswater Steamers and The Ravenglass Railway sent letters of support for the zip wires to LDNPA - they are listed on the 40 page document. I will never go on the railway or steamer again, I feel so strongly about all this. I will never donate money to the Lake District Foundation either.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 12:53:40, 21/02/18
Thanks for posting that April - I wonder if he had already been tipped off about this and decided to pull the application. 


And it also shows that the number of representations has had some impact, which is nice to know. I bet he'll watch the Honister application with interest.


I think the full LDNPA would have to have some very strong arguments to go against their own planning committee so I think it very likely that it would have been rejected on 7 March.


Good news for now.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: photonut on 13:01:39, 21/02/18
Wow... that is good news,  at least for the present moment.  I think it is good advice from Ninthace to keep watching for any future planning proposals.

In my local village we have just managed to stop surrounding Green Belt being built up.  We are now in the throws of trying to draft up a local plan which forbids this in the future, just like our neighbouring town of Todmorden has done.  It's a shame that a similar document cannot be drafted for the entire LD and stop crazy ideas like this in future thereby putting an end to the horrible feeling of uncertainty that people have to endure until the planning bigwigs reject the proposal.


I certainly won't ever use Ullswater Steamers or The Ravenglass Railway (again)    :tickedoff:
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 13:26:41, 21/02/18
Plas Y Brenin supported it too!  >:(
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 18:45:21, 21/02/18
The Friends of the Lake District put in a Freedom of Information request to the LDNPA and that is why the draft doc has been published.
Here is a link to the FOTLD website and the link to the draft report.

https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/news/ldnpa-thirlmere-activity-hub-draft-report-statement

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:28:31, 21/02/18
This is a bit of a surprise. This is a quote from the News and Star

"Author and broadcaster Melvyn Bragg said: "I am delighted that those who are devoted to seeing the Lake District prosper for what it is have defeated yet another attempt by marauders. Constant vigilance!""

Melvyn Bragg is Mad-Eye Moody  :o
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 20:05:57, 21/02/18
This is a bit of a surprise. This is a quote from the News and Star

"Author and broadcaster Melvyn Bragg said: "I am delighted that those who are devoted to seeing the Lake District prosper for what it is have defeated yet another attempt by marauders. Constant vigilance!""

Melvyn Bragg is Mad-Eye Moody  :o
If you unpick it a bit he is right. We all want the Lakes to prosper 'for what it is' not to be turned in to something it isn't like a theme park.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 08:25:56, 22/02/18
"Constant vigilance!"

Melvyn Bragg is Mad-Eye Moody  :o

Nobody read Harry Potter on here? My joke seems to have fallen a bit flat  ::)

I think I will give up being a comedian and focus on the fight against the Honister Zip Wire. There is support for it from people who were against Thirlmere - I just don't understand why  :-\
Why ok at Honister but not at Thirlmere? Anyone?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 08:49:23, 22/02/18
Nobody read Harry Potter on here? My joke seems to have fallen a bit flat  ::)
Doh, yes, just a bit slow on the up take.


Perhaps people think that it is inevitable that there will be a zip wire somewhere, with a constant stream of planning applications, so at least if it is there it is less obtrusive than over Thirlmere.
But I'm only guessing, you know what I think.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Brandywell on 09:35:46, 22/02/18
Mike Turner was interviewed on BBC Northwest news last night about his withdrawal of the Thirlmere plan - In response to reporter Dave Guest's question  Would you think of trying this somewhere else ?   " Yes absolutely, I stand by 100% the concept we put together at Thirlmere.  We already operate zip wires and I think the Lake District can accommodate a lot more."
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pleb on 09:58:43, 22/02/18
Mike Turner was interviewed on BBC Northwest news last night about his withdrawal of the Thirlmere plan - In response to reporter Dave Guest's question  Would you think of trying this somewhere else ?   " Yes absolutely, I stand by 100% the concept we put together at Thirlmere.  We already operate zip wires and I think the Lake District can accommodate a lot more."
What's he trying to do, win a popularity contest?
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 10:31:30, 22/02/18
I still haven't made my mind up about the Honister Zip Wire.   I was against it when they applied last time, but I'm not so sure this time around.   I haven't really had time to read through the application yet.

I am thinking about putting in an objection to the United Utilities retrospective application for widening the track up to Fisher Crag.

UU posted this statement on their Twitter page yesterday:

(http://i68.tinypic.com/23lmc9k.jpg)

Zip Off have just posted this on Twitter page.   The tracks look identical to me.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2vxrblf.jpg)

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 13:09:00, 22/02/18
That is pretty much what UU said to me when I queried why they had done it. They would have more chance of me believing them if they had 'improved' any other tracks in the area.


I feel that retrospective planning permission should never be granted and particularly not for an enormous organisation who have their own infrastructure team and legal department.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:25:11, 22/02/18
Perhaps people think that it is inevitable that there will be a zip wire somewhere, with a constant stream of planning applications, so at least if it is there it is less obtrusive than over Thirlmere.
But I'm only guessing, you know what I think.

Some people aren't just thinking along those lines though, they were totally against Thirlmere but very pro Honister. It is more than thinking it is not as bad.

Mike Turner was interviewed on BBC Northwest news last night about his withdrawal of the Thirlmere plan - In response to reporter Dave Guest's question  Would you think of trying this somewhere else ?   " Yes absolutely, I stand by 100% the concept we put together at Thirlmere.  We already operate zip wires and I think the Lake District can accommodate a lot more."

I saw that just before on iplayer. I can't really write what I think about him on here  >:(

What's he trying to do, win a popularity contest?

 ;D He won't be winning any of those, he has to be the most unpopular person in the Lakes!

I still haven't made my mind up about the Honister Zip Wire.   I was against it when they applied last time, but I'm not so sure this time around.   I haven't really had time to read through the application yet.

Honister have worked very hard to make the plan acceptable, all the reasons it was rejected last time seem to have been addressed. It does seem to be a very reasonable application. It will be a tricky one for a lot of people. Is the side of a fell going to be an acceptable place for a zip wire? The plan was rejected the last time (along with the other reasons) because it was from a summit. For me personally, I could never agree it is a place for a zip wire. I love Fleetwith Pike and Black Star and the thought of the shouts and screaming of the people on the wire will spoil it for me and a lot of other people. And you will hear the screams, regardless of what the noise report says. Also it is the precedent that will be set. How many quarries and mines are there all over the Lake District? There are enough for Mike Turner to build quite a few zip wires.

I have to admit, I just don't see the attraction of going on a zip wire, isn't it something that belongs in a children's playground? Sorry if that offends anybody who likes going on them but it is just my opinion about zip wires. Perhaps if I did think of wires as being a grown up activity I might think a little differently.

Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 10:30:13, 27/02/18
The LDNPA Planners have recommended that United Utilities retrospective planning application for the track up to Fisher Crag goes through unconditionally when it meets on 7th March.

Here's a link to the Planners report:   http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/MediaTemp/68447-272229.pdf


Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Ridge on 13:16:42, 27/02/18
Not surprised just disappointed, by both the recommendation and how few people objected.
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:10:48, 28/02/18
I am shocked that the planners have no problem with the mess made around the ruined shepherds bothy  :(
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 16:49:34, 01/03/18
I have just received this email from UU -:


"Dear Mr Sharman
You wrote to us recently regarding your concerns over the Treetop Trek proposals for the Thirlmere Activity Hub. We wanted to let you know that, following publication of the Lake District National Park Authority’s draft report on the plans originally proposed by Treetop Trek, we have now withdrawn our support for the zip wire proposals at Thirlmere. On the basis of the findings in LDNPA’s draft report we will not be facilitating any resubmission of the plans by the applicant.
We will however be continuing our forestry operations as normal in the Thirlmere valley. Our work on the Fisher Crag track is to allow access for forestry work and maintenance in the plantation at the top of the track.   This forms part of our overall plan to remove some of the overgrown conifers in the valley and encourage the growth of native broadleaf woodland which is better for wildlife. We need to do this to continue to manage the estate and maintain a beautiful and biodiverse valley at Thirlmere, for the benefit of visitors as well as water quality and wildlife.
Thank you for finding the time to contact us. If you have any questions following this decision please do not hesitate to get in touch.
Yours sincerely
Gaynor Murphy
Head of Stakeholder Relations"
 
So - they are no longer supporting the plan, suggesting that, as the plan is dependent on UU land and "assistance" (I think - please correct me if I'm wrong), this might be the nail in the coffin for the Thirlmere plan.  Good news I think!!


Paul
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: Strider on 17:24:50, 01/03/18
Yep, sounds like it's dead and buried then.   Wonder where TTT will be popping up next....
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: April on 19:39:07, 01/03/18
I got the same email. Yes thank goodness it looks like Thirlmere is safe. If Honister gets approved I'm sure TTT will be popping up in a quarry or mine, there are quite a few to choose from, I think the ones on NT land will be a no go though!
Title: Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
Post by: pdstsp on 20:01:34, 01/03/18
I know you're right but I think the wording of the draft planning report will have informed everybody that the impact on the existing landscape is important.  UU's reaction is, I think,  quite encouraging.