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Title: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 08:51:02, 23/08/17
http://www.cumbriacrack.com/2017/08/22/reminder-wild-camp-love-lakes-leave-no-trace/ (http://www.cumbriacrack.com/2017/08/22/reminder-wild-camp-love-lakes-leave-no-trace/)

Sadly, this is becoming an all too familiar sight in the Lake District.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: gunwharfman on 09:43:57, 23/08/17
Is it photo true though? It looks very staged to me. The camera never lies, or does it? Where is the owner, would he or she just walk away from a tent, 'just like that'? If the person who owns the tent was just 'taken away' or is being 'distracted' out of the photo area, maybe he or she has not had the the opportunity yet to clear up? At the moment I don't believe what I see or what I read, but I do accept it that given more information it might prove to be true?

Could be looked at another way? If it is true it could just reflect the attitude that exists in every corner of the country (in cities, villages and towns as well) that rubbish is something that you just drop on the ground and walk away!

If this was a story in one of the morning nationals I read I suspect we be told that 'Travellers' did it!
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: gunwharfman on 09:48:07, 23/08/17
Sorry, one last view. I hike in the Lakes, obviously not as much as some people and I can honestly say I have never seen anything like this. I accept that your personal experience may be very different? All I've ever seen is the usual, empty cans, chocolate wrappers, ciggy packs and so on, the stuff I routinely see everywhere I go!
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 09:52:38, 23/08/17
I believe that it's a true photo.   In fact, I've come across things like this many times in the Lakes, and not just in the Valleys.

A few years ago I was sent up to Blackbeck Tarn, between the back of Fleetwith Pike and Haystacks, to check out reports of an abandoned tent.   We not only found the tent, but we also managed to fill two large black bin liners full of rubbish that they had left behind, which included bottles and tins that someone had thrown onto the fire, jacket potatoes wrapped in tinfoil chucked into the bracken.   Also buried underneath a pile of stones, like a cairn, was a metal BBQ base and half a bag of charcoal briquettes.

 
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:08:07, 23/08/17
I run off road in my local area, part of my route is along some narrow tarmacked roads, I've seen loads of rubbish along the route over the past few years. Yesterday, someone had dumped a double bed mattress the night before, on a piece of flat grass on a bend in the road. It wasn't there previously.

I can accept that its possible that we can all 'believe' that a photo can be true, but in this instance is it? How would we know?
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Lakeland Lorry on 10:19:46, 23/08/17
I run off road in my local area, part of my route is along some narrow tarmacked roads, I've seen loads of rubbish along the route over the past few years. Yesterday, someone had dumped a double bed mattress the night before, on a piece of flat grass on a bend in the road. It wasn't there previously.

I can accept that its possible that we can all 'believe' that a photo can be true, but in this instance is it? How would we know?

This isn't anything to do with fly-tipping, this is people abandoning tents and rubbish either on the side of a lake, or on the fells.   

In my role as a Voluntary Ranger for the Lake District National Park I have seen images like this many, many times.   So, even if this photo isn't true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then I've seen things like this with my own eyes.   The situation has become worse over the years, probably because wild camping is becoming more popular.   There are known spots around the Park where we continually discover rubbish and fire-pits which have been left behind by irresponsible campers.   These are the sort of people who give genuine wild campers a bad name.




Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Islandplodder on 11:33:57, 23/08/17

Yeeuch!  You wonder what they are thinking. 
But I suppose thinking is just what they aren't doing.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: beefy on 12:00:00, 23/08/17
Utterly disgusted at the total lack of respect that these people have,  >:(
I feel guilty now for posting trip reports of wild camping,  :-\
The work that voluntary rangers like LL
do is invaluable to the national park, it must be sickening to encounter things like this in such a beautiful place, thanks for clearing it up,
[size=78%]
Quote
[/font][/size]Wild camping, which is camping with a landowner’s permission and not in organised campsite, is all about not being noticed. That means setting up camp away from your car, a grass verge or water and usually high on a hill. Wild campers should take all their litter away, bury their ‘business’, not light fires and only stay a night to avoid disturbing wildlife and to allow the ground to recover.
[/font][/size]
The biggest problem with wild camping is knowing who the land belongs to, to ask for permission, [/size] :-\
I think most people respect the place and look after it, just a few mindless morons spoil t for everyone  :(

Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: buntonn on 14:30:02, 23/08/17
I saw that on Facebook earlier today,  :o >:(   I cannot believe people would leave that mess anywhere let alone such a beautiful place. I bet they would leave that lying in their garden so why anywhere else...


When I was in the lakes in June a friend asked me if I objected to him leaving his banana skin behind as it's biodegradable, damn [censored] right I objected!! I said to him do you realise how long it takes and that the skin can be used for renewable energy. He said the birds would eat it, I said how would you feel if someone left one on your driveway at home, now take off the hill what you bring on. Nothing further was said and he put his banana skin in his bag  O0
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: gunwharfman on 16:30:46, 23/08/17
Well Mr Buntonn, you obviously don't know the gardens that I know! Old cars, nappies, little black bags of dog poo, old TV's, broken coffee tables, the list could go on and on! I hate litter, its so quickly ruins an area, and I'm not just writing about the middle classes. As to what to do about it? Dunno! Also, have you seen the state of some farmyards, I just don't know how they get away with it!

If you want to see  'hidden' litter on a hike, just look in the gaps in dry stone walls near to gates and stiles. Natural resting places for some hikers, have a Kit Kat, where shall I put the wrapping, Oh yes, stuff it into a hole in the wall. It evidently for wipes as well, often nearby stones are used to cover other things.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 10:48:29, 24/08/17
Dare i say it, but the people who caused this mess, are not true walkers.
I would hazard a guess, that the majority of litter strewn up and down the slopes of Snowdon, are left by the casual visitor, who will probably be doing it for the first time, and also the last.

Those of us who regularly head into the mountains, cannot comprehend why others choose to drop litter, especially plastic bottles, its so easy to take them home, and to highlight this fact, how much litter does one see in the Carneddau.


Its rare to see any litter, however small, in that area of Northern Snowdonia, simply because it takes a committed walker several hours to venture anywhere near their summits, its no place for a casual novice looking for somewhere to while away the hours.


Snowdon on the other hand, has been voted the busiest mountain in the entire Uk, bringing with it, countless thousands of people who would never venture near a mountain, but because its the highest thing south of Scotland, its a magnet.


Its something that has to be done, to boast to your friends at work, and for most of them, its a once in a lifetime adventure, hence the total disregard for their environment.


They see nothing wrong with throwing litter from their car window, or dropping a fag end in the street, so why should Snowdonia be different.


With the multitude, come the members of the public, who have no regard for their environment ,at home and in the hills., they are the ones causing the litter problem.

True wild campers would never leave their overnight stay, in such a mess, but i do agree, the photograph looks almost staged, to highlight the problems of those who despoil our environment.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: tonyk on 13:42:07, 25/08/17
 This mess has not been caused by wild campers.My money would be on East European alcoholics/drug addicts who are too tight to pay for proper accommadation or local yobs out for a **** up.Where I live we have had a quite a few problems with several East European undesirables causing a similar mess on wildlife parks.Before anyone calls me a racist I will point out that I am part East European myself but find the attitude of those who arrived after 2004 to be a disgrace.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: gunwharfman on 17:05:07, 25/08/17
Sorry, but I have no idea what a 'true walker' is?

Mr. Tonyk, I presume you wrote 'This mess has not (NOT?) been caused by wild campers', as an amusing tease?

'Too tight to pay for proper accommodation', I'm like that, I pay for sites and I wild camp, but if I can get a free night I'm happy, so I take the view you are also writing about people me as well, and I originate from Kent! It seems to me to be a bit negative to look at a photo and come to the conclusion it might be East European alcoholics/drug addicts? Why can't it be caused by a good old fashioned hedgepoker like me? 'Undesirables' that's an interesting word, what word was used before that insult started to be used, was it 'lowlife' or was it 'underclass', I just can't remember? And just because you are part East European yourself cannot exclude you from possibly being a racist. Even I, as a person from a Romany background can't use my background to suggest that I can't be racist and in any case how would we define a racist anyway?

I cannot see how you can come to your conclusions based on one photo, although to be fair I too came to the conclusion that the the photo might (only might!) have been specially set up by a local, a journalist or by someone else, a Tory perhaps! :)

Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 20:57:02, 25/08/17
A true walker, is someone who is as one with their environment, respects nature, in all its wonderful aspects, and would rather walk a significant distance in search of a litter bin, than discard it, hoping nobody will find it.


In all my many years as a walker, both in the Brecon Beacons and here in Snowdonia, i have never dropped any litter, however small, and have never unknowingly caused any wanton damage to a farmer or land owners property.
On more than one occasion i have upset park wardens and other members of the public , by collecting litter without the necessary gloves or right clothing, that's the politically correct mumbo jumbo nonsense, that's not me, if there's a manageable amount of litter waiting to be picked up, i will endeavour to clear it, if i have a bag, or similar item at my disposal.

I can remember one family picnicking at Crummock water some years ago, that i really had a go at, for dropping their litter, (both father and younger child), and the father feeling embarrassed, became physical and tried to have a go at me, he knew he was in the wrong, but did not like me drawing his attention to it.

Its either my age, or the way i have been brought up, the dropping of any litter, is totally alien to me, and i am not afraid to voice my opinion when i see others deliberately disguarding their litter.

The litter problem along the llanberis path up Snowdon, is totally unnecessary, and a affront on nature, and saddens me, what can we do, when mountain path traffic is becoming a serious issue.


A true walker in my opinion, is someone who only leaves their footprints, and fond memories behind them.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: tonyk on 10:37:46, 26/08/17
Sorry, but I have no idea what a 'true walker' is?

Mr. Tonyk, I presume you wrote 'This mess has not (NOT?) been caused by wild campers', as an amusing tease?

'Too tight to pay for proper accommodation', I'm like that, I pay for sites and I wild camp, but if I can get a free night I'm happy, so I take the view you are also writing about people me as well, and I originate from Kent! It seems to me to be a bit negative to look at a photo and come to the conclusion it might be East European alcoholics/drug addicts? Why can't it be caused by a good old fashioned hedgepoker like me? 'Undesirables' that's an interesting word, what word was used before that insult started to be used, was it 'lowlife' or was it 'underclass', I just can't remember? And just because you are part East European yourself cannot exclude you from possibly being a racist. Even I, as a person from a Romany background can't use my background to suggest that I can't be racist and in any case how would we define a racist anyway?

I cannot see how you can come to your conclusions based on one photo, although to be fair I too came to the conclusion that the the photo might (only might!) have been specially set up by a local, a journalist or by someone else, a Tory perhaps! :)

 There is enough evidence to back up what I am saying.This problem is prolific in the Peterborough area where Poles and other East Europeans have set up camp on the banks of the Nene and eaten the local wildlife.To be honest I don't really have a problem when it comes to being racist in respect of East Europeans,especially Poles,as they tend to be some of the biggest racists going.Check out their response to welcoming Syrian "refugees".And the Hungarians are hardly a model for EU liberal values.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/7506182/Immigrants-blamed-for-pillaging-fish-and-swans-from-river.html

 Where I live in Leicester we have also had problems with Poles sleeping rough on local wildlife parks and leaving an appalling mess when they leave.Note that I also said "local yobs".Sadly we have imported other nations dross into this country courtesy of Blair opening the borders to all and sundry.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: ninthace on 10:51:13, 26/08/17
Sadly we have imported other nations dross into this country courtesy of Blair opening the borders to all and sundry.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union)


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty)


The free movement of workers within the EU started under the Treaty of Rome and was clarified to include residence under the Treaty of Maastricht so that would be your man Heath and Baroness Thatcher that you should rant at.


Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Mel on 11:21:09, 26/08/17
Dare i say it, but the people who caused this mess, are not true walkers.


Don't faint but, I agree.


Quote taken from the original article LakelandLorry provided:
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]"[/size]They say the practice of abandoning camping gear at music festivals is spreading to wild camping.[/size] [/size][size=78%]"[/size]


With that in mind, it sounds more like "party animals" recreating their own private festival for a night or two to get their money's worth out of their camping gear and then simply abandon it because they've all got monstrous hangovers the next day and can't face packing up and clearing up....it's just easier to leave it there "for someone else".


I'd be inclined to think that people living off the land (regardless of race, religion or political belief) ...whilst they may leave litter, etc. they would take their tents and such like, simply because it is their "home" and they'd need it for the next spot they decide to stop at.



Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: fernman on 12:33:34, 26/08/17
I'd be inclined to think that people living off the land (regardless of race, religion or political belief) ...whilst they may leave litter, etc. they would take their tents and such like, simply because it is their "home" and they'd need it for the next spot they decide to stop at.

Not always the case, Mel. From time to time I have come across long-abandoned tents, always of the really cheap sort, hidden away in bits of woodland, where it is quite evident that someone has been living there for a period of time.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Alan Kilroy on 13:24:53, 26/08/17
Mentioned on BBC News just now..........wild camping / Lake District..............................including the above picture.  ???
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: tonyk on 19:36:00, 26/08/17

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union)


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty)


The free movement of workers within the EU started under the Treaty of Rome and was clarified to include residence under the Treaty of Maastricht so that would be your man Heath and Baroness Thatcher that you should rant at.

 I am fully aware of that.A lot of East Europeans were working in the UK in the nineties.In 1947 several thousand former members of the 14th Waffen SS Division (Ukranian) were allowed to settle in the UK,working mainly in the farming and mining industries.This was on an as-needed basis,rather than a free for all that results in the wages and living standards of the indigenous working class population being driven down.

 BTW,just because my views might be a bit distastful to those of a sensitive dispostion it dosen't mean I am a Tory voter or supporter.I was a life long Labour voter until Blair decided to open the flood gates in 2004 (he did have a choice in the matter and could have deferred free movement for several years)I would say my views have more in common with Old Labour voters who feel they have been deserted rather than right wing bigots in the Tory party.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Taz on 17:11:22, 27/08/17
I think you need to keep politics out of it.
In my experience, it is people doing it, no matter what race, nationality, background, gender, age, a percentage of all those people think its okay to drop litter or to leave stuff behind.
People throw poo bags in hedges, dump their car rubbish in lay-by's, drop fag ends and chewing gum in the street, leave empty bottles on mountain paths etc, they are not all East European, and no I am not 'of a sentimental disposition'. The UK might have been tidier years ago before we created a throw-away society.


Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: willow229 on 13:19:25, 29/08/17
This mess has not been caused by wild campers.My money would be on East European alcoholics/drug addicts who are too tight to pay for proper accommadation or local yobs out for a **** up.Where I live we have had a quite a few problems with several East European undesirables causing a similar mess on wildlife parks.Before anyone calls me a racist I will point out that I am part East European myself but find the attitude of those who arrived after 2004 to be a disgrace.


I'm not racist but..... ::)
You only need to drive around the country to see how so many people treat this country like a tip with no respect for their environment. I live near a McDonalds and it's a common occurrence that people park up on my road, eat their burger and chips and then just hurl then rubbish out the window. I've had a go at several people doing this over the years and they've always spoken with local accents.
Whether the picture is staged or not, you can but camping eqiupment dirt cheap form Aldi etc. Maybe they all chipped £20 quid each to buy the tent and chairs and just left them. If you've ever been to Glastonbury you'll know how many people go home and leave their cheap tents behind without a second thought.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Penygadair on 14:13:10, 29/08/17
I'll confess to enjoying an occasional quarter pounder but McDonalds litter is a nationwide problem, I get their litter chucked out of car windows but the nearest branch is more than 35 miles away.
Worst I've had was a bag thrown from the passenger window of a passing car which landed on my driveway. Disposable nappies -just like Greggs sandwiches - freshly filled.  >:(  And people come to Wales to enjoy the beautiful countryside.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: NeilC on 17:13:29, 08/09/17
I agree they're not "true walkers" or backpackers. There are scumbags who turn up and do this stuff but they're usually not proper outdoorspeople.


I've seen them on the Ridgeway - campfire and a tarp. Nothing wrong with that. But the next day the tarp is left, pile of beer cans, litter and so on. Disgusting. But they've driven close by and walked about 10 mins. Likewise you get groups of youths who pretend to their parents that they're going camping but actually just turn up and get wasted on booze and drugs and don't give a **** about how they leave things.


When I lived in London, near a largish, quite nice park. In the summer you'd get a group of maybe 10-20 people go for a picnic - bags and boxes of food, chairs etc, get drunk and lairy and let their dogs bother other people. And at the end of it, literally just walk away - paper plates, half eaten sarnies, cups, bottles, bags and even chairs. It would blow about the park for a month after. Amazing.


99% of people who are there to enjoy the scenery, carry their kit in and out - "true" backpackers if you will - they're not doing this stuff. I've seen walkers chase a windblown sweet wrapper for hundreds of yards just to avoid littering.
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: Jays on 17:50:55, 05/01/18
Great reply’s on this thread.
So what do we do about it?
Well We have stated to pick it up!
Even gone as far as picking up dog poo, with a bag!
Anyone can voluntarily pick up litter, one or two pieces a day would be a start! O0
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: tenmilesplus on 18:36:00, 05/01/18
We don't go to the Lake District or Peak District very often but the litter and 'disposable bar-b-qs' left by thoughtless selfish numbheads is something we have come across more often in the Lake District.. We always pick up what we see in the way of sweet wrappers but the amount of discarded tissues is what we find most disgusting.. Why would anyone want to go around picking up snotty wragg ? I don't understand why people don't take their snotty wragg home... ??

  Fact.. With people comes litter, then more litter, then destructive behaviour.. Just consider the 'Zip Wire' as vandalism..

 What can be done ?? Nothing.. Dumbass does what dumbass does.. How about pricing these idiots out of the Countryside by making staying in these beauty spots extortionate ? Hang on, that is already happening.. If something is cheap there are a portion of the population that will take it for granted, if something is made expensive there will be a portion that will expect to be pampered or have the Fells covered in Sherpa Tensing types and a helicopter to bring the tea.. ( just look at the figures for Mountain rescue call outs ).. People = litter end of... The 'Problem' is attitude.. Starts with the parents, ends with the parents... Me and some mates lived near some woods when we were growing up, we used to go and 'enjoy' them but we never left piles of crap around because we didn't have any money to buy the crap with.. Maybe the 'availability' is the problem ? After all pollution isn't just an issue in Cumbria, pollution is a Global issue and cheap plastics seem to be the most common culprit.. Sooner or later Plastic will become very expensive and there will be fewer abandoned tents and folding seats in our Countryside..
Title: Re: How Not to Wild Camp
Post by: scottk on 15:15:21, 22/02/18
This kind of behaviour is what led to the camping ban round Loch Lomond. Would be a shame if the same thing happens in the lakes. No easy answer without a lot more ragulations and people to enforce it but I feel that isn't a solution.