Author Topic: New Laws come into force  (Read 569 times)

tonyk

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New Laws come into force
« on: 08:57:54, 01/03/17 »
 A 200 fine and six points for using a phone whilst driving and a 500 fine and a criminal record for camping in an undesignated area at Loch Lomond.The law is often said to be an ass but in this case it has been created by an ass-hole.

fernman

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #1 on: 09:30:58, 01/03/17 »
Like many new laws, they are largely unenforcable.
I can walk around my local streets any time day or night and see car and van drivers on their phones, because there are no police to deter them. The latter are just something you see whizzing around in a Battenberg car on rare occasions.
Similarly, how is no wild camping at Loch Lomond going to be enforced? Are they going to send out patrols?  Go up in a helicopter or spotter plane? I imagine any sensible wild camper who follows the "arrive late, leave early" adage and tucks themself away in an unobvious place is going to have a far greater chance of getting away with it than the phone users.
Just to make my position clear, I do not condone using phones while driving, but I am against the attack on the campers' liberties. Obviously the new law was brought in to stop the rowdy groups who light fires, damage trees etc and leave litter, but to apply a blanket ban that threatens everyone with a criminal record is wrong. It could also be the thin end of the wedge, with other areas keeping a close eye on the outcome, and getting the same law introduced for themselves.
« Last Edit: 09:35:33, 01/03/17 by fernman »

Percy

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #2 on: 09:51:34, 01/03/17 »
Re: mobiles in cars. It's always been the case that there are driving laws that are unenforceable, it will always be the case until there are as many policeman watching the roads as there are cars on it. It was always the case with speeding until the advent of the speed camera.


It is more about sending a message to drivers about what is and what isn't acceptable. There was never any need to make a law about mobile phones in cars because we already had a law about driving without due care and attention. Using a mobile phone is obviously driving without due care and attention so making a law explicitly prohibiting phone use is all about the message. As that message has clearly failed to get through they have increased the penalties to say it again, a bit louder this time.

gunwharfman

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #3 on: 11:29:32, 01/03/17 »
I believe the phone law is necessary, so many idiots out there! As for the Loch Lomond thing. I'm sure litter is a problem, it is everywhere! But for the Loch Lomond tourist people, they have just had a morning on all channels of free publicity! The BBC lady Ms. Minchin was dribbling with "its so beautiful", "wonderful views" etc. I wonder how many people looking at their TV this morning said, "now that's an idea, why don't we visit Loch Lomond". I bet they did!
 
I sometimes work on the idea that even items like 'new' laws are just another example of how innovative capitalists can create new wealth, jobs and so on. Added together with other 'laws' it must be bonanza time for the lawyer industry and for all of the other industries like printer firms, marketing people and so on that will benefit as well. Just think of the wealth that's going to be created because of Brexit. I wish I was a lawyer!

Surely the solution is to ensure that a phone will not work inside a car, or is this too simple? Would it make less money for some people, would the sales of phones go down as a result or less calls will be made? Perhaps the government doesn't want to upset the car industry?

I remember the seatbelt campaign, new companies, jobs and wealth created by the law must have benifited so many people and of course when you add to it the 'child' industry of car seats and so on, childrens seats, etc, etc.

April

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #4 on: 12:35:04, 01/03/17 »
The mobile phone law may be hard to enforce but one that is necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/31/lorry-driver-distracted-phone-jailed-10-years-crash-deaths-tomasz-kroker

A driver where I work lost his job because he was caught using his mobile phone while he was driving his truck. A member of the public spotted him and called up our company to report him. The man referenced the deaths of the 4 people who died in the article above when he called. There is no excuse using a phone when you are driving.

It is sad about the no camping at Loch Lomond and the surrounding areas. As Fernman says it will be hard to enforce if you are hidden from sight away from the roads and pitch late, leave early.
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

fernman

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #5 on: 13:32:35, 01/03/17 »
That scary A82 is enough to deter me from ever going to Loch Lomond again, not the possibility of a criminal record  ;D

tonyk

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #6 on: 15:46:47, 01/03/17 »
 The point I was getting at was the difference between the penalties.The increased fine for driving whilst using a mobile phone is a complete joke,an increase in a slap on the wrist and it is going to deter very few people.The fine for camping near Loch Lommond is also a joke,albeit a bit of a sick one,in that a person could end up with a criminal record for one night's unauthorised wild camp.If they fail to pay the 500 fine plus costs and "victim " surcharge they will end up in prison.

 Driving whilst using a mobile phone is lethal and the penalty should be very high.A minimum of a 1000 fine plus a retest would be more appropriate and might just deter a few people.

 I can't really see how they can enforce the camping ban as  park wardens don't have the power of arrest and will have diffculty getting correct indentification of alleged offenders.

route2rock

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #7 on: 15:54:37, 01/03/17 »
Regarding camping at Loch lomond/trossachs, it is a bylaw change, which means it is unlikely to end in a  criminal record.

At least it means that the wardens have powers to tackle the rubbish dumpers etc.

 I would hope that their first aim would be advising people rather than jumping straight to enforcement though.

That said it is sad that it's needed :(
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sparnel

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #8 on: 17:44:35, 01/03/17 »
The camping ban on the eastern shore of Loch Lomond is aimed at the day trippers who arrive with the 9.99 tent from Go Outdoors, set up the Bar B Q, open the lager and leave everything scattered around when they leave................wild campers on the WHW only need to walk approx 10 metres away from the path/beach area and they will find numerous places to pitch for the night where no one would ever find them.............the park rangers know a wild camper when they see one................like wise the know the litter louts!
Don't get the knickers in a twist over this....................Loch Lomond National Park is a big place!


April

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #9 on: 18:19:53, 01/03/17 »
The point I was getting at was the difference between the penalties.The increased fine for driving whilst using a mobile phone is a complete joke,an increase in a slap on the wrist and it is going to deter very few people.

Sadly you are right, the people who still use their phones at the wheel probably won't be deterred by this. They have to be caught first.

That scary A82 is enough to deter me from ever going to Loch Lomond again, not the possibility of a criminal record  ;D

 ;D

Don't get the knickers in a twist over this....................Loch Lomond National Park is a big place!

 :)

I do hope no "proper" wild campers get prosecuted if they are spotted.
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

bricam2096

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Re: New Laws come into force
« Reply #10 on: 19:48:43, 01/03/17 »
I'd like to assume that Park rangers would apply a common sense attitude to this. It's not hard to tell the difference between the people who park up and abuse the countryside and wild campers, most of whom respect the "leave no trace" policy.
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