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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: BuzyG on 12:47:02, 05/10/20

Title: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 12:47:02, 05/10/20
Well I thought modern kit could keep even the worst of British weather out until yesterday.  4+ hours on the high moor in solid driving rain and I was soaked though to the skin after around 3 hours.  I walked all day Saturday on marshy ground and had bone dry feet. Yesterday, Sunday, I finished with boots full of water simply because it was running down my legs and filling them.  As the afternoon went on my only stops were to put on another layer, then another, as I gradually got colder.  A sobering thought occurred to me as I prepared to descend Yes tor, straight into the gale. If I was injured I had no more layers in my bag, other than my emergency space sac and I was already quite cold.  I finished up with my base layer a woolly fleece, a synthetic fleece with hood, my buff, my winter beanie and finally my ME Gore-Tex jacket over that lot and I was still struggling to maintain my body heat. For comparison I know I generate a lot of heat out walking and often walk in just my base layer even in mid winter. It was the wet that did the damage. Another good lesson on what the UK moors can throw at any of us.   :)
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:15:36, 05/10/20
I can mirror your experience when I walked from Kirk Yetholm to Byrness on the Pennine Way in a very windy and a very wet day a few years ago. I didn't get any respite from the weather at all, by the time I arrived at the hostel I was so very cold and so wet as well.

Although I have a down jacket and I wore it that day (it was sodden) and a down quilt, (safely in its waterproof bag) from then on I only bought synthetic clothing. Although I have 'waterproof' clothing I will never trust it entirely so I always carry a cheap poncho with me as well, just as an emergency throwover to help to keep my waterproof coat waterproof should I need it.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: sussamb on 13:47:49, 05/10/20
I had a similar experience walking Byrness to KY on my first PW, rain and strong wind directly in my face along the whole way until I dropped onto the low level route towards the end to get respite from the wind. I changed into dry clothing at the first hut but was wet and slightly hypothermic at the second, so much so I seriously considered staying there overnight, and on my next trip I planned to take 2 days, and will do so on subsequent ones.


Problem with driving rain is that it gets forced down your neck area and even through waterproof material which is only waterproof up to a certain pressure.  The good news is that it's not the wet that causes the problem but the cold, hence the importance of good layers.


Good to hear you got off safely BuzyG  O0
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: ninthace on 14:05:45, 05/10/20
This morning was one of those walks where the water gets everywhere - wind driven fine drizzle.  It managed to get in through the leg zips of my over-trousers despite the flap over the zips and it worked its way up the sleeves of my jacket too.  Condensation did the rest!
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: GnP on 14:07:30, 05/10/20
I had a lesson taught to me on top of Bal Mawr near Llanthony priory .
I put too much trust in the forecast at the time. Sun was out until half way along the ridge then the heavens opened with driving stinging rain and myself with no over trousers or rain coat . The rain lasted an hour .

 I was very fortunate in that there was another pathway on the leeward side of the ridge , so dropped down to it and wrapped a 6x6 tarp , which I use for sitting on at times , over my head and shoulders .

Trouble with me , even now when I am in the house all snug , I sometimes forget the better safe than sorry rule..
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: richardh1905 on 14:40:20, 05/10/20
One tactic that I have learned over the years is to ascend into the wind, so that if I have to turn tail, I have the wind at my back.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: ninthace on 15:42:58, 05/10/20
One tactic that I have learned over the years is to ascend into the wind, so that if I have to turn tail, I have the wind at my back.
  Our walk today had a choice - downhill into the wind or vice-versa.  I decided if I was going more slowly, I wanted the wind and the rain behind me.  We live on the top of the hill so avoiding it wasn't an option.  Looking out of the window now, the trees at the end of the garden keep disappearing, I am not sure if it is mizzle or if we are in the clouds.  Either way, I ain't going out there again today!
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 16:07:50, 05/10/20
That is interesting Richard.  I was expecting a storm yesterday and planned the admittedly pretty spontaneous route in my head, based on having the wind pushing me up Branscombe loaf and then up via Black tor to Fordsland ledge and High Willhays.  Of course after the last climb I put on the warmest layer, I had in my sack a synthetic fleece. Problem was there was no place I could find on High Willhays to shelter properly. So it got damp just putting it on.  From there it was 3miles into the gale  and driving rain.


One side note.  The visibility was very poor above 400m and the only viable Nav possible in such wet and windy conditions, as someone who's  only GPS is on their mobile, not a weatherproof unit, was my compass and laminated paper map of the area.  Not sure I would deliberately set out into such conditions so equipped, had I not detailed local knowledge of the area to complement the paper map view.  It's still a learning curve.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: pauldawes on 16:41:50, 05/10/20
I’ve been doing a lot of relatively easy 6 milers this year...but was thinking of doing something just a bit harder this week...a route from Chinley to Edale, roughly 8 miles.


You took a lot more layers than I would have done before reading this thread..so glad I did.


What would you do differently if you were doing a similar walk tomorrow?
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 19:06:52, 05/10/20
That is a very valid question.  There is no simple answer though.


So many small things make up a walk in challenging conditions.  I choose the route and was aware of the conditions before I left the house.  Once on the ground I was just slightly on the back foot all day wrt my core temp. As an ex winter surfer it's something I understand, so it was never going to go badly wrong unless I became incapacitated. So the logical answer is layer up earlier.  There are only so many places you can find shelter in such conditions though and experience tells me that an extra layer too early leads to sweating and a similar out come.  That leaves route selection based on the conditions. Richards post suggest a reverse of my current thinking on wet day. Worth considering next time. 


Ultimately though carry enough gear to deal with the likely conditions. I think I actually did that. Conditions were just subtly different from other wet windy walks in similar places I have recent experience of and nature outwitted my modern kit and feeble attempts to stay dry.


Move things along in a controlled way when it comes to pushing yourself against the elements and the mountains. Every once in a while they will catch you out.  Sounds like you are trying to do that. Enjoy the journey and keep learning.


Edit:  Thinking some more. I should have put my last layer on at Black a tor, where I sheltered briefly to take a bearing and consider the best route up. I also choose to push on past Fordsland ledge without sheltering. That way I would have been warm by the summit at High Willhays,  where as it was, there was no place to shelter property and layer up on the day.  So basically my summit homing instinct won over stopping and layering up early enough.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: pauldawes on 20:20:05, 05/10/20
I’ve never tested the theory (I tend to avoid going out in really cold conditions)...but guess something like a Paramo Torres Gilet where you put it on over your waterproof layer...rather than a fleece where you have to take off waterproof layer..maybe getting drenched and cold while doing that.....might be a better solution for walks where you need some extra warm for some sections.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: gunwharfman on 21:13:23, 05/10/20
I accept that in certain rain conditions I will get wet sooner than at other times, it tends to depend on what type of rain, if it's windy and raining at the same time, and in what direction the rain is coming at me. I believe that I am most likely to get wet if the rain is blowing into my face. It's also my experience that eventually rain will seep in around my hood or via my neck area anyway.

When experiencing 'into my face' rain hood design can make a big difference, my Paramo Alta 2 was reasonable, (I've don't use it any more) my £20 cheapo waterproof is better and my Vaude poncho hood is best of all. But none are perfect thats for sure.



Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 21:36:16, 05/10/20

I’ve never tested the theory (I tend to avoid going out in really cold conditions)...but guess something like a Paramo Torres Gilet where you put it on over your waterproof layer...rather than a fleece where you have to take off waterproof layer..maybe getting drenched and cold while doing that.....might be a better solution for walks where you need some extra warm for some sections.


Extra gear is always an option.  My first proper foray, after returning to walking, was Ben Nevis via CMD arête on a cold damp day in spring 2016.  I took a 65 ltr rucksack I bought in 1982 full to bursting with clothing food and drink. Ice axe the works.  I didn't use much of it and it probably added hours to the day carrying it all.  But the day was a safe resounding success and I was as chuffed and knackered as I had been in 54 years that evening.


I see fell runners a fair way into Dartmoor on occasions carrying very little kit. Never heard of one in trouble, but I bet a few have been caught out and rejigged there risk  balance in favour of another layer.


Somewhere between the two is the perfect kit list for a typical day walk in the UK.


For now more kit might slow you down a little. But you really can't go far wrong carrying one layer more than you need.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: archaeoroutes on 07:02:54, 06/10/20
I’ve never tested the theory (I tend to avoid going out in really cold conditions)...but guess something like a Paramo Torres Gilet where you put it on over your waterproof layer...rather than a fleece where you have to take off waterproof layer..maybe getting drenched and cold while doing that.....might be a better solution for walks where you need some extra warm for some sections.
I can confirm that this is a very good option.
1. It helps protect lower layers from being exposed to the rain on changing.
2. It encourages earlier addition of the extra layer as it is so quick and easy.
3. If your main outer layer is also Paramo it will suck away some of the water in it. Many's the time I've taken my Torres off after a cold hard shower to find my Velez totally dried out.

Which reminds me, the conditions described are where Paramo excels. Goretex keeps you dry up to a point but then you stay cold and wet. Paramo let's the water in earlier, but kicks it back out again quickly.
Then, of course, there's Buffalo which stays warm whatever.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:37:00, 06/10/20
....
Then, of course, there's Buffalo which stays warm whatever.


I'm quite a fan of fibre pile - I use a buffalo sleeping bag outer outwith winter, and my 'go to' winter mid layer is a heavy fleece/fibre pile jacket. In full winter conditions (spindrift etc), I'll be wearing fibre pile salopettes too.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: Islandplodder on 10:50:44, 06/10/20
Another vote for the Paramo gilet.  It is my favourite piece of kit, I rarely go out without it, especially in winter.  It is perfect for lunch stops, when I find I often get chilled, and it works when it's wet.   I have had it for years, but it still seems good as new.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: windyrigg on 11:25:03, 06/10/20
Buffalo kit is excellent. I'm still using a 4 season outer sleeping bag which I bought in the early 80's for a weeks dole money! I lived in Sheffield near the factory and had arranged to collect it. When I turned up there was a pile of Army green bags that would fill a wagon and 2 Paratroopers with rattle cans painting 3P (thats 3rd Para) in white through a stencil on the sac of every bag. They were all to be away to the Falklands the next day (would that be 1982?).  The chap from Buffalo picked me one out of the pile and said 'sorry, they're all green this week'!
I once slid out of a tent that wasn't pitched flat and awoke to find the bottom part of the bag soaking wet with the rain (I only tend to zip the vertical zip and hadn't done the horizontal one across the bottom). In the middle of the night I just moved back into the tent (& zipped up) and went back to sleep trying to curl up at the top end of the bag. When I awoke I was warm and stretched out in a now dry bag, the outer of which was covered in tiny little droplets of water, almost like condensation. I think the material actually pumps the water out.
The bag has had loads of use in all sorts of situations and still functions like new, they're the same stuff as the hoodies and tops that are still in production.   
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 13:49:52, 06/10/20
I will second Buffalo equipment, but it takes quite a bit of courage to slip on a Pertex 6 Mountain shirt, in really cold conditions, with just your bare skin below, but its an idea that works incredibly well.

Also, the equipment is not quite the bargain price it used to be.

My Super 6 shirt cost me £64 back in 1995, but it now retails close to £150, which is quite a markup, but it still represents decent value, as it will last many years, and its a bit of kit that really works, in the right conditions.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: Davidedgarjones on 17:13:47, 06/10/20
If going over above 500 metres high it's worth checking the Mountain Weather Information Service forecast.
Dave
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 19:34:31, 06/10/20
If going over above 500 metres high it's worth checking the Mountain Weather Information Service forecast.
Dave


Depends where you are going walking.  So many and varied weather forecast sites.  Fortunately for us folk in the far SW of UK, the Met office publish a weather forecast for the summit of each of the major/popular tors on Dartmoor. So just now top of Yes tor wind speed is gusting 33mph rising to 41 by 9pm whilst in Okehampton (at the foot of yes tor) wind speed is currently gusting 32mph dropping off to 26 by 9pm  Maybe one for it's own thread.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:36:14, 07/10/20
MWIS v Met Office - I use both here in the Lakes.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: gunwharfman on 15:42:30, 07/10/20
I just look at the sky out of our upstairs bedroom, seems to work most days. I think it's because we can look at a big-sky view right out to sea.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: Jac on 16:59:40, 07/10/20
Two wet-through walks on the coast over last weekend; now nursing what I am convincing myself is a cold :-\
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 17:20:39, 07/10/20
Two wet-through walks on the coast over last weekend; now nursing what I am convincing myself is a cold :-\

You have my sympathy and hopefully a nice runny nose too. ;D  Odd that that should be a good sign.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: ninthace on 18:43:43, 07/10/20
Two wet-through walks on the coast over last weekend; now nursing what I am convincing myself is a cold :-\
Did you sanitise your hands before typing that?  Can't be too careful with all those students wandering around down your way.  I had a wet walk on Monday and I have just started sneezing too!  If I get a cold I shall blame you  >:(
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 20:58:05, 07/10/20
Did you sanitise your hands before typing that?  Can't be too careful with all those students wandering around down your way.  I had a wet walk on Monday and I have just started sneezing too!  If I get a cold I shall blame you  >:(
I thought that colds were caused by viruses (many of them coronavirus strains) rather than walking in the rain.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: ninthace on 21:17:30, 07/10/20
I thought that colds were caused by viruses (many of them coronavirus strains) rather than walking in the rain.
Have never heard of a computer virus?  Viscious things - can lay you low as soon as look at you.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: NeilC on 09:29:55, 09/10/20
I have a bothy bag which offers real respite from bad conditions in places with no shelter, although you do need to get out of it eventually.


Had a miserable time in the Brecon Beacons the other January - rained for two days straight with no pause. Soaked and freezing, especially the hands.


We stopped up in the bothy bag for a whilst for some food and rum and despite being buoyed by this, after another hour in the lashing rain, we decided to go back to town and give it up. We were supposed to be wild-camping but the thought of pitching in that rain and almost certain waking to it as well....sometimes it's just not fun.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: thomasdevon on 17:42:29, 12/10/20
One tactic that I have learned over the years is to ascend into the wind, so that if I have to turn tail, I have the wind at my back.




That's one reason why I plan my Dartmoor walks almost from Belstone. Its NE of the moor so the return leg is usually with the prevailing wind.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: thomasdevon on 17:45:02, 12/10/20
A little trick I discovered by accident is to wear a ski mask when walking into the rain and suchlike. Its amazing how even a thin layer takes the pain out of ploughing into driving rain.



Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: gunwharfman on 16:58:52, 13/10/20
The way I protect my eyes is to use a £2.99 pair of wrap-around clear sunglasses from Decathlon. They are very good but I have to be careful because they can scratch easily if they fall onto the tarmac. I wear them when I run off-road as well, very useful all-rounder.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: forgotmyoldpassword on 18:05:44, 13/10/20
Had a similar experience a few days ago, air temp of 1-3C on an exposed ridge in the early hours with highs in the valley forecast for 7C that day with light rain.  The colder temps and wind blown heavy rain developed into mixed wet rain/flurries coming in at 20-25mph made quite the difference and gave a wind chill of -5C, with the rain I was being chilled fast.  I'm sure most of us can recognise that decision point: when you consider your route, figure out whether you need to adjust plans as your hands are hurting from the cold or whether you'd rather head back.  In some ways I find these conditions more challenging than when you have snow and ice as you're losing temperature far faster due to rain, making the need to make good decisions more immediate.


In my case it was because I was still in my light three season kit and knew the only solution to not having enough kit with me to keep warm was either to turn back or push harder and generate that heat myself whilst relying on the improving forecast/the day warming up to 'kick in' and help warm me up throughout the day.


After that though, decided it's time to throw two sets of gloves back in my pack, pull out the warm fleece and make sure I consider taking the flask on the more brisk days, something I never bother with most of the time.


Problem with Buffalo kit in the UK is it's £160 for 1 layer you can't modulate, and without a hood it's useless (imo) which they charge you £30 for.  It's good equipment but it thrives in cold and stable weather systems where you can wear one layer all day and get on with it.  The trousers/salos are worth it though.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: ninthace on 18:50:34, 13/10/20
A little trick I discovered by accident is to wear a ski mask when walking into the rain and suchlike. Its amazing how even a thin layer takes the pain out of ploughing into driving rain.
Back to my favourite bit of kit, my Tilley Hat.  Just rake it down into the wind and it keeps most of the weather out of your face and with both stays down, it stays on. 
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: forgotmyoldpassword on 11:43:03, 14/10/20
Back to my favourite bit of kit, my Tilley Hat.  Just rake it down into the wind and it keeps most of the weather out of your face and with both stays down, it stays on.


Is that if you size it down two sizes and apply superglue to the rim first? 
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 11:47:18, 14/10/20

Is that if you size it down two sizes and apply superglue to the rim first?


 ;D Don't know about Tilly hats. I have lost a couple of Beanies in high winds, when both hands have been busy scrambling up ridges.  That's when the versatility of a buff helps. O0
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: ninthace on 13:30:26, 14/10/20

Is that if you size it down two sizes and apply superglue to the rim first?
Absolutely not.  A gentleman instinctively knows how to size and wear a hat correctly.  The fore and aft retaining loops help, though it has to be really bad before I need the aft strap.  In fact, it has to be quite blowy before I wear the loops at all.  For example, today was quite blustery, enough to fold the leading edge of the brim, but I did not require a chin stay.  I can recall doing a very passable imitation of an Australian soldier in a side-on gale on the top of Whernside but it stayed on.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 00:17:55, 15/10/20
Absolutely not.  A gentleman instinctively knows how to size and wear a hat correctly.  The fore and aft retaining loops help, though it has to be really bad before I need the aft strap.  In fact, it has to be quite blowy before I wear the loops at all.  For example, today was quite blustery, enough to fold the leading edge of the brim, but I did not require a chin stay.  I can recall doing a very passable imitation of an Australian soldier in a side-on gale on the top of Whernside but it stayed on.


Seems you are not alone.  I exchange greetings with a fellow in a Tilly hat whist out on this evening's walk.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: gunwharfman on 19:06:56, 15/10/20
Since reading all of the comments I decided to check my stock of wet weather clothing, boots and hats. I have so many choices on offer, ranging from an expensive waterproof jacket to a cheap waterproof jacket, and a cheap waterproof long coat. No waterproof leggings for me but I do have three rain skirts, two homemade and one £10 cheap purchase. The £10 cheap purchase is the best. I have two pairs of waterproof gaiters, one ankle pair and one full length and I have two waterproof hats, plus two cheap ponchos and one expensive poncho. I have one pair of waterproof full leather boots and one pair of 'waterproof' fabric type boots which in reality, leak! They are being assessed by Sportshoes.com at the moment.

My combination choices are substantial but confusing, so much so I have no idea now which combination works best to keep me dry.  ;D

In case I still get wet even after wearing my wet weather gear, I have a backup plan, my hiking trousers are very quick drying as is my underwear and hiking shirts. What I don't own yet is an equally quick drying baselayer. I have a reasonably quick drying baselayer but thats it.

This little exercise even surprised myself.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: thomasdevon on 20:35:29, 15/10/20
The last two trips to Dartmoor have left me drenched to the skin. However, the only point at which I got cold was when I stopped to heat up some food. This took so long I got a little cold, but not so bad I would need to re-plan. If i had been out camping I would have got into my nice sleeping bag and been none the worse for the day.


My feet and hands were soaked through my boots and gloves due to the bad ground and rain but they stayed warm enough. I'm not finding this drenching problem a problem I need to solve yet.
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: BuzyG on 20:49:07, 15/10/20
Since reading all of the comments I decided to check my stock of wet weather clothing, boots and hats. I have so many choices on offer, ranging from an expensive waterproof jacket to a cheap waterproof jacket, and a cheap waterproof long coat. No waterproof leggings for me but I do have three rain skirts, two homemade and one £10 cheap purchase. The £10 cheap purchase is the best. I have two pairs of waterproof gaiters, one ankle pair and one full length and I have two waterproof hats, plus two cheap ponchos and one expensive poncho. I have one pair of waterproof full leather boots and one pair of 'waterproof' fabric type boots which in reality, leak! They are being assessed by Sportshoes.com at the moment.

My combination choices are substantial but confusing, so much so I have no idea now which combination works best to keep me dry.  ;D

In case I still get wet even after wearing my wet weather gear, I have a backup plan, my hiking trousers are very quick drying as is my underwear and hiking shirts. What I don't own yet is an equally quick drying baselayer. I have a reasonably quick drying baselayer but thats it.

This little exercise even surprised myself.


You introduce an interesting dilemma here.  Though not one for myself at the moment.  For a day walk I choose from the multitude of coats trousers and layers and pick a set based on the conditions forecast for that day.  But what do yo do on a multiday walk. Warm sunny day I like to wear a white cotton tee shirt, If I'm too hot the sweat stays in it and keeps me cool.  On a cooler day I wear a synthetic base layer. If I sweat it wicks away and keeps any mid layers dry. So what to take on a 4 week trek?
Title: Re: Soaked through to the skin
Post by: Gadabout Bounder on 13:19:10, 23/10/20
As a business I work in all weathers, have to get on with the work and extremes aren't the clients problems.


Walking gear is as good as can be bought but work waterproofs have let me down.


In Essex over two days, torrential persistent rain wet to the skin - no fun if you can't get out of it, 15 metres up in a cherry picker.


In Leighton Buzzard an all day downpour, same outcome.


A search on hydrostatic heads and waterproof clothing.


Event (I believe) has (for their 'best' wear) 30 000mm of HH.


Goretex 28 000mm of HH.


I'm sure these figures can be debated but this post is about a jacket bought with a 20 000mm HH that I would never have even looked at.


Trespass mens Oswalt


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trespass-Oswalt-Jacket-Black-Large/dp/B08BXB4Z2L/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=waterproof%2B20000%2Bmens%2Bjackets&qid=1602661666&sr=8-5&th=1&psc=1


Got the chance to try this jacket out on Wednesday in Cardiff.




Quite probably the worst wet weather I've ever worked in, elevated at 40 feet on the side of a Tesco Extra, work waterproof trousers are - Vass bib and braces, put the jacket on, safety harness on (so added pressure points around the jacket) and worked from 3 till 10pm.


Hard hat sorted out no wet head,, the water ran onto the jacket, no ingress into the neck area or into the wrist/sleeve area.


The rain did not stop and went from heavy rain to persistent hard rain, continuous.


When the works were eventually finished, moving the cherry picker from the main entrance/exit road, moving the diversion, packing equipment away it was midnight.


Jacket off - dry!!


I was shocked.


It's billed as breathable but no chance under the circumstances and there was some damp but certainly not wetness on the inner.


What's the work - building cleaning, pressure washing, water coming at me from all directions.


Forensic would be an understatement when I'm looking for equipment or anything else, purchases take days and it was the same to purchase this jacket.


Because the jacket performed so well the waterproof trousers were ordered, tried on and sent straight back - anyone who remembers the 70's will know about bell bottom trousers.


Might get wet every single day but I don't want to look like a 70's throwback doing it.


A great jacket that it has been difficult to find without paying Goretex/Event pricing. Other than setting a hose on yourself and a second one sideways onto front or back there can't be a more extreme test of a jacket.