OS Paper maps

[phil1960]

I've been using an iPhone 6 with GPS app and 1:25k scale mapping for a good while now. I've never had a problem with battery life despite sub zero temperatures, wind, rain or shine. I do carry a battery back up charger and paper map/compass in my pack just in case, but other than to glance at the map when we stop, haven't had to take them out as yet.

[Rhino]

Hi Phil
 
I decided to go with the 6 for my upgrade from the 5s after your posts on previous threads. I had read stories about them bending and some members on this site having problems with them in the cold. So far I havent experienced any problems apart from cold hands from removing my gloves to use the touchscreen in bad weather but like I said I have a decent case for it and when temps are that cold I keep it in my pocket so at best its exposed to the colder temps only when I need to use it and its back in the pocket before it drops below its working temp range. Actually in comparison to the 5s which has been left in my backpack just recording the track on my last two walks the 6 has used 13 and 12%  less battery power over the 5s, not bad considering I was looking at the 6 screen all the time and not the 5s screen.
 
I would certainly agree that it would not function if strapped to my chest and exposed to temps below zero but that’s why I put it in my pocket. I carry a charging unit as well in the pack and normally half way through a walk I recharge the phone with it and that too works fine in my pocket. These to me are simply solutions to make the phone work in an environment it wasn’t designed for. I wouldn’t take it to Antarctica and expect it to function as well in the pocket but in the UK and specifically in the Lakes on top of those mountains in our winter weather it works perfectly well for me to navigate with apart from having to remove gloves.
 
I have a dedicated GPS for use with the gloves on which is exposed to the elements and works great in winter and I havent seen a reduction in the normal battery pack life because of that and the lowest temp ive been in so far this year is only -8
I hate the dedicated unit because its no where near as good as the phone but I can use it with gloves on and I hate maps and compasses more than the dedicated.
In summer the dedicated will become the backup GPS and the phone the main GPS until next winter.
 
For someone who has managed to navigate most of the 214 Wainwrights using a smartphone in some of the worse weather the Lakes has to offer and no matter how insignificant that is compared to other areas of the UK or the world it is proof a smartphone can be used in place of a map and compass if only in comparison to that one area. Ive used it in Wales as well and will be intending to use it in Scotland hopefully and I don’t see any reason why it wont continue to work and do a better and safer job than map and compass.
 
Back to the thread which was about maps not being made any more. I doubt they will ever stop making them so long as there is demand but with the advancement of technology in devices and younger generations embracing it quicker there will be less demand over time and price will eventually go up. I personally don’t have any problem with anyone who prefers the map and compass I don’t understand why anyone favours it over technology but that’s why we are all different. I do get a bit defensive when map and compass users say you must carry one though and how unsafe for whatever reason a GPS or smartphone is as that’s just not correct.
 
A parting though some schools have dropped the exercise book in favour of the tablet. How long does the paper map have left 10 years, 20 years I don’t know but its only a matter of time.

[sussamb]

I do get a bit defensive when map and compass users say you must carry one though and how unsafe for whatever reason a GPS or smartphone is as that’s just not correct.

 

[April]

I do get a bit defensive when map and compass users say you must carry one

I think it is Mountain Rescue Teams who advise people to take a map and compass, even if you do have a gps and digital mapping devices?


I think the Viewranger software is fantastic when it works. It makes navigation very, very easy, far easier and quicker than using a map and compass on their own. Too easy in my opinion and people may either not learn to navigate properly or lose the skills they have; I worry that I will lose the skills I've spent 40 years learning.


Both mine and beefys tablet have had problems, for instance waiting for up to ten minutes for GPS to find where we are on the map and this has had happened numerous times. I wouldn't want to hang around that long freezing in a whiteout or hoolie. My fully charged tablet hated the cold a few weeks ago and died after a few hours. It also ran out of battery life a few months ago (we were out wild camping ) when it wouldn't go into sleep mode so it used up the 6 hour battery life. I don't want to buy extra batteries or a back up charger and carry them or take an extra device in case the first one fails. After 40 years using them a map and compass have never failed, so I will always take them. It is not a case of not embracing new technology, it is great when it works but it has failed me several times and is not 100% reliable. I will always take a map and compass and have GPS/tablet as a backup.

[phil1960]

I agree with Rhino and Sussamb above. There were some reports about the iPhone 6 bending initially, but there again I don't keep mine in my back pocket and sit on it. As Rhino says keep it in a front or jacket pocket with back up charger and there is no reason it can't be used to safely help you navigate the hills 

[sussamb]

@ April

Part of your problem is that you're using tablets, and also refuse (for reasons I accept) to take a battery back up or another electronic back up, so you need the paper map.  Bear in mind that you don't need to wait for a GPS signal, or even need one at all, since you can just use whatever device you have as an 'electronic map'.

Rhino and I, while we disagree on which is best, a dedicated device or smart phone, ensure we have an electronic back up to our primary device, and what's more have more than sufficient 'electrical power'.  I've never had a failure and for me to be completely stuck both devices I carry would have to fail.  More likely in the days I carried a map that it would have blown away in the wind or I'd simply dropped it, and in those days I had no back up 

[April]

Sussamb I use the tablet to record the route on viewranger. You need the GPS to know where you are before you start recording or it misses the start of the route.


I don't often need maps in the Lakes, I know the area so well so the tablet stays in my rucksack along with map and compass. I agree you need a backup device we just have different choices of first device 

[sussamb]

Sussamb I use the tablet to record the route on viewranger. You need the GPS to know where you are before you start recording or it misses the start of the route.

Yes, if you're recording a route you'll need a GPS lock ... or a pencil if you use a map 

[quixoticgeek]

Yet I've used an iPhone 5s and currently trialing the 6 model below zero and at over 3000ft and the only problem! I have had is cold hands. I guess you have to have the right phone in a good case and simply keep in a pocket when not in use rather than say they are useless

I notice that all those saying that a phone is the way to go are iPhone users. Amazon is listing the iphone 6 at £500. Generally speaking an active map is 9.74 or there abouts (dash4it). So for the price of replacing my every day phone with an iphone would be the same as buying 51 maps...


Then of course there are the features my phone has that no iphone has, like a qwerty keyboard... But we digress.

The reasoning behind batteries is a fair point on weight as the long distance light weight walkers do struggle with weight in their packs. I'll bet if you add up the batteries required vs all the maps there won't be much difference overall a couple 100 grams maybe at most. I carry the phone as the backup GPS so I don't see an issue if the main unit goes down. Most people carry a phone anyway so its logical. I can understand you favouring maps that's your choice but GPS is much better and easier and with smartphones you need to trust and embrace them and make adjustments to make them work around any limitations.

The problem you run into there tho is what happens if after 300km of a 400km trip you run out of battery... get water in the phone... drop it on a rock... You then have a useless brick. With printed maps, ideally just the area you need on a a4 sheets of waterproof paper, it's relatively light weight.


Ultimately it comes down to personal choice. I do not trust electronic devices for navigational processes (too long working in software engineering), and would rather switch my phone off and just use a paper[1] map.


J


[1]Actually I'd like them to be printed on tyvek...

[alewife]

Question: so do all of you device users use just your devices when planning a route. I have to admit to rather enjoying leaning over a paper map and planning a route, I'm not against the idea of using an electronic device but assume you have to do the planning on a computer or similar as well. I only have an ancient blackberry,and wouldn't take my tablet into the hills so I am just curious.

[phil1960]

Oh dear! So if my iPhone gets wet or damaged, whatever will I do? Oh yeah I still have a relevant map and compass just in case. Horses for courses really, the compass is a great tool and I love the maps, but while it's not wet, damaged or out of power I'll keep using my phone and GPS app. By the way, my iPhone cost me nothing 

[phil1960]

Question: so do all of you device users use just your devices when planning a route. I have to admit to rather enjoying leaning over a paper map and planning a route, I'm not against the idea of using an electronic device but assume you have to do the planning on a computer or similar as well. I only have an ancient blackberry,and wouldn't take my tablet into the hills so I am just curious.

Deb I do my routes on a laptop then one click and it's on my phone. I have loads of paper and coated maps of all descriptions and do occasionally use a roamer to plot a specific grid reference, so I guess I have a foot in both camps, but for me and ease of use, it's the gadget every time 

[sussamb]

The problem you run into there tho is what happens if after 300km of a 400km trip you run out of battery... get water in the phone... drop it on a rock... You then have a useless brick. With printed maps, ideally just the area you need on a a4 sheets of waterproof paper, it's relatively light weight.

Well the counter argument is what happens if you get your map wet ..  Drop it ...  Lose it .... Blown away etc.  We can all think of situations where something will fail.  I've done trips in the hundreds  of miles and never had any issue.  As posted above the main point is to ensure you have a back up.  I have one.  For those who use a map have you considered yours?  I know when I used maps I didn't even consider having one, so I reckon I'm safer now 

[Owen]

I

The problem you run into there tho is what happens if after 300km of a 400km trip you run out of battery...

This the problem I'm grappling with, I'm going on a trip to Sarek National Park in Sweden for two weeks backpacking. I have the maps I need, I could get the GPS mapping card for the area but that's about £120 and then how do I power it? Carry a big box of batteries? Buy a solar panel charger? Or, a power monkey thingy? What do they weigh?


I could just use the maps but their only 1:100,000 and reputedly drawn by Walt Disney.

[Rhino]

I think it is Mountain Rescue Teams who advise people to take a map and compass, even if you do have a gps and digital mapping devices?

Yes your right April but i am assuming from the stories i have read most of the people who are daft enough to go for a walk with the wrong clothing, no map or compass or just a phone and no idea of its limitations or how to use it correctly and never check the weather would not have been any better off if they had carried a map and compass. For me all the methods are perfectly acceptable if they are used correctly and the user knows what they are doing and it is clear some devices have more limitations than others so knowing what those are before you set out allows you to decide what you need or what risks your going to take.

I notice that all those saying that a phone is the way to go are iPhone users. Amazon is listing the iphone 6 at £500. Generally speaking an active map is 9.74 or there abouts (dash4it). So for the price of replacing my every day phone with an iphone would be the same as buying 51 maps...


Then of course there are the features my phone has that no iphone has, like a qwerty keyboard... But we digress.

Yes there is the cost but most people have a smartphone on contract so if your in that boat why not make use of what your paying for, i use mine for car satnav as well saving on replacing my tom tom last year when it broke. I know not everyone will pay the price for an iPhone but most other smartphones will do just as good a job if not better in some cases if the limitations are taken into account and resolved. I am lucky in that mine are work phones so i dont have that expense but if they were not i would happily pay for it or another type of smartphone and thats even more reason to make the most of the tech to get your monies worth. Taking the cost of the phone away mapping on Viewranger is a lot cheaper than paper maps 5 national parks in 50k for £10 what a bargain and just buy the mapping you want in either 50 or 25k for any area you cant beat it and if you could i would be using it


The iPhone has a qwerty keyboard as well and you can change it to other types 

Question: so do all of you device users use just your devices when planning a route. I have to admit to rather enjoying leaning over a paper map and planning a route, I'm not against the idea of using an electronic device but assume you have to do the planning on a computer or similar as well. I only have an ancient blackberry,and wouldn't take my tablet into the hills so I am just curious.

Hi Deb, i can plan a route on the phone, tablet, laptop or pc and transfer via the internet to all my devices registered to my viewranger account by syncing them. I dont have a problem route plotting on my Iphone finding it just as easy as on the pc and the newer 6 model is even better with a bigger screen, i do struggle on my Garmin because its a smaller screen and its not for sitting round the table in the pub and saying look here is where we are going but it can be done painfully. Equally a map on the table in the pub doesnt leave enough room for my beer on the table but i can just pass the iPhone around and everyone can see it and keep there beer on the table as well    If you want to print a map off you can do as well in 50k or 25k or open street mapping if you dont own any 25 or 50k mapping. Its the future 

Well the counter argument is what happens if you get your map wet ..  Drop it ...  Lose it .... Blown away etc.  We can all think of situations where something will fail.  I've done trips in the hundreds  of miles and never had any issue.  As posted above the main point is to ensure you have a back up.  I have one.  For those who use a map have you considered yours?  I know when I used maps I didn't even consider having one, so I reckon I'm safer now 

Yes the backup is the key and what are the odds of both going pear shape    The battery can be extended by turning on and off and using a compass with a bearing taken from the GPS although i would prefer to carry batteries and just use the GPS    cant see me doing any walk long enough not to come across a pub long before i ran out power