Walking Forum
Main Boards => News and Articles => Topic started by: jontea on 12:01:36, 09/06/16
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Just so we are clear, I have a GPS and use it. But my main nav tool is map and compass, I use my GPS to confirm position, and track data.
So I am Pro GPS, but this article, does bring up some interesting points.
I think the interesting question that was mentioned was; how much pleasure and satisfaction do we get from map reading to a position, as opposed to following a GPS heading ?
Your thoughts ?
http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2016/06/08/is-using-your-gps-gadget-on-the-mountains-a-threat-to-your-life
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Same old story I'm afraid. It assumes those who use GPS either don't know how to use them or have poor nav skills. No difference to those who head out with map not knowing how to use it and simply follow way markers until something goes wrong.
Think all of us here who use GPS also know how to navigate and won't, as the article implies, blindly follow it O0
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I read this article last night and thought of publishing a link to it but decided it was poorly argued and would just reignite the map & compass versus GPS debate so I did not bother. But since you bring it up....
I use GPS, map and compass when I walk. My primary tool is the GPS and I have a phone with Viewranger on it as a back up. I plan my walks before I go. I carry spare batteries for my GPS. I also carry a printed map of my intended route and I have the OS map for the area I am in. I suspect I am not alone in this - most people will make similar arrangements. Using GPS, I still know where I am in the landscape and I use it confirm I am on the right route and to locate myself on that route. I can also set my GPS to warn me if I stray to far from my intended route. None of this detracts from the pleasure of my walk but rather adds to it as I am not tied up in navigating to the same extent and can still use the map to identify or visit features of interest on my way. Moreover, I can still deviate from my path if I wish but with more confidence.
To suggest that people will follow an arrow on a GPS wherever it takes them shows little faith in common sense and ignores the way a modern GPS is used. Most GPS units have mapping on them and can be set up to show the track or route to follow. If you plot a route that goes over a cliff and then blindly follow it then that is Darwin in action!
Using map and compass is a dark art for many people. I suspect a similar argument could be advanced saying that they too are a threat to life as one can just as easily get lost using them, especially in bad weather when more skill is required. I would agree that more people are going out into the hills relying solely on a smart phone and getting caught out. That is an argument for education, not for condemning the equipment used.
I agree there is an arcane pleasure in using a map and compass but there is too in learning to use a GPS.
So my opinion is that electronics, maps and compasses are not mutually exclusive so I am neither pro or anti GPS. They are all tools to help us enjoy the countryside, I can and do use all of them.
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Preparation before you go maybe.
Bring up the old Memory Map onto the screen and then upload waypoints/route into the device....print out the map with waypoints marked....also take both O.S. map for the area to visit and have a compass. :)
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I didn't really want to bring the map versus GPS debate up from a safety point of view, although the thread does suggest folk throwing themselves off cliff edges ::)
I think the interesting question that was mentioned was; how much pleasure and satisfaction do we get from map reading to a position, as opposed to following a GPS heading ?
Do we see as much of our surroundings using a GPS as a map ?
The article would imply we don't. :-\
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Like ninthace, I reckon I see more as my head isn't so often involved in map work ;)
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Like ninthace, I reckon I see more as my head isn't so often involved in map work ;)
That is certainly true. My gps beeps as I pass waypoints and warns me if I am too far off my intended track so as long as it beeps and doesn't warble I can just keep walking and admiring the view. Only look at it if I need to make a decision or check progress. Happy days! O0
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Before the time of GPS you had no choice. I being of a certain age used to rely on OS map and compass, and still carry these should the GPS fail. Plus a separate printed out map of my intended route.
Whilst anybody could make a mistake whatever they use I'm a fan of GPS and I feel far more confident knowing exactly where I am rather than where I think I am. That assumes the GPS is correct :D
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That assumes the GPS is correct :D
Which is why you should still be able to read a map, whether a paper or electronic one, so you know if somehow it's wrong O0
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Which is why you should still be able to read a map, whether a paper or electronic one, so you know if somehow it's wrong O0
I have never had a GPS problem to date, and that might be the risk when/if that happens as I and I suspect others have become increasingly trusting thereof.
It's also many years since I've used a compass so perhaps I should have a refresher when next out :)
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TBH I have never found my GPS to be far out whereas I have found OS maps to be "wrong". For example, I once nearly followed the green dashed line of a PROW drawn straight into a steep sided ravine and it wasn't a map reading error (I checked with the GPS). >:(
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Do we see as much of our surroundings using a GPS as a map ?
I recently started using Viewranger and I've found that by plotting my route I can take in the scenery more as I'm not so occupied with navigation. I have more confidence too in attempting routes that might be tricky to navigate. But I plan my walks with a paper map, which I take with me, and I'm very much aware of how the walk relates to the wider context of the landscape.
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Preparation before you go maybe.
Bring up the old Memory Map onto the screen and then upload waypoints/route into the device....print out the map with waypoints marked....also take both O.S. map for the area to visit and have a compass. :)
Ditto - and although I have a compass - I have never needed to use it, cos I can work out which way I am pointing by checking the surrounding landmarks against the map I've printed out. (Admittedly I'm a fairweather walker and have always been able to see around me.) I like to follow my route on the map, and use the GPS to confirm that I've gone the wrong way!
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Re: Is using a GPS a threat to your life!!!
..if it went wrong and you relied on it without any back up then it could be!
also you might drop it and trip over it and hurt yourself ...so double yes
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On a recent walk the trail I was following began to diverge sharply from my GPS route. I assumed I had taken a wrong turning and left the trail, cutting across rough ground to reach the path indicated by the GPS. When I got there I found there was no path. Then I realised that the trail I had been following was the right one and the GPS route was simply a straight line between two waypoints that disregarded the curvature of the trail between those waypoints. My GPS (not the unit itself, but the route I had downloaded) was wrong. But you can't follow a GPS blindly, any more than you can follow a map blindly.
On the same walk the day after, I had to make a diversion from the route I was following because of a collapsed bridge. The diversion was a couple of miles long and I found that my GPS with its tiny screen was all but useless for plotting a route over that distance. I had to navigate by map, and I enjoyed it.
I agree that navigating by GPS frees you up to enjoy the scenery more. But it does take something away too. When you navigate by map you have more of a sense of where you are in relation to your wider surroundings. You can look at a distant hill or river and identify it from the map, and you can say "my route took me within 2 miles west of x". You can't do that with a GPS. Perhaps it's not an issue if you're on familiar territory, but it does emerge when you're walking somewhere new.
Then again, I've been on hills in cloud and just carried on walking thanks to my GPS, whereas I would certainly have found navigating by map harder and I might easily have gone astray. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages.
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Could there be another point that is being missed? There have always been people that have gone into the hills with a map and compass even though they don't know how to use it.
Having new technology doesn't change that. If you don't know how to read a map then you will be unlikely to be able to effectively read a GPS.
Maps and compass have been around for a long time and for those that have taken the time to learn how to use them they are excellent tools.
GPS and electronic maps have become much more affordable and versatile in the last ten years and if you take the time to convert the Map and compass skills or learn how to use the new technology without touching a Map and compass then that is also an excellent tool.
Both Map and compass and GPS have limitations, if you know how to read maps you will understand the limitations. When you know the limitations you can take the appropriate steps to mitigate those limitations by selecting a similar or different type of back up, or both.
IMO there are too many people that put there trust in the tools without taking the time to learn how to use them properly. No different that a chippy using a hammer to put screws in!
I'm different in that as I train teenagers how to use Map and compass for their DofE expeds I still use Map and compass as my main tool. I supervise the teams and I prefer to have maps so that I can figure out where they might be if they aren't where they think they are or should be! I also have a Etrex 10 in my rucksack just in case I have one of those Oh [censored] moments. Only ever had one of those and that is what spurred me on to buy a GPS ;-) I do have colleagues whom use digital mapping tools for the same purpose as I use paper.
If you don't know how to read a map, paper or digital, then a compass or GPS won't help. Those are the people that the article are aimed at, not those of us that can read a map.
The art, for me, is to read my route, from the map, and determine what features that I should be aiming for, or passing in a short distance then to put the map in my pocket so that I can enjoy the walk. The GPS can be used similarly.
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it might also be worth mentioning that a compass is uneccessary really if you have a dog with you in a new area. There is scientific evidence that dogs will poo to the north ..
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/dogs-poop-in-alignment-with-earths-magnetic-field-study-finds/
so, so longa as you dont mind squeezing your dogs tummy like a tube of toothpaste when you're not sure of your direction, all should be well :)
Personally I've not fully tested this, but it must be true.
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Putting cost issues to one side for a minute, if your DoE students were shown how to select and plot a route on a map and then migrate it to a GPS with mapping on it, do you think they would they get lost more or less often?
Also if they ran into trouble and were GPS equipped, would they not be able to give an accurate grid ref?
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"Putting cost issues to one side for a minute, if your DoE students were shown how to select and plot a route on a map and then migrate it to a GPS with mapping on it, do you think they would they get lost more or less often?
Also if they ran into trouble and were GPS equipped, would they not be able to give an accurate grid ref?"
Would they learn from having the GPS do more/all of the work? There is sooooo much learning that goes on from them getting lost, or even just going off route for a short distance that I would not advocate them using a GPS so that they could be 100% accurate
They already have the opportunity to plan routes, print maps and create route cards using mapping software provided by DofE. (I suspect that there is the ability to download files from those functions but we/I don't use them.)
There are plenty of "life skills" that come from using a map. Focus, concentration, teamwork, negotiation etc, The GPS cannot facilitate that. I can.
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My map skills are not the best, and I don't (yet) have a GPS;if you're joining me for the Brecon Beacons meet up in July, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED ;D ;D
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It's OK Debs, I'll have mine with me ;)
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It's OK Debs, I'll have mine with me ;)
O0
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Interesting article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36493619 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36493619)
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I think “casual” walkers who use GPS assume it works the same as a car satnav and don’t realise that (as kukkudrill says) the line between waypoints is “as the crow flies” and not the actual “path on the ground”.
Perhaps those are the types of people the article is referring to and not folks such as those on this forum who choose walking as a hobby/career and learn the skills behind the GPS (ie. map reading) to compliment this.
I know the first time I used a GPS to navigate (a route I’d plotted myself) I fell into this trap of assuming the route shown between the waypoints would “read the map” and take me along the path on the ground. I remember feeling rather disillusioned with the usefulness of a GPS after that outing!!!! It was only after digging deeper to figure out what went wrong that I realised “properly” how following a pre-plotted GPS route works.
A “casual” walker who’s seen a “nice walk” in the paper, downloaded a route and followed it, might get confused when their direction of travel arrow is pointing them a different way to the path on the ground – then tries to follow the arrow (because the route must be right), especially if the GPS starts chirping and beeping at them because they’ve strayed a certain distance from the plotted route… I can see how they could get into difficulty if they can’t read a map and are, indeed, blindly following the “instructions” of the GPS and don’t understand how the unit generates the route between each waypoint.
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Some interesting comments made.
Personally I enjoy navigating with paper map and compass, because I find it more of a challenge.
In the past, I've enjoyed testing my skills in more remote areas and in poor weather on solo walks, gradually making routes more difficult.
But carrying the GPS and knowing how to use it has given me the confidence to be able to do it.
Knowing if I get it wrong on the map, my GPS will bail me out.
Yes I agree your head isn't in your map every couple of minutes using a GPS, and this would allow you to admire the views around you, check out the wild life etc. and that in itself brings satisfaction, and pleasure, I know because I've done it. :)
However I think from map reading, you're looking at those same views but in a different way, noting the terrain and everything in it when map reading becomes some how, more important and therefore you become more aware of your position.
And so when I do get it right, under whatever circumstances arise I'm rather pleased with myself ;)
But it's thanks to my GPS I Have done it O0
I guess it all comes down to what an individual wants from a walk ;)
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Interesting article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36493619 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36493619)
Jamming of GPS for military training purposes. Interesting indeed. Are the Hebrides a military training area or could this conceivably happen in other places like the Lake District for example?
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Jamming of GPS for military training purposes. Interesting indeed. Are the Hebrides a military training area or could this conceivably happen in other places like the Lake District for example?
I would have to kill you and eat you if I told you........... but "some parts are" and "no" in that order if my ATC map of the UK is to be believed. Exercises of this type this tend to take place in areas of low population density. The Lake District is a low flying training area so you get the hills and a free flying display - bonus. Jet noise is the sound of freedom!
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I would have to kill you and eat you and Exercise in The Lake District so you get the sound of freedom!
Funny how you can edit a quote ;D
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Funny you ;D