Author Topic: The Nab and an access issue  (Read 2531 times)

pdstsp

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The Nab and an access issue
« on: 12:44:35, 09/05/18 »
Afternoon all


I had a strange encounter on Saturday.  I had walked from Howtown up to Bonscale Pike, and then round to Steel Knotts.  My route then took me up the road towards the northern end of the Nab with the intention of climbing it from the valley.  I was aware that there are access issues, particularly as the estate look after the red deer population, so had emailed and rung during the week, without reply.


Anyway - reached the gate leading up to the bungalow and came across the private etec signs, but chose to ignore them.  However, after reaching the second gate I cam across a very pleasant guy in his 4x4 who explained to me that he wasn't allowing me to cross the 200 or so metres of his land to reach the open fell, which is marked as access land in OS maps.  We had a "friendly" disagreement - I pointed out that the rut was in October and the deer will not calve until next month, and that I had scanned the fell with binoculars and could see no groups of deer on my intended route.  His response was two fold - one that I should go another harder way, as my proposed route was the easy option.  I countered this with the fact that I had already had quite a long walk.  His second point was that if he let me go, he'd have to let everybody go.  I countered this by pointing out that I had just walked up the road, and he had just driven up it, and neither of us had seen another living person.  All to no avail.


I suppose I could have ignored him, kept walking and seen what his reaction was, but decided that I would give way, so retraced my steps back to the car.


I have some sympathy with the fact that this area is a deer sanctuary but I was mighty cheesed off that I didn't finish my intended walk.  Did I do the right thing?


Paul




Ridge

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #1 on: 13:11:23, 09/05/18 »
I think you did the right thing, you certainly did what I would have done in the circumstances.


I don't think the deer have anything to do with not being able to walk on his land, they are on the open access land and you are just as likely to disturb them whichever route you take.


I've only ever walked down the Nab south-north and never met anyone but thought it would be very hard to turn me back once I was coming off the hill.
Over hill, over dale. Thorough brush, thorough brier....
I do wander every where

pdstsp

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #2 on: 13:34:58, 09/05/18 »
Cheers Ridge - glad you think I did the right thing.


I agree with you about the deer - though I can see that when calving or in bad weather they may come down to the valley for safety.


Next time I'll come a different way, have exactly the same impact as I would have done had I ignored him, but at least won't have soiled his estate with my peasant presence  ;D


Upside was that I stopped the car on my way to where I was staying and walked up Gowbarrow Fell via the path below Little Meldrun - and came across a solitary red deer stag in the woods - he looked at me for a good two minutes before sauntering off - truly wonderful sight, though I didn't dare get the camera out for fear of scaring him off.

photonut

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #3 on: 15:42:46, 09/05/18 »
Hi Paul,

Sorry to hear about you being refused access to the land adjacent to The Nab.  What a miserable so-and-so that chap was!  What inconvenience or damage would you have done???  >:(


I guess the respectable thing is, as you have done, stated your case and if it is still a no go then turn around and leave.

The 'not so respectable response' would have been to leg it across the land and up The Nab as fast as possible to see if the landowner can catch you - I doubt it.


I may have elected for the later  ;D


I've only done The Nab from the foot of Rest Dodd and then returned because of the 'privately owned' land surrounding it.  It was a nice walk in the midst of winter with, I may add, lots of deer.


Cheers
Lee


PS: Eagle Crag is a great little scramble/ walk... and finding your way to the top is really easy!  (GPX file available if needed  O0  )

pdstsp

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #4 on: 16:38:48, 09/05/18 »
Hi Lee


You should know that legging it is no longer an option for me - the achilles and other war wounds mean ambling is my top speed.  ;D [size=78%] [/size]


I was up Eagle Crag on Sunday - wonderful day out with a little inversion first thing and then clear clear skies all day


Paul 

Lakeland Lorry

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #5 on: 17:04:56, 09/05/18 »
......who explained to me that he wasn't allowing me to cross the 200 or so metres of his land to reach the open fell, which is marked as access land in OS maps. 


The Dalemain Estate closely monitor that stretch of land between the northern end of The Nab and where the road ends at Dale Head.   Although it's a small area of land, it shows clearly on the maps that it's not Open Access.   I've known quite a few people who have been asked to go another way when they been spotted nipping across to The Nab.


As you say, you were aware of the access issues before you had set out on the walk.   As least the guy acted pleasant towards you.   I know of a couple of farmers in the western Lakes who wouldn't have been so nice to you.




fernman

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #6 on: 18:43:04, 09/05/18 »
His second point was that if he let me go, he'd have to let everybody go.

I think the above is the crux of the matter.
He wasn't to know if you'd tell your friends they should try that route because you got away with it. Can't you just hear one or a group of them saying "Well, you let my mate through two weeks ago!"
Or if you had succeeded without being apprehended, you might have suggested the route on a blog - or posted about it on a forum!

photonut

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #7 on: 19:24:38, 09/05/18 »
You should know that legging it is no longer an option for me - the achilles and other war wounds mean ambling is my top speed.  ;D

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about your war injuries  :D



I was up Eagle Crag on Sunday - wonderful day out with a little inversion first thing and then clear clear skies all day




Ooo you must be very close to completing your Wainwrights then?  On target for June?

happyhiker

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #8 on: 19:39:45, 09/05/18 »
I have come across anomalies in relation to Access Land. For example, did a walk in the Malham area across such land. Followed an obvious track down to a gate to exit on to a ROW, to find it chained and padlocked. I easily climbed over it but did wonder what the legal position is. It cannot be reasonable to wander round the perimeter of such land in the hope of finding an unlocked exit. This could be a considerable distance, not to mention the detour adding miles to a walk. There is no way of knowing in advance which access/ egress points are open.


Any thoughts?

Percy

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #9 on: 19:52:23, 09/05/18 »
I emailed the Dalemain estate in March to enquire about going on to the Nab. They were happy for people to go up there after 31st March (end of the stalking season) but only wanted you to approach from Rest Dodd and return the way you came.

pdstsp

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #10 on: 20:18:27, 09/05/18 »
Interesting comments and all very reasonable - I really do understand the importance of the work done to protect the deer, and I admire it.  And, to be fair, I would have crossed the land twice .  I think it was the right decision - I suppose I should be pleased that a 54 year old accountant looks like a potential guerilla  :) :) .  Anyway it's an excuse to go back to nab the nab, but from a different direction.


Mel

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #11 on: 20:25:12, 09/05/18 »
Happyhiker - "You are permitted to climb over walls or fences to get into, out of, or across open access land, as long as you donít damage them."

Quote taken from the paragraph above "Restrictions" HERE


Hope that helps  :)




pdstsp - I also think you did the right thing, as frustrating as I'm sure it was  :(   It does seem a little odd though that you can roam all over the fell from the south to north, stopping short of "their land".  In reality, what difference would another couple of hundred feet make to get to the road?  I'm sure you're just as likely, if not more so, to see deer on The Nab as in the valley  :-\



No expense spared in pursuit of a bargain ;)
https://snailspacewalks.blogspot.co.uk/

photonut

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #12 on: 22:25:19, 09/05/18 »
I emailed the Dalemain estate in March to enquire about going on to the Nab. They were happy for people to go up there after 31st March (end of the stalking season) but only wanted you to approach from Rest Dodd and return the way you came.

Hi Tim,

Perhaps I am incorrect but isn't The Nab (routing from Rest Dodd) totally within Open Access land?  Therefore, surely it doesn't matter what the opinion of Dalesman Estates is, you can go there whenever you like providing you remain within the Open Access land. 

It was early March when I went, there were lots of deer but they soon ran off when I approached.  I walked along The Nab from Rest Dodd because of its colour coding illustrated on my map.  There are no additional notes to the contrary saying it is accessible within certain times of the year, so I don't see how they can dictate to people when and where you are permitted.  Just a thought :)

Cheers
Lee
« Last Edit: 22:35:05, 09/05/18 by photonut »

photonut

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #13 on: 22:29:03, 09/05/18 »
"You are permitted to climb over walls or fences to get into, out of, or across open access land, as long as you donít damage them."

Quote taken from the paragraph above "Restrictions" HERE


Mel,

That is a very helpful post - thank you.  I have often wondered about this, where it is not possible to find a gate (or where one has been blocked off  >:(  ) within a wall in Open Access land.


Cheers
Lee

April

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Re: The Nab and an access issue
« Reply #14 on: 23:15:58, 09/05/18 »
@ pdstsp I have only ever used the Rest Dodd and back again route, I know the landowners are not happy to allow access from the Bungalow side. You did the right thing by turning back, you would have been trespassing otherwise. The deer are all over the fells over there, Place Fell, Brock Crags, Beda Fell so the reason of not allowing access in order to not disturb the deer seems to be a rather weak one.
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