Walking Forum
Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: humansnail on 18:04:50, 23/02/19
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Hello,
I've used a vango banshee for the last 5 years or so and for the price it has been pretty hard to fault.............. except for the weight. At first, I didn't really mind as everything I had was heavy, but the thought of shaving off a kilo is becoming very tempting! However, when looking into lightweight tents it has become a bit of a mine field with many reviews giving conflincting info.
I would be using my tent in three seasons (probably go back to the banshee for the odd winter night w/ good forecast) mainly up high in the lakes,cheviots and scotland.
I was looking at the force ten helium (about £190) online and the terra nove laser competition ( on offer for £230 at cotswolds at the moment). It will just be for me, but I'll go for a 2 man for the extra room. In an ideal world, I'd go for a soulo, akto or tarptent scarp, but £250 is the absolute max I can go so unfortunately they are out of the question :(
I have also looked at some msr offerings but I don't trust my ability to get an inner pitching first tent up quick enough in the rain!
My main worries about lighter tents are to do with condensation (are we talking way more than something like the banshee? I never really had much problem with condensation in that. Do you often wake up with a damp sleeping bag in these kind of tents?) and wind/weather resistance. What kind of wind speed can these sort of tents handle roughly? They look so thin and light it's hard to believe that they could cope with much wind!
If anyone has a laser comp or force 10 helium, I'd love to hear your thoughts on either of those or if anyone could recommend something better in the sub £250 price range, I'd be greatful of any recommendations.
Thanks again,
HS
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I doubt that you will have any problems with condensation in a well ventilated double skin tent.
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Thanks Richard, it must have been all of those "drip coffin" posts on here a while back that got me worried. ;D
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I've moved to a treking-pole pyramid because it has more headroom.
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Have a look at Naturehike tents
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I agree with Richard, the tents you are talking about are double skin and shouldn't have any particular problem with condensation. I've used a Helium 100 (the one person version) as a lightweight solo tent for a while now and have been happy with it. I want a new light two person tent for me and my partner to use on walking trips and will be looking into the new Naturehike Chinese clones (if clones they are). As Zuludog suggests.
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In my experience any silnylon tent suffers from higher condensation than polyester ones - the penalty for the reduced weight.
That said, as long as you have a solid inner your bag stays dry.
I have a laser comp and condensation is mild - say 1 night in 3/4. It's tough compared to the real lightweight tents. I recommend shortening the fly elastics by tying a knot in them to make it easier to get a taut pitch. The 2g pegs are fine for pitching on clay soils.
My current regular tent is a Nordisk Telemark 1 - lighter, warmer and quicker pitching than the Laser, but fragile (I've repaired it twice) and with serious condensation say 4 nights in 5. The fly is only dry if it's been windy all night. Still my bag stays dry.
I also have a freestanding Naturehike tent. I can't fault the build quality - details tend to be on the robust side rather than saving weight wherever possible. Their designs are US design clones - hence usually all mesh inners and inner first pitching - not ideal for UK conditions, but excellent value for money. I've not used it enough to get an accurate measure of its condensation problems. I'm considering spaying its orange fly to make it more stealthy!
The KAILAS Dragonfly UL has been piquing my interest as a UL summer only tent It's within your budget - particular if you buy during one of their regular 20% off sales.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KAILAS-Waterproof-Foldable-Camping-Tents-Dragonfly-UL-Double-Layer-Lightweight-Portable-UV-Protection-Windproof-Ventilation-Tent/32965754096.html
One warning the all up weight is about 700 grams according to the US Amazon website - the poles and pegs seem to be omitted from the advertised weight.
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I've not used it enough to get an accurate measure of its condensation problems. I'm considering spaying its orange fly to make it more stealthy!
Ouch!!!
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I have a Marmot Pulsar 1P with a mesh inner and its been a great tent for me. I often get condensation on the inner side of the outer cover and over the last 3/4 years have only suffered from the occasional drip onto my sleeping bag. I usually cause a drip when I flick off large slugs that in the night that just love to crawl up the mesh area. Why is that?
I need a new tent, some of my poles were broken two years ago, but I can't find replacements, I too have been looking at Naturehike and fancy the Taga One, I could by two of their tents for the price of my Marmot. I'm also interested in the Wild Country Helm 1, I like the colour for a start, my Marmot is bright orange, for me its greatest failing! As always, I just can't decide!
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When you're shopping around for a new tent, pay attention to the specifications and descriptions
The makers know that for backpacking tents we pay a great deal of attention to the weight, and the price of course. So they will do all sorts of tricks to give a false impression of a lower weight
This includes things like only supplying the absolute minimum number of pegs, just enough to get the thing up on a perfectly manicured lawn on a flat calm summer's day
For anything that we might normally expect, like the Lake District in October, they class as 'extreme conditions' and you will need to buy extra pegs, thus increasing the cost & weight. Alternatively pegs may be so small and flimsy as to be virtually useless, but they satisfy the letter of the specification
Other common deceptions include missing out the weight of pegs, bags, guylines, and even poles in the initial descriptions. They will be there somewhere in the fine print, or explained away by statements like 'stripped weight' minimum weight' and so on
I'm sure the makers will make certain that they do not actually do anything illegal, but IMO it is sharp practice
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The misuse of words also anger me. Why should a superlight tent weigh more than light tent or an ultralight weigh more then either. Not just tents, everything. Fair comparisons are hard work.
Before I forget, let's not mention the obviously fake reviews.
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Thank you for all of the feedback/ideas - this has given me lots to think about. O0
Re Zuludog - thanks, I have been trying to work out which tents will need better pegs (laser comp and a few others) and adding the weight of the replacement pegs into the total weight etc and generally taking a closer look at the manufacturers specifications/descriptions. O0
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The misuse of words also anger me. Why should a superlight tent weigh more than light tent or abd ultralight weigh more then either. Not just tents, everything. Fair comparisons are hard work.
Before I forget, let's not mention the obviously fake reviews.
Like the Wild Country Helm 1 that Gunwharfman said 4 posts earlier that he's interested in.
The makers describe this one-man tent as "lightweight" and "ideal for the camper or backpacker looking for a lightweight tent" yet it's weight is given as 1.87kg / 4 lb 2 oz. I wouldn't call that lightweight!!!
And don't get me started about fake reviews. Amazon is awash with them now, all written in poor English in the same gushy, praiseworthy style and probably originating from the country where the goods are made. (Sorry, this belongs in the Small Rant thread.)
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Like the Wild Country Helm 1 that Gunwharfman said 4 posts earlier that he's interested in.
The makers describe this one-man tent as "lightweight" and "ideal for the camper or backpacker looking for a lightweight tent" yet it's weight is given as 1.87kg / 4 lb 2 oz. I wouldn't call that lightweight!!!
My Naturehike 'Cloud 2 UP' (large 2-person tent) weighs (all in) 1.6kgs and includes all pegs, poles, guylines, fly sheet, tent AND the extra 'groundsheet/footprint' including peg bag, pole bag and overall bag.
Has an 8000HH rating, silicon flysheet and is very well made.
At 1.87Kg a one-man tent is certainly not 'lightweight'
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Just go for a tarp and bivi bag! Very light, extremely flexible, ultra-stealthy O0
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I've just remembered.......
Have a look at the Hex Peak V4a. This is, if you like, halfway between an orthodox tent and a tarp. You buy the outer, and use it single skin with just a groundsheet, or an inner as you wish, usually in cooler weather
To get the maximum weight saving it uses your trekking poles
I know a couple of people who use this, and they're happy enough with it
Find it at www.backpackinglight.co.uk and videos on YouTube
Backpacking Light have other similar shelters, just Search their website
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(My 1st post)
Well, I'm an American geezer ('70s) who needs to count every ounce and I've really liked my Tarptent Moment DW. I have modded it for winter by running the optional crossing pole under the fly instead of over it, as originally designed by Henry Shires. This gives the Moment DW much better snow load and wind resistance. But ya still need to stake down the fly hem stake loops to prevent the flapping from driving you nuts all night.
I'll take the design of the Moment DW over any similar Atko or other design for several reasons, CF struts at each end, two doors and two vestibules, 4 season usability, great ventilation and price, esp. compared to Hilleberg.
Eric B.
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I'll take the design of the Moment DW over any similar Atko or other design for several reasons, CF struts at each end, two doors and two vestibules, 4 season usability, great ventilation and price, esp. compared to Hilleberg.
Eric B.
Here in the UK we have to pay the penalty of excessive import tax duties which totally puts me off ordering anything from the United States
When you add import tax, handling fees etc. To the price it becomes expensive :(
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I'm also interested in the Wild Country Helm 1, I like the colour for a start, my Marmot is bright orange, for me its greatest failing! As always, I just can't decide!
The Helm 1 is on my radar too - looks like a good tough all rounder.
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I had a one person vango helium, which I managed to snag for a good price at £140 from the US including delivery and import fees. However, issues... Firstly, I could not get this tent taut, it would become very flappy very quickly, so I was starting to have concerns about how well it would hold up in any kind of wind. Then, I noticed I could see daylight through the fly, there were several perfect semicircle punctures in it. Fortunately the trip I was on saw no wind, not even a breeze, and not a drop of rain either. So I sent the tent back (to the US...) to get a refund, and because of my concern of wind-worthiness, I didn't get another one. Perhaps I had a duff one, but I have been put off this model because of this experience, which is a shame because it was a good price for a compact and light tent!
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I have been put off this model because of this experience, which is a shame because it was a good price for a compact and light tent!
Was it a 'good price' because no one would buy them ?
Was it 'light' because it had chunks missing (holes) ?
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I had a really good look on line last night under the heading of 'one man backpacking tents' and some variations on that theme to guide me to a definitive decsion about which tent I might buy. I read and read but I could not find one that really stood out as 'the best' for a reasonable price, up to £250. The reviewers mostly seem to concentate on what appears to be, either the biggest manufacturers, or the most popular, or big names that are not particulary good anyway, that is,being too heavy for rucksac comfort.
I'm still looking, Naturehike is still top of my list, with the Helm 1 being second, Big Ages seems to be a serious contender as does REI. I'm sure I'm expecting too much of a tent but I still feel the urge to look.
My criteria is, a 3 season tent with a side opening, mesh inside yes, but preferably not all of it and I want a small zip exit to store small things outside but under the tent on the opposite side to my exit 'door!' I want to be able to sit upright, want to be able to slide back and forth for about 12 inches as well. As you may recognise this is the MSR Hubba Hubba type concept which is what I know I like, which is also why the Naturehike tent is still top of my list. I also want the tent to be 'light in weight' but have never really decided what is a 'light' tent and which isn't a 'light' tent? The floor plan also needs to be wide enough to store my clothing and so on both sides of my sleeping matress. I'm happy to have a tent which is inner first, outer second and equally happy to have a tent where inner and outer are combined. This time though I want to avoid garish colours which sets me against the Naturehike tent, basic green would suit me fine so this is where I start favouring the Helm 1. I will make a decision sooner or later!
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The reviewers mostly seem to concentate on what appears to be, either the biggest manufacturers, or the most popular, or big names that are not particulary good anyway, that is,being too heavy for rucksac comfort.
Far be it for me to suggest the big names offer financial inducements, but I'm sure that people get taken for nice lunches and dinners, and given free tickets for trade shows, etc., not to mention free products being handed out for testing, in which case they must feel obliged to write nice things about them rather than saying theey're a heap of ****.
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beefy,
I have heard of the UK's Draconian import duties. D@mn shame B/C Tarptent is a family owned business (Henry Shires, owner and designer) AND they are all made in the USA, The People's Republic of California to be precise. I know that some Brits are partial the the SCARP 1 and SCARP 2 Tarptents. I have a SCARP 2 as well as the Moment DW, both with the ripstop inner tent. Our fine desert dust blows right through the full mesh inner tents.
Yeah, Hilleberg tents have bombproof material and construction and Tarptents merely use good grade silnylon and nicely durable construction but at more affordable prices for we Colonists. My Moment DW solo tent has been used year around for the past 5 years and shows virtually no signs of wear. But I treat it nicely it and wash it in the bath tub after each summer trip to get the "desert dust" off of it.
Eric B.
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beefy,
I have heard of the UK's Draconian import duties. D@mn shame B/C Tarptent is a family owned business (Henry Shires, owner and designer) AND they are all made in the USA, The People's Republic of California to be precise. I know that some Brits are partial the the SCARP 1 and SCARP 2 Tarptents. I have a SCARP 2 as well as the Moment DW, both with the ripstop inner tent. Our fine desert dust blows right through the full mesh inner tents.
Yeah, Hilleberg tents have bombproof material and construction and Tarptents merely use good grade silnylon and nicely durable construction but at more affordable prices for we Colonists. My Moment DW solo tent has been used year around for the past 5 years and shows virtually no signs of wear. But I treat it nicely it and wash it in the bath tub after each summer trip to get the "desert dust" off of it.
Eric B.
I’ll stick with the msr tent at £200 it’s a steal, we do around 50 wild camps each year and it’s stood the test of time admirably O0
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GUNWHARFMAN
Naturehike tents are available in different colours - grey, orange, & green, though the green appears a bit bright from the pictures on t'Net.
These colours are used to identify different weights, & quality of materials - look through their website for details
I have an Akto, which is obviously a very good tent. It set the standard when it was new, but times move on, and I wondered if I could find something that had a bit more room, and was a bit lighter than 1,7kg without necessarily going really ultralight
After a great deal of Searching & Surfing I bought an MSR Hubba NX Solo. It has a dark green flysheet and I'm quite happy with it. Like any tent, it gets easier & faster to pitch when you've got the hang of it after a few times
I don't use the rather fancy case or valise that came with the tent
I made a simple stuff sac, 38cm long X 15cm dia, and all the fabric fits easily into that, including the footprint. I don't roll anything up, I just stuff it in. This is small enough to carry inside a rucsac or carry on the outside without catching on fences or stiles
the poles & pegs fit vertically down the side of my rucsac
It weighs 1,394kg on my kitchen scales
There are two things that are outside your requirements stated in your post -
There is only the main door; no small rear zip. but it does have tabs in the ceiling for a gear loft, or you could rig up a couple of lines I am 5' 11"/178cm tall, and there is room at my head & feet to store gear & clothing. the porch is easily big enough for my 50l rucsac, boots, stove, pans, & water bags, with space & flysheet clearance for cooking
I got mine from www.elitemountainsupplies.co.uk. Currently they are selling the tent & footprint for £327-25, which admittedly is above your price range; on the other hand, the sewing & general construction is just about the best I've ever seen, including my Akto
i'm sure that if you could see one of these pitched in the flesh as it were, you'd be impressed
But you could buy 3 or 4 Naturehike tents for that - around and around we go!
I've just noticed there is the MSR Elixir 1 which is cheaper but heavier
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Thanks Zuludog. When I bought my present Marmot Pulsar 1P it was because it seemed to be a direct competitor to the MSR at the time. In the end it was the zipped strip on the non-door side (I can keep my Uriwell and other 'bits' outside until needed) and the bigger internal space of the Marmot that won me over and the lower price that won me over. Other than that they seemed to be very alike. Marmot no longer make a one man tent, all they sell now is for 2 people or more. I personally wouldn't go back to buying a Marmot tent because when three of my tent poles broke, the company staff were incredibly unhelpful. No spares were in stock in the UK and the USA site person was downright rude, he couldn't tell me anything about the tent poles that my tent used (or couldn't be bothered?) and he just dismissed me out of hand! All he wanted was for me to buy a new tent.
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I've just remembered.......
Have a look at the Hex Peak V4a. This is, if you like, halfway between an orthodox tent and a tarp. You buy the outer, and use it single skin with just a groundsheet, or an inner as you wish, usually in cooler weather
To get the maximum weight saving it uses your trekking poles
I know a couple of people who use this, and they're happy enough with it
Find it at www.backpackinglight.co.uk (http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk) and videos on YouTube
Backpacking Light have other similar shelters, just Search their website
Yup I like it. Backpackinglight are good on customer service too.
Bob was careful to ask my height before I bought it - I'm 5'10" as it's a bit small for someone 6' but fine for me.
The inner is mostly mesh - but with enough to stop daughts (maybe the bottm foot is fabric).
For me the advantages of such a 1-person tent are:
1) It is high enough in the middle to sit up comfortably - about 140cm (unlike my previous Vango Tempest)2) It's easy to manage the ventilation - just raise the central pole if you want more. When drying the tent in the sun, I've had it so that the bottom of the flysheet is high enough to crawl under.
3) It has an inner tent that should be bug proof4) It seems to shed the wind and indeed light snow pretty well (although you do need to re-tighten the guys in the snow).
5) The price and weight were reasonable6) You pitch it fly first
Without the inner tent, it feels very large inside - I've not slept with that, but have used it to dump stuff when I'm setting uo.
You can peg it out just with the 6 pegs it comes with, but I struggled to get the inner arranged properly with that, so have another five for that, and have put some 3mm shockcord on a running loop on each of the inner tent guys.
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I’ll stick with the msr tent at £200 it’s a steal, we do around 50 wild camps each year and it’s stood the test of time admirably O0
Does your MSR pitch fly or inner first, beefy?
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Does your MSR pitch fly or inner first, beefy?
It is inner first but it can be pitched outer first if you are using the footprint. We have pitched it outer first when it was raining :)
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Thanks April.
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beefy,
I have heard of the UK's Draconian import duties. D@mn shame B/C Tarptent is a family owned business (Henry Shires, owner and designer) AND they are all made in the USA, The People's Republic of California to be precise. I know that some Brits are partial the the SCARP 1 and SCARP 2 Tarptents. I have a SCARP 2 as well as the Moment DW, both with the ripstop inner tent. Our fine desert dust blows right through the full mesh inner tents.
I have a Tarptent Notch ordered from Henry over in California, the original cost was £181 and then a further £38 in import duties. I've added a couple of guys and pegs (steaks) to go with them, the total weight comes to 900g (31.7oz). A little bit over what was stated on their website but not enough to matter.
It's an interesting design, using your trekking poles as support. The outer fly is really good, quick to pitch and very sturdy. I'm not so impressed by the inner "nest". All mesh inner tents are as useful as a chocolate tea pot for us here in wet windy Scotland, so I opted for the half solid option. The bottom half is solid which does help in keeping some of the wind off. The top half is mesh which doesn't help in keeping the drips off. The inner is also awfully narrow being only hip width, this makes it a bit coffin like after a few nights. Consequently I tend to only use this tent for short trips and over nights.
My other tent is a trekkertent Phreeranger http://www.trekkertent.com/home/home/32-phreeranger.html quite a bit more expensive but a lot more room inside.
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Thanks for the info regarding pitching the elixir inner first w/ the footprint. I hadn't realised that!
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Thanks for the info regarding pitching the elixir inner first w/ the footprint. I hadn't realised that!
Do ya mean outer first?
You need the footprint to do this, it comes free with the tent O0
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It is inner first but it can be pitched outer first if you are using the footprint. We have pitched it outer first when it was raining :)
You should have read my post beefy :D
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You should have read my post beefy :D
:crazy2:
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It does throw a question about the suitability of a tent, when it has become so 'flimsy' to gain the title 'lightweight' that it now needs an additional & thicker groundsheet to protect the built-in groundsheet from punctures, adding back 200-300 grams (2-man tent) back into the total tent 'weight'.
Total* weight is a figure rarely provided by manufacturers.
* The figure including everything needed to successfully use the tent.
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It does throw a question about the suitability of a tent, when it has become so 'flimsy' to gain the title 'lightweight' that it now needs an additional & thicker groundsheet to protect the built-in groundsheet from punctures, adding back 200-300 grams (2-man tent) back into the total tent 'weight'.
Total* weight is a figure rarely provided by manufacturers.
* The figure including everything needed to successfully use the tent.
The groundsheet is used to hold the poles in position on our msr tent to stop them spreading if you want to use just the fly sheet
Without the inner, it gives more options, we even sit under the footprint sometimes to get dodge the rain whilst having our lunch, and we've used it as a sun shade too,
Very useful in my opinion and the tent has been very durable, we use tents more than most
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It all turns into a bit of a numbers game with diminishing returns, doesn't it, Alan. Still, I suppose it sells tents....
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The groundsheet is used to hold the poles in position on our msr tent to stop them spreading if you want to use just the fly sheet
Without the inner, it gives more options, we even sit under the footprint sometimes to get dodge the rain whilst having our lunch, and we've used it as a sun shade too,
Very useful in my opinion
I would imagine that all 'fly first' tents can be used without the inner if required too, Beefy.
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I would imagine that all 'fly first' tents can be used without the inner if required too, Beefy.
Msr elixir is inner pitch first O0
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Msr elixir is inner pitch first O0
..as is my ancient Wild Country Trisar. :)
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It does throw a question about the suitability of a tent, when it has become so 'flimsy' to gain the title 'lightweight' that it now needs an additional & thicker groundsheet to protect the built-in groundsheet from punctures, adding back 200-300 grams (2-man tent) back into the total tent 'weight'.
On the MSR Elixir the footprint is optional. You can take it or leave it. We take it to give us options. We can pitch outer first if it is raining. When you wild camp you aren't always going to have a perfect place to pitch. It might be slightly soggy ground, or rough abrasive ground or perhaps you may have to pitch on dead bracken which can be sharp. Bringing the footprint gives us the option to pitch without damaging the groundsheet on the inner. Common sense really, the footprint protects our investment. We always have thought that £200 for the quality of the Elixir is a bargain mind. It is not flimsy at all, it has been a very durable and reliable tent and we would not hesitate to get another MSR tent.
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Msr elixir is inner pitch first O0
The inner of my old Ultimate Tramp (now that's going back some!) was simply held up by a hook at either end and it had 6 pegs around its groundsheet. I often rested under just the fly with everything else packed up, waitng for rain to stop.
The inner on my current Zephyros is such a fiddle to remove and put back that I've never bothered to do it. On a few occasions I've unpegged the front of the groundsheet (only 2, which it shares with fly pegs) and pushed it out of the way to the back of the tent.
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My MYOG poncho also serves as a footprint for both my Laser Comp and Telemark tents.
It also means I don't need a rucksack cover and my jacket can be much lighter.
Overall a weight saver.
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Beefy - yeah I meant I didn't realise you could pitch the elixir outer first with the foot print. ;D Sorry about that!
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COATING SILNYLON TO INCREASE HYDROSTATIC HEAD AND DURABILITY:
I have coated a few of my Tarptent tents to make them more waterproof. When I owned my first TT tent, the Contrail, there were reports that its fly would "mist" inside in a driving rain. This was a single wall tent, BTW. Never had the problem, even in a Yosemite thunderstorm, but being a belt-and-suspenders type I followed the recipe from a BPL post on the topic and coated the fly in the following manner:
MATERIALS:
-> one caulk tube of GE clear silicone caulk
-> one pint of odorless mineral spirits
-> one 6" wide small paint roller tray, roller and lowest knap roller brush
-> one empty pint jar and lid
-> roll of heavy duty paper "shop towels"
-> pairs of Nitrile gloves
PROCEDURE:
-> by volume place 5 parts odorless mineral spirits and 1 part silicone caulk into the pint jar, cap and shake well to thoroughly mix (The 5:1 ratio seems to work best.)
-> pour some of the the mix into the small roller pan and thoroughly but lightly coat the roller
-> roll onto tautly pitched silnylon tent exterior in approximately 12" x 12" areas (15 cm. x 15 cm. ?)
-> immediately wipe down with shop towels to remove excess mix
-> continue coating tent with slight overlap of coated areas - use foam brush for irregular areas you can to coat with the roller
->re-shake mix every 10 minutes
*-> for tent floor (exterior) Place tent over card table so table fits inside with the floor exterior facing up.
-> Roll on mix and wipe down as before. Move floor over card table as necessary to have flat application surface.
-> Second coat may be applied the following day it 1st coat is totally dry.
CLEANUP-> mineral spirits
I did this to my later Moment DW and SCARP 2 tents not knowing Henry Shires had begun making them with an increased coating thickness (higher hydrostatic head) and that coating the flys was now unnecessary. Still coating the floors is a good idea and obviates the need to take a ground cloth along.
Eric B
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I had a laser competition one and it’s good if you can put up with the condensation most night even when well vented. I got tired off the morning drips on down sleeping bag and on me when dressing. I would recommend solar photon 2. It’s as light as a competition, has more space and vents well. I picked mine up on eBay.
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mow,
My Tarptent Moment DW ia shaped like the Laser but is a double wall tent (hence the name "DW"). The Moment DW has upper "eyelid" fly vents and lower end vents plus two doors for maximum venting.
Last year during a deer hunt at 8,000 ft. near Nevada's Mt. Moriah I spent a night and an entire rainy day until 4 PM in the Moment and had no condensation problem. It was cold and at 4 PM I could get out to cook dinner because the rain had changed to snow. Yes, there was some condensation under the fly but not a lot and none wetted the inner tent. I had both inner doors and both fly doors closed during the rain but both end vents were open.
Eric B.