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Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: gunwharfman on 15:59:38, 16/06/18

Title: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: gunwharfman on 15:59:38, 16/06/18
I was reading about the 70th anniversary of the NHS earlier. It made me think about how the NHS has contributed to my quality of life.

Since the 80s I was plauged by hernia failures. Up until 2015 I'd gone though 6 hospital operations, No charge!

In early 2015 I was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer. In April 2015 they took me in, pampered me and used the 'da Vinci Robot' to sort me out. No Charge!

I was home in five days, and hiking again within a month.

I am still so grateful to the Doctors, Nurses and other staff at my local hospital.

In July 2015 I 'bit the bullet' and hiked the GR10 footpath across the Pyrenees' from Hendaye to Banyuls Sur Mere over a 50 day period. On day 17 I saw that I had another hernia (my fault, I thought I was totally back to normal but I wasn't) but I managed to get a truss and then continued my journey.

I reported myself to the hospital on my return to the UK and within six weeks, at lunchtime on a Saturday morning, my hernia was repaired and no problems since. Again, no charge!

I am eternally grateful to the NHS and three years later I am still hiking.

Thank you NHS.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: April on 17:57:00, 17/06/18
Yes, thank you NHS and all of the wonderful doctors, surgeons and nurses who care for us. I've had five operations over the years including the two cervical spine operations I had to have done. The last one has sorted me out, I was losing strength in my legs before I had the op, thanks again NHS, I can carry on hiking  O0
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Ridge on 18:32:40, 17/06/18
I could be writing a reply for this thread all night but I will limit my self to saying that it is an amazing organisation staffed by exceptionally dedicated people.


Of course it has its problems but where would we be without it.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Stube on 21:13:33, 17/06/18
I have a rather more jaundiced view of the NHS - even though my grandfather founded the dental side of the business!

The NHS is excellent for rare or acute problems - terrible for chronic conditions such as rheumatism.

On several occasions I've fallen foul of the four and a half day week syndrome of the NHS - DO NOT fall ill on a Friday afternoon - it will be Monday before you will get treatment.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Ridge on 21:38:36, 17/06/18
On several occasions I've fallen foul of the four and a half day week syndrome of the NHS - DO NOT fall ill on a Friday afternoon - it will be Monday before you will get treatment.
As you say great for rare and acute. We walked in to A&E on a Friday evening and in 30 minutes had seen 3 nurses, 2 doctors and had an x-ray.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: jontea on 21:42:06, 17/06/18
I could be writing a reply for this thread all night but I will limit my self to saying that it is an amazing organisation staffed by exceptionally dedicated people.


Of course it has its problems but where would we be without it.


I also echo Ridge’s post, the NHS has it’s problems but I wouldn’t be hiking now without the thousands of pounds spent on me, let alone the research in new drugs keeping me well.
I owe my quality of life to the NHS so I too thank them.


Just to balance things, I was rushed into hospital on a Saturday morning and operated on late afternoon  :)
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Troggy on 09:22:30, 24/06/18
Some people will always find fault with the NHS, will always say what it didn't do and not mention how many lives it saves, keeps fit and active; and brings into the world; seven days a week throughout the year. I was booked in for an operation to remove a growth, when I got there (9.30 am, the team including the doctor, were sitting at reception waiting for me. There were plenty of other people in reception that were waiting their turn.The op was over in around 20 minutes, about a 10 minute wait at the pharmacy and that was it. They were brilliant.Not only should we the most wonderful national effort there has ever been, outside of war, we should stand up for it, and the men and woman of all grades, who keep it running so well. Sure it has problems and it has limitations but for what we pay for it as a nation, it's the best in the world.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Troggy on 09:23:19, 24/06/18
PS, those operations were taking place on a Saturday!
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: pauldawes on 11:46:51, 24/06/18
I have a rather more jaundiced view of the NHS - even though my grandfather founded the dental side of the business!

The NHS is excellent for rare or acute problems - terrible for chronic conditions such as rheumatism.

On several occasions I've fallen foul of the four and a half day week syndrome of the NHS - DO NOT fall ill on a Friday afternoon - it will be Monday before you will get treatment.


I can relate to practically all the posts on this thread..the NHS does (of course) do wonderful work.


But I can also relate to this one. Parts of the NHS really, really don’t operate well. Apart from management of chronic conditions..where I agree with you (that it’s poor) often admin of just making sure necessary appointments are scheduled is feeble.


 And those cases where there’s a grey area between medical and social care (should a really old confused person be discharged or not?) are often managed with a view to clearing beds, rather than being certain discharged person will be okay at home.


I think knowing that NHS does have weak points can help individuals. I’d advise anybody waiting for an appointment for a scan (or some such) to get on phone and check what’s happening, if appointment letter doesn’t come within a couple of weeks, for example.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: harland on 12:21:22, 24/06/18
I agree that it does a lot of things well so I am  not going to say otherwise however I do believe that it is now a political football and neither side (i.e. labour and conservative) has the will to try and sort it out without just throwing more money at it.  I don't think that it can continue as it is at present funding all and every new medical/social issue. 

There will always be good stories about what they have done well and vice versa but I do wonder whether the staffing levels are correct having seen on more than one occasion (and I know that doesn't prove anything) nurses standing around chatting about their social events for very significant times and not dealing with the patients.  Yes I, or more truthfully my wife, have had excellent treatment when she had cancer although it took the third GP to get her referred to hospital despite horrific blood test results that they should have known that there was a serious problem the two previous GPs thought that it was a virus. Having got to the  right person all went well but it is a matter of getting to that person.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: tonyk on 10:31:41, 25/06/18
Deleted
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: dank86 on 01:43:40, 26/06/18
I'm another with a jaded view of the NHS sadly, trying to get a referral for anything mental health related is almost impossible where I am, the only way I ended up getting help was when I got so bad I attempted to end it, even then it was a long wait to get any real therapy.
I also can't have my gynaecomastia removed even though it's painful and effects me at work, that took almost a year to get a specialist appointment to find out what it was as well, not good thinking it's possibly breast cancer and things moving exceedingly slowly.

My best experience was when I got knocked off my bike, nothing severe just a headache but when I reported to hospital I got seen pretty quick.

So even though there is good I've had significantly more bad with my experiences with the NHS
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: mananddog on 10:44:10, 26/06/18

I have tried not responding to this but after working all my working life in the NHS retiring as a prof and senior bod in the service,  after nearly 40 years it is hard not to.


I have heard all that time how bad we are, what a lousy job we do, how it should all be privatised, etc etc. Patients in the latter years of my practice would come in and say how surprised they were that the staff were so pleasant how they saw me quickly and were pleasantly surprised at the speed and standard of care. They had taken in all the negative press. The fact that we have a staffing problem is understandable given this constant undermining. If you say what you do there is always someone who will stop you in the pub to tell you their bad experiences of the NHS, never their good, and by implication blame you. I am free of most of that now.


Let us consider the public responsibility to the NHS. The real threat to the NHS for all of us is the health behaviours of the UK population leading to obesity, type II diabetes, cardiovascular disease, increased cancer, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and more all of these are avoidable if people took responsibility for their own health but there it little evidence that the UK population is willing to do this- they keep getting fatter and more sedentary. But even there the NHS gets the blame for the public failing to take responsibility for themselves.  Chronic conditions (my area) are, by their nature not curable, they are persistent and require a combined approach to care for the patient and the clinician to maximise benefits. I don't think clinicians are very good at managing this because they have been taught to see lack of a cure a failure and are not geared towards helping people cope, and many of the general public want nothing short of a cure without the responsibility of doing things for themselves.


The NHS is not perfect we all know that, there will always be examples of bad behaviour in a huge organisation and the NHS is the biggest organisation in Europe. If many people in industry do not do their job to 100% the consequences are negligible in healthcare they can be fatal. We spend less on health care than comparable nations, have fewer staff, especially specialist staff as the report published today  highlights. We have a recruitment problem exacerbated by underinvestment in training and a cap on allowing overseas workers.


The NHS is by international standards and comparisons the most efficient health service for health outcomes. Efficient means the best outcomes to the amount of funding and there is the rub. If we spend the average others spend, invest better in the staff, we might start doing better.


Sorry for the rant.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Troggy on 12:42:22, 26/06/18
That's no rant Manandog! Well said indeedI've looked at some of the comments on here and, each to their own of course but in an organisation of medical help that covers the whole country, with so universal a range of diagnoses and treatments it provides, every day; and all day and night I think we've got a marvellous public service. Not like America, where they see if you're insured before considering treatment. I saw today that some Think Tank reckons we have a health service that comes low on prevention of death by heart failure, cancer and strokes.  I've got a feeling that resources has a part to play here/ Staff, how many nurses and doctors are we, as a nation, training and are we prepared to pay for them?Well as far as hiking goes, my exp[erience is that I'd not be doing any hiking, and quite possibly not be here, if it wasn't for the early diagnosis and smashing follow up treatment I receive. So I won't be bounding up many hills I don't think but having a good walk of six, seven or eight miles, maybe more if I wasn't such a lazy [censored], is brilliant. That was and is my experience. As for the nurses standing round talking to each other...well blow me down with a feather! Quite often they don't have a dinner hour , like the nurse who looked after me. She was on for 12 hours, no set dinner time and grabbed a cuppa and eat her sandwiches, in the sort of control room where she monitored me and others throughout the night.If you look on a Friday night and see the characters that stagger in, drunk drugged or both and seeing what our nurses and doctors have top put up with and that's on to of all the areas of social care that the NHS are dealing with.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: harland on 12:46:50, 26/06/18
Not read as "a rant" mananddog.  Well said about people accepting responsibility for their own behaviours instead of them expecting the NHS (taxpayer) to sort the out their indulgencies.  Obviously I haven't researched those attending A&E but it does appear that some/many (?) do not understand "Accident and Emergency".
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: harland on 12:59:38, 26/06/18
As for the nurses standing round talking to each other...well blow me down with a feather! Quite often they don't have a dinner hour, like the nurse who looked after me. She was on for 12 hours, no set dinner time and grabbed a cuppa and eat her sandwiches, in the sort of control room where she monitored me and others throughout the night.
I guess that I hit a raw nerve, not intended but when you see nurses standing around for 20/30 minutes and not dealing with issues then you are likely to have a jaundiced view although accepting that NHS is a valuable service.  12 hour shifts are, in my knowledge, preferred especially at night.  No set dinner time as you say "well blow me down with a feather".  I am happy to fund the NHS but it is not an open cheque book it can always find good ways to spend more money.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: April on 19:57:41, 26/06/18
I have tried not responding to this but after working all my working life in the NHS retiring as a prof and senior bod in the service,  after nearly 40 years it is hard not to.
 

I had no idea you were a prof  :o Thank you mananddog, where would we be without people like you.

You are right, people are very quick to complain but not as quick showing gratitude. We are very lucky to have the NHS, yes it does have problems but I think this is lack of adequate funding IMO.

I am pleased the government has now relaxed restrictions on overseas doctors and nurses working here, we need people from other countries to fill the posts we are struggling to fill.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: mananddog on 07:59:51, 27/06/18

I had no idea you were a prof  :o 



Tips to become a prof -
choose an unpopular area, learn more and more about less and less, convince people to give you research money and hang around long enough. :D
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: happyhiker on 21:22:30, 27/06/18
Two experiences.


1) My aged mother who had dementia was admitted with a broken ankle. The ankle treatment was ok but general care, such as making sure she drank adequately was crap. I made an official complaint and got the usual stuff about "learning lessons" (how long have they been at it?).


2) I needed a heart bypass. The full story is on the blog section of my website but without going into details here, the treatment I had was absolutely fantastic. The situation seems to be, if you are at death's door, you will get great treatment. Anything else, watch out!
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: tenmilesplus on 23:49:16, 27/06/18
At the risk of turning this thread into a NHS experience thread and ignoring the hiking part..

  My view is that the Government actively encourage the population to 'fight' amongst itself and the NHS is the biggest topic 'hand grenade' the Establishment have.. This way the establishment can 'guide' your opinion to be the same as theirs and turn their opinion into your opinion you think you are clever and thus the individual feels they are involved... What the individual should do of course is find out the facts for themselves and NOT listen to what a politician or Media tells you, they just tell you what they want you to know..


There is definitely a North South divide.. Why is it the population of the South won't say hello when out in the Countryside or have half the manners that the folk in the North have but feel as if they can comment on things they think they know about but in reality they know nothing.. I get it every day in my job, ( in Hampshire ) I get called in to fix a dishwasher and instead of just telling me the fault I get told how to fix it, this attitude has been far more widespread since the Devil that is the internet.. Why am I there then ?? Therefore more and more people must think they know what a Nurse or an employee of the NHS does for a job and feel the need to comment as if what they know is FACT and that 'everyone is at it'.. The only Fact is that unless you have done the job you DON'T know and can't comment.. I would prefer people to use their brains more and mouth less, be pleasant, be considerate, treat others as you would want to be treated and NO one is interest in being force fed pointless opinion..

 As far as the NHS goes, if we were all more pleasant, thankful and kind to each other, the folk that have the difficult jobs in the NHS might actually get less stressed.. The NHS isn't failing because the people that work there are making it fail, it's failing because the Government are deliberately underfunding and making it fail so they get the support of the population to privatise it.. We shouldn't let this happen because then the NHS will turn into a Corporate Tax dodge just like the UK Utilities and rail system.. There's a whole other discussion for another time... SUPPORT THE NHS... SUPPORT THE NHS.. SUPPORT THE NHS.. SUPPORT THE NHS.. SUPPORT THE NHS..
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: April on 08:52:43, 28/06/18
There is definitely a North South divide.. Why is it the population of the South won't say hello when out in the Countryside or have half the manners that the folk in the North have

There are some southerners who are ok  ;)

As far as the NHS goes, if we were all more pleasant, thankful and kind to each other, the folk that have the difficult jobs in the NHS might actually get less stressed.. The NHS isn't failing because the people that work there are making it fail, it's failing because the Government are deliberately underfunding and making it fail so they get the support of the population to privatise it.. We shouldn't let this happen because then the NHS will turn into a Corporate Tax dodge just like the UK Utilities and rail system.. There's a whole other discussion for another time... SUPPORT THE NHS... SUPPORT THE NHS.. SUPPORT THE NHS.. SUPPORT THE NHS.. SUPPORT THE NHS..

I might not agree with your generalisation about people from the south but I wholeheartedly agree with your views on the NHS  :)

Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: harland on 09:36:04, 28/06/18
What the individual should do of course is find out the facts for themselves.

The NHS is failing because the Government are deliberately underfunding and making it fail so they get the support of the population to privatise it.

I would prefer people to use their brains more and mouth less, no one is interested in being force fed pointless opinion.
Totally agree with the first and last paragraph but isn't that at variance to the 2nd paragraph. :-\
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: pauldawes on 13:58:03, 28/06/18
Totally agree with the first and last paragraph but isn't that at variance to the 2nd paragraph. :-\


I must admit that I find it bizarre that any comment that suggests NHS is less than perfect, however worded, is taken as inherently rude, or suggestive of a deep desire to privatise it all.


I’d have thought some of the scandals over the years suggest that overall checks and balances leave something to be desired...and that pretending all is perfect will not lead to improvements.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: tonyk on 22:49:01, 28/06/18
Deleted this post as I don't feel this forum is the right place for discussing the NHS.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: tyreon on 19:00:19, 14/07/18

late in the day,I know...is this ghunwharfeman who,later, woz asking for advice as to what next to do when unable to walk...and he's just dun the GR10!! I might be mixed up,and advanced apologies for being too lazy to verify if it woz one nd the same. Man,yer 'aving a larf! You've just done that walk...you've got plenty of miles in those legs yet(if it was you) Yer doing well+++ Keep on keeping on,no worries. Just watch the mileage or terrain,yer doing fine.
Best wishes and good health
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: tyreon on 19:03:00, 14/07/18

just checked. It was you!!


D'ya wanna swop knees!
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: rambling oldie on 14:46:25, 15/07/18
I’ve mentioned this before, and my probs are a lot less than some, but it’s because of an NHS podiatrist diagnosis and provision of inserts to deal with my claw toes and an NHS leg clinic diagnosis and provision of compression tights for my slight vascular difficulties that I’m still able to enjoy leading a bunch of around 20  lovely people for 6 miles around the Hampshire countryside once a month who then join me in a pub for lunch.  
Also still able to whirl Mrs Rambling Oldie round the dance floor in a stylish foxtrot!     O0
The NHS is full of dedicated bloody clever people who just get held back by admin and funding.  

Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Doddy on 11:58:24, 18/07/18

Best to count our blessings. On a trail in the US I fell in with a guy who
after a snake bite [/color]  
was returning to the trail after a spell in the emergency room and hospital, then several days in a Motel resting. Total cost about
$3000 and he was telling me about the overall effect on his life paying for treatment.[/color]  


I did have a bad experience waiting for three hours for an ambulance to take my mother home who was in wheelchair. I was in East Yorkshire and the ambulance service was in South Yorkshire about 90 miles away. Talking to them about the delay unsurprisingly it was evident that the drivers and call staff had no local knowledge for our area and relying on technology to arrange transport. Some local knowledge would have allowed people needing transporting in the same direction could then have been taken together. We were not the only ones waiting.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Jim Parkin on 22:42:38, 24/07/18
I have tried not responding to this but after working all my working life in the NHS retiring as a prof and senior bod in the service,  after nearly 40 years it is hard not to.


I have heard all that time how bad we are, what a lousy job we do, how it should all be privatised, etc etc. Patients in the latter years of my practice would come in and say how surprised they were that the staff were so pleasant how they saw me quickly and were pleasantly surprised at the speed and standard of care. They had taken in all the negative press. The fact that we have a staffing problem is understandable given this constant undermining. If you say what you do there is always someone who will stop you in the pub to tell you their bad experiences of the NHS, never their good, and by implication blame you. I am free of most of that now.


Let us consider the public responsibility to the NHS. The real threat to the NHS for all of us is the health behaviours of the UK population leading to obesity, type II diabetes, cardiovascular disease, increased cancer, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and more all of these are avoidable if people took responsibility for their own health but there it little evidence that the UK population is willing to do this- they keep getting fatter and more sedentary. But even there the NHS gets the blame for the public failing to take responsibility for themselves.  Chronic conditions (my area) are, by their nature not curable, they are persistent and require a combined approach to care for the patient and the clinician to maximise benefits. I don't think clinicians are very good at managing this because they have been taught to see lack of a cure a failure and are not geared towards helping people cope, and many of the general public want nothing short of a cure without the responsibility of doing things for themselves.


The NHS is not perfect we all know that, there will always be examples of bad behaviour in a huge organisation and the NHS is the biggest organisation in Europe. If many people in industry do not do their job to 100% the consequences are negligible in healthcare they can be fatal. We spend less on health care than comparable nations, have fewer staff, especially specialist staff as the report published today  highlights. We have a recruitment problem exacerbated by underinvestment in training and a cap on allowing overseas workers.


The NHS is by international standards and comparisons the most efficient health service for health outcomes. Efficient means the best outcomes to the amount of funding and there is the rub. If we spend the average others spend, invest better in the staff, we might start doing better.


Sorry for the rant.
Well said

Elsewhere I am on a forum with a lot of Americans.  When we discuss healthcare - I point out that the US spends slightly a higher proportion of its GDP on publicly-funded healthcare than the UK.  And that is not available to many, so they need to spend more on private care as well.  And on average, it's nearly the same amount again. 

I can see why those in the US who are prevented from accessing public healthcare would resent their taxes being spent on it, in a way that I don't due to having access to the NHS. 
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Ronin83 on 09:11:28, 25/07/18

I must admit that I find it bizarre that any comment that suggests NHS is less than perfect, however worded, is taken as inherently rude, or suggestive of a deep desire to privatise it all.


I’d have thought some of the scandals over the years suggest that overall checks and balances leave something to be desired...and that pretending all is perfect will not lead to improvements.


Exactly.
I've sat there for almost an hour waiting for a description of an x-ray which was sitting right in front of us, whilst a doctor spoke to his friend on the phone about cricket.
A really nice guy I'm sure, but does he know or care about the state of the NHS? Maybe hes already overworked and grabbing an unofficial break, I dont know.
Also the NHS' procurement is awful. Probably where most of the funds are getting lost. Money goes to greedy suppliers. Welcome to capitalism.
Totally against privatisation btw.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Troggy on 10:19:21, 26/07/18
It is bizarre to comment on some of the criticisms levelled at NHS and it's workers. I don't see having a jaundiced view is anything other than a jaundiced (viewed with jealousy, envy or resentment) view. It would appear that some have a view of the NHS that is over critical whereas others, including many on here, recognise it is in no way perfect, nor are the human beings who work in it; but are very supportive of the organisation and it's staff.

I've had a variety of problems, some more serious than others, in the last few years and each one could have put a spanner in the works as regards going out for a walk, either local or out hiking in the countryside. So my hiking experiences are just that, walking and hiking which I couldn't have continued without the NHS.
Like any other public service, it is asked to achieve impossible targets and to do it on the cheap as well.
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: Troggy on 10:24:52, 26/07/18
Just to clarify I should have inserted quotation marks at the beginning of my last post post "I must admit I find it  bizarre to comment that any suggestion, however worded, that the NHS is less than perfect..."
Title: Re: The NHS and my hiking experiences
Post by: ninthace on 16:26:39, 26/07/18
Went to see my GP about a painful knee. He asked me how it happened. I explained it happened after a steep 3000ft descent on rocks.
“Do you do a lot of walking?”
“About 6 to 7 hundred miles a year, is that a lot?”
He had a grope of the offending limb and its matching companion.
“You’re not going to like the next bit”
“What?”
“Stop”
Clearly a quack. We compromised. He prescribed vitamin I gel 5 times a day.  I carried on walking and didn’t tell him.