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Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: Davidedgarjones on 10:41:40, 26/09/19

Title: OS paper maps out of date?
Post by: Davidedgarjones on 10:41:40, 26/09/19
I'm currently planning a Bleaklow walk which takes in Higher Shelf Stones and Jame's Thorn on the return to Glossop. My OS online map subscription shows a path for this route.
When I look at my latest Dark Peak OL1 paper map purchased last year, I see that it is dated 2015 as the reprint date (with new cover) but it was last revised in 2010. The current map for sale on the OS website has a new/different cover but as far as I can see from the information on the OS website for this sheet no mapping revision date is provided.
Although I have my routes plotted on my phone I don't rely on it and tend to use it for back-up. So I always have a paper map with me marked up with my route.
So it seems that the OS marketing people can get away with a old map boasting a new cover - tempting people to think they are getting up to date mapping?
Sharp practice?
Dave
Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
Post by: richardh1905 on 11:06:20, 26/09/19
I've no doubt that there will be some minor changes, new roads and housing estates in urban areas, and occasionally something of minor relevance to the walker, but the hills remain the same.


18 months or so ago I used an ancient 2 1/2" to the mile map of the NE Lakes, with the contours in feet. Some of the cartography around craggy areas was a bit sketchy, but it didn't stop me having a good day on the hill. And the landlord of the Brotherswater Inn was most interested!
Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
Post by: richardh1905 on 11:08:26, 26/09/19
As to whether it is sharp practice - No, I don't think so. They have to regularly update the maps to reflect the changes that take place in our increasingly urbanised land.


But the only time that I would replace a map is when the old one falls apart.
Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
Post by: Doddy on 11:55:40, 26/09/19
A couple of years back I met a guy in the Lakes and noted his map cover was a bit different to mine, colour I think. We looked more closely and I saw his map was bought for 7/6, i,e seven shillings and sixpence. Still usable -well he did
Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
Post by: ninthace on 12:07:48, 26/09/19
The best way to get up to date OS mapping is to go digital.  The OS app gives you UK cover with latest maps for an annual subscription.  While the hills don't change I have been caught out in mt predigital days by using an old version of a map.  First time was on Dartmoor in thick fog. I hit a reservoir which wasn't on the version of the map I had been given - very disconcerting.  Second incident above Swaledale was less critical - the line of the paths on the map did not reflect reality on the ground, the next version had them in right place.
Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
Post by: GnP on 13:30:44, 26/09/19
The best way to get up to date OS mapping is to go digital.  The OS app gives you UK cover with latest maps for an annual subscription.  While the hills don't change I have been caught out in mt predigital days by using an old version of a map.  First time was on Dartmoor in thick fog. I hit a reservoir which wasn't on the version of the map I had been given - very disconcerting.  Second incident above Swaledale was less critical - the line of the paths on the map did not reflect reality on the ground, the next version had them in right place.
I haven`t checked but do we know if the planned update to the OS app has been successful yet.? They were originally planning to update it last week but the last I heard it should have been yesterday after many delays and problems with the app crashing on some devices.
Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
Post by: ninthace on 13:39:25, 26/09/19

I haven`t checked but do we know if the planned update to the OS app has been successful yet.? They were originally planning to update it last week but the last I heard it should have been yesterday after many delays and problems with the app crashing on some devices.
  This morning the app carried a message saying that V2.0 was now being rolled out.  It is going to be phased.  I cannot get the message to repeat.  I am still getting odd messages about a synchronisation error and a recovery check.  It appears to be working though.  I might try a reinstall later and see what happens.


Edit:  I have just trawled the support page and the what's new page on the OS maps app website - not a peep on the upgrade.  Poor form IMHO


Edit to my edit:  They must have read my post there is a message there now.

Latest updatesNew release Sept 2019 - major update release 2.0
On September 19 we released a core update to OS Maps. Once you have updated to the newest version of OS Maps (version 2.0), you will need to re-download any offline maps.
The biggest change you will see is to the Leisure map layer, which now has an automatic change in map layer as you zoom out. The change to the core will also allow us to add more features in the future.
There has also been a change to users login. You won't see any difference in the app, but it makes it easier for us to manage your account for the future.
Please update your app as soon as possible. Some users find the app will not run after updating. Please uninstall the app and reinstall to resolve this.Known BugsOn Android, the recent update has, for some users, causes the app to close immediately on opening. Deleting and reinstalling the app generally resolves this. Remember to re-download any offline maps you are using
  • Users on versions of Android older than 4.4.4 cannot update their app to the current version. The old version of the app is now no longer compatible with the new database, so many functions will not work. Please update to a current version of Android, as versions prior to Android 7 (Nougat) are no longer supported by Google.
  • Users on Android 4.4.4 may experience crashes on load, depending on the device model and manufacturer - we suggest you update to a newer version if possible.
  • On Android, a route that has already been synced to the app will not be updated if you subsequently edit the route on the web. You can either create a copy of the route and edit it before it syncs, or clear all downloaded routes by logging out and back in to the app. We are working on an update to ensure routes check for new updates.
  • OS Maps is not fully functional on the iOS 13 Beta. As a beta release, you may find various apps and functions do not work as expected. OS Maps will support iOS 13 once it is released as a finished product.
  • The latest release on Android fixed a crash on load issue when the app was in the foreground, improves the accuracy of height gain calculations to match other platforms, ensures your storage space is returned when you delete a downloaded map and clears the screen after you finish saving a plotted route.
    Thanks for all your feedback! We cannot always reply individually, but we do read every one to identify bugs and look for possible improvements. Please let us know of any errors you find.
  • Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: fernman on 13:42:58, 26/09/19
    Going back to the OP, yes, definitely out of date.
    The hills might remain the same, as a couple of you have said, but on my walks in north Wales my navigation is often made uncertain by blocks of conifers on the hills that are not marked on the map.
    It has happened to me in the past and it happened to me a week ago.
    I know such conifers are fast growing and I know my paper maps might be a few years old, but it is plain to me from the maturity of the trees that they must have been there long before the date of my map.
    In fact with my latest walk fresh in my mind I have just now compared the area with the 1:25k map on Bing - which I presume uses the most up-to-date version - and it is exactly the same as my dated paper map, it does not show the bits of forest that confused me. 
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: ninthace on 13:50:10, 26/09/19
    I have that too in reverse - woods that were there but aren't anymore or have changed shape.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: pdstsp on 16:06:58, 26/09/19
    My bugbear with OS maps is the number of paths on the ground which do not appear on OS maps.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: ninthace on 16:24:00, 26/09/19
    My bugbear with OS maps is the number of paths on the ground which do not appear on OS maps.
    Open source maps such as CacheMapsUK or Freizeitkarte show some of them.  Outside wooded areas, GoogleEarth, Ordnance Survey Aerial, ViewRanger Aerial  or Bing Aerial images are best for spotting missing paths. If one uses ViewRanger, GoogleEarth or the OS app, one can plot routes using these paths.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: fernman on 16:52:35, 26/09/19
    I have that too in reverse - woods that were there but aren't anymore or have changed shape.

    That's a bit like the fly walking on a bald man's head. Addressing his grandson, he said "I can remember when there was just a path through the forest here!"
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: BuzyG on 17:16:22, 26/09/19
    When I started back walking, only 5 years ago, I used my original OS map last used for ten tors training in 1981.  Worked perfectly well up on Dartmoor 40 years after it was printed.  Little changes up on the moors.  Though someone did build a wacking great wall and flood much of Bodmin moor in the mean time. One other important thing to note, magnetic North changed much over those years.  Happily I picked up on that one.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: ninthace on 17:34:14, 26/09/19
    I was on an Outward Bound course  in ‘66 running on a bearing on S Dartmoor and ended up in the Avon Dam Reservoir. My map was about 10 years old which was a shame as the dam was finished in ‘57.  Nothing like an unscheduled large body of water to spoil your confidence as a budding solo navigator.  :-\
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: pdstsp on 20:11:13, 26/09/19
    Open source maps such as CacheMapsUK or Freizeitkarte show some of them.  Outside wooded areas, GoogleEarth, Ordnance Survey Aerial, ViewRanger Aerial  or Bing Aerial images are best for spotting missing paths. If one uses ViewRanger, GoogleEarth or the OS app, one can plot routes using these paths.


    Yes indeed, and this is what I do, I just wish OS showed them!
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: BuzyG on 23:05:49, 26/09/19
    I was on an Outward Bound course  in ‘66 running on a bearing on S Dartmoor and ended up in the Avon Dam Reservoir. My map was about 10 years old which was a shame as the dam was finished in ‘57.  Nothing like an unscheduled large body of water to spoil your confidence as a budding solo navigator.  :-\
    Part of outward bound training was based at Cardinum.  Our two day trek  on Bodmin moor took us through the end of what is now Colliford lake. There was also the best asault course I ever had the pleasure of running at Cardnum too.  Over two miles long, with a rope slide accross the full length of the lake North West to South.  No discernable health and safety just simple wrist straps and hold on.  O0 


    I witnessed the harsher side of training there too.  One young lad who's name I will never forget as a result, cracked and stopped on top of a slag heap. Our instructor trigger, went up to check him out.  Unfortunately the lad was past chatting and pulled a knife on trigger, who promptly kicked him most of the way down the slag heap.  The lad was dismissed the service a few days later.  Not how it should ever have been done, but as young lads we just excepted it back then.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: happyhiker on 23:31:20, 26/09/19
    I have used paper maps years out of date and found the main footpaths still relevant. Where they have changed, it has not been a major problem. Having said that, I have just rejoined the OS on line subscription service having given up on it years ago as too clunky. It seems a lot better now so I have high hopes of never getting lost again!
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: BuzyG on 16:16:14, 27/09/19
    I have used paper maps years out of date and found the main footpaths still relevant. Where they have changed, it has not been a major problem. Having said that, I have just rejoined the OS on line subscription service having given up on it years ago as too clunky. It seems a lot better now so I have high hopes of never getting lost again!
    Famous last words and then he was never seen again. ;D
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: robrymond on 20:29:08, 29/09/19
    The 2.0 update is out on iOS and includes zoom down to a very detailed level. Sadly the Android version isn't rolling out to all devices yet.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: GnP on 21:16:37, 29/09/19
    The 2.0 update is out on iOS and includes zoom down to a very detailed level. Sadly the Android version isn't rolling out to all devices yet.
    It appears to be working ok on both of my Android phones here anyway... it certainly does zoom in more...not sure if that was needed though..detail was good enough already imho
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: BuzyG on 21:41:44, 29/09/19
    The 2.0 update is out on iOS and includes zoom down to a very detailed level. Sadly the Android version isn't rolling out to all devices yet.


    Yes I got a text about that yesterday.   Mine can already zoom right in though.  Hard to see how any further zoom could improve things.  I am guessing the current version on iOS, is different.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: Davidedgarjones on 20:53:49, 04/10/19
    Thanks to everyone who replied to my original posting.
    It's clear from the OS website https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2011/07/how-often-do-we-update-our-paper-maps/ that updating of paper maps depends very much on commercial factors, in particular the popularity of particular sheets and their existing stocks of any sheet.
    The OS is a business for which walkers are presumably only a small part of its market, given the extent of marketing digital products to commercial land and property owners

    I think we can all agree that the OS mapping subscription service is excellent and is very good value. I plan all my walks on it and then mark up my paper map with the route (or print a copy). I don't rely on smartphone maps, but carry one as a backup.

    The criticisms of the currency of paper maps, such as forests and deforestation, and the lack of fence boundaries now that walls are no longer being built in mountain and moorland areas, are, I suppose, something we have to live with.
    On the issue of priorities for mapping I think that the footpaths on the ground (dotted lines) could be more prominent than the green-dashed ROWs, but I don't suppose there's any hope of making changes to long established graphics.
    Dave


    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: GnP on 15:08:17, 10/10/19
    Re: the OS mapping app....this thread is quiet, so am not trying to derail the original OP questions.

    I noticed today on my walk that with the downloaded OS map on my phone you can now use 1;50k and zoom in without having to reset to the 1:25K mapping. It smoothly scrolls from 1:50k to the 1.25k map and even further in than before with really great detail. I didn`t think the extra detail was needed to be honest, when I first heard about it . It does give great detail though and stays sharp too. Really nice now..

    There is another button showing on screen with the downloaded map tile, that slides the bottom window out of view completely....Nice...
    The only problem I have now is the recentering button is not working , or the compass screen....Dooh :o >:(
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: Pitboot on 15:14:06, 10/10/19
    I was on an Outward Bound course  in ‘66 running on a bearing on S Dartmoor and ended up in the Avon Dam Reservoir. My map was about 10 years old which was a shame as the dam was finished in ‘57.  Nothing like an unscheduled large body of water to spoil your confidence as a budding solo navigator.  :-\


    "A map is only accurate on the day it is made."


    Army Cadet Force navigation manual.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: ninthace on 15:30:59, 10/10/19
    Re: the OS mapping app....this thread is quiet, so am not trying to derail the original OP questions.

    I noticed today on my walk that with the downloaded OS map on my phone you can now use 1;50k and zoom in without having to reset to the 1:25K mapping. It smoothly scrolls from 1:50k to the 1.25k map and even further in than before with really great detail. I didn`t think the extra detail was needed to be honest, when I first heard about it . It does give great detail though and stays sharp too. Really nice now..

    There is another button showing on screen with the downloaded map tile, that slides the bottom window out of view completely....Nice...
    The only problem I have now is the recentering button is not working , or the compass screen....Dooh :o >:(
      When you zoom the 25k map, there is no extra detail beyond that normally present at any magnification as far as I can tell.  The high zoom levels are useful for micro-navigation such as finding your way through farmyards or being on the right side of the hedge.  I did have a problem with the recentre and compass but that was cleared by a recent update.  My main criticism now is you cannot simultaneously follow a route and record a track - a feature that is available in both Garmin and ViewRanger.
    For info: I am using OS Version 2.0.3.726 on a Samsung A50 running Android 9 patched to 1 Oct 19.  The last OS app patch was released this week.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: BuzyG on 15:32:32, 10/10/19
    Re: the OS mapping app....this thread is quiet, so am not trying to derail the original OP questions.

    I noticed today on my walk that with the downloaded OS map on my phone you can now use 1;50k and zoom in without having to reset to the 1:25K mapping. It smoothly scrolls from 1:50k to the 1.25k map and even further in than before with really great detail. I didn`t think the extra detail was needed to be honest, when I first heard about it . It does give great detail though and stays sharp too. Really nice now..

    There is another button showing on screen with the downloaded map tile, that slides the bottom window out of view completely....Nice...
    The only problem I have now is the recentering button is not working , or the compass screen....Dooh :o >:(
    I noticed since the update I now have access to the entire database too.  As if I paid a subscription.  The thing is I don't pay a subscription. I buy individual OS maps and down load the digital copy to my phone.  I hope OS are not planning to do away with the individual map digital down loads.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: ninthace on 15:42:51, 10/10/19
    If buying a map gives you access to the whole database you are on a winner.  Best not to ask.  I went for the subscription option as it saves buying maps that would just clutter up my shelf as I do all my planning on screen.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: GnP on 16:48:21, 10/10/19
    If buying a map gives you access to the whole database you are on a winner.  Best not to ask.  I went for the subscription option as it saves buying maps that would just clutter up my shelf as I do all my planning on screen.
    :D Oh  yes don`t say too much...
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: BuzyG on 17:07:28, 10/10/19
    If buying a map gives you access to the whole database you are on a winner.  Best not to ask.  I went for the subscription option as it saves buying maps that would just clutter up my shelf as I do all my planning on screen.


    Still love a paper map.  At least with OS there are a finite number to buy for the set.  I really should take some of my old car magazines to the recycling bin though. Or get a larger study.
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: ninthace on 17:51:13, 10/10/19

    Still love a paper map. 
    Yes, there is a pleasant nostalgic element to paper maps.  I used to read them sitting on the loo!
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: GnP on 18:30:10, 10/10/19
    Yes, there is a pleasant nostalgic element to paper maps.  I used to read them sitting on the loo!
    I get a warm fuzzy feeling looking at the maps lined up on my bookcase...
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: GnP on 18:33:45, 10/10/19
      When you zoom the 25k map, there is no extra detail beyond that normally present at any magnification as far as I can tell.  The high zoom levels are useful for micro-navigation such as finding your way through farmyards or being on the right side of the hedge.  I did have a problem with the recentre and compass but that was cleared by a recent update.  My main criticism now is you cannot simultaneously follow a route and record a track - a feature that is available in both Garmin and ViewRanger.
    For info: I am using OS Version 2.0.3.726 on a Samsung A50 running Android 9 patched to 1 Oct 19.  The last OS app patch was released this week.
    I agree not extra detail but easier to see when zoomed right in and it does make a difference, more than I thought it might...at least to my old eyes  :) .I need to see if I get an update offered...
    Title: Re: OS paper maps out of date?
    Post by: Jac on 08:34:01, 11/10/19
    I get a warm fuzzy feeling looking at the maps lined up on my bookcase...

    As I do when I open the drawer in my father's bureau which still contains his maps now together with mine :)