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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: gunwharfman on 15:41:11, 11/10/19

Title: Design faults and failures
Post by: gunwharfman on 15:41:11, 11/10/19
Many gear reports about clothing often highlight the design failure where pockets are situated which no longer works when the rucksack hip belt is tightened over them. I have a jacket like this.

I also have a Vaude hiking Poncho, it was fairly expensive as well. it works well except when I try to put it on quickly and then try to take it off when wearing my 48L rucksack. It's easy to manage if I have no rucksack on, or am just wearing a very small daysack but anything bigger and I'm stumped, I've just never acquired the knack! Why, with all of the designers at their disposal, would Vaude (and other firms) not design their product with a front opening zip just like our waterproof jackets have. I only use my Vaude nowadays when I'm out for a run when its raining, or our for a walk like today when I don't need to wear a rucksack.

I wonder how many other design faults, in our innocence, we have purchased?

Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Man wae a dug on 18:59:55, 11/10/19
I have several pairs of Levis with a glaring design fault so obvious I'm amazed it still happens. They all have a waistband that just will not fit round my waist and button/zip up.  There must be an obvious solution to this. ???


 ;)
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Dread on 20:19:37, 11/10/19
I have the same Vaude poncho I think and funnily enough today was the first time that I tried to put it on with a rucksack on. There's loads of room but it just wouldn't go over the rucksack. There I was in the porch of a vegetarian cafe in New Mills going through all sorts of contortions. The only way I got it on was to throw it over the pack first then wiggle furiously to get my head in. I felt like a right idiot. I decided that Vaude must think that everyone has a hiking partner to pull the back down for them. It's also too long, I'm 5'11" and i was steppng on it going up steps. Kept me dry though.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: gunwharfman on 20:32:13, 11/10/19
The design fault that can be the most niggling for me is when I use a zip and the fabric its sewn onto catches into its mechanism. I've had this happen in my tent, on jacket pockets, at the leg-end of my expensive walking trousers and in my rucksack. The worst was a baselayer I had, with a zip to the neck, the number of times I caught a chest hair in it, made my eyes water! I just had to get rid of it in the end.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: harland on 20:36:11, 11/10/19
The worst was a baselayer I had, with a zip to the neck, the number of times I caught a chest hair in it, made my eyes water!
Just as well it wasn't your trousers! ;D
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: gunwharfman on 20:41:09, 11/10/19
I've always been lucky with those zips!  :)
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Mel on 21:31:05, 11/10/19
Long jackets with no two-way zip.  Great for walking on the flat.  Not so great when you need to climb stiles or even steep clambery bits.  A two-way zipped jacket can be unzipped from the bottom to give you free movement then zipped back again once the obstacle is dealt with.  Plus, it’s easier (warmer/drier) to deal with a call of nature if you can just unzip the bottom portion of the jacket.

Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Sonatine on 19:52:14, 13/10/19
My Marmot precip jacket has, what looks like, an internal pocket formed from the actual pockets. The pocket mesh is sewn on the left and right sides with an opening on top. Sadly there's an opening below too, and I put my beloved outdoor research radar cap in it last week - it's just fallen through and has gone. Gutted. Marmot, align the bottom of the mesh with the coats hem, and sew it up at the bottom too.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: gunwharfman on 20:39:18, 13/10/19
Sorry, Mel can only partially agree with you. Yes, my long coat is great for walking on the flat but stiles are easy, I clambered over two this morning, just gathered up the lower part, got over the stile in the usual way and then once over just let the material fall back to its natural position. Walking uphill can be a bit of a problem, which I'm working on now, its a particular problem when it's raining AND it's windy because my knees keep pushing at the gap in the material and the wind blows the gap open, but I now believe I have more or less solved this matter. I just stuff a pinny of waterproof silnylon over my belt which hangs down to my coat hem level. I tried this again this morning as I walked up a steep hill in the rain and when I got back to my care my legs were dry. I'm still in the testing stage, at the moment my pinny is 14" across, I suspect I need a piece about 20" to be properly effective, that is, it goes across my front from iliac crest to iliac crest. I also have a pair of Amsterdam thigh covers, (they are designed for bike riding) the material covers just the front of my thighs, from the top of my Rab gaiters, to well above the lower zip level of my coat. If I'm going to get wet its directly on my knees. At the moment I'm trying to take advantage of every rainy day to test out my ideas of how to keep dry from rain, I am not trying to solve perspiration from the inside. I hope to be in the Lakes soon, so if I'm lucky to experience rain whilst then I can test my gear in real conditions properly.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: archaeoroutes on 21:40:51, 13/10/19
I've found a near-universal fault with trousers. If only a manufacturer could stop the waists shrinking.
I mean, I buy a pair and they fit brilliantly. Then, over the next few years they get smaller and smaller. Eventually, the waist becomes so tight I have to replace them.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: ninthace on 22:11:21, 13/10/19
I've found a near-universal fault with trousers. If only a manufacturer could stop the waists shrinking.
I mean, I buy a pair and they fit brilliantly. Then, over the next few years they get smaller and smaller. Eventually, the waist becomes so tight I have to replace them.
+1!
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: sussamb on 22:12:59, 13/10/19
I've found a near-universal fault with trousers. If only a manufacturer could stop the waists shrinking.
I mean, I buy a pair and they fit brilliantly. Then, over the next few years they get smaller and smaller. Eventually, the waist becomes so tight I have to replace them.


 ;D
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Boudicca3 on 10:54:53, 14/10/19
I just want to report a major flaw with my Meindl Bhutans - boots that cost over £220 and which leaked at the toe end whilst I hiked the West Highland Way. I reported these to Meindl (via Cotswold Outdoor who merely sent them to Meindl) who  found no fault; I then read on Trust Pilot that 88% of buyers complained to Meindl and Meindl NEVER recognise a fault with their boots these days - so that's the end of Meindl for me... and I've loved them for years (and my feet don't fit Scarpa)


Also bought a Berghaus Hillwalker Jacket this year (I love throwing my money away it seems) - and whilst it has goretex the outer fabric gets soaked and heavy and water pours in through the ends of the arms (where the Gx runs out) and at the bottom so I felt soggy even though I was (mainly) dry as my arms got wet - a lot! I used to sweat in my cheap Regatta but I never had this problem, ironically.


In Kinlochleven, arriving at a camp site on the WHW I was surprised to find hanging in the drying room, Arc'terx, Berghaus, Patagonia, Montane... The only jacket not hanging there was one from a young girl who'd bought her clothes for a few euros from a German flee market. I'm beginning to think all this so-called professional gear is not worth the money.


Things that have never failed for me however are my Berghaus over-trousers. And my... no, I think that's it.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: GnP on 11:12:30, 14/10/19
My Anatom leather boots have started leaking where the leather top meets up with the sole, at the flex point..When I first bought them I noticed how soft the leather felt in that area, as if it was thinner for a few square cm ...so it could be a hide that was thin in one area & missed quality control..I still love them as they are like wearing slippers to walk....its just that they are now wet slippers.


I have a new pair that I bought for when these wore out, and use them now for when it it`s pouring....which seems like every day lately... ::)
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Sleepy on 02:15:50, 15/10/19
Just as well it wasn't your trousers! ;D


I can say with a degree of certainty; that happens once or twice fairly early in life and is virtually guaranteed not to happen from then on  ;D
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: vghikers on 05:47:37, 15/10/19
Quote
...Meindl Bhutans - boots that cost over £220 and which leaked at the toe end whilst I hiked the West Highland Way.

Bhutans for the WHW?  :o You're sure you didn't mean the Alps or the Eiger maybe?  :)

Quote
Meindl NEVER recognise a fault with their boots these days

Increasingly common these days with many companies, not just walking goods.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: hinch184 on 13:37:09, 15/10/19
For me the Berghaus Stormcloud has to be one of the biggest design failures, never have I been so wet from the inside, they claimed it was breathable!  :o



"PROTECTED WITH HYDROSHELL® - Our fully breathable and waterproof Hydroshell® fabric keeps you dry and protected when the weather turns."  
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: ninthace on 13:43:55, 15/10/19
For me the Berghaus Stormcloud has to be one of the biggest design failures, never have I been so wet from the inside, they claimed it was breathable!  :o



"PROTECTED WITH HYDROSHELL® - Our fully breathable and waterproof Hydroshell® fabric keeps you dry and protected when the weather turns."
  Lay it along a line stretched between two trees, guy out the cuffs and jacket corners and sit under it.  Works a treat!   :)
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: hinch184 on 13:57:51, 15/10/19
  Lay it along a line stretched between two trees, guy out the cuffs and jacket corners and sit under it.  Works a treat!  :)


 ;D  Yeah that might be a better use for it! It went in exchange for an M.E with pit zips (I do tend to run hot regardless)
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Man wae a dug on 21:44:10, 15/10/19
I've got a head torch that requires 4 of the smallest, tiniest, teeny weeny, wee screws to be removed before you can change the batteries. I didn't envisage using it a great deal when I bought it so it wasn't something I picked up on, but surely one of those slidey clip things would have been a more practical choice for the battery compartment. ???


Need to add one of those to my shopping list methinks. :)
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: pdstsp on 22:16:37, 15/10/19
Bhutans for the WHW?  :o You're sure you didn't mean the Alps or the Eiger maybe?  :)

Increasingly common these days with many companies, not just walking goods.


 Interested to know why you don't consider Bhutans to be appropriate for UK walking?
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: vghikers on 08:28:11, 16/10/19
Quote
Interested to know why you don't consider Bhutans to be appropriate for UK walking?

In hindsight a little harsh perhaps, considering the clonking monsters you see bending the shelves in retailers, but our winter boots for moderate snow and ice weighed less than those.
For the WHW?. We walked the WHW in January with very light Montrails (~1000g). For most of the year trainers would be fine if only they had enough forefoot cushioning.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: pdstsp on 08:48:22, 16/10/19
Bhutans are my boot of choice at the moment, and I love them to bits! Agree they are not the lightest, but I have found them great quality (so not had any Mendl customer service issues thankfully).  Each to their own, I know.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: sussamb on 12:28:10, 16/10/19
Mine too, my first pair of leather boots for many years.  They replaced a pair of Salomon's which are now relegated to SAR call outs.  Must say I don't notice any difference in weight when they're on my feet, although I know they are heavier. Very happy with them, about 4 months so far O0
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: WhitstableDave on 16:43:53, 16/10/19

Interested to know why you don't consider Bhutans to be appropriate for UK walking?
Indeed, and I'd be interested to know why someone would question someone else's preferences. Except in demanding conditions, I always choose lightweight shoes over boots while my wife almost always chooses boots. My feet can get uncomfortably hot in all but cold weather while hers don't get hot even in summer - we're all different!

Anyway, back to the topic...  :)

I'm not sure about design faults, but I've found that manufacturing faults have worked in my favour more than once. I don't mind them at all!

For example, I returned two pairs of Salomon boots, four months apart, before adding about £20 to the second refund and getting (excellent) Scarpa boots instead. So, in effect, I had the Salomons for 8 months free of charge - not bad for the occasional discomfort of having soggy feet.

More recently, the soles of my Merrell shoes (the best walking shoes I'd ever owned) had worn almost flat. I was still deciding on a replacement when I noticed that the upper on one shoe had started to part company with the sole. So I tentatively asked in Cotswold Outdoor if the shoes were so worn out that fair wear and tear applied or not (which I was expecting). They gave me a full refund that I put towards a more expensive pair of Merrells. Again, months of use for free!  :)
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: vghikers on 18:21:38, 16/10/19
Quote
I'd be interested to know why someone would question someone else's preferences.

It was merely a humorous quip to present a different viewpoint based on experience and (maybe) to make people think. A small attempt to counteract the decades of tired dogma by magazines and retailers implying that stiff heavy boots are necessary.
Many walkers here and elsewhere report blisters occasionally as if they were unavoidable. Since abandoning stiff boots over 20 years ago and using light flexible footwear (current Merrell Moabs with nice wide toeboxes), we've never had a single blister between us or even a hint of one, despite doing 20-odd mile days on occasion.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: ninthace on 18:30:12, 16/10/19
It was merely a humorous quip to present a different viewpoint based on experience and (maybe) to make people think. A small attempt to counteract the decades of tired dogma by magazines and retailers implying that stiff heavy boots are necessary.
Many walkers here and elsewhere report blisters occasionally as if they were unavoidable. Since abandoning stiff boots over 20 years ago and using light flexible footwear (current Merrell Moabs with nice wide toeboxes), we've never had a single blister between us or even a hint of one, despite doing 20-odd mile days on occasion.
I would suggest this is the wrong thread for this hoary old debate.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: vghikers on 18:45:03, 16/10/19
Quote
I would suggest this is the wrong thread for this hoary old debate.
You're right of course, but since no offence was intended, a response was necessary  :)

Here's a sort-of design fault: some Lowe Alpine packs with hipbelt pockets so tiny they won't hold anything (to speak of). I can't remember which one I tried a few years back, but of all my items, the only one that would fit in was a chapstick!. They just don't believe in them, I think they added them to some of their packs very grudgingly when other companies started doing it.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: sussamb on 21:32:12, 16/10/19
Maybe that was the case a while back, my LA 35L, bought 3 years ago, has a good sized pocket on the right, my newer 35:45L has huge pockets on both sides  O0
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: pdstsp on 09:24:21, 17/10/19
You're right of course, but since no offence was intended, a response was necessary  :)



Sorry VGhikers, I wasn't taking offence - just interested in your opinion! 



Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: ninthace on 09:33:28, 17/10/19
Talking of waist belt pockets, my first Osprey pack had zip up mesh pockets that wore badly and the holes started to join up. My current Osprey pack has more commodious pockets that are more hard wearing and easier to access.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: gunwharfman on 09:48:17, 17/10/19
My Osprey Exos waist belt pockets work well, but my rear of the rucksack elasticated pocket is not coping so well, holes are beginning to appear and if stretched too far, or if I try to carry non-soft objects there I'm sure they will just get bigger. I've just rearranged a few items to salvage the situation.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: Owen on 11:13:52, 17/10/19
OMM packs have quite good pockets on their classic 32 sacks. Atom packs sell their clip on pockets separately.
Title: Re: Design faults and failures
Post by: gunwharfman on 16:10:23, 17/10/19
I've had a good time today, experimenting with my cheap (£15) waterproof coat, to make it even more waterproof than it is already. I managed to go out while it was raining because I wanted to test if the modifications I've made to my coat has worked better than the three patches of velcro that was holding the flap over the coats front zip. The Velcro had given up so I bought 3x19mm square stick-on magnets from Hobbycraft to try to avoid using Velcro again and from this one experience, I was pleased. However, what I don't know yet is how good the adhesive is.

I also recently bought a new pair of Berghaus Superlight boots. When I wore them for the first time some days ago my left boot rubbed my heel almost to the point of getting a blister. The right boot was fine and was very comfortable. I ran my finger in the heel area and noticed a small bump under the left inner boot leather and so borrowed a hammer with a round end to it. I bashed the inner heel area few times and then went for a walk, I think I've solved the problem but I will not know for sure until I walk further than I did today.