Walking Forum
Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: Rob Goes Walking on 12:14:15, 05/09/19
-
Was going to post this in the Awning but it gained some length so I gave it it's own post.
I just thought I'd talk briefly about the benefits of group walking over solo walking (of course there are benefits of solo walking over group too). Mel said this has been done before but I wasn't part of it. For me:
Think less.
Watch more experienced people find paths which helps me get better at finding paths over difficult terrain.
Increases my speed over more difficult parts as I don't want to slow the group down.
Less concern over being stuck out in a remote area after injuring yourself.
Bit of social chit chat
Less transport cost
I think it is improving the practical physical skills side of my walking.
Yesterday when scrambling over a nice and relatively safe unexposed bit of ground I was having to slow down to remain at pace behind the leader (though he is many years my senior, he is very fit). I also chose different footholds in places which might seem basic but not having to blindly copy him suprised me. Relatively safe or not the skills are probably transferable to more serious scrambling. It was the longest bit of scrambling I'd ever done and in the wet at that, it did give me some anxiety (and a small thrill for doing it). Injury was a possibility. I'm not sure I'd have attempted it at the start of my walking adventures.
The Wednesday before we went off piste during a steep ascent as the path vanished. The foot placement and speed the leader did the ascent with were superior to what I'd have chosen alone and while I blindly copied them, I think by doing more of this my own foot placement will improve.
In short, it's educational.
-
Educational.
Sociable.
Safer.
Confidence building.
-
Educational.
Sociable.
Safer.
Confidence building.
Nice summary Richard :)
The kind of confidence that comes from doing something and repetition rather than the blind faith variety. Much easier to pick something up when you have someone setting an example.
-
Completely agree Rob. When I started walking again I was a fit surfer. I soon found out that was not the same as a fit walker. Took me around 3 years of regular walking before I could easily keep up with the fitter members of our walking group. I have pushed that on a bit this year with a little fell running. Long-term I doubt my large frame will be happy or reliable pushing at the current rate. I am enjoying being hill fit though. O0
-
BuzyG I bet, you've done really well. I'm looking forward to the joys of being fitter, I'm already enjoying being fitter than I was. Hill fit is the dream...
-
As a side note, this forum used to be fantastic for getting out with others - always something going on in the meetups but not so much so now, anyone know what happened? I know a lot of the bigger characters on here at the time disappeared as a result of banter going too far (To shorten the story heavily) but it's definitely a bit quieter these days
I led a few back in the day and I'll get organising a few more once I'm back up to speed... I'm near 10kg heavier than I was and only been out walking about 5 times over the last two years! So it'll take a little while but I'm keen to get more involved O0
-
That's the problem with banter some people don't know where to draw the line or worse do know and use it to mask a bully.
Great that you're getting walking again. If you can make meets happen even more so.
-
I don't think there was any bullying went on thankfully, as far as i saw a fairly large group's banter amongst themselves just got closer and closer to the bone until someone got offended and said something even more offensive and it tore the forum in two which was a real shame - I wasn't involved at all but, being friendly with plenty on both sides I felt quite awkward and visited less and less and eventually lost interest :-\ at the time though, there were still plenty of meets etc going on - I guess there's just less people here as a whole.
I'm doing my best to keep the motivation going though and hopefully I'll be making a positive contribution again soon :)
-
As a side note, this forum used to be fantastic for getting out with others - always something going on in the meetups but not so much so now, anyone know what happened? I know a lot of the bigger characters on here at the time disappeared as a result of banter going too far (To shorten the story heavily) but it's definitely a bit quieter these days
I led a few back in the day and I'll get organising a few more once I'm back up to speed... I'm near 10kg heavier than I was and only been out walking about 5 times over the last two years! So it'll take a little while but I'm keen to get more involved O0
This surprised me as I thought the meet up sectioned would be busy week in week out with different stuff planned. Shame really as I’d try my best to make s few meets a month
-
On behalf of the cantankerous old socialphobes I'd like to say that group walking/learning suits some and not others. In any group there are those who thrive off the interaction and learn and there are those who go along for the ride and blindly follow, not learning anything. Most of what I have learned about hiking I learnt on my own because I had to. The rest I got from talking to others on the internet and the folk i bump into whilst out. The best advice usually comes from someone on the same walk but coming in the opposite direction. They've just been there.
-
This surprised me as I thought the meet up sectioned would be busy week in week out with different stuff planned. Shame really as I’d try my best to make s few meets a month
Don't be put off.... please don't- it would be great to see it get busier. And for those less confident - you can always ask for a walk to be planned/lead, or for someone to keep an eye on your nav. I don't think I've ever seen it but we're all friends here so don't be afraid to ask O0
-
On behalf of the cantankerous old socialphobes I'd like to say that group walking/learning suits some and not others. In any group there are those who thrive off the interaction and learn and there are those who go along for the ride and blindly follow, not learning anything. Most of what I have learned about hiking I learnt on my own because I had to. The rest I got from talking to others on the internet and the folk i bump into whilst out. The best advice usually comes from someone on the same walk but coming in the opposite direction. They've just been there.
Love that last sentence O0
I've been both, I consider myself as more of a loner really but I asked on here a long time ago for something to work towards and ended up doing my summer m.l. and needed to lead walks to gain experience (for the assessment I never did). I met a lot of great people (and a couple of not so great people), had at least one near death experience and had a lot of fun. I'm comfortable with my own company but, those couple of years were some of my best and I'd love to revisit them :)
On the other hand, being in a group can get you the exercise, views and general enjoyment of walking safely with no skill at all - there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you're happy with O0
-
I agree (of course) with Rob that group walking has advantages...it was my "route" back into walking after a break of many years, a friend persuaded me to join local ramblers group, and we went out with them for three years (before I dropped out).
But in my case, I found my route finding ability increased massively (from super useless to less useless...) when I switched primarily to solo walking.
I found in group walking I just "followed the leader" and didn't take the route in much at all...I would have not be able to do a route solo that I had done with the group. And I think that was probably typical of most of the group members.
-
I can see that group walking has its advantages, especially for a novice, but I think that with solo walking you gain experience from having to think for yourself and by learning from your mistakes.
As a solo walker I feel too that I'm more aware of safety issues than I might be in a group. If there were people behind me I'd feel I'd better get a move on and not hold them up, and this might lead to me being less careful than I am on my own.
-
Strange how were all different, while I do follow the leader it sticks out to me how what he's doing doing differs from what I would choose and I'm pretty confident the parts of it that are superior will influence my own future decisions. I'd be confident I could do the walks we've done solo having done them before.
I think some people are naturally better with spacial awareness though, it's not my strongest suit but I find I can sometimes learn processes/systems by listening to and/or observing people who are better at it.
I think you're more likely to be good at developing these sorts of skills solo if your spacial awareness is also good.
Dovegirl you have a point about safety but I've found I can move faster than I was in a way that is still safe - I wouldn't rush anything I thought was really risky. The group would wait for me.
-
We were all novice walkers once in our lives.
The only way to become more experienced, is to go out adventuring by ourselves, so we can then learn by our mistakes.
If we go out walking in groups, then there is a possibility we pick up ideas and advice that may not be suitable for us, for after all their the opinions of others.
They may be full of merit, but the only sure way to become a better walker is to go it alone, and discover what works for you.
Imagine a total novice being taken by a good intensioned group of experienced walkers over the Cullin ridge on Skye.
I can remember reading a letter in an early trail walker magazine about such an incident, where a group of well intensioned experienced walkers decided to take a total novice over the Cullins, thinking they would enjoy the experience and take home some valued knowledge from more experienced walkers.
The walker soon realised that the walk was way beyond his comfort zone, and experience, but his fellow walkers would not listen, and soldiered on, resulting in the mountain rescue being called out to rescue him.
An extreme example i know, but the only person who can determine what is suitable for them, is the lone walker.
Being cohered into doing a walk that one is fearful of, is never a good idea, and few people are brave enough to admit their weaknesses to a larger group of people.
Ive been a member of a walking group, but much prefer to go it alone, then its only myself i have to answer to, and after all, some people enjoy extreme walks involving high grade scrambling, whilst others would avoid such situations.
Just try and explain to a group of fellow walkers who have chosen a particular route that they have been longing to do, that its not to your liking.
They may suddenly stop asking you out on similar walks.
Solo walking to gain experience on what works for you, and the occasional walk with a group, when the walk is suitable for everyone.
-
We were all novice walkers once in our lives.
The only way to become more experienced, is to go out adventuring by ourselves, so we can then learn by our mistakes.
If we go out walking in groups, then there is a possibility we pick up ideas and advice that may not be suitable for us, for after all their the opinions of others.
They may be full of merit, but the only sure way to become a better walker is to go it alone, and discover what works for you.
Imagine a total novice being taken by a good intensioned group of experienced walkers over the Cullin ridge on Skye.
I know you struggle to make sense at times but that advice is ridiculous. Novice walkers going out on their own are likely to end up in serious trouble. Far better to go out with experienced walkers and learn from them, and they will know how far to push a novice walkers abilities. Novice walkers should go solo once they at least have some basic idea of how to plan routes, cope on the hills etc etc
-
DA wrote
The only way to become more experienced, is to go out adventuring by ourselves, so we can then learn by our mistakes.
This approach is okay in rural areas were there is little risk of injury or getting lost but could prove disasterous in the mountains.In the mountains a mistake could lead to serious injury or death and you are not going to learn much from that.
-
You would certainly learn not to do it again
-
Actually, I think DA has a point. You do learn more from your own mistakes than from other people.
At great risk of sounding a bit luddite, I think we sometimes make a bit of a meal of the business of "learning to walk". It is something we could all do when we were 2 and within weeks were trying to scramble up things our parents would rather we didn't. From then on it goes down hill, until it is something that involves training courses and expensive gear. I know this is an exaggeration, but when I were a lass there weren't forums or courses or decent gear and we all staggered along quite well with our leaky cagoules and rubbish map reading skills, and I don't know the statistics, someone may correct me on this, but I don't think any more of us died.
Now don't get me wrong, I love my posh gear, and I once went on a very useful navigation course. But then I am old, and my resilience in the face of being cold wet and lost is much lower than it used to be. Is this the moment to admit that many years ago I went up Ben Nevis without knowing how many huge cliffs I could have fallen down?
-
I agree..... But, there's always been an element of "rules" that make a lot of sense
Be able to navigate with map and compass; that's not to say you have to be perfect but know reasonably well where you are and be able to figure out a "bug out" route and know which direction you're facing - enough to get by shall we say
Carry the essentials; first aid kit, warmer clothes, waterproofs, torch, batteries, emergency rations (a couple of choccy bars) a bivi bag (orange bin bag kinda thing, doubles as a mat to sit on and a sledge in snow ;D ) and a whistle - read up on emergency signal.
Let someone know your route and when you expect to be back - they're there to raise the alarm if you're not back so not the guy next door who couldn't tell you what day they last changed their underpants.....
I think a couple of weeks "swatting up" and then start simple on ground that you either know or can see is very unlikely to kill you and it's perfectly reasonable to teach yourself.
HOWEVER, If you're more comfortable in groups and feel you're learning from it - that's great! Stick at it, there's no right or wrong really as long as you apply a bit of common sense
-
And make sure your mobile phone is registered with the emergency services. See https://www.emergencysms.net (https://www.emergencysms.net/) for more information.
-
We're all different. I've only made a few mistakes out walking and learned far more from research, other people and going out there and doing it without making mistakes than making mistakes. I'm not afraid of making mistakes or admitting to them either.
I could have learnt everything I've learned about walking so far from walking with the Ramblers apart from navigation because I don't have to worry about it with someone to follow. You're still out there doing it you just have examples to examine and think about that you can compare to what you'd have chosen and think "is this superior? If so, how could I have planned to do that?"
I think I chose the wrong words with "blindly copy", what I really meant is my focus was on a very small area and how the leader selected his footholds rather than planning the route ahead.
People who do things better than you are a helpful learning aid IMHO.
-
I think a lot depends on what you have been doing at work. Some people work in a team, and some like me have worked alone. There was no one to show me how to go on once out on the road, it was up to me to work it out. I had the licence, I was given the keys to a lorry and told there you go, get on with it. No phone in the cab, given the delivery notes, read the map and find the way.
I was a nervous wreck for a while until I built up some confidence. This has held me in good stead for walking on my own. Start simple and learn as you go. This is why I am not keen on groups.
ilona
-
We were all novice walkers once in our lives.
The only way to become more experienced, is to go out adventuring by ourselves, so we can then learn by our mistakes.
...
I agree with DA too, but then again I've done a couple of excellent walks near Dyffryn Ardudwy so I'm probably biased! :)
I walk with my wife once a week, but otherwise I walk solo and have absolutely no desire to go with a group. For me, walking is about going at my own pace and doing my own thing.
I've only considered myself a 'proper' walker for about three years. I began by taking cross-country routes that I knew from my cycling days and then started exploring all those interesting-looking little footpaths that headed off into the woods or across fields. As time went on I went further afield and as my wife began to enjoy walking as well, we started to do walking holidays in those parts of the country that some people seem to think are the only places where 'real' walkers walk ( ;) ).
I really don't think what we do is rocket science. Of course crossing high narrow ridges can be dangerous as well as tricky, but that surely comes under the heading of 'special case' rather than the norm. It might simply be that a forum such as this has a disproportionate number of rugged hillwalkers while, in reality, the great majority of walkers don't spend a lot of time going up and down mountains!
If something other than plain common sense and a desire to explore the country on foot is required for solo walking, then I think it might be a preparedness to overcome natural anxieties - such as trying those twisty-turny trails through the woods, or getting to the other side of a field occupied by scary-looking cows, or walking through a farmyard that you hope is a right of way.
-
There"s absolutely nothing daft about somebody new to walking, just heading off in the car, say to the Lakes or Snowdonia, and walking to their heart's content, by themselves.
Your talking total nonsense Sussamb, your obviously an advocate of group walks, i am not.
I agree it can be valuable to learn from a far more experienced walker, but what if no walker can be found.
Most of us can see the potential danger ahead, and make up our minds on whether the terrain is safe or not, you do not need an expert to point that out to us.
I dislike exposure, so avoid routes with possible technical scrambling involved, i learnt that by myself, by getting into tight scrapes, and self rescuing myself.
When somebody new to walking the great outdoors, invests often considerable money in the right walking kit, one would think or hope that they do some background research on their intended route, their obviously keen to learn their new walking skills.
How long is that walk ? what if i need to make a hasty retreat in poor weather, and if one uses their own transport, where is it safe to leave my car.
You do not need the company of others to gain walking experience, and depending on the persons fitness, walking in a group may not be suitable, having to adjust your walking speed to that of the slowest person.
Its my personal choice, but i much prefer to go it alone, and decide on what i feel comfortable with, be it a ten mile Cwm Eigiau Horseshoe, or a gentle walk around the Southern Rhinogs.
Having to adjust my walking pace to suit others, who may be getting tired when i am still getting into my stride, is more than annoying.
Stopping for a rest break, or for lunch, when it means the walk will have to be arranged to cater for those who must stop for a bite to eat, that's not my thing.
Ive experienced group walks in the past, and if all the participants are of equal fitness or fitter than myself, then i would join in, as i like the challenge it represents.
The thing that i find most satisfying about going it alone, is that i am my own master, if i decide to extend my walk into something far longer and challenging, then its my own decision.
In a group, you always walk at the slowest persons pace, and to suddenly extend a five mile walk into a twenty miler, simply would not happen.
Some crave the company of others, and would never think about going walking by themselves.
To gain experience as a walker can be done solo or in a group, which ever you choose is personal choice.
-
I walk with a Ramblers group and thoroughly enjoy the company and sociability but also walk with a group in the hills who are all of a similar standard, and on my own. It depends on who, where and when.
I do think that a good level of map reading skill is necessary before you go solo in the mountains where as you know white outs can appear out of nowhere. The other thing i think is essential is a good basic knowledge of first aid whether solo or in a group.
-
Actually agree with most of what you said DA. I just pointed out benefits of group walks. There are negatives and benefits to both group and solo walks.
-
I wrote quite a lengthy reply and forgot to "copy" before I clicked "post" and got logged out so, in a nutshell...
Walking in a group is first and foremost a social thing for me.
I have learned lots of little handy hints by walking with a group, not necessarily related to navigating.
Walking in a group has given me the confidence to try walks I might not otherwise have the confidence to do.
I disagree with DA suggesting that a novice walker should attempt the Cuillin Ridge alone.
-
Your talking total nonsense Sussamb, your obviously an advocate of group walks, i am not.
You clearly don't know me or even follow this forum closely, I'm very much a solo walker and have been for many years, but I learnt first how to remain safe on the hills from fellow walkers a long while ago. To suggest as you did that a novice walker should simply head out on their own and expect to learn how to navigate, select safe routes, stay safe on the hills as weather and terrain changes etc etc by somehow absorbing it from the air around them is reckless in the extreme. You may benefit from reading this:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/five-steps-to-starting-hill-walking
-
You clearly don't know me or even follow this forum closely, I'm very much a solo walker and have been for many years, but I learnt first how to remain safe on the hills from fellow walkers a long while ago. To suggest as you did that a novice walker should simply head out on their own and expect to learn how to navigate, select safe routes, stay safe on the hills as weather and terrain changes etc etc by somehow absorbing it from the air around them is reckless in the extreme. You may benefit from reading this:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/five-steps-to-starting-hill-walking (https://www.thebmc.co.uk/five-steps-to-starting-hill-walking)
+1 Sussamb.
I learned from my father and the Scouts. The military also tried but they did not add significantly to my knowledge of land navigation but my maritime and airborne navigation skills improved markedly. The learning by doing approach is based in sound Darwinism - the most fitted will survive but a lot will fall by the wayside.
-
I think we are talking at cross purposes, partly because walking means such different things to different people.
I'm not sure if I know what a 'novice walker' is nor yet what constitutes an experienced one.
For example, I walk over 1,000 miles a year, some on easy coastal walks, some on local hills which is all rough walking with no paths. I have done a fair few LDPs (with one lovely exception without using baggage transfer) and go up a few munros and spend a week in the Lake district most years, and in a good year get some hiking in France. I'm not bad at navigation, but am not invariably exactly where I think I am. My phone is registered with Mountain Rescue, but as there isn't one where I live I don't really think in those terms. I've been doing that for most of my 60 odd years, and I'm guessing that on that basis I am about in the middle in terms of experience as far as this forum is concerned, but I don't really know. Not sure when I stopped being a novice either.
As DA says, a novice walker on the Cuillin Ridge, with or without an experienced group is probably on the wrong place. On the other hand, I don't think you need that much experience of anything to enjoy the Dales Way. Both seem to be within people's definition of walking. So those of us who think in terms of the Cuillin ridge or equivalent have very different opinions to those of us who think of a good walk as 10 miles along a nice path. But both should be valid descriptions of walkers.
-
I think a “novice” walker is someone who is new to the hobby and has little or no skills or experience of “fell walking” or “countryside walking” in areas unfamiliar to them, however long or short or tough or easy that walking may be.
Working on that ^^^ theory, I personally think that walking in the company of more experienced people has its advantages.
It seems a bit of a bizarre “catch-22” situation (based on recent comments elsewhere on the forum) - [a novice walker feels as if they have to] get fit enough and develop their walking skills on their own in order to join a group walk to gain skills and experience.
Surely anyone who wants to walk in a group to gain more knowledge / skills shouldn’t be made to feel as if they’re in some sort of way inferior for wanting to learn from others rather than tough it out themselves? (which is how DA’s posts are coming across to me).
-
Mel you're very tuned into the feelings of others I think based on you noticing these things and taking my self-absorbed comparisons for feelings of inferiority which they could have been. I wouldn't have noticed DA's post could be taken that way without you pointing it out. They certainly didn't make me feel inferior, my self esteem is only really outranked only by sociopaths and narcissists. Nobody should feel inferior for bettering themselves by whatever method they thinks best, providing they're not crushing others beneath their feet and in the context of walking they'll only be crushing the miles.
-
Suggesting that a complete novice should just get into their car and head off into Snowdonia or the Lakes is a bit reckless. I have several times had to assist or dissuade novices without the necessary skills, experience or common sense from getting themselves into quite a bit of trouble. For example, a walker who suffered from vertigo following a boundary, rather than a footpath, straying onto scrambling territory with his 8 year old son; a pair of walkers about to descend Crib Y Ddysgl thinking they were on the Pyg Track; a couple in jeans and anoraks starting to ascend Hellvellyn in what was at higher levels a white out and screaming gale. It pays to learn the basics from someone experienced. I learned in the scouts and then from more experienced walkers. Now I mainly walk alone, but will also walk in groups on occasion. I have also paid back the teaching by taking new walkers into Snowdonia and up Munros. This has included 17 year olds in the Moelwyns and up Snowdon for dawn on the summit followed by a descent of Crib Goch and its north ridge. I definitely wouldn’t recommend doing the latter descent as a solo novice.
-
I think we are talking at cross purposes, partly because walking means such different things to different people.
I'm not sure if I know what a 'novice walker' is nor yet what constitutes an experienced one.
For example, I walk over 1,000 miles a year, some on easy coastal walks, some on local hills which is all rough walking with no paths. I have done a fair few LDPs (with one lovely exception without using baggage transfer) and go up a few munros and spend a week in the Lake district most years, and in a good year get some hiking in France. I'm not bad at navigation, but am not invariably exactly where I think I am. My phone is registered with Mountain Rescue, but as there isn't one where I live I don't really think in those terms. I've been doing that for most of my 60 odd years, and I'm guessing that on that basis I am about in the middle in terms of experience as far as this forum is concerned, but I don't really know. Not sure when I stopped being a novice either.
As DA says, a novice walker on the Cuillin Ridge, with or without an experienced group is probably on the wrong place. On the other hand, I don't think you need that much experience of anything to enjoy the Dales Way. Both seem to be within people's definition of walking. So those of us who think in terms of the Cuillin ridge or equivalent have very different opinions to those of us who think of a good walk as 10 miles along a nice path. But both should be valid descriptions of walkers.
I agree with Islandplodder - and especially about how we're talking at cross purposes.
It does seem to me that whenever someone makes a general point about walking, someone else applies it to hillwalking and sometimes finds fault.
DA said: "We were all novice walkers once in our lives. The only way to become more experienced, is to go out adventuring by ourselves, so we can then learn by our mistakes." I can't see anything in the post to suggest that an inexperienced person should do that adventuring in potentially dangerous places such as mountain ridges, yet many subsequent replies talk about (for example) mountain rescue, coping on hills, and carrying torches.
Speaking as someone who's been learning on the job, I have to point out that going out adventuring is likely to be a gradual process over time (and probably quite a lot of time) rather than someone deciding one day to take up walking and heading off to the Highlands the next!
-
You clearly don't know me or even follow this forum closely, I'm very much a solo walker and have been for many years, but I learnt first how to remain safe on the hills from fellow walkers a long while ago. To suggest as you did that a novice walker should simply head out on their own and expect to learn how to navigate, select safe routes, stay safe on the hills as weather and terrain changes etc etc by somehow absorbing it from the air around them is reckless in the extreme. You may benefit from reading this:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/five-steps-to-starting-hill-walking (https://www.thebmc.co.uk/five-steps-to-starting-hill-walking)
I had a browse - thanks. O0
It does focus on hillwalking though, which perhaps isn't surprising given the title, but I do wonder what percentage of walkers (as in people who do hundreds or thousands of miles a year as a pastime) actually ever walk in potentially dangerous areas - such as remote places above a few hundred metres. That's rhetorical of course because I doubt we'll ever know, but at a wild guess I'd say... a tiny percentage.
Incidentally (and probably irresponsibly in the view of some!), I question the supposed necessity of always taking a paper map (as mentioned in the article). A compass - yes, but a paper map? I took one on a walk a few years ago. It was pouring with rain, I didn't have my reading glasses, and it was useless to me. Yes, a handheld GPS device can malfunction, but if my phone, watch and compass all also happen to malfunction at exactly the same crucial moment, then I'll just have to accept that it's not my day! And (and I'm sure someone can answer this) just what use is a map in the middle of thick woods?
-
Rob, I wasn't referring to you specifically with my comment.
DA can sometimes write some confusing posts which can be misinterpreted - as has been highlighted by the comments on here. All I hope is that anyone new to walking and reading this topic doesn't think their only option is to go out and "learn the hard way" alone. Why? If there are groups available to walk with then there is no shame in joining one, two, three or as many as you like if if gives you the confidence, skills, company and new ideas to get out there and enjoy the countryside, particularly if the alternative is "I want to get out in the countryside but I'm nervous or inexperienced to go it alone so I'll stay home and snort coke instead"
As for paper map in forests WhitstableDave, I may have "a possible" answer... to orientate your map and walk on a bearing of "generally in *that* direction" mainly because forest tracks change and are rarely the same as what's on a map. Of course, you can do exactly the same with a GPS too....
I do wonder if (generally) the advice about having a map and compass could be updated to something about knowing how to read a map and use a compass as these skills are transferable to a GPS. Are GPS skills (uploading a route and following a dot on a screen) transferable to a paper map? :-\
Anyway, back on topic, yes, there are lots of benefits to walking with a group, just as there are benefits to walking alone and practicing things you have learned from others, be that on the internet, from a book or with real, live other people (imagine that!)
-
Rob, I wasn't referring to you specifically with my comment.
Wasn't sure if I was included...
DA can sometimes write some confusing posts which can be misinterpreted - as has been highlighted by the comments on here. All I hope is that anyone new to walking and reading this topic doesn't think their only option is to go out and "learn the hard way" alone. Why? If there are groups available to walk with then there is no shame in joining one, two, three or as many as you like if if gives you the confidence, skills, company and new ideas to get out there and enjoy the countryside, particularly if the alternative is "I want to get out in the countryside but I'm nervous or inexperienced to go it alone so I'll stay home and snort coke instead"
I hope so too and the drugs reference made me ;D I used to think drugs were brilliant but they take the shine off the rest of life, for me at any rate.
I do wonder if (generally) the advice about having a map and compass could be updated to something about knowing how to read a map and use a compass as these skills are transferable to a GPS. Are GPS skills (uploading a route and following a dot on a screen) transferable to a paper map? :-\
Some of it is, you still learn how to read the map symbols and contours as an indication of steepness and later the contour shapes and handrail a bit as you plan the next feature you need to get the GPS out at to plan the next leg of the journey (though I often get it out before then to check how far I've walked/how far to go).
-
Incidentally (and probably irresponsibly in the view of some!), I question the supposed necessity of always taking a paper map (as mentioned in the article).
You're in good company, I haven't used a paper map in years, have a GPS and my phone as backup, never had a backup when I used a map that could have been blown away, left behind etc O0
-
You're in good company, I haven't used a paper map in years, have a GPS and my phone as backup, never had a backup when I used a map that could have been blown away, left behind etc O0
To all those who eschew paper maps, unless you have a very high spec (and thus expensive) GPS receiver, which most walkers will not have, how can you always be certain which side of a wall a footpath is, if it is not clear on the ground?
-
To all those who eschew paper maps, unless you have a very high spec (and thus expensive) GPS receiver, which most walkers will not have, how can you always be certain which side of a wall a footpath is, if it is not clear on the ground?
By the map on the GPS? I clearly don't understand this right, there's an OS map on ViewRanger what's the difference? I've actually made this mistake before but it's because I didn't look at the map properly.
-
Not everybody has Viewranger and even those that do are at the mercy of battery exhaustion.
-
Indeed. If you are using OS maps on a gps device or phone, you have an advantage over the map user. Paper maps cannot be enlarged. The zoom function is very useful in finding your way through farmyards too. Never, had a battery issue, don’t expect to either. I have spares.
-
Not everybody has Viewranger and even those that do are at the mercy of battery exhaustion.
My Samsung Galaxy S10e has held up for almost 8 hours of GPS with plenty of battery to spare in aeroplane mode and I take a waterproof power bank capable of fully recharging it over 3 times.
-
To all those who eschew paper maps, unless you have a very high spec (and thus expensive) GPS receiver, which most walkers will not have, how can you always be certain which side of a wall a footpath is, if it is not clear on the ground?
Same way as with a paper map, but you look at the map on your screen. Incidentally you don't need an expensive GPS to do that, just the correct map :)
-
Not everybody has Viewranger and even those that do are at the mercy of battery exhaustion.
I use my GPS as primary nav aid with phone/ViewRanger as back up. My GPS batteries last around 18 hours and I carry spares. I have a USB stick that will recharge my phone twice. I reckon I'm safer now that when I just had a paper map with no backup if I'd put it down and forgotten it, or if it had been blown away, and so forth :)
-
I surrender.
-
;D
-
My gps has a fairly small screen, so main reason I nearly always carry a map is if I find it necessary (or desirable) to materially alter route when out on a walk...being able to take in a larger area at a glance makes re-planning easier.
And yes..I can easily see even that advantage wouldn’t apply to some one who simply takes out a tablet with them.
-
My gps has a fairly small screen, so main reason I nearly always carry a map is if I find it necessary (or desirable) to materially alter route when out on a walk...being able to take in a larger area at a glance makes re-planning easier.
And yes..I can easily see even that advantage wouldn’t apply to some one who simply takes out a tablet with them.
Having recently upgraded my mobile, I was pleasantly surprised how much can be accomplished with a phone screen by zooming in and out. Last week I encountered a lady who was doing a linear walk with a companion. They had started at opposite ends of a trail but her companion had gone off route somehow and they had missed each other. Although I did not have the appropriate paper map with me, I was able to use my phone in conjunction with the OS mapping app to show her exactly where she was and where her friend was likely to be.
-
Having recently upgraded my mobile, I was pleasantly surprised how much can be accomplished with a phone screen by zooming in and out. Last week I encountered a lady who was doing a linear walk with a companion. They had started at opposite ends of a trail but her companion had gone off route somehow and they had missed each other. Although I did not have the appropriate paper map with me, I was able to use my phone in conjunction with the OS mapping app to show her exactly where she was and where her friend was likely to be.
We will make a OS App convert out of you yet. O0
-
We will make a OS App convert out of you yet. O0
O0 It is my go to navigation tool just after my Etrex (1st choice - dedicated device), ViewRanger (2nd choice - more versatile) and ahead of paper map and compass (4th choice - only if desperate)
-
All you lot should be ashamed of yourselves using tech ;D is there only me who has to rely on paper maps?
-
Paper maps for me even if they are little scraps of A4 ;D .
I couldn't lug my PC all over the countryside, that is where I research. So I am with Pleb, not that haven't tried with GPS, but the mobile phone is a bit of kit I rather leave in my sock drawer, where it went when I retired.
-
All you lot should be ashamed of yourselves using tech ;D is there only me who has to rely on paper maps?
Paper map and compass for me.
Susamb wrote I reckon I'm safer now that when I just had a paper map with no backup if I'd put it down and forgotten it, or if it had been blown away, and so forth
I think in your case you are right.You would probably fall down a hill looking at the map instead of where you are going.At least with GPS you can still see your feet so it does reduce the risk....a little. ;)
-
Susamb I think in your case you are right.You would probably fall down a hill looking at the map instead of where you are going.At least with GPS you can still see your feet so it does reduce the risk....a little. ;)
;D wish I could blame my fall on that but at that point my GPS was firmly in my pocket, MRT took it out when they did their full assessment so I quickly grabbed it and handed it to my walking buddy for safe keeping O0
-
There are 3 things I like about my little electric map reader.
1. It is instantly accessible as it lives clipped to my shoulder harness out of the way until I need it.
2. When I come to a navigational quandary, it shows me where I am and where I have come from straight away so it is a very quick one handed unclip, look, decide, re-stow in much less time than it takes to get the map out and fix your position.
3. If I take a wrong turning, it warns me I am not going where I thought I was.
Most of the time it stays stowed out of the way so I can enjoy the walk. There are other advantages such as giving me an ETA at my destination, current height and elevation profile and a trace of my actual route as a souvenir.
For these reasons, I would encourage any novice walker to learn not only the art of conventional map reading but also the art of using an electronic aid. I know MRTs decry the use of mobile phones but I disagree. Yes, if you set out with a half charged phone using GoogleMaps you are likely to run into trouble but much in the same way as we encourage novices to dress appropriately, to have a map and compass and know how to use them; I believe the message should include take a phone or gps, fully charged, with the right app on board and know how to use it. Modern aids, dedicated or phone based, no longer need a data signal to work and fully charged, should last all day.
-
There are 3 things I like about my little electric map reader...
I agree with ninthace! O0
And if I might add a couple of things about way-finding that I don't think have been mentioned so far...
1. Some walkers use GPS watches. These are great for recording walks, knowing distance covered, etc. but some also have a 'return to start' function. Of course not every walk is a circuit or a there-and-back, but lots are - and in my case probably 99.9%! So if all else fails, a watch such as a Garmin Vivoactive 3 can point the way back to the start (as the crow flies) as well as show the distance.
2. While the watch thing is perhaps a bit specific, this one should apply to anyone on any walk: Having worked out a route before setting off, whether on a PC or a paper map or whatever - remember the basics of the walk! For example, "I'll head roughly south for about 3 miles then go north-west for 4 miles, and so on." Or even, "The top of the big hill I'm climbing is north-east from the start, so I'll be returning south-west." I'll assume everyone carries a compass, but there are other ways to navigate too, such as using the sun or satellite dishes. Just a thought - and I'm not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs!