Another bloody Kinder Scout thread

[genji]

Peak District? Bleak District more like. What a desolate place Kinder Scout is.

Grindbrook Clough was ace. We had a really good time climbing up it. We got overtaken by about 30 pensioners and a few hundred toddlers, but we did a fair amount of pratting about, taking different paths and that. Sadly, the reward after all that effort was Mordor.

Of course, there were contributory factors. Hitting the Peak District again got us really excited, especially driving past Mam Tor and realising the road we were on was the one we were looking at from a Mam Torian ledge last week. As we booted up in the car park at 9am, though, it was spitting, blowing and quite cold. Not a problem, usually, but today it dampened our spirits a little. I'm not sure I'm into Sunday walks, having to go into work the next day. Also, the last two weekends have been easy walks with no Ollie, meaning I used his little Karrimor backpack. Today, with my own rucksack on, my shoulders were knotting like the first time I wore it.

Anyway, the scramble up via Grindsbrook Clough was tremendous - lots of fun and strangely not as tough on the legs as the steep path further down the gorge. Why is that?

At the top, Ollie decided he wanted lunch but it was far too windy and cold. We continued for 15 minutes or so towards Hartshorn until we settled for a grassy bit behind some rocks that afforded a modicum of shelter. After that, we went as far as Ringing Roger, but the whole black grit trudge really got us down, and the path down Golden Clough seemed the only viable escape. I'm not ashamed to say we took it, and went and sat on the Nab for a bit before heading back down to Grindsbrook Booth. So, sorry walking-books: we didn't persevere long enough to fully test out your guide, but the bit we did worked out well.

My legs were knackered on the way down and I'm sure it was mostly psychological. To top it all, in the copse approaching the bridge over Grinds Brook, I completely lost my footing on the muddy steps, landed on my [censored], and continued to slide down another half dozen steps almost crashing into the back of Lai San. It was a tumble, nothing more but, having been beaten by Kinder Scout of all places, I let out a prolonged "fuuuuhhhh", witnessed by people coming towards us over the bridge, and above us on the steps behind. Embarrassing.

First walk with any kind of negativity about it.

We usually just get in the car and drive home after a walk, but today I earned a pint so we stopped off at the Ramblers' Inn. Then we had coffee and biscuits back at the car. It wasn't a rotten day, but I won't be hurrying back to Kinder Scout.

On the plus side, I found a discarded rubber tip for my trekking pole. Win.

Here's some of Lai San's photos.

Off-topic


The slippery bridge of doom


Those were happier days


Kinder's Cambridge Crag waterspout


The scramble


A look back


The final clamber


A look forward


A scary bit


A view


And another


Depressing


A view from the Nab

[PeakDistrictSteve]

Hi genji,

Kinder can be a bit bleak but the rest of the Peak district awaits and its a bit unfair to blanket the whole of the Peak as bleak based on your experience of the Kinder.  

I think most folk head for Kinder because it is so well known. But in fact, at its best, it's a bit dull.  I personally prefer Mam, rush-up, Stanage edge and Alport.

I hope you have or will take sometime to explore the whole of the 'Peak District'.

 

[genji]

Yes - don't take my comment seriously. I couldn't think of something miserable to rhyme with "Scout". We're still in love with the Peak District (fortunately Mam Tor was our first experience; unfortunately today was Ollie's first experience, but we impressed upon him how lovely it is apart from Kinder, and the drive through to Edale speaks for itself). We have no intention of giving up on the place.

Also, the climb up to it via Grindsbrook Clough was brilliant.

[colliecorner]

i must admit i absolutly fell in love  when i went up kinder for my first time,mind i did get lost and so i suppose that left a more romantic image in my head


looking forward to doing rushup edge next though

[Trenchfoot]

Yes - don't take my comment seriously. I couldn't think of something miserable to rhyme with "Scout". We're still in love with the Peak District (fortunately Mam Tor was our first experience; unfortunately today was Ollie's first experience, but we impressed upon him how lovely it is apart from Kinder, and the drive through to Edale speaks for itself). We have no intention of giving up on the place.

Also, the climb up to it via Grindsbrook Clough was brilliant.

Finally got to sneak a couple of walks in this weekend. In my vain efforts to avoid getting too drenched from Saturdays deluge I arrived at the Hope valley a little later than originally planned, I opted to get in the the Hope/WinHill Pike climb, which after the initial leg-deadening clamber past Twitchell Farm proved very pleasant, surprisingly at the top of WinHill pike I soaked up the atmos all my own - the views were simply stunning capturing the Hope valley as well as the reservoirs to the north. On the way down a nice up n over had me not only wet but muddy also, nevertheless this warm up set me up for Sundays walk.

For this I really wanted to clamber up Cave Dale, I've read and seen the photos so this made for a great start. I continued up past the oncoming stream of water, past the gate at the top and further on for a bit before turning right up alongside a steep wall to the dales edge to then hop up and over to Cow Low. This was purely to cut some ground, saving my legs for later. On this section from the start to Mam Tor, I never met another soul - fantastic  , what a contrast to later at Mam Tor and then the ridge. OMG I did'nt realise just how busy the ridge would be! It was like half of the valley were on top, kids, dogs, bikers and joggers. Really good to see a glider circling above as I stopped at Black Tor for a swig and a bite to eat. Continued all the way to Lose Hill before a few more photos and a pleasant descent near to Losehill Hall and Hollowford Rd to Castleton.

So, my first Peak foray and very good it was too.  

[genji]

i must admit i absolutly fell in love  when i went up kinder for my first time,mind i did get lost and so i suppose that left a more romantic image in my head

I think mindset has a lot to do with it and when we were sat in the beer garden yesterday I realised that for some reason I just wasn't up for the walk. A bit of fog and lost bearings may have spiced things up, but it's quite dangerous in some places up there.

looking forward to doing rushup edge next though

Me too.

For this I really wanted to clamber up Cave Dale, I've read and seen the photos so this made for a great start. I picked a hop up and over to Cow Low to cut some ground, saving my legs for later. This section from the start to Mam Tor, I never met another soul - fantastic  , what a contrast to Mam Tor and then the ridge. OMG I did'nt realise just how busy the ridge would be! It was like half of the valley were on top, kids, dogs, bikers and joggers. Really good to see a glider circling above as I stopped at Black Tor for a swig and a bite to eat. Continued all the way to Lose Hill before a few more photos and a pleasent descent near to Losehill Hall and Hollowford Rd to Castleton.

So, my first Peak foray and very good it was too. 

That's sort of the reverse of our first experience last week, and it's a lovely walk. I think the climb up to Hollins Cross from Hollowford Road (as strenuous as it was for me) was an easier choice than your climb up Cave Dale, but worth it if you had Cave Dale all to yourself. It's an excellent first experience and I'm glad we got that in last week before Kinder Scout yesterday.

[Dizzy]

I had a similar experience when somebody mentioning no names thought it would be a good idea to take me across the plateau in the rain  .Sank upto my knees twice before giving up and going back to the edge, now that was bleak.Having said that I love the edges, personally I prefer the western edge ascending william clough from hayfield and passing the downfall.

If you don't like bleak why not head to the dales of the White Peak?Its much prettier and greener there if the bleakness isn't for you.

[mananddog]

I took a girlfriend camping and for a walk on Kinder many years ago; she was not a walker really. Up on Kinder we had a bit of a row - I think she was fed up with the bleakness and the wet. At the height of this spat she stormed off - took about 6 paces and went right up to mid-thigh in a bog. I fell about laughing and she burst into tears. 30 odd years later we are still married, I have been back to Kinder many times, she has not.

[genji]

I had a similar experience when somebody mentioning no names thought it would be a good idea to take me across the plateau in the rain  .Sank upto my knees twice before giving up and going back to the edge, now that was bleak.Having said that I love the edges, personally I prefer the western edge ascending william clough from hayfield and passing the downfall.

If you don't like bleak why not head to the dales of the White Peak?Its much prettier and greener there if the bleakness isn't for you.

Yeah there's tons for us to discover yet. The views of the Vale of Edale were amazing from up there and if I'd planned the walk we did (5.5 miles) I'd've been quite happy. It was just cutting a walk short because we weren't enjoying it left me feeling a bit deflated. We cut the first Moel Eilio walk short because the weather was rotten, but still enjoyed it and felt good afterwards. Kinder Scout was cut short because we just didn't like the environment - nothing really wrong with the conditions - and that made me a bit glum.

Is there much of the Dark Peak that's like that? Mam Tor didn't seem at all grim.

I took a girlfriend camping and for a walk on Kinder many years ago; she was not a walker really. Up on Kinder we had a bit of a row - I think she was fed up with the bleakness and the wet. At the height of this spat she stormed off - took about 6 paces and went right up to mid-thigh in a bog. I fell about laughing and she burst into tears. 30 odd years later we are still married, I have been back to Kinder many times, she has not.

No, I feel a bit like that myself and we didn't get bogged down at all. I'm trying to imagine what circumstances I'd like to revisit it in. Maybe after a dry week on a windless day, with no rush to get home. Probably not any time soon though.

[vghikers]

Peak District? Bleak District more like. What a desolate place Kinder Scout is.

Yes - and it's magnificent in its desolation (especially in winter under snow). It's that look and feel of an alien unforgiving landscape that  makes it so wild and we've had many excellent days up there. I assume you only walked on the well worn and popular edge paths, for the real Kinder experience you should head into the heartland and the peat groughs up to 4m deep, it's one of the best places of all to learn micro-navigation in mist.  Bleaklow is much larger and one of the best for learning large scale navigation, the potential for disorientation and getting into real trouble with the conditions a lot greater.

It would appear that (at the moment) you are in the 'easy path' camp, along with the vast majority that stick to the cuddly parts of the White Peak in the south and the well trodden paths of the Dark Peak in the north. Perhaps you'll grow out of that with experience and acquire a taste for real wilderness, at least try one visit to the summit of Kinder - very few people do!.

[genji]

It would appear that (at the moment) you are in the 'easy path' camp, along with the vast majority that stick to the cuddly parts of the White Peak in the south and the well trodden paths of the Dark Peak in the north. Perhaps you'll grow out of that with experience and acquire a taste for real wilderness, at least try one visit to the summit of Kinder - very few people do!.

That's definitely true. Kinder Scout was our eighth walk and at this point I've no real desire to get into the wilderness. Who knows what experience will bring? I took a couple of tiny steps yesterday (jumped a small gap instead of clinging to the rocks and stepped over a twenty-foot drop to go round a boulder instead of climbing over it - things I'd never have done a month ago), but building up the confidence to judge a risk and the stamina to to be physically able to complete it is slow going from a standing start at my age. It's slowed down further because I walk with my g/f and son and I'm constantly terrified of them being in any danger. I can relax and enjoy a walk on the easy, well-trodden paths.

[colliecorner]

after getting lost and i must admit i scared myself so a few weeks later i met up and did a walk with rangers it was really fun ,got into the wilderness but with someone i knew who could get me off 
the walks are free too so that helps 
http://www.peakdistrict.org/index/visiting/ranger-walks.htm

if not why not meet up with someone from here
honestly its amazing ,maybe i'm just wierd though

but hey we'd all be boring if we were all the same 

[genji]

after getting lost and i must admit i scared myself so a few weeks later i met up and did a walk with rangers it was really fun ,got into the wilderness but with someone i knew who could get me off 
the walks are free too so that helps 
http://www.peakdistrict.org/index/visiting/ranger-walks.htm

if not why not meet up with someone from here
honestly its amazing ,maybe i'm just wierd though

but hey we'd all be boring if we were all the same 

It's more likely me who's weird. Most people seem to like it. I just didn't take to it at all but as I alluded to in my first post, I don't think I had my walking head on yesterday. Maybe I'm distracted by our impending trip to the lakes and any other walk is just filing in time. I think in my mind, Kinder Scout had been blown up to be something that maybe it's not. A climb to a plateau rather than a summit is new for me; the significance of the mass trespass; all the dramatic imagery associated with names like Jacob's Ladder, Kinder Downfall, Ringing Roger, the Woolpacks, The Edge, etc.; the previous week's visit to the Peak District, which was like winning the lottery; all these things led to me having expectations, when I should have gone up without any. As is usually the case, the journey is more important than the destination and the journey up Grindsbrook was a great one for all of us - we loved it. When we got to the top it was cloudy and windy and the environment felt hostile. Then with it being a plateau instead of a summit I felt like I was stuck on it for the next two or three hours.

I'm regretting not finishing it now. We got from the top of Grindsbrook to Nether Tor in no time and that's about half the distance to Jaggers Clough. Then we would have had a much longer walk back to Edale from Backside Wood and that's really what we based our decision to cut it short on, which was daft because it was on low ground and I'm a big fan of gentle countryside ambles at the end of a walk, and we had plenty of food and water for the whole journey.

[Dazza]

There's a lot of people who don't like Kinder, so 'walking head' aside it may just not be for you but I'd give it another chance just to be sure.

Crossing the plateau is an experience and to be honest not one I particularly like. I do it from time to time, but I do prefer the edges.

In a way I'm a little surprised you went east, as that's probably the less dramatic side of Kinder. It's my favourite part because it's quieter but it's not as alien and unusual as the western edges.

If you go again I'd suggest going up Grindsbrook but head west from the top. This will take you through the woolpacks and give you more of an impression of what kinder is like. Especially if you wander to the far western edge for a view of Manchester. You can then doubel back and head down Jacobs Ladder to get back to Edale (there's a farm shop not far from the  bottom as well, so handy for an ice cream or whatever).

One thing you can always expect is that Kinder is windy, being a plataeu with not much high ground between it and the coast tends to mean it's always a bit breezy.

Kinder isn't the be all and end all though. Chrome Hill, The Roaches, Stanage, Burbage, Eyam, Stanton etc are all worth a visit. Not to mention the famous dales and Chatsworth.

Rushup - mam tor - Hollins cross - Back Tor and lose hill is a bit of a classic though. One day I'll actually walk it when the weather is good!

[genji]

Thanks Dazza, and Dizzy, vg-hikers and collie.

We went east along the southern edge because we were following a set route. I thought that was safer for our first visit than trying to make something up. Having read everyone's suggestions though, I'm thinking of going back but to do a different walk, given collie's and manand's enthusiasm.

Up Grindsbrook Clough again. From the top, taking Dazza's advice, we'd head west to the Woolpacks but then about turn and head back to Crowden Tower.

From there, on the Explorer map, there is a path heading NW-ish to Kinder Downfall (recommended by Dizzy). That path, although marked on the map, disappears around Crowden Head area (just to the west of it anyway) on Google's satellite images. Not for long, admittedly, but whether it's visible or not I reckon the cross-country bit will give us a little taste of vg-hiker's Kinder heartland. We might hate it, but at least we'll have seen it. Or some of it.

From Kinder Downfall there's an edge path down to Kinder Low, which should give us some of Dazza's views and the alien landscape (right?).

After that, past Swine's Back, east to Jacob's Ladder and down to the ice-cream vendor (Lee House by any chance? I want to be sure we get this bit right) en route back to Edale.