Walking Forum
Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 11:24:59, 02/10/20
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An almost unanimous vote by Gwynedd Council to introduce the idea of a levy of around £2 for walkers to climb the highest mountain in Wales and England, has been agreed,
The only problem, is that the council do not have the authority or power to carry it out.
Only one councillor out of 59 thought it was not the best solution, to a very acute problem, of unprecedented numbers of visitors wanting to reach the summit of the mountain.
What other mountain in the whole of the Uk, has seen an orderly queue of over a hundred walkers lining up, Everest style, to say they reached the top.
Introducing a Park & Ride scheme has been thought about, but its not IF but WHEN the charge will be introduced.
I have no issues with being charged a small amount, as long as the money, as much as £1m+, was used for countryside management, but as we all know, such revenue, does not always get used or spent on its intended purpose.
For an almost unanimous backing of the pay to climb Snowdon policy, its virtually guaranteed to happen in the future.
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I wonder how and where they intend to collect it, given the multiplicity of approaches, many of which are PROW and, IIRC, much of the mountain is CROW land?
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Without delving deeper this sounds like councillors wasting time debating something they can't carry out - an excuse to get paid?
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Without delving deeper this sounds like councillors wasting time debating something they can't carry out - an excuse to get paid?
Completely agree with this. Just window dressing to make them look like they are 'working'.
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Sounds like an idea but unless they fence the mountain off and have "pay at the gate" entranc turnstiles all over the shop, then this won't happen in our or our kids lifetime. Jobs for the boys sat round a table having coffee and biscuits sounds like
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If I were to express my thoughts about this proposal and the lazy parochial councillors who backed it, my post would be deleted, and I would probably be banned. Suffice to say, there is no way that they will be getting £2 from me; indeed I would relish going on the mountain without paying just to defy them.
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He said "All this land is my master's"
At that I stood shaking my head
No man has the right to own mountains
Any more than the deep ocean bed
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The thing that i find most surprising, is the almost universal decision by Gwynedd council, to back the scheme.
Gwynedd Council and the National Park are universally in favour of encouraging tourism, in al its forms, into this area of NW Wales.
The only problem, is the sheer number of walkers making for the summit, and whether its the result of Covid 19, or some other cause, the sheer number of walkers is becoming a major issue.
Illegal parking, blocking of the carriage, the amount of litter being dropped on the mountain, and a queue numbering over a hundred individuals, just wanting to say they have been to the top.
The current situation is clearly not working, so something has to be done.
Currently they do not have the legislative power or authority, to start charging visitors access to the summit, but if the huge number of walkers continue to invade the mountain, then i can see the council being granted the authority to start charging.
How they will go about it, i do not know, but its been considered, and backed by the Council, and with over 500,000 people setting foot on the summit annually, the income generated, would be considerable.
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As Ninthace asks, how would they go about charging people for access to a public right of way?
..and how will they prevent non-payers from gaining access - 15 miles of razor wire topped fence?
The whole thing is a piece of nonsense, from lazy councillors who should be coming up with some workable suggestions to tackle the issue.
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The thing that i find most surprising, is the almost universal decision by Gwynedd council, to back the scheme.
Currently they do not have the legislative power or authority, to start charging visitors access to the summit, but if the huge number of walkers continue to invade the mountain, then i can see the council being granted the authority to start charging.
I foresee that the courts would be very busy!
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Let's say the charge was £2, then i could not see many walkers going out of their way, to avoid paying such a small sum.
A lot of the visitors are just eager to reach the summit, and most of them will use the designated paths.
If the charge is acceptable, and not excessive, then there would be few walkers who would avoid paying it.
The excessive £10 to park at Pen Y Pass car park, does not seem to deter many of the walkers who use it, so if there was a guarantee the charge went towards path maintenance, and other uses, then most of us would pay it.
Its the thought of being charged to use a Public Right of Way, that most of us find unpleasant or unacceptable, but Snowdon is almost unique in the British Isles, in that the sheer number of visitors to its summit is becoming an overwhelming issue and problem.
If the charge is eventually introduced, and its a small amount, no more than £2-£3, then its a small amount to enjoy a day in the hills.
Its just the thought of it, that we find unacceptable.
We do not begrudge, paying the parking charges at the designated car parks, which in itself, is almost a charge to access the mountain, as parking in and around the mountain itself, is a challenge.
When virtually the entire council, of all 59 members have decided that a charge will be introduced, once the power to implement is granted, its almost guaranteed to go ahead.
How they will go about it, will be a challenge in itself, but there was only one councillor, who decided not to vote on the issue, the rest of them passed it.
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Let's say the charge was £2, then i could not see many walkers going out of their way, to avoid paying such a small sum.
This is probably true, but if the point of the charge is to reduce the numbers of walkers on Snowdon, then by the same logic it wouldn't be enough to do that either.
I can't see how it could be enforced. Would there be ticket inspectors at the summit to make sure everyone has paid? Would they be there all day and all night, every day of the year? What could they do if someone fails to produce proof of payment - send them back down? :-\
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Is it even legal to charge the public for using a public right of way? If it was to become legal it would open the doors for every landowner in the country to start charging walkers for crossing their land.Its appalling that a council is even thinking like this.
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Underground multi-storey car park at foot of the Pyg and double decker cable car up the mountain at £25 a pop.to include 1 hr on the summit (charge for overstayers). Hey I could get a job on the council!
I was joking but they started it O0
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The whole thing is a piece of nonsense, from lazy councillors who should be coming up with some workable suggestions to tackle the issue.
I agree; I think it's a daft proposal.
My wife and I have been up Snowdon just once - on a nice day in October two years ago. We went up the Rydd Dhu path and came down on the Ranger path. Except near the summit, we saw perhaps 10 people on the ascent and about the same on the descent. The summit was quite busy but we went straight to the trig point to get our photos with no problem at all.
I think they're making a mountain out of a molehill.
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I do wonder where it will end. Funnily enough I was looking at the line of people on Striding Edge the other day, thinking it looked like the queue for a theme park ride and wondering how long before it becomes a ticketed tourist attraction, with safety ropes and compulsory helmets, and opening and closing times. And maybe a zip wire to come back down... ::)
I wonder also whether introducing a charge will counterintuitively increase rather than decrease the number of visitors; I seem to remember there's a phenomenon where putting a price on something (or increasing the price) can increase the demand by making it seem more prestigious and desirable.
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It is strange that on my last visits to the summits of Snowdon and Hellvellyn I saw nobody outside the small group I was walking with. The time of day / week and weather conditions make a big difference to how many people are around..
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I wonder what percentage of visitors to Snowdon are already paying to park somewhere before their walk?
I doubt an extra £2 on the price of their day is going to put many people off considering the amount many will have paid in fuel, food, parking etc.
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It's not the £2 that makes me incensed about this proposal, it is the principle. How dare they suggest charging people to gain access, via a public right of way over CROW land, to go to the top of an iconic mountain?
If approved, this would set a very disturbing precedent, which I have no doubt that grasping unscrupulous landowners would be only too happy to follow.
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Sounds like a simple case of a tax on climbing the mountain. That I have to disagree with in principal, regardless of the price of admission or the circumstances. It could be the start of a slippery slope, in the UK. There is a railway up it that carries 75000+ people up each year too. Alas Snowdon is a victim of it's own raw beauty and the success of those happy to exploit it.
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Perhaps it might be better to charge American dentists and other rich right-wing gun enthusiasts say £10,000 the right to track and shoot a walker on the massif? This would reduce the number of visitors significantly (one way or the other). Any Instagram pictures would be required to pay a royalty to councillors whiskey and cigar fund.
Parking would then be free.
It would certainly pique the interest of those no longer thrilled by Crib Goch.
Radical problems require radical solutions in the post-Brexit world. Job done.
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It will be hard to make some people pay. The national trust own land and they charge for carparks. I have no issue but many an idiot will park on the roadside and block the traffic rather than pay. There's a carpark up north always has issues with this.