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Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: RogerA on 16:05:37, 08/01/18

Title: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: RogerA on 16:05:37, 08/01/18
I've had a look through the forum and can see threads about how to respond to sheep, cows and horses. I can see threads about whether to dogs with you on a walk.

I dont see one about how to deal with dogs that you come across.

The reason I was looking is that over the Christmas break I was out walking in Derbyshire, in an area I dont know very well but was keeping to well marked public footpaths staying on marked routes between yellow waymarkers.
On one stretch of footpath over a field I could hear a lot of dogs barking, I was for a minute worried that I'd come across a hunt pack but it wasnt enough for that so carried on over the field. When I was about 1/3 of the way over I looked up and saw 4 unaccompanied dogs clambering over the wall at the other end and starting to run toward me barking as they came (so maybe 200-300m away). One was large and brown (I want to say Rottweiler - but I've honestly no idea) two middle sized and the other poodleish.

Now I've never previously been worried about nor by dogs, I'm not nervous around them but this put the willies right up me.

What I've asked myself over and over since is what I should have done next?

What I actually did was, heart racing, turn on my heel and walk very swiftly back the way I came then when I was out of the field, over a wall and round the back of the wall run for it until I couldnt hear the barking any more.

Has anyone had similar experience? What should I have done?
I know I'm now never going to walk that route again but should I now report to someone in case it happens to someone else?
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: sussamb on 16:20:51, 08/01/18
Difficult to say without having been in that position.  I know I can, and have experience of, dealing with dogs with all sorts of aggressive levels, so even if I was in your position would probably have reacted differently.  However given what you say I suspect you took a sensible and safe course of action  O0
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: ninthace on 16:23:59, 08/01/18
I usually bend down and make friends with the dog(s) - avoid sustained direct eye contact though- that is a threat and if they feel scared they may bite in panic.  Most of them are all bark and no bite; the barking is often territorial and if you keep moving they will eventually give up thinking they have done a good job.  Sometimes you have to be quite firm with them though.
I did have one that actually adopted me and accompanied me on the rest of my walk.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: pauldawes on 16:24:28, 08/01/18
I’ve had a couple of similar experiences.


On first one, a massive dog of a breed I’ve never seen before jumped over a large wall as I was on a public footpath near a house. It was patently going to “have a go at me”...so I scouted area for an “equaliser” and fortunately found a stone about size and weight of a brick. The dog sensing trouble, promptly turned back, and jumped back into its own garden.


On second one a Rottweiler chained up in a farmyard snapped its restraining chain, came at me at a rate of knots, head butted my thigh (not a bite but distinctly unpleasant), then retreated about three foot, and appeared keen to have another go. Again on a public footpath. Loud shout  got farmer to come over...who was in total denial about what his dog had done.


Both times I reported to local ROI officer concerned.One paid a visit to dog owner, second dead batted it completely, telling me to report incident to police. I didn’t, but maybe should have done.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: jimbob on 16:41:42, 08/01/18
In Spain the locals told me to pick up a stone if a dog came charging at you and to use it if necessary. They said the dogs were so used to getting a stone thrown at them that the act of bending down was enough to stop them in their tracks. In Britain I have used a similar bluff as most dogs are taught to chase something thrown so throwing a branch or large rock MAY distract them enough to turn their apparent aggression into a game they understand. However when it is a pack they obey a different  set of rules and you could quickly become their prey. I think in the circumstances  you did the correct thing since thinking logically, time was not on your side. It is in a way quite alarming how quickly the friendly pooch can revert to the pack predator in the wrong circumstances. A lot of careless owners are not aware of just how dangerous their cuddly pet can be.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: barewirewalker on 16:56:08, 08/01/18
I wrote something of an experience mine a few years ago, don't suppose there are many around today, who might remember this topic (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8798.0). Before it terrifies anyone it was written more out of humour than outrage.


Go back a few years and a few more quite colourful encounters with dogs have been recorded.


My natural instinct would say 'shoot them', having started my working life in agriculture, however as I gave up all my gun licences, not having touched any of my guns in more than 20 years, I can no longer carry out this threat, which I would be more likely to be tempted to shoot a landowner. Nasty inbred breed, with a more cowardly method of trying to preserve their territorial notions that canines.



Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: gunwharfman on 17:49:15, 08/01/18
As a long term off road jogger I've tried to appeal to their better nature, tried commands of "sit", kneed one or two in the chest, even punched one on the nose last year, but like us, everyones an individual. I have my likes (setters and dogs like them) and my dislikes (alsations and other butch dogs, plus Jack Russels) but mostly its the owners that wind me up, especially when they shout "its alright, he/she wont hurt you", but I know full well that they are not in control of events at all.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: pauldawes on 18:23:32, 08/01/18
As a long term off road jogger I've tried to appeal to their better nature, tried commands of "sit", kneed one or two in the chest, even punched one on the nose last year, but like us, everyones an individual. I have my likes (setters and dogs like them) and my dislikes (alsations and other butch dogs, plus Jack Russels) but mostly its the owners that wind me up, especially when they shout "its alright, he/she wont hurt you", but I know full well that they are not in control of events at all.


Has general standard of dog training gone down?


We had three dogs (not at same time) as family pets when I was growing up. They all walked on lead without pulling, they all walked in close control without a lead, when allowed to run free, they all came back immediately when called. None of them ran up to strangers, barked outside, or was aggressive.


And that was the norm for where I lived.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: BuzyG on 21:30:11, 08/01/18
I've had many an unplanned run in with dogs out walking.  There is normally an owner some where in the vicinity but several times not seen. 

Worth a mention.  A pack of wild dogs on the out skirts of Toulon.  They right put the willies up me.  My main thought was rabies, at the time. I walked away from them and they followed me for far too long for comfort. 

At the opposite end of the spectrum. one of the range dogs up on Kitty Tor  appeared from nowhere, jumping up in front of me and barking.  Happily I worked out instantly what was going on, so changed my direction away from the range boundary I was close to.  Several seconds later a, sleepy looking female solider, called the dog back to station and offered a rather unnecessarily apology. We all need our sleep after all.  ;)
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: fernman on 22:05:12, 08/01/18
During my day walks I've encountered quite a few large and boisterous dogs off the lead in woods, but nothing worse than that. I always hope I will be able to use one of my walking poles to good effect if it is necessary.

I was bitten once when I was working, it was by a little terrier that rushed up behind me and nipped me behind the knee before I realised what was happening. It was quite painful and left an enormous grey bruise from the top of my calf to halfway up my thigh.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Lemmy on 07:59:34, 09/01/18
Sausages!  ;D
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: sussamb on 08:12:21, 09/01/18
I was bitten once when I was working, it was by a little terrier that rushed up behind me and nipped me behind the knee before I realised what was happening. It was quite painful and left an enormous grey bruise from the top of my calf to halfway up my thigh.


Little dogs are the worst  >:(
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 10:55:06, 09/01/18
I am more a cat person myself, and do not like dogs that much, ,as i  have been bitten four times, so i treat most dogs with extreme caution.
Back as far as 1971, a very large Alsatian ran out of its driveway in Cathay's in Cardiff, and bit my arm causing significant swelling, and requiring hospital treatment.
I still have the scars just above the elbow to remind me of the attack, its something you do not forget.

Friends of ours, in Pentyrch outside Cardiff, owned two Dobermans, one of which went for him in no certain terms, when he went to try and remove his feeding bowl, a thing he had done many times before.

They had owned the Dogs for several years, with no worries, but after that event, it was re homed.


I do not allow dogs to jump up on me, even in friendship, and i show in my body language that their affection is not welcomed.


Once you have been bitten, once or several times, you treat every dog with caution.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: RogerA on 11:06:32, 09/01/18
thanks for your replies - good to know it wasnt just my unjustified nervousness - a bit worrying that so many have had problems with dogs though.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: barewirewalker on 11:25:00, 09/01/18
Apart from my rather flippant previous suggestion on how to deal with unaccompanied dogs, I think it is worthwhile mentioning that irresponsible dog ownership, is perhaps one of the greatest obstructions to walkers be able to get the full access to our countryside.



Has general standard of dog training gone down?


Back in the 1950-60's when the Definitive map was being compiled, walkers were few and countryside dwellers were mostly farm workers and people who made their living from the land.


Then the Landowner's reluctance to allow access to the countryside was manifested in the 'Corruption of the Definitive map'. Nowadays this manifestation comes in many more diverse forms. The lobby group that opposes the fair sharing of the countryside between the required production of food and other raw materials and and the ever expanding Leisure Industry, is the Country Landowner's Association (CLA).  As walkers, we are concentrated into an access network that had been planned for a national population of the 1940's and immediate post war years.


There are more dog owners, rural dwellings are now 'outer suburbia', the percentage of irresponsible dog owners has increased with that population increase and perhaps by another percentage beyond that. The CLA latch onto any excuse to exclude people from the countryside, so the threat that dogs pose to livestock is a favourite, it gives the owners of land the excuse to blame access for this threat, so it is the farmer, who feels the threat.


Unlike the CLA the farmers main lobby group the National Farmer's Union (NFU) does not have a published policy on access, as far as I know, despite the fact that the Access Network is the Best Public Relations Tool the agricultural industry has for its products. Sadly the NFU do not tell their members this, walkers are losing a lot of credibility when being blamed for the actions of irresponsible dog owners.


Where I used to live when I managed a farm is a village at the east end of a hill, open access, at the west end the hill is adjacent to the suburban sprawl of our county town. The few real locals left in my old home village connected with farming call the hill 'Dogcrap Hill'.


The more we as walkers are seen as an inconvenience or even a threat in the countryside, the more true farmers will join the CLA, who claim they protect the interests of property owners on the countryside, what their national policy on access does not say is the growth of the leisure industry increases the rural economy, tons of meat and cereals go into dogfood.


Time for a stroll, perhaps I will go down to the local park and kick a dog or go and irritate the local gamekeeper, by telling him that his predecessors, 50 years ago would have shot or poisoned any 'inappropriate dog' that was in or near his bailiwick.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: jimbob on 14:20:33, 09/01/18
BWW not sure I follow your arguments. There were more people living and earning a living in Rural UK in the 1950/1960s than there are now. In general Dog ownership in the UK is in decline according to RSPCA & Association of pet food manufacturers.

 There have always been irresponsible dog owners. Dogs left to roam, which has never been only the fault of "urban classes", cause far more damage to livestock in the UK than any other animals  inc. Humans).

As a former farm manager you would know this and yet you are shunting the argument against irresponsible dog ownership onto the CLA and their actions in respect to rights of way. I would argue your connection is very tenuous .

Dogs are a dangerous beast if not properly socialised and trained. Many farm dogs, gamekeepers dogs and hunting dogs are rarely , if ever socialised with humans, in general. Most are extremely territorial, and they would just as soon go for a CLA member as an ordinary hiker.

I am a country boy of the 50s and was born on a farm, my dad worked his whole life on farms, as did my brother, and indeed my first job was on a farm.

I think the OP did the right thing. He was not sure what to do so he retreated whilst keeping an eye out. He had enough worries at the time without adding another in the shape of one of your infamous CLA members bearing down on him.

There is little any person would do about walker trespass, it is a civil offence and would cost the plaintiff far more to persue in law  than  they would receive by way of compensation if no damage occurred. However a dog owner allowing a dog to roam freely is committing a criminal offence which the police do act upon. (Dog control orders can be issued under section 55 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005) They don't even need to be violent , just roaming around.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 15:02:53, 09/01/18
I love my dog, he’s a lovely natured  collie. I don’t expect everyone else to love him, but should anyone harm him, then they need to be a fast runner. There again he is never unaccompanied, as for cats they kill too many garden birds for my liking  ::)
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Welsh Rambler on 16:50:38, 09/01/18
I normally carry a walking pole when walking on my own and find that just raising your arms and shouting will stop an aggressive dog advancing. If it doesn't deter the dog then the sharp end of the walking pole will. It's the irresponsible owners who watch the dog snarling at you and say 'he won't hurt you' that encourage me to want to prod the owner as well.


Regards Keith
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 17:45:49, 09/01/18
The thing that annoys me the most, is those dog owners who fail to recognise when their pet is on the borderline or being vicious or aggressive.
Its mostly towards other dogs, but some dogs show aggression towards members of the public, and some owners either through ignorance, or not wanting to acknowledge the fact their loved pet is a problem.

I hate it when their only argument is "Their only Playing with You" when its clearly obvious there's aggression being shown.

Dogs have an acute awareness that some people show genuine fear in their presence, some act on those instincts, but thankfully the majority of them are placid.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 18:24:18, 09/01/18
I find some people are particularly unpleasant, especially unaccompanied  ;)
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 18:27:39, 09/01/18
Ive nothing personal against any dog owner, except that ive had quite a few scary experiences with dogs, mostly when i was young.
Like ive said, i much prefer the company of cats.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 18:39:15, 09/01/18
Enjoy your cat(s), mine was just a general comment not aimed at any cat owner, might I suggest a bell though  :)
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: tom83 on 21:26:25, 09/01/18
I hate irresponsible dog owners, especially ones who have no control over their dogs. Dogs are pack animals, and require discipline from a leader, be that another dog or a human being. Without discipline, they see themselves as the leader and do as they please. The amount of people who don't understand this though.


I love dogs, all dogs, I have a chocolate lab and a Dogue de Bordeaux, and they both know who is boss, even at 10st, the Bordeaux is scared of a raised voice from myself or my wife.


From personal experience Ive found that dog walkers who walk their dogs out in the countryside, generally have better behaved dogs. As opposed to people who don't bother, or take them 5 minutes around the block.


Im very much in favour of the introduction of dog licenses. If you want to own a dog, you have to apply for a license, your dog must be chipped, and if you walk your dog, you have to have your license on you during the walk. If your dog is aggressive towards a person or another dog, this could cause you to lose your dog license and without a license, your dog.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: barewirewalker on 12:08:49, 10/01/18
BWW not sure I follow your arguments.


Understandable as their are a few loose threads in my post, perhaps written more from a flippant point, but with a serious undertone. Perhaps not the place to go too deep, but those pondering the OP's query might see the connections.



As someone who has been a member of a LAF for 5 years;

As a former farm manager you would know this and yet you are shunting the argument against irresponsible dog ownership onto the CLA and their actions in respect to rights of way. I would argue your connection is very tenuous .


This link is not as tenuous as you might think and IMO has significant historic and current connections to the motives that have and might affect the development of our access network.


As a former LAF member I know how difficult it is to keep the minds of a mixed group on the interests of walking and access, when their has been a 'dog' incident, and the landowners are milking this public opinion to full effect.


"Oh you walkers don't know the damage a dog can to livestock" is a sneer towards the my stance for access not to be linked to public misbehaviour.


Yet I have to meet that person who has, spent several days doing close to major surgery on injured animals, spent months nursing a flock of pedigree sheep back to full productivity and then been reminded of their injuries every year for more than a decade as I sheered my ewes and followed the scars across their bodies.


Neighborhood ownership of dogs kept, to give property owners reassurance in the hours of their absence, was the cause of the incident I referred too. 3 Alsatians on the loose at night time.


Also a friend of mine was accused of having allowed his aged Alsatian and terrier to roam and kill three sheep. His family suffered the loss of their pets, the insurance loss and the villages condemnation for 5years until it became known that farmers own dogs had killed his sheep and the farmer had sneaked into the village and opened the gate to my friend back yard.
So that he had a valid claim on his insurance for the loss of the sheep.

Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: RogerA on 13:01:34, 10/01/18
I'm so sorry ... I didnt mean to start a debate ... I was only asking whether there was a better course of action I should have taken when faced with several unaccompanied dogs running toward me across a field barking.

I think if it happens again (and I hope it dosent) I'll probably do the same - turn and walk swiftly away.
It is however unsettling to hear that it seems not uncommon to have problems with dogs.

I'm hoping that if they're being territorial and just defending their farm or whatever then moving away gives them what they want and they'll leave me alone. My worry was that by turning and moving away I'd be giving them something to chase, or acting in a subservient way to a pack leader and might be putting myself at more risk ... who knows.

My secondary question as to whether I should report the incident - I guess I probably should but wont. What would be the nature of the complaint anyway - I saw some dogs and they barked at me - it sounds pathetic and dosent reflect the real fear they caused.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: jimbob on 13:05:11, 10/01/18
Well at least you show that loose dogs are a danger. The wherefors and whatsits of ownership do not take away from the fact that it was dogs that did the actual damage. In some hill farms that damage could over a number of years make rearing uneconomic.  Also loose dogs worry walkers as can be seen in this topic.By worry I mean the anguish type of worry rather than the physical.

They worry walkers just as much on legitimate well proven rights of way at least as much on those you tirelessly fight for.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: jimbob on 13:19:01, 10/01/18
RogerA I believe you did the right thing on that occasion.  Discretion  is always the better part of valour.
On a flippant note maybe the sausages could be carried so that they can be used tactically  as a distraction .
Loose unsociable dogs do worry me a lot.  More than cattle , a lot less than loose ponies and horses. Never yet been chased by a cat!

Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: RogerA on 13:30:41, 10/01/18
cats? my neighbours cat was seen chasing & herding cows in the field behind our houses last week ... go figure
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 13:47:01, 10/01/18
You only have to pay a visit, to a large car scrapping business, to see how dangerous some dogs can be.
I remember visiting one in West Wales, many years ago, the two Alsatian dogs locked in a back room of the premises, sounded terrifying, and no doubt, were there to protect the premises.

Large dogs, in particular, scare me, they can sense a persons fear, and some use it to their advantage.

Thankfully the vast majority of dogs, are well behaved and well looked after by their owners, but as we all know, some are far more dangerous than others.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Owen on 15:09:41, 10/01/18
You only have to pay a visit, to a large car scrapping business, to see how dangerous some dogs can be.


I remember back in the early nineties going to a scrappies in Birmingham to pick up 25 tonnes of scrap. His huge Rottweiler was straining on his chain snarling and barking like mad at me. I said something like "shut up you silly be**er" and he rolled onto his back so I could tickle his tummy. 


I used to go there quite often and he always remembered me.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: tonyk on 15:12:40, 10/01/18
I'm so sorry ... I didnt mean to start a debate ... I was only asking whether there was a better course of action I should have taken when faced with several unaccompanied dogs running toward me across a field barking.

I think if it happens again (and I hope it dosent) I'll probably do the same - turn and walk swiftly away.
It is however unsettling to hear that it seems not uncommon to have problems with dogs.



 Next time walk slowly backwards,raise your hands above your head and if they get too close roar back at them.Running fast with your back to them makes you look like prey.The majority of predators attack from behind and will rarely attack face to face.Sometimes the dog won't get the message so the best thing to do is to kick it as hard as possible in the flanks until it squeals in pain.If you fall on the floor the dog will try and get to your head so use your feet to ward it off. Dave Turton 9th dan,who is one of the most experienced unarmed combat instructors in Europe,covered this topic in an article many years ago but the article was withdrawn after he got hate mail from animal rights cranks.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: barewirewalker on 17:23:54, 10/01/18
I'm so sorry ... I didnt mean to start a debate ...


Do not apologise Roger, it should be I doing that, I think you have plenty of advice to your real question, the virtual question that hangs in the air when this subject gets discussed here always manages to shake out a few lines of interesting debate, which tends to make this forum both friendly and interesting. The link I provided may be quite nostalgic for some of the older members, contribution from members passed on or even away.


If I hunt back I might find the topic or post, where I mentioned being fanged in the left buttock by a one eyed, three legged collie in a Welsh farmyard, whilst being told by its owner that was a harmless fool of a dog, with ambitions of eating the postman's van or the tyres.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: lostme1 on 17:30:03, 10/01/18

If I hunt back I might find the topic or post, where I mentioned being fanged in the left buttock by a one eyed, three legged collie in a Welsh farmyard, whilst being told by its owner that was a harmless fool of a dog, with ambitions of eating the postman's van or the tyres.

Looking forward to reading this post.

Om a more serious note in the 1980's I was chased across a field by 3 alsatian dogs.

I had walked passed the garden they were in and as I as walking across the field beside they were barking like mad. I thought OK they were just doing their job but as the barking got louder I turned round to find they had escaped and were chasing me across the field. Various thoughts went through my head at the time but all I could do was carry on walking as I did like the idea of making a stand on my own in open country.

They eventually gave up but later I saw a policeman and told him about the incident as it had scrared the hell out of me. Apparently I wasn't the first and he said he would speak to the owners.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 17:31:45, 10/01/18
Who will ever forget that scene, in the gripping film "Bronson" where he fights these manic dogs, intent on tearing him to pieces.
An interesting book i used to own, but sadly went missing ages ago, recounts the activities in Rome's famous Colosseum, it was one of those magnificently written penguin paperbacks.
Afternoons entertainment following the mid day spectacle, of the torture of political prisoners and Christians, was to dress women and young children in animal costumes, so that large savage dogs could devour them.

Is it any wonder that mans best friend, can be a very unpredictable creature.
Dog aggression for some reason, is becoming an increasing problem in the UK, mostly due to the increased popularity of banned breeds, but responsibility clearly lies with the owner.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 18:33:16, 10/01/18
Jeez this is turning into an anti dog thread slowly, some people have to tell everyone the same thing countless times, but hey we should be used to it. On the flip side I’ve never had a bad experience with dogs, maybe it’s because I’m a responsible owner, maybe I’ve been lucky who knows. Of course there are bad owners and dangerous dogs, like there are bad owners of any animal and bad people too.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Mel on 18:46:52, 10/01/18
I'm so sorry ... I didnt mean to start a debate ...


That, more recently, is one thing this forum excels itself in, whether intended or not  :(


.... shortly followed by it going (sometimes wildly) off topic .... usually  ::)




Back to your original question, not sure what I would do - I've only ever been chased once "many years ago".  Luckily I was on a push bike and could pedal much faster than the dogs could run!!  Still scary though and I do wonder what they would have actually done had I simply been walking or couldn't pedal fast enough  :-\

Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: pauldawes on 18:48:42, 10/01/18
Jeez this is turning into an anti dog thread slowly, some people have to tell everyone the same thing countless times, but hey we should be used to it. On the flip side I’ve never had a bad experience with dogs, maybe it’s because I’m a responsible owner, maybe I’ve been lucky who knows. Of course there are bad owners and dangerous dogs, like there are bad owners of any animal and bad people too.


I don’t think it has (turned into an anti-dog thread)..it’s turned into an anti-badly behaved dog thread, with practically all of accepting that most of the bad behaviour is down to poor training.


How do you define a bad experience with a dog?


I ask because I suspect many dog owners define that as a fairly extreme incident..biting for example.


But for that size-able minority of people that don’t like dogs, a bad experience may be an over-friendly dog jumping up and making contact..especially if that puts mud all over clean clothes. Or a dog making threatening growling sounds, etc.


If you really haven’t seen stuff like that frequently I’m surprised.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 19:03:00, 10/01/18

I don’t think it has (turned into an anti-dog thread)..it’s turned into an anti-badly behaved dog thread, with practically all of accepting that most of the bad behaviour is down to poor training. - I took the trouble to re read the whole thread and disagree with you, not a problem that's life.


How do you define a bad experience with a dog? - Why should I explain my own definition? I stated I haven't had a bad experience that's it.


I ask because I suspect many dog owners define that as a fairly extreme incident..biting for example. - You suspect? A bit of an assumption really.


But for that size-able minority of people that don’t like dogs, a bad experience may be an over-friendly dog jumping up and making contact..especially if that puts mud all over clean clothes. Or a dog making threatening growling sounds, etc. - Now I do get this bit, not everyone likes dogs, even friendly placid ones jumping up however friendly they are, I do understand that, but I also find it a little difficult to associate that with being a bad experience, however we're all different so point taken there.


If you really haven’t seen stuff like that frequently I’m surprised. - I don't recall saying I haven't seen stuff like that.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 19:19:17, 10/01/18
I recon a bad experience, is when your playing timidly with friends, and a very large Alsatian suddenly appears at speed, from the corner of your eye, and sinks its large jaws into your arm.
Even though it happened as far back as 1971, i can still visualise it happening, with the blood and totally unprovoked aggression shown by this dog.
I can even remember the dogs name,  Queenie.

I have the scars still plain to see on my left upper arm, to remind me.


Its no wonder i am afraid of large dogs, even those that obviously show no aggression, as really unpleasant past experiences stay with you for life.


I still find it difficult to pat or stroke a dog, even one on a lead that is obviously well trained and docile as anything.


Getting bitten by a dog, is something that lives long in ones memory, its not nice, and it hurts, and blimey is it scary.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 19:27:59, 10/01/18
I certainly wouldn’t disagree with the above as a bad experience, poor Queenie (just kidding)  ;)
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 19:33:08, 10/01/18
Slightly off the subject (SORRY) i even remember where and when i was bitten viciously by a horse.
When animals show aggression, it somehow sticks long in ones memory.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 19:34:38, 10/01/18
 ;D
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 19:42:20, 10/01/18
I recon i must attract the curiosity of ill tempered beasts.
Four dogs have had a go at me, two of them with real intent in mind.

A large horse, in a field near my mothers old home in Llanfair PG on Anglesey, sinked its molars onto my right arm, not as painful as a dog bite, but still nasty.

A very large sow in an agricultural show in South Wales in the late 1970s, was in a show pen with several of its piglets.

Foolishly i put my hand ever too close, pointing to my mother at the lovely little piggies, the sow missed my hand by inches, THANK GOODNESS MUM PULLED MY HAND AWAY QUICKLY, i cannot imagine the consequences if my hand had remained there.

Is it any wonder i am timid with animals.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: pauldawes on 19:46:27, 10/01/18
Slightly off the subject (SORRY) i even remember where and when i was bitten viciously by a horse.
When animals show aggression, it somehow sticks long in ones memory.


Most traumatic experiences stick long in the memory.


It’s most likely an evolutionary defence mechanicism to help to avoid really dangerous situations.


A similar example is any food eaten (or drink imbibed) just before a really serious bout of illness: it’s hard to eat (or drink) the stuff again afterwards.

One minor example..I used to love pickled onions, but eat a few before a major bout of illness. Never been able to face eating one since. My logical mind knows the pickled onions had nothing to do with the illness, but my subconscious mind doen’t agree.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Jac on 09:17:49, 11/01/18
Most traumatic experiences stick long in the memory.
It’s most likely an evolutionary defence mechanicism to help to avoid really dangerous situations.

A similar example is any food eaten (or drink imbibed) just before a really serious bout of illness: it’s hard to eat (or drink) the stuff again afterwards.

Agreed, I couldn't drink gin for nearly fifty years  :(
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: barewirewalker on 10:03:23, 11/01/18
Agreed, I couldn't drink gin for nearly fifty years  :(


Now that is serious.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Ridge on 15:45:47, 11/01/18
Agreed, I couldn't drink gin for nearly fifty years  :(
Wow, that's some hangover :buck2:
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: ninthace on 16:03:33, 11/01/18
As a student I consumed far more whisky than was wise one night then went for a walk the following day not feeling at all well. To give my headache a rest I stopped on a bridge over a beck to watch the soothing waters rush by and ended up hanging onto the edge convinced that the bridge was hurtling upstream.  Didn't touch whisky for years after that!
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: barewirewalker on 16:59:49, 11/01/18
Now we've got onto the hair of the dog, I call that really airing the subject  ;D
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: fernman on 17:35:16, 11/01/18
That, more recently, is one thing this forum excels itself in, whether intended or not  :(

.... shortly followed by it going (sometimes wildly) off topic .... usually  ::)


There was this cat I saw on a walk once....

 :D
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: pauldawes on 17:39:30, 11/01/18
As a student I consumed far more whisky than was wise one night then went for a walk the following day not feeling at all well. To give my headache a rest I stopped on a bridge over a beck to watch the soothing waters rush by and ended up hanging onto the edge convinced that the bridge was hurtling upstream.  Didn't touch whisky for years after that!


That is very similar story to one of my friends. He drank large quantities of whisky to celebrate his 21st.


Feeling very ill, he still got out of bed next day, and tried to plough a field. Having got to other side of field, turned round and noticed furrow wavered 50 yards from the straight. Went back to bed, and stayed there for over a day.


Many years later still not drunk any more whisky..but not averse to other strong drink.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Doddy on 20:13:51, 11/01/18

[font=]My worst experience was with five Pyrenean Mountain Dogs in the French Alps, they guard a sheep flock and are raised with the flock and not trained to many commands, if any. They surrounded me and whichever way I went one of them lunged. Eventually the shepherd shouted to keep walking but that was easier said than done. They were distracted by him and I moved off very slowly turning around and around. Fortunately the night before in the mountain hut I had seen a leaflet on the dogs so I did know what they were when they ran up.


On my  Pennine Way at trek I was surrounded by several sheep dogs, puppies some of them and one of the dogs nipped me. Later I was more worried about infection than the wound. I knocked at the farm door the fellow said it wouldn't be his dog-the dogs were about 10 metres away at the time. I said I would hardly make the effort to ask him about it if it hadn't happened. I reported it to the Police so it could be logged in case it happened to others.The PW went right through by the farm and passing the dogs was unavoidable.
Over the years growing up we had three dogs and enjoyed then immensely so I appreciate them and don't fear them.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: robb on 16:31:07, 27/02/18
The best way I feel is to 'name and shame,' you can argue with people who have their dogs off-lead but it's like talking to a brick wall until they're called out on it by social-media means. I always keep my dog on lead and it's mind-boggling as to how many idiot-owners you see letting their dogs off lead just because they're out on a field, the law states that in a public area a dog must be controllable at all times and on agriculture land with livestock this is especially true.


I came across this village idiot today whose golden-spaniel was running around my leashed dog and causing aggravation, uncontrolled and rather than being apologetic the idiot was having a go at me  ??? 


https://imgur.com/a/8CRWF



Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 19:19:41, 27/02/18
The best way I feel is to 'name and shame,' you can argue with people who have their dogs off-lead but it's like talking to a brick wall until they're called out on it by social-media means. I always keep my dog on lead and it's mind-boggling as to how many idiot-owners you see letting their dogs off lead just because they're out on a field, the law states that in a public area a dog must be controllable at all times and on agriculture land with livestock this is especially true.


I came across this village idiot today whose golden-spaniel was running around my leashed dog and causing aggravation, uncontrolled and rather than being apologetic the idiot was having a go at me  ??? 


https://imgur.com/a/8CRWF (https://imgur.com/a/8CRWF)
I don’t keep my dog on a lead ALL the time, but I do when it’s appropriate, so I must be one of your idiots, having said that I pity your dog if it’s on the lead all the time as you said.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: robb on 19:28:35, 27/02/18
He's well fed, he's well exercised and happy wagging his tail. The reason he's always on a lead is because he's a rescue dog and because of his past-history is not 100% trustworthy to be controllable off-lead with commands. And because where he's walked is land where livestock (sheep and horses) graze, it's a public right of way but by-law ALL dogs should still need to be leashed when out in this kind of environment.


Even though I know the landowner I still set an example by following the law. Unlike the majority of gormless idiots on the same field who let their dog/s run-loose and often any command for them to 'come back' simply gets ignored. Its not only about the lack of control, it's about the lack of respect for other people (dog walkers, walkers, cyclists, the farmer) when these people think that the field is there for their own personal use.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 19:37:04, 27/02/18
You seem to be quite insulting towards other people there,  but whatever turns you on I guess. I won’t justify myself to you or anyone else, because I know how responsible I am as an owner while still allowing my dog the freedom he loves. Have you considered walking elsewhere? Maybe where gormless idiots don’t roam  :)
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: robb on 19:49:11, 27/02/18
So because a handful of people can't take the responsibility for keeping their dog on a lead, even when it's written into law that they are required to do so, i'm suggested to walk elsewhere? We walk all over the countryside without any problems as the majority of people also leash their dogs out of courtesy. It's quite amusing as to when you get closer to civilization there's always the village idiot whose letting their own dog/s run loose and suddenly because i'm there i'm in the wrong for telling them to keep their own dog/s under control.


I'd say 90% of owners are responsible and know that any kind of dog, no matter how much social training it's had, is still a animal and must be treated as so. When you become complacent and think of the dog as a child is when the problems begin. I have just as much right to walk my dog on the field as anyone else, without fear of either of us being attacked, intimidated, or threatened.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: phil1960 on 20:05:38, 27/02/18
Oh dear you really do have an issue don’t you  ::)  I was merely suggesting if it bothers you that much what other people do in your area, then you have another option, walk elsewhere, or don’t and put up with it, makes no odds to me. But calling people juvenile names will only get you wound up, not them. Not every owner who has their dog off the lead is an idiot, it’s all about being responsible and appropriate.
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: gunwharfman on 21:08:40, 27/02/18
I've had my fair share of dog problems. I try SIT!, I've tried growling at them, putting my rucksack in between them and me as a shield (was effective!) I've done the occasional kick, I've poked a couple of times with my hiking sticks and last year I even punched one on the nose! More of a panic on my part but it worked. One bloke I met on the Pennine Way even suggested I should try weeing on them. Never had the nerve to try that! A couple of years ago I met a bloke in the Lakes who had bought a lazer pen to try to disperse cows, told me he hadn't tried it on dogs, again never tried that, seems a bit high tech to me?

My primary gripe is with owners, I've rarely met an unnacompanied dog. Why do some owners think their dogs speak English, I've seen no evidence of it. I really hate it when they shout from 200yds back "Its allright he/she won't hurt you" One owner shouted that to me when her dog, a red setter jumped up and gripped my wrist between his teeth. I kneed him in the chest and he let go, the lady then blamed me! I just walked off and ignored her.

I had a situation in Kent a couple of years ago. I was on the footpath, this blokes fence backed onto the field I was crossing, he let loose 5 small dogs who charged at me and tried to nip at my ankles. When I shouted out a protest he just went back into his garden and left me to it. When I finally got over the stile onto the road I was furious and marched up to his front door and banged the door with my hiking stick handle. He never answered! I complained to Ashford Council but they did nothing, one of their pals no doubt?

I agree with Doddy, those French sheep dogs can be really scary, I've only met one at a time, five would really freak me out!
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: sussamb on 21:10:19, 27/02/18
... because where he's walked is land where livestock (sheep and horses) graze, it's a public right of way but by-law ALL dogs should still need to be leashed when out in this kind of environment.


That's not exactly right.  Dogs may have to be under close control, but that's different to saying they must be leashed
Title: Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
Post by: Zizag on 21:57:38, 27/02/18
I was on a local walk ,going across way marked routes and came to an area where a guard dog lives In enclosed area of fence and walled  farm premesis  .
As I have walked The same route hundreds of times .
 I have always been wary of this large Alsatian guard dog used to always come up to the fence in a threatning manner barking .Even when you don't see it .
As soon as you open the Swing gate It sets it off >:( .


Well this particular day coming out of the field got to the swing gate  And very quietly opened It and went through the other side    With my back to the swing gate Just delatching quitely I suddenly detected a Presence behind me .
  :o It was this very large flipping Alsatian
  :-[  Lunged at me Growling and barking It was that close I could see Its Uvula as Its fanged mouth opened ready to clamp on me


.  ;)  In Nanoseconds In was through the gate Asap .
 The Alsatian surprised me as it was out of its boundary of the house garden.
 In the lane where all walkers go past .
 So I waited for It to go back In .
But It kept coming back and forth to the gate  . 
I decided to retreat and go back ,and take another route.
 . I think I was very lucky to get away without been attacked and bitten .