Altberg Tethera Wear

[kinkyboots]

I don't think safety sheets are a good way of discerning all ingredients in a product. GWax definitely is beeswax based. And the sheet doesn't mention that.

I have to agree with NeilC that the Safety Data Sheets do not contain a full list of the ingredients contained within the wax and cannot therefore be directly compared with one another.

Of the multiple types of wax I have the best any of them do in terms of listing the actual ingredients on the tin/container is "Beeswax proofing for all smooth leathers" (old Grangers G Wax tin) and "contains a blend of water based waxes" (Brasher Conditioning Cream) and all the others say absolutely nothing about the actual ingredients.

It's a very competitive market and no doubt the actual formula of each wax will be a closely guarded commercial secret by the brands involved and by Grangers who manufacture the vast majority of them on behalf of those brands and are no doubt be subject to non-disclosure agreements.

It seems ninthace and sunnydale also have the cracking problem despite caring for their boots correctly so I’m afraid I don’t think G2EWS issue is down to poor care or maintenance.

Leather is by it's very nature a very tough material but it does have a limited lifespan and won't last forever. Regardless of the care and maintenance given all leather going through repeated wet and dry cycles will eventually start to harden and crack because the fibres within the leather can only stand so much flexing before they begin to deteriorate and the leather starts to crack and split apart at the flex points.

All that correct care and maintenance (including slowly drying the boots at a temperature between 15°C - 20°C) does is to extend the time before this unavoidable cracking happens.
This is Altberg's recommendation for drying their range of army boots but I'm sure the advice applies equally to their range of walking boots. https://www.altberg.co.uk/military/drying-boots-out/

All “nourish and protect”. 

That's a slightly misleading marketing play on words and whilst it may be true to some extent the nourishment and protection required for normal day to day city/indoor leather footwear is vastly different to that required for outdoor wet weather leather hiking/walking footwear which is why using normal boot polish is unsuitable. It's just not up to the job. The phrase "you can lead a horse to water.........." comes to mind. 

[jimbob]

Sorry, I am wrong about the make up of the agents named as Grangers G Wax and Cherry Blossom.

You're all correct  I used the wrong source.  The paraffin wax in both is the only safety hazard ingredient, they both contain  "safe" ingredients, which do'n't need to be listed.

I've not had the "cracking" problem with boots which in my case tend split between the sole and the rand, rather than anywhere else. Does this type of cracking only occur in all leather boots?
Given that my favourite boots are no longer in production I was thinking of Altbergs ( Mainly on Kinkyboots advice as well as others on this forum) for my next pair, but this puts me off.

[NeilC]

I'm wondering if the stiffer full grain leather tends to crack more than softer leathers like, say, oiled nubuck?


Most materials have positives and negatives. So maybe you pay for the superior waterproofing and toughness with a greater tendency to crack?


I was reading the instructions for applying Snoseal, which is a wax made from beeswax softened in a solvent. They advise heating the boots first and then applying - supposedly that draws the solvent and wax into the leather better than external heat or rubbing. No idea if they haven't evidence for it. I might try it.

[ninthace]

To be fair Jimbob, in the last 7 years, Altberg is the only brand of boots I have owned that have lasted long enough for wear of the uppers to become an issue.  Mrs N's have even been resoled once and are still going and still watertight.  Of the leather boots I have owned previously, the soles of 2 broke within a year and the stitching of the liner failed in the other pair after about 18 months.  None of them wear cheap brands either, one was Mammut, one was Meindl  - I forget the other.

[kinkyboots]

I've not had the "cracking" problem with boots which in my case tend split between the sole and the rand, rather than anywhere else. Does this type of cracking only occur in all leather boots?
Given that my favourite boots are no longer in production I was thinking of Altbergs ( Mainly on Kinkyboots advice as well as others on this forum) for my next pair, but this puts me off.

I wouldn't worry unduly and I certainly wouldn't let it put you off considering Altberg boots as their build quality is as good if not better than anything else I've seen and they offer a range of models in the widest range of sizes, widths and volumes available from any manufacturer so something is almost certain to fit your feet.

Flex cracking will eventually affect all leather boots as the leather can only stand so much flexing before it starts to deteriorate. A full leather boot will outlast a fabric/leather combination boot by some considerable margin if the leather is regularly correctly maintained and the boots are stored in a dry location at normal room temperature and away from direct sunlight.

I'm not a high mileage walker by any means but I would suggest the 2000 miles G2EWS states he has done in under 12 months is really pushing the limits of any boot. Having said that I'm certain that the life of his boots could have been extended considerably if restorative action had been taken much earlier as soon as the first signs of the wrinkling and cracking appeared on the flex points and if he had changed where and how he was drying and storing them.

As I posted earlier I've only had flex cracking happen once many years ago and that was to a pair of Scarpa full leather boots but the damage was self-inflicted and caused by the environment I was storing them in at the time which was both damp and had wildly fluctuating temperatures caused by sunlight coming through the windows - in other words the boots were continually going through mini wet and dry cycles with little or no care or maintenance inbetween.

Since then I've owned a few different models of Altberg boots and other brands of boots and have never seen the slightest hint of flex cracking. The leather was always still in very good condition by the time any of them were approaching the time when they required resoling.

[G2EWS]

Some interesting and useful comments, hopefully this post will help others.


As to my mileage, after this mornings walk I have done exactly 2042.9 miles in my Altbergs since purchasing them on the 6th October 2017.


I use ViewRanger, a Garmin Fenix 5X along with my fitbit charge 2 - soon to be a charge 3 - to monitor exactly what I do.


I do wonder if the cracking is indeed a result of a different kind of leather than what we used in the 70's? I don't recall seeing the wear back then as an instructor, neither on my boots or those of others. Not saying it wasn't there, I just don't recall seeing it.


Regards




Chris

[Islandplodder]

Someone once told me that boots last 1000 miles, 1500 if you are lucky, and a bit longer if you don't mind them not being totally waterproof any more.  You might be able to add a bit more for  Altbergs, but in the end boots just wear out.
I have to admit that has been my experience.  Boots just don't go on as long as they did when I were a lass

[NeilC]

Does the humidity of the room where they are stored matter? I'm guessing it does.


I'm thinking if you store boots in a low humidity environment, like an area with central heating, then maybe they start cracking earlier.

[G2EWS]

I have a pair of boots from when I used to teach in the 70's. They have dubbin on them and have been in my wardrobe in various houses.


Totally supple with no cracks!


I wore them when trying to find out why I had problem with modern boots - a different story - they were fine, if a little loose as that is what we did back then!


Regards


Chris

[kinkyboots]

The only temperature recommendation I can find on Altberg's website relates to drying them out slowly somewhere with a temperature of between 15°C - 20°C which I guess is a normal room temperature for most people.

As long as the leather is treated to keep it supple and to stop it drying out before any period of storage I would think the same temperature recommendation would apply. They are probably best stored somewhere inside the house  well away from any heat source or sunlight. Do not store them in an unheated outside garage or shed which have the potential to be cold and damp in the winter and too hot in the summer and not in a loft which will have similar temperature variations.

I'm guessing problems would only occur if the storage conditions are either too cold and damp or too hot or very wildly between the two.

@ G2EWS I found this old post from 2007 .co.uk/community/threads/boots.51962/post-1053152]https://www.[censored].co.uk/community/threads/boots.51962/post-1053152 which lists the repair/refurbishment work Altberg used to offer back then which may be of interest although I'm not sure they still offer the same service. The [censored] bit in the link is a r r s e without the spaces. 

If nothing else it may be worth a phone call or email to the factory with some pics attached to see what if there's they can do to help?

FULL REFURBISHMENT - WALKING AND MILITARY BOOTS
 Full resole plus new lining & waterproof membrane and/or replacement of soft leather collar and flex panels if required.
 Replacement D Rings and Ski Hooks where required.
 Small leather patches sewn onto upper to cover flex cracking or excessive wear. One Alt-berg boots only £49.50

[G2EWS]

Good morning Kinkyboots,


I have already been in communication with Altberg and they have offered no advice nor help, apart from a free tin of Leder-Gris.


My concern was, how it happened, but they didn't appear to want to say anything. When I went up to the factory last year to get fitted for them, I did find them a bit abrupt and matter of fact, which I didn't like. Bearing in mind, my reason for driving to Yorkshire from Wiltshire was to see them! They appeared more interested in appointments with Army personnel who kept turning up. Shame really, as I like the company and what it stands for.


I would like to think that I would buy another pair of the Nordkapp - which you correctly identified - but I will give it some thought before heading down that route.


Thank you for the link, I will have a good look at that.


Best regards




Chris

[G2EWS]

Hi again Kinkyboots,


I have copied and pasted the above in an email to Altberg asking if they still provide the same service.


Will report back what they say.


Best regards




Chris

[kinkyboots]

You are not the first and certainly won't be the last to negatively comment on the Altberg Factory "customer service" experience.

It's no excuse but the truth is that the Altberg factory is located where it is only because of it's close proximity to Catterick Army Camp and without the huge amount of business generated from their army contract I would guess Altberg may no longer be in business and probably goes some way to explain why the army personnel outwardly appear to be given priority over other customers.

It's the main reason I regularly recommend that everyone who is prepared to travel (including yourself I seem to remember) visit Whalley Warm & Dry as an alternative https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/boot-fitting-service/ where they will experience a completely different and faultless level of customer service - nothing ever appears to be too much trouble. They may not be cheap but I've yet to see any adverse comments about their measuring and boot fitting service which is only to be expected as it's the bread and butter and core of their business and the knowledge, experience and expertise of their boot fitters for walkers with problem feet is second to none.

[MichaelUK]

I went to the factory in May this year for a pair of Tetheras, got measured up, tried the right size, only to be told that they were not for sale? Ended up buying from Taunton Leisure, £20 cheaper with next day delivery. After a few weeks of wearing them I was starting to get some pressure/rubbing just above Thar right ankle, which has now dissap peared. I emailed Altberg if they had any solutions and received a phone call from them, very helpful.
Although disappointed with the factory visit, their after sales service was impressive.

[kinkyboots]

@ G2EWS I found this old post from 2007 .co.uk/community/threads/boots.51962/post-1053152]https://www.[censored].co.uk/community/threads/boots.51962/post-1053152 which lists the repair/refurbishment work Altberg used to offer back then which may be of interest although I'm not sure they still offer the same service. The [censored] bit in the link is a r r s e without the spaces. 

If nothing else it may be worth a phone call or email to the factory with some pics attached to see what if there's they can do to help?

I found an old post from 2011 containing a copy of an email sent out by Altberg explaining why they no longer offer the full boot refurbishment service which they used to.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=74&t=1088791&i=0

Dear E-Member:

We have received emails from some customers asking why we have decided to discontinue our refurbishment service from 7th December 2011 (it was wrongly stated in the previous email as 2012 – a typing error).

We have offered our refurbishment service for the past 15 years – and it is with regret that we’ve decided to withdraw the service.

We have never made any profit from refurbished boots – the amount of work we do in stripping the boot down, and then re-making ‘from scratch’ – as well as hand-cutting key worn components costs about 60% more than the work we do in a brand new boot. But we’ve always accepted this, because we felt it was a good thing to do environmentally, and we felt it was genuinely appreciated by our customers – in spite of the fact that we lost money on every pair.

We occasionally would have issues with a customer who would expect refurbished boots to be equally as good as a brand new boot!!! But refurbished boots are not as good – the leather and stitching are worn, and not so waterproof – and most of the key components are old – we don’t replace everything! Normally after we explained to customers that their expectations should be realistic, the majority of customers accepted this – but there were exceptions – and they could be very time consuming, as well as causing a good deal of stress for our office and factory staff who had to reply to their ongoing sequence of emails, telephone calls and letters.

We believe that the recession has made things much more difficult for everyone, and this may be the reason why, during the last 6 months, we have seen an increase in customers who are uncompromising in their expectancy of our refurbishment service.

We refurbish about 20 pairs each week, and with the vast majority there are no problems – however – there have been three specific cases in the last 6 months where customers have been so confrontational and aggressive, that in our opinion, it fell little short of bullying in order to get what they wanted – and if they didn’t get what they wanted, they stated quite clearly that they would use social media to discredit our reputation.

Everyone who works at Alt-Berg cares very much about the business, and about our customers – it is our livelihoods – and like all small businesses we do not have the time, or resources to handle what we believe are sustained, ongoing, unreasonable complaints – and an expectancy that a refurbished boot should be equal to a brand new boot in terms of performance and durability is unreasonable.

One of the three complainants we have had in the last six months was steadfast in his belief that having purchased a pair of Alt-Berg boots in 2002 – he should never be expected to purchase another pair again – he expected that by having them refurbished, they would last forever. Also the time from new to 1st refurbishment was 6 years – so he expected a further 6 years once refurbished – anything else was unacceptable – and Alt-Berg’s problem!

The email/letter exchange with this customer lasted over 5 weeks – he was adamant that if we could not offer him a further refurbishment, free of charge then we should give him a new pair of boots!

There is no way that we, as a small business, can handle this – and for the office and factory staff, the situation was unacceptably stressful.

Last week, after considering the situation, we have had to conclude that the refurbishment service – although ‘well meant’ – is open to abuse, and so with a genuine sense of regret, we decided to discontinue the service.

We continue to offer our resole service – done in our factory, on the original lasts – and if there is any way in which we can sustain the lifetime of Alt-Berg boots – short of full refurbishment – then we will certainly do what we can.

We very much appreciate our customers – and we continue to appreciate the work that you give us.

I hope that this email explains the situation from our side.

Mike Sheehan, and all at Alt-Berg