Author Topic: Dubbin v Cherry Blossom Waxed oil v Leder Gris ??  (Read 5468 times)

tenmilesplus

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Any experienced footwear carers tell me the difference between these three products ? Which should I use on new leather boots and what the products are for ??

  I have a pair of Scarpa Rangers that are splitting at the pivot, I have also bought some leather Scarpa Tera replacements..

  Thanks all..
Gone for a walk, back in a bit..

ninthace

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Re: Dubbin v Cherry Blossom Waxed oil v Leder Gris ??
« Reply #1 on: 00:35:52, 16/10/18 »
I can vouch for Leder-Gris and the Xtreme version thereof. Good stuff, effective and a tin goes a long way.  Not tried the dubbin for years. More info on LG here: https://www.altberg.co.uk/leder-gris/history-of-leder-gris/
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NeilC

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Re: Dubbin v Cherry Blossom Waxed oil v Leder Gris ??
« Reply #2 on: 10:23:14, 16/10/18 »
AFAIK there is no standard formulation for dubbin which can contain a variety of oils, greases, fats, waxes and solvents. I think the common denominator is that it contains animal fats like lanolin, mink oil or even fish oil. I believe the potential problem with that is that animal fats are prone to oxidation over time which can produce acidic compounds. Beeswax or paraffin waxes are supposedly more stable. I've no idea whether that matters over the lifespan of a walking boot.


I don't know what the difference is between Cherry's waxed oil and Ledergris but they appear to be the same idea: oil plus wax so probably a very similar effect.


Seems to me that leather care could do with more scientific study. With different boot makers giving out often contradictory advice and the old-fashioned terminology used (e.g. what does "nourishes leather" actually mean technically speaking?) indicates to me that the advice is is mostly given wisdom rather than research based.

tenmilesplus

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Re: Dubbin v Cherry Blossom Waxed oil v Leder Gris ??
« Reply #3 on: 11:30:10, 16/10/18 »
What about Carrs Leather oil the horsey fraternity use ? That can't be bad, they use it on all types of kit..
Gone for a walk, back in a bit..

ninthace

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Re: Dubbin v Cherry Blossom Waxed oil v Leder Gris ??
« Reply #4 on: 12:46:36, 16/10/18 »
The other issue is the variable quality of leather that boots are made from.    Scarpa say they select carefully from reputable tanneries, Altberg have a single source that they have confidence in. Not sure if other manufacturers are as selective.   If the leather is not great quality it will not last as long even with the best care.
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NeilC

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Re: Dubbin v Cherry Blossom Waxed oil v Leder Gris ??
« Reply #5 on: 12:52:05, 16/10/18 »
What about Carrs Leather oil the horsey fraternity use ? That can't be bad, they use it on all types of kit..


Who knows? Received wisdom has it that you need to be a bit cautious with too much oil as it can over soften leather and you end up with collapsed toe-boxes or baggy leather.


Given that walking boot specific stuff is cheap enough and widely available I don't see the point in doing anything other than buying the odd tin of Grangers, Ledergris or similar every now and again.


The only ones I've not tried are the silicone based ones like HS12. I'm interested to know if they work well.

kinkyboots

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Re: Dubbin v Cherry Blossom Waxed oil v Leder Gris ??
« Reply #6 on: 13:00:40, 16/10/18 »
I would agree with NeilC's comments re the use of dubbin.

Whilst dubbin may be a good at waterproofing leather the main problems with it are that it can leave the surface of the leather very sticky/oily which attracts dust and dirt like a magnet and it is this dirt which can eventually cause the stitching to deteriorate and fail. The inclusion of someoils can over soften the leather causing the boot to lose it's shape and support over time and in extreme cases can also cause the stitching to pull through the leather. It's very rare for manufacturers to disclose the contents of this type of product so you generally have no idea what's been included and in what percentages. I don't know for definite but I would also assume that the use of dubbin could have a marked detrimental effect on the breathability of any Gore-Tex or other waterproof liner in the boot. Given those negatives dubbin is something I now actively avoid using.

Scarpa recommend the use of their own silicon based HS12 Cream or a water based wax treatment such as Aqueous Nikwax on the Montana calf leather leather used in the Terra GTX.
https://www.scarpa.co.uk/technical/boot-care/
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/scarpa-hs12-cream-p215700

Quote
MONTANA CALF LEATHERS-example-Terra
A high quality 2mm leather ideal for the entry level boots in our range. Montana leather is very supple and very lightweight which gives a soft, comfortable fit ideal for entry level boots. The leather is oiled to boost natural water resistance and to improve the cosmetic finish. Use a proofing agent from new, for best results we recommend SCARPA HS12 cream or a water based wax treatment such as Aqueous Nikwax.

Having said all that when what is probably widely regarded as one of the best boot retailers and fitters in the country offers advice on the subject of boot care I would suggest that it's probably wise to listen and take note.

https://www.whalleyoutdoor.co.uk/walking-boots-care-guide/





You can split Whalley Warm & Dry's recommended wax products in to two distinct categories. The main difference between the two types is the increased oil content in the wax for the high wear areas- Leder Gris Original has 70% wax/30% oil content whilst the Leder Gris Xtreme has 50% wax/50% oil content. Either way you can buy a tin of both types for under £10 including delivery.

Wax For Everyday All Over Use
Leder Gris Original Clear (Green 80g Tin) (£4.60 upwards) https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax
Grangers G-Wax (£2.70 upwards)
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/grangers-g-wax-leather-footwear-conditioner-p342371
https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Wax-Grangers-80g/dp/B078NGW9VQ/
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grangers-G-Wax-80g-Leather-Shoe-Boot-Waterproofer-Proofer-Beeswax-Polish-Dubbing/272674990800

Wax For High Wear Areas Such As Flex Point and Tongue

Leder Gris Xtreme Clear (Red 80g Tin) (£5.00 upwards) https://www.odintactical.co.uk/leder-gris-boot-wax-clear
Cherry Blossom Waxed Leather Oil 100ml (£4.98 upwards) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cherry-Blossom-Waxed-Leather-Oil-100ml/152836834522
or £3.99 collected from John Lewis if you've got a local store https://www.johnlewis.com/cherry-blossom-waxed-leather-oil-100ml/p3497250

Stafford Outdoors website is showing both Leder Gris products available for £3.96 each and the Grangers G-Wax for £2.49 all with free delivery but with very limited stock available. My only concern is that I'm sure I read somewhere that they had moved out of their premises so I'm not sure if they're still trading.

What about Carrs Leather oil the horsey fraternity use ? That can't be bad, they use it on all types of kit..

I'm pretty sure that saddles and bridles etc. don't come with Gore-Tex liners and I honestly can't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel when someone else has already done the work for you!  ;)

 

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