Author Topic: Public transport is terrible  (Read 6400 times)

Ronin83

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Public transport is terrible
« on: 23:43:26, 23/10/18 »
Public transport in this country is bloody awful.
Firstly trains are expensive, crap, unreliable and not well connected.
Buses aren't cheap, take ages and are often not well connected.


I'm doing the ridgeway in sections. We started off with a mate, then shuttle runs with 2 cars either end of a walk. Now it's a bit far to bother with that so I looked into public transport.
Planned a fairly easy couple of days from princes risborough(where we'd leave the car) to Wallingford, stopping over in watlington. Wallingford to princes risborough is ridiculous by PT. Its really not that far.


This has become a series of frustrating disappointments at our PT system and how inadequate it is, often having to go further north or into London just to connect 2 nearby towns. No wonder everyone drives! I don't even like driving, I hate it!


Rant over


Troggy

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #1 on: 08:32:14, 24/10/18 »
Yeh, it's patchy to poor in rural areas that I've visited. I was camping last year at Watlington ridgeway campsite and wandered down to the Carriers pub to take essential supplies on board. I got talking to a lad at dinnertime, who was looking after his wife full time and had come in for a meal...and probably a bit of a chat with friends. Anyway, he was telling me that his village was about 5 miles away and the people who had pensions would travel in by bus to collect their pensions from the Post Office in Watlington (their own PO had closed.) Then the bus service was withdrwan, so how the, possibly, frailer members of our society manage is anyone's guess. They might get a lift or are probably forced to get a taxi, unless they cant afford one themselves and share.
My Sisiter and Bin Law live in Mid Wales. The Doctors surgery has moved to a bigger village 7 or 8 miles away. There's a very limited bus service and that, I guess, is replicated in many areas.

What is a frustrating incovenience to some, is the removal of a lifeline to others. We're lucky in Merseyside, we have a brilliant transport system within the triangle of Chester to Ormskirk and Southport and good links to the Greater Manchester area.
Unfortunately, with the deregulation of Public Transport it should now be more accurately called Private Transport, as it's usually run by private companies and the Publuc service aspect is swapped for profit. Like a lot of other aspects of life that were looked on as a service, they have gone or are going where people have little or no recourse to those services.
As far as those of us who want to walk through some of these beautiful parts of Britain, yes I agree, transport facilities can be a real pain and if we have cars, we can use them. But for many people, it's a massive problem in their lives.


astaman

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #2 on: 08:58:40, 24/10/18 »
Wainwright's achievements were carried out with a very high level of dependence on public transport (as well as Shanks's pony of course). I wonder if it would even be possible now.

ninthace

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #3 on: 09:09:09, 24/10/18 »
To catch the bus in the corner of rural Cumbria where I lived we did not use our watches - a calendar was good enough.  The bus to Hawes went on a Tuesday, the one to Barnard Castle went on Wednesdays.  Proper old fashioned buses too - run by Cumbria Classic Coaches.


Now in Devon we are truly spoiled - one bus every 2 hours!


I was, however, pleased to find the SWCP is well supported by bus services.  I used them to park at one point and catch the bus to my starting point to walk back to my car.  Exmouth to Abbotsbury can be done easily (provided you are not fussy about which direction you walk) and all timed so I could use my bus pass.  A fair bit of the north coast of Devon can also be done that way too.
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Ronin83

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #4 on: 09:59:12, 24/10/18 »
Troggy, yeh that puts it into perspective actually.
Its really becoming survival of the fittest now and old people are kind of left to struggle.


I think the ridgeway, probably like a lot of our national trails, is best done in one hit, which is what we wanted to do, but couldn't.

fit old bird

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #5 on: 11:32:19, 24/10/18 »
Try making up your own walks using the available bus services, rather than trying to fit public transport around specified long distance paths. I did it, a combination of bus and walk from North Lincolnshire to the Lakes and back. I took maps, didn't book accommodation in advance took whatever was available, walked when I felt like it, got on a bus if it was raining.  :D


ilona
« Last Edit: 21:35:36, 24/10/18 by fit old bird »

barewirewalker

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #6 on: 11:50:35, 24/10/18 »
Wainwright's achievements were carried out with a very high level of dependence on public transport (as well as Shanks's pony of course). I wonder if it would even be possible now.
And a certain amount of 'judicious trespass' but it would be against the landowner's right to publish those part off the 'Righteous Way', in an up to date guide for fear of being sued for inciting public nuisance.

Field margins often show the way how a safer way may be created to join the access network to the public transport hubs and pick up points. If land was a properly shared resource and the element that is 'countryside' were allowed to support the asset of the access network, we might see how the transport network could be earning additional income.

Whilst I was on a LAF I asked if anyone understood the difference between linear and circular  routes, I was slapped down, from the local authority, with obvious answer, but it was clear that the thinking stopped dead there. Linear routes to be effective depend 3rd party transport, the reason why local authorities do not or fight shy of publishing linear routes is the fear of reaction if the routes become compromised by changes in timetables etc.

Now I do not think that leisure walking would be the saviour of public transport, but it could be one piece of positive thinking, to contra the balance of negative action based on fear of failure.
 
« Last Edit: 11:56:07, 24/10/18 by barewirewalker »
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April

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #7 on: 13:34:31, 24/10/18 »
Unfortunately, with the deregulation of Public Transport it should now be more accurately called Private Transport, as it's usually run by private companies and the Publuc service aspect is swapped for profit. Like a lot of other aspects of life that were looked on as a service, they have gone or are going where people have little or no recourse to those services.
As far as those of us who want to walk through some of these beautiful parts of Britain, yes I agree, transport facilities can be a real pain and if we have cars, we can use them. But for many people, it's a massive problem in their lives.

Spot on Troggy. There are people in Cumbria (not even in places you would describe as remote) that have no bus service at all.

Wainwright's achievements were carried out with a very high level of dependence on public transport (as well as Shanks's pony of course). I wonder if it would even be possible now.

It is possible to complete the Wainwrights using public transport. We have done them but we have had to wild camp overnight a lot. We would struggle to complete all of the routes on the fells that AW lists in his guides though  :)
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vghikers

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #8 on: 13:57:57, 24/10/18 »
In general I wouldn't expect public transport to be particularly conducive to that piecemeal strategy for walking national trails, it's a logically messy way of tackling them anyway. Near towns and cities the PT network has a natural affinity to a radial structure with routes converging on the centres, a pattern that supports commuting, so we get towns in the outer ring that are fairly close together with no direct PT route. When we backpacked the Ridgeway back in 2002, we had to take a train from Tring into London Paddington and another back out to Swindon for the final bus to Avebury. Speaking of the Ridgeway, it ends at Ivinghoe Beacon in the middle of nowhere - who the hell designed that?.

Earlier this year I totalled the car and we are now officially carless, we are designing our backpacks around PT as Fit Old Bird is doing above. It's turning out surprisingly well so far. Depending on the particular journey and time, obviously, we were quite taken aback at how cheap it was. An advance ticket Manchester to Penrith with seat reservation, booked just the afternoon before, was £13.20, plus around £8 for a bus to Keswick.

Some of our haunts are more difficult for PT, the south-west quadrant of the Lakes and much of the North Pennines are particularly problematic and we'll need taxis for the last leg of most journeys.

Ronin83

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #9 on: 15:44:43, 24/10/18 »
In general I wouldn't expect public transport to be particularly conducive to that piecemeal strategy for walking national trails, it's a logically messy way of tackling them anyway. Near towns and cities the PT network has a natural affinity to a radial structure with routes converging on the centres, a pattern that supports commuting, so we get towns in the outer ring that are fairly close together with no direct PT route.


Surely PT should also connect towns to eachother



 Speaking of the Ridgeway, it ends at Ivinghoe Beacon in the middle of nowhere - who the hell designed that?.


Well I doubt that thousands of years ago all the towns etc were in the same place. Its relevance today is just a high point at the end of a walk.
Oh and ivinghoe was the beginning for us(I know, heathens!)

.

 we'll need taxis for the last leg of most journeys.


Yeh, I think taxis will come into play at some point

Islandplodder

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #10 on: 16:11:33, 24/10/18 »

It really annoys me when LDPs, especially national trails, start or finish in the middle of nowhere with no possibility of transport back to civilisation apart from bribing a mate to pick you up.
After all, by definition, at the end of an LDP your car is going to be somewhere else.
However, that is a problem of the design of LDPs not public transport.
 Some rail routes have walk leaflets or books round using the train.  I have seen one which follows the train from Lancaster to Skipton, and last time I was in the Yorkshire Dales I bought an excellent book which had walks using the Settle Carlisle railway, some circular, some linear and I did 2 or 3 of them.
I think, as Fit old Bird says, you have to look at the transport and work the walks round them.  For instance you can do most of both the West Highland Way and the Great Glen Way in Scotland using the bus.
But, if they want us to get out of our cars to save the planet, and on our feet to save our health, I agree we need a better public transport system.

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #11 on: 17:19:23, 24/10/18 »
Another issue with PT is that it is designed around average sized people from 40 years ago. If you are 6 feet or over and /or not a stick insect, the legroom, seat back height and seat width become a real pain - literally. You end up needing an osteopath at the end of the journey. It’s not much fun for whoever ends up sitting next to you either. On PT I often find I cannot fit my legs into the space behind the seat in front, without being physically wedged in. The bit of the seat that pushes forward to support a hobbit’s neck / head projects nicely into my spine between my shoulders. So, my preference is to use my car and arrive more or less still able to move.

Ronin83

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #12 on: 20:04:56, 24/10/18 »
Unfortunately on this occasion I just really wanted to do the ridgeway and have done for ages, but plans to do it in one go kept failing so I resigned to doing it in sections. Many of the LDWs are ancient, or at least the ridgeway certainly is, so it's really not about design. When you arrive to civilisation aka a town, I don't think it's ridiculous to expect a train or bus to go back to another town 10 or 20 miles away.


Its always a problem with linear walks in general. The last thing you need after a long day's walk is 3 hours of changing buses and trains.

April

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #13 on: 20:30:13, 24/10/18 »
Its always a problem with linear walks in general. The last thing you need after a long day's walk is 3 hours of changing buses and trains.

Welcome to our world  ;D It takes 2 hours and five minutes for us to get into Keswick. If we used a car it would take 40 minutes.

We love going wild camping and we would do it anyway but on Saturdays going back home on the bus it can sometimes take 3 hours with the waiting times for the next bus, staying out all night and not going home until Sunday is the answer  :)
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ninthace

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Re: Public transport is terrible
« Reply #14 on: 20:51:38, 24/10/18 »
Speaking of the Ridgeway, it ends at Ivinghoe Beacon in the middle of nowhere - who the hell designed that?.
To be fair, there is a bus service from the foot of the beacon that goes direct to Aylesbury or Dunstable 8 times a day plus a service to Stewkley.
When I plan a bus supported walk I use GoogleEarth to find the nearest bus stop and the links from that to find bus times.  https://www.traveline.info/ is also useful.
Doesn't detract from the central tenet though; walking using rural public Transport is a PITA
« Last Edit: 21:14:50, 24/10/18 by ninthace »
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