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Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: gunwharfman on 13:52:10, 28/11/18

Title: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:52:10, 28/11/18
It is mine! I want to hike a couple of long distance French hikes from May onwards and want to hike in Germany and Austria later in the summer, but have now decided I must just sit and wait to see what happens.

Annoying really, my bucket list of hikes to do is now gathering dust!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Owen on 14:34:05, 28/11/18
In short no, I think if I wanted to go away in March I'd be more worried but by next summer I hope things will have settled down a bit. 
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 14:52:42, 28/11/18
No because it'll be stopped when we get a second vote, even Labour now suggesting it's likely  O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: janner on 15:10:38, 28/11/18
We never had any trouble traveling around Europe before we joined the EU so why do you think there will be when we leave? I have booked to go to Greece and do not expect any problems.

Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Owen on 15:25:32, 28/11/18
No because it'll be stopped when we get a second vote, even Labour now suggesting it's likely  O0


 O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: gunwharfman on 15:42:50, 28/11/18
Maybe you are all right, but I'm going to keep my powder dry and not pay out anything until I'm sure.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 15:59:21, 28/11/18
The same here, somehow i cannot envisage Heathrow airport or any of the other major airports coming to a stand still next March.
None of the huge international financial institutions in the place they all refer to as THE CITY, as if it was the only city in the Uk, are shutting shop, scared to bits about what will happen on May 1st next year.

Its a lot of scare tactics from the London financiers, a lot of them who are current Mps, as most of them have second very lucrative jobs outside parliament, who will see the gravy on their plates provided by Brussels and EU dry up.

Brexit will have very little short term effect on joe public here in the Uk, as Germany still desperately need to sell their cars to their biggest customer ( the Uk) and all the trade from around Europe that arrives and leaves the Uk will still continue.

Brexit will only stop our plans if we allow it to. 8)


Its just over 16 weeks to armageddon, BRING IT ON
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 16:40:47, 28/11/18
It's really only two weeks ... Vote in parliament will be the biggie  O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: forgotmyoldpassword on 16:43:35, 28/11/18
Hopefully we'll get a huge rejection in Parliament, May being booted out and a second ref where we can do what the US did during the mid-terms and have policy pushed by something other than old duffers who aren't going to be around to deal with the carnage in ten years time.


That said, Corbyn couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag at the moment so I'm less than impressed by the alternatives.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: pauldawes on 17:00:59, 28/11/18
It is mine! I want to hike a couple of long distance French hikes from May onwards and want to hike in Germany and Austria later in the summer, but have now decided I must just sit and wait to see what happens.

Annoying really, my bucket list of hikes to do is now gathering dust!


What do you think will happen that would stop you from travelling there and enjoying the walks...the countries aren’t moving.


I suppose these things are as difficult as people want to make them...but to affect your travel plans, our European friends would have to do something much crazier than any of our own Brexiteers have ever proposed.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 17:07:17, 28/11/18
 O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 17:08:20, 28/11/18
Brexit will have very little short term effect on joe public here in the Uk, as Germany still desperately need to sell their cars to their biggest customer ( the Uk) and all the trade from around Europe that arrives and leaves the Uk will still continue.
They said that to justify us getting favourable terms in the current negotiations - how did that work out?  Not a lot of good eating on a BMW anyway.


I have it sussed.  I am going hiking in NZ about the time it all kicks off and I'm flying with a non-European airline.  Hopefully you will all have it sorted while I'm away.  I have a postal vote just in case they go for a second  referendum.


I liked Treeza's comment to Jezza in PMQs today referring to his 6 bullet points for Brexit - "My shopping list for this weekend is longer than that!"
We are truly in the doodoo - Treeza has no support and I wouldn't put Jezza in charge of the rubber duck in the deep end of my bath!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 17:10:54, 28/11/18
Exactly, which is why we the people will need to be asked again ...  O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: BuzyG on 17:54:30, 28/11/18
Hopefully off to New Zealand for a few weeks.  So not affected by Brexit. O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 18:33:07, 28/11/18
Hopefully off to New Zealand for a few weeks.  So not affected by Brexit. O0
See you on the Tongariro Crossing!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 18:42:02, 28/11/18
If there is a second referendum, then it should not include any option of remaining in the EU.
Several years ago, Ireland was asked by the EU to have another referendum, simply because they did not like the outcome when they rejected the terms of an important treaty.

There are many in the Remain camp who are crossing their fingers, that due to the confusion and worry cooked up by those who simply cannot contemplate leaving the EU, that people will change their minds.

Britain thankfully is a democracy, and however close that 2016 result was, the majority voted to LEAVE, and that's exactly what we must do in March.

How we leave is another matter, but if the option to remain is on the referendum paper, then any negotiations in the future with the Eu, will be totally stacked against the Uk.

The country will be seen as weak and heaven knows what the markets in that place known as THE CITY  would do.

Whether your a Remainer or Leaver, the current offer on the table is a poor one, and no doubt will probably fail in the parliamentary vote. :-[

If the vote had been to stay, then none of this fiasco would be happening, but we are leaving in March, hard, soft or spongy Brexit, and any second referendum should be a discussion on our leaving terms,  nothing else.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 19:03:07, 28/11/18
Couldn't disagree more. Remain must be an option.  We now know facts as opposed to fiction in the two and a half years since the referendum. Polls clearly indicate the will of the people is now to remain, that must at least be confirmed or not, so choice should be remain or May's deal, since parliament won't accept a no deal option as it would be too damaging.


Democracy doesn't end with one vote and people are allowed to change their mind :)
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Hillhiker1 on 19:08:42, 28/11/18
...And I thought we were doing SO well at keeping Brexit off the forum... :(
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Mel on 19:10:58, 28/11/18
 O0
+1
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: bricam2096 on 19:24:45, 28/11/18
Oh [censored], are you telling me that where you decide to walk depends on whether or not we're in the EU? Pretty sad really if that's the case.

 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 19:33:03, 28/11/18
I assume that Dyffryn Ardudwy like Rees Mogg and his cronies is a man of private means with an overseas investment income so this won't bother him  The UK will be poorer economically under any form of Brexit, compared with staying in the EU, government analysis suggests (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46366162) Here's to the 51.9% and their well informed decision.  I'd rather be hiking.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: jimbob on 19:39:20, 28/11/18

Democracy doesn't end with one vote and people are allowed to change their mind :)
O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
Yep we have many elections that change governments,  councils etc. 
If you truly believe that referenda should be binding on the government. (Incidentally the last one wasn't the Act allowing the referendum stated that its result was advisory I. E. Whatever result could be ignored by the Govt.  if it didn't want to take that advice) then you have to believe that we should regularly ask the people how they think on a regular basis. Or elect politicians with the guts to do the job they were elected to represent us at, governing and not passing a party splitting buck.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 19:58:26, 28/11/18
Winston Churchill once said the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter. I think events around the world over the last couple of years show there is some truth to that.


Add to that a corruption of politicians, each trying to foist their bankrupt ideology on us and you can see why we are in a mess. A succession of failed ‘leaders’ have sold us a pup. What we may end up with is neither fish nor fowl and won’t satisfy either side of the divide.


A democratic decision is not fixed for all time and that is why we have periodic elections - we can change our minds. Making a non-reversible decision of this magnitude on such a narrow margin for a clearly divided nation is madness, particularly when you consider how many have died and turned 18 in the last couple of years. Age had a big part to play in the decisions and if nothing else had changed, we might well get a different decision today.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sunnydale on 20:09:22, 28/11/18
...And I thought we were doing SO well at keeping Brexit off the forum... :(


 O0
+2
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sunnydale on 20:13:16, 28/11/18
Hopefully off to New Zealand for a few weeks. ....


Can you take Gunwharfman with you.....please!  And confiscate anything that enables him to get on-line! ;) :D :D
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 20:47:24, 28/11/18
Brexit will go ahead, but to fret about whether this means you will be able to go France on holiday is bonkers. 


We have only had freedom of movement for about 25 years or so, since Maastricht.  This means that for most of your life the arrangements were as they will be from April next year.  Can we assume that you didn't go to France prior to the mid 90s because it was such a hassle?



Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 21:02:44, 28/11/18
Brexit will go ahead, but to fret about whether this means you will be able to go France on holiday is bonkers. 


We have only had freedom of movement for about 25 years or so, since Maastricht.  This means that for most of your life the arrangements were as they will be from April next year.  Can we assume that you didn't go to France prior to the mid 90s because it was such a hassle?
Going to France wasn't too much of a hassle in those days but coming back was a regular PITA.  Sometimes it took longer to get through Border Control than it did to cross the Channel and that was without today's illegal migrant problem or the volume of today's ferry traffic.
Holland, France et al have already started training extra customs personnel for some time - what has our lot been doing?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 21:28:04, 28/11/18
Going to France wasn't too much of a hassle in those days but coming back was a regular PITA.  Sometimes it took longer to get through Border Control than it did to cross the Channel and that was without today's illegal migrant problem or the volume of today's ferry traffic.
Holland, France et al have already started training extra customs personnel for some time - what has our lot been doing?


And of course Gunwharfman should allow at least an extra 45 minutes in case the world ends, the wheels come off and he has to spend 8 months in quarantine in case he has contracted rabies, mad cow or Frenchness in general!  Then he will obviously have to spend 12 days in the Post Office changing all his money into Euros as there will be no taking English pounds out of the UK.


Or possibly it will just go absolutely fine, despite the thousands of extra officers that the Dutch will have lined up!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: tonyk on 21:40:04, 28/11/18
 I have just listened to Mark Carney parroting a script that coke head George Osborne had written for him and then log onto the form for even more of the same crap. >:( Stop worrying,things will sort themselves out,they always do.The worst case scenario is a nuclear war between the UK and France so there isn't that much to worry about.I think Mr Carney forgot to mention that one.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 21:41:48, 28/11/18
I made my first cross channel trip in 1961.  No RoRo ferries in those days, in fact it wasn't long since they had stopped using cranes to swing cars on and off.  The journey across France took two and a half days - no motorways then -  and a Dad's Morris could only make 55mph on a good day with a tail wind.  Dad only got a fortnight so we had just 9 days by the Med before we had to set off back.  I do seem to remember currency restrictions in those days too in terms of how much sterling we were allowed to take out and things called Visitors' Passports that had a short shelf life but still we managed.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: NeilC on 21:44:43, 28/11/18
I don't get it. Nobody is talking about not being able to travel so how would it affect it?


I just went to Turkey who aren't in the EU. They seemed quite happy to have us there.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 21:53:20, 28/11/18
I don't get it. Nobody is talking about not being able to travel so how would it affect it?


I just went to Turkey who aren't in the EU. They seemed quite happy to have us there.
The issue is to do with the Certification of Airlines, Pilots Licences and Operators Licences.  Currently these are a pan-European but if the UK leaves it will need to revert to a national system and get it recognised by the EU.  Positive noises have been made by all concerned but nobody knows for sure yet.  The transition period is supposed to sort all this out but if we crash out without an agreement, some fast thinking may be required by the air bureaucrats.
Turkey is not in the EU but they recognise our Operators' Licenses etc which are currently EU based. If you want to bore yourself to death see this link for some air based speculation https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html)


Now multiply this by all the EU wide regulations and certifications that  we use every day for road haulage, pharmaceutical manufacture, food production, insurance, banking, agriculture etc etc etc etc and you begin to appreciate what a horlicks this is if we crash out without a transition.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: gunwharfman on 22:11:15, 28/11/18
I wasn't trying to make a political issue out of it, honest! I'm just intersted in whether the issue might affect the freedom that we have to travel without hindrance. I personally like travelling so freely and the idea that so many narrow minded people really appalls me. I whizzed over to France twice this year, it was so easy just like catching a bus! The thought that this simplicity might end based on some view that European peope are somehow 'different species' makes me unhappy.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: jonathand on 23:27:29, 28/11/18
In general., I'm sure it will not really affect travel to Europe. There may be a visa system coming at some point, like when travelling to the US, but it won't be expensive. Queues will likely be longer, but it's not the end of the world, and getting into Schengen can involve a bit of a queue already. However, should we leave without a deal, then there probably will be short term disruption. I think I read that the channel tunnel has a contingency plan that might involving closing temporarily. I think different airlines have different policies about refunds if flights are disrupted. I suspect that behind the scenes plans are in place to keep things moving, although I guess emergency legislation will be needed. The polls before the referendum were close, and most companies planned for leave to win (eg by hedging against a drop in the pound), and I'm sure the same is happening. The pound is predicted to drop in a no deal, but that's not actually disruptive, it just makes holidays a bit more expensive... even to New Zealand! I'd be amazed if there is a no deal Brexit though.


I've tried to keep that non-political, but I think all Brexit conversations should be banned from here!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: NeilC on 07:32:26, 29/11/18
The issue is to do with the Certification of Airlines, Pilots Licences and Operators Licences.  Currently these are a pan-European but if the UK leaves it will need to revert to a national system and get it recognised by the EU.  Positive noises have been made by all concerned but nobody knows for sure yet.  The transition period is supposed to sort all this out but if we crash out without an agreement, some fast thinking may be required by the air bureaucrats.
Turkey is not in the EU but they recognise our Operators' Licenses etc which are currently EU based. If you want to bore yourself to death see this link for some air based speculation https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html)


Now multiply this by all the EU wide regulations and certifications that  we use every day for road haulage, pharmaceutical manufacture, food production, insurance, banking, agriculture etc etc etc etc and you begin to appreciate what a horlicks this is if we crash out without a transition.


That makes sense.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:53:46, 29/11/18
...And I thought we were doing SO well at keeping Brexit off the forum... :(



 O0
+3


I know that the opening post was non political, but it was sadly inevitable that the thread would become so.


I have strong opinions about the merits or otherwise of Brexit, but I will not share them here on a WALKING FORUM.


Perhaps Admin could move this thread into a non walking section, perhaps alongside the RANTS thread.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: NeilC on 07:56:34, 29/11/18
so many narrow minded people.......some view that European people are somehow 'different species'


And THAT is why Brexit topics just shouldn't get started here. Apparently it can't be discussed without branding 50% of the UK as terrible people.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:57:34, 29/11/18
I wasn't trying to make a political issue out of it, honest! I'm just intersted in whether the issue might affect the freedom that we have to travel without hindrance. I personally like travelling so freely and the idea that so many narrow minded people really appalls me. I whizzed over to France twice this year, it was so easy just like catching a bus! The thought that this simplicity might end based on some view that European peope are somehow 'different species' makes me unhappy.



If we get a sensible deal then I don't see any problems. If by some misfortune we crash out with No Deal, then there may well be some short term problems regarding travel. But not for long. I'm not planning to go abroad next year so as far as travel is concerned, I will be unaffected. Could be a different matter for my daughter, who does travel to EU countries a lot.

Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:00:49, 29/11/18

And THAT is why Brexit topics just shouldn't get started here. Apparently it can't be discussed without branding 50% of the UK as terrible people.



Sad but true - seen all sorts of insults on newspaper forums - Quislings, Xenophobes, Traitors, Brexitards ….. I could go on. And the personal insults towards Theresa May disgust me. Never in living memory has a subject divided the nation more.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:02:41, 29/11/18

Anyway, I'm not going to post on this thread anymore - I feel that Brexit just drags me down.


Admin - please could you move it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 08:08:42, 29/11/18
I’m sorry I got dragged in  :-[ . I agree that we should not pollute a walking forum with politics.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: vizzavona on 08:23:21, 29/11/18

As an English whose father is in a hole in ground in Northern France....mother remarried after WW2 and I have lived, gone to school, and worked in Scotland all of my days....married to a French citizen so the larger part of my family are French folks.
We were always supporters of the EU however things went a big way astray when much more was added to control in Brussels.
In GB we did not do enough to fight against the swelling controls and the several unelected folks in bodies doing much of control.  I don't think that the English, by sending a majority of totally against the European idea MPs to the  parliament, was very constructive. Changes to the EU had to be made.  Now we have the situation where the English Westminster MPs have the unenviable task of having to get constituents to consider a Brexit Light with the 'full' Brexit that they voted for.  Many of these folks are in constituencies where the greatest affects of the EU rules created most problems for their lives.


Praise to the Civil Servants.   Plan B maybe?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:26:20, 29/11/18
As an English whose father is in a hole in ground in Northern France....mother remarried after WW2 and I have lived, gone to school, and worked in Scotland all of my days....married to a French citizen so the larger part of my family are French folks.
We were always supporters of the EU however things went a big way astray when much more was added to control in Brussels.
In GB we did not do enough to fight against the swelling controls and the several unelected folks in bodies doing much of control.  I don't think that the English, by sending a majority of totally against the European idea MPs to the  parliament, was very constructive. Changes to the EU had to be made.  Now we have the situation where the English Westminster MPs have the unenviable task of having to get constituents to consider a Brexit Light with the 'full' Brexit that they voted for.  Many of these folks are in constituencies where the greatest affects of the EU rules created most problems for their lives.


Praise to the Civil Servants.   Plan B maybe?



Perhaps could you start a thread in the Hikers Bar if you want to sound off about Brexit?


Please.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: phil1960 on 14:25:42, 29/11/18

And THAT is why Brexit topics just shouldn't get started here. Apparently it can't be discussed without branding 50% of the UK as terrible people.
  O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: jimbob on 14:53:22, 29/11/18

Apparently it can't be discussed without branding 50% of the UK as terrible people.
From both sides of the argument, simultaneously, that means 100% of the UK are terrible people ;D :2funny: :2funny:
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 15:14:55, 29/11/18
 ;D
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 16:51:25, 29/11/18
;D
It's no laughing matter young man   :knuppel2:
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 17:23:40, 29/11/18
Young  :o :o :o ;D
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 17:29:55, 29/11/18
Young  :o :o :o ;D


S'all relative.  You would prefer old........Grandad?  :)
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 18:14:33, 29/11/18
Only just ... 4 of the little ones  O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: phil1960 on 18:40:09, 29/11/18
Is this the right room for an argument?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: bricam2096 on 18:43:20, 29/11/18
Is this the right room for an argument?

I told you once.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: phil1960 on 18:44:25, 29/11/18
I told you once.
No you haven’t
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: phil1960 on 18:47:40, 29/11/18
https://youtu.be/XNkjDuSVXiE (https://youtu.be/XNkjDuSVXiE)


Classic  ;D
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 19:06:44, 29/11/18
Only just ... 4 of the little ones  O0
Derisive snort. Come back when they’re at school.  ::)
Bet you can’t remember what you wore for the Coronation fancy dress competition!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: BuzyG on 19:28:45, 29/11/18
See you on the Tongariro Crossing!
Just Googled that. Now added to the must visit list.  O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: gunwharfman on 20:36:22, 29/11/18
I drove to Maidstone Kent today. I wonder how long it will be before our roads, certainly on the south, will have no more space to drive on? The number of cars, vans, lorries, etc at 11.00am, on the M25, the M26 and the M20 was truly amazing! It was all moving at about 30 - 40 mph thankfully.

I really do apologise about bringing up travel and Brexit, on reflection I shouldn't have done it.

I keep looking when I get to the M26, because the Government were suggesting recently that they may turn this 15km motorway into a gigantic lorry car park as an overspill plus the single lane that could be used from the Channel Tunnel on the M20. Nothing started as yet! I wonder if the story was a hoax? The M26 is a two lane motorway which could be closed off at both ends, the suggestion was made that large gates could be fitted where it joins the M25 and where it joins the M20. If they did close it, it would offer about 60km of parking space. As I drove along it today I was thinking how many Portaloos would they have to order to satisfy the lorry drivers requirements? I wonder if its worth  investing some dosh in the Porterloo company?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 21:06:19, 29/11/18
Derisive snort. Come back when they’re at school.  ::)
Bet you can’t remember what you wore for the Coronation fancy dress competition!


I'm not that old  ;D
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 21:18:29, 29/11/18
I drove to Maidstone Kent today. I wonder how long it will be before our roads, certainly on the south, will have no more space to drive on? The number of cars, vans, lorries, etc at 11.00am, on the M25, the M26 and the M20 was truly amazing! It was all moving at about 30 - 40 mph thankfully.

I really do apologise about bringing up travel and Brexit, on reflection I shouldn't have done it.

I keep looking when I get to the M26, because the Government were suggesting recently that they may turn this 15km motorway into a gigantic lorry car park as an overspill plus the single lane that could be used from the Channel Tunnel on the M20. Nothing started as yet! I wonder if the story was a hoax? The M26 is a two lane motorway which could be closed off at both ends, the suggestion was made that large gates could be fitted where it joins the M25 and where it joins the M20. If they did close it, it would offer about 60km of parking space. As I drove along it today I was thinking how many Portaloos would they have to order to satisfy the lorry drivers requirements? I wonder if its worth  investing some dosh in the Porterloo company?


It's just Project Fear.


Mark Carney will be telling us we will all get sunburn next summer as clouds won't be able to float over the UK from the Atlantic or mainland Europe.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 00:46:23, 30/11/18

I'm not that old  ;D
That's the trouble with this forum - too many sprogs.  I went as a Speedway Rider - it was a thing in those days.  My good lady has a picture of her at a Coronation fancy dress party too.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: gunwharfman on 11:23:08, 30/11/18
When ever I'm in the pub the words that I hate most and I just switch off (I usually go to the loo) is 'Project Reality' and 'Project Fear.' I'm sure that these particular words have just been thought up by clever marketing people, which I think are designed so that loads of people across the country, irrespective of how they voted, can dismiss something that they either DON'T want to hear, or DO want to hear! I'm sure we had similar 'dismissal' words before Brexit, I've been trying to remember what they were but at the moment I can't!

The other word I hate as well is 'truth!'

When I hear 'Project Fear' and 'Project reality' or the word 'truth' as it relates to Brexit my brain tells me that its time to walk away!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Mel on 12:19:10, 30/11/18


Perhaps Admin could move this thread into a non walking section.


I nominate the Hikers Bar.



 O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 12:45:05, 30/11/18
When ever I'm in the pub the words that I hate most and I just switch off (I usually go to the loo) is 'Project Reality' and 'Project Fear.' I'm sure that these particular words have just been thought up by clever marketing people, which I think are designed so that loads of people across the country, irrespective of how they voted, can dismiss something that they either DON'T want to hear, or DO want to hear! I'm sure we had similar 'dismissal' words before Brexit, I've been trying to remember what they were but at the moment I can't!

The other word I hate as well is 'truth!'

When I hear 'Project Fear' and 'Project reality' or the word 'truth' as it relates to Brexit my brain tells me that its time to walk away!


So if all the above is correct, why did you start this thread?  It's pretty obvious where it would go.


If you are a leaver or a remainer, you will listen in an echo chamber.  It's what humans do, they watch, read, listen to, talk to whoever or whatever backs their position. 


"No proof is enough for a non-believer, no proof is needed for a believer"
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 13:08:39, 30/11/18
Sorry couldn't resist
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtPXKjwW0AAmaUq.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 13:15:17, 30/11/18
Oh, err sorry. My mistake, I was under the impression we were still in the EU.  Did we leave this morning.  Of course it is entirely possible because I have not had much of a signal all morning.


Wow it sure feels good doesn't it?


Or don't we leave for another few months, in which case we don't know what we got, do we?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 13:57:26, 30/11/18
You misconstrue.  I was thinking of https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/20/liam-fox-uk-eu-trade-deal-after-brexit-easiest-human-history and what Treeza came back with.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 14:27:13, 30/11/18
You misconstrue.  I was thinking of https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/20/liam-fox-uk-eu-trade-deal-after-brexit-easiest-human-historyand (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/20/liam-fox-uk-eu-trade-deal-after-brexit-easiest-human-historyand) what Treeza came back with.


So it's not what we got then is it?


This is what I mean about an echo chamber. You want to remain, and even when something is just plainly factually incorrect, you still say "it's what we got".  You even post a picture saying it, so there is no confusion that is what you said.


But it's wrong, if it had said 'this is our current offer from the EU' that would have worked.


What you posted is more Project Fear!
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: tonyk on 14:27:42, 30/11/18


I nominate the Hikers Bar.



 O0
I nonimate the Trash Bin.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 15:31:00, 30/11/18
Sorry couldn't resist
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtPXKjwW0AAmaUq.jpg:large)


 O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: gunwharfman on 15:36:26, 30/11/18
OK I admit it I did allow myself to be tempted by the beauty of the subject. I will not contribute again on this matter, I promise!

I'll just carry on looking for clues or evidence that will help me decide when or if I can book to go to France next year without any difficulties.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 15:59:30, 30/11/18
OK I admit it I did allow myself to be tempted by the beauty of the subject. I will not contribute again on this matter, I promise!

I'll just carry on looking for clues or evidence that will help me decide when or if I can book to go to France next year without any difficulties.


That's easy.  Book away.


Neither the EU nor the UK government are suggesting we shut up shop and let no-one in or out.


If you want evidence of this, then look at the websites of EasyJet, BA, Lufthansa, P&O, Brittany Ferries, Air France, Peak Retreats, TUI, ....oh I could go on forever.  All of them are taking bookings into Europe for beyond the end of March next year.


I can absolutely guarantee that Europe will not be shut next summer.  Have a lovely holiday.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 16:07:27, 30/11/18

So it's not what we got then is it?


This is what I mean about an echo chamber. You want to remain, and even when something is just plainly factually incorrect, you still say "it's what we got".  You even post a picture saying it, so there is no confusion that is what you said.


But it's wrong, if it had said 'this is our current offer from the EU' that would have worked.


What you posted is more Project Fear!
In simple English, "what we have got" is what we have now, at the moment, today: i.e. the offer Treesa is putting before parliament.  In your echo chamber your are hearing - what we are going to end up with.  I never said that.


I would have thought that as a Brexiteer you would be agreeing with me because if the NI back stop comes in to play, the UK cannot leave unless the EU agrees to it.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 16:22:54, 30/11/18
In simple English, "what we have got" is what we have now, at the moment, today: i.e. the offer Treesa is putting before parliament.  In your echo chamber your are hearing - what we are going to end up with.  I never said that.


I would have thought that as a Brexiteer you would be agreeing with me because if the NI back stop comes in to play, the UK cannot leave unless the EU agrees to it.


'What we have got (now)' is not the same thing as 'What we got'.   What we got is a very final statement.  What we have got now is admitting that it could change before the end of it all.


As a remainer I would have thought that you would agree with me, the deal is not all done yet, let's see what actually happens.




Anyway, enough of the nonsense, I am sure we agree that booking a holiday for somewhere in France next year is a perfectly safe bet.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 16:41:40, 30/11/18
It's all immaterial anyway.  Deal will be voted down in parliament.  They'll be another referendum.  We'll vote to remain.  Everything will go on as before except we'll have wasted a shed load of money  ;D
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 16:49:28, 30/11/18
I am sure we agree that booking a holiday for somewhere in France next year is a perfectly safe bet.
Oh yes.  Ryanair operate Irish registered aircraft so they are an EU airline.  EasyJet has opened a headquarters in Vienna as a result of Brexit and are converting their pilots and crew to EASA licences so they will be an EU airline, BA is part of International Consolidated Airlines Group S.A. headquartered in Madrid so is already a EU airline provided they convert their pilots and cabin crew from UK to EASA licences and while P&O are British based they are owned by DP World based in Dubai so should already be covered by existing agreements with the EU.  Gunwharfman ought to be alright if the UK government is agreeable and I can't see a reason why they wouldn't be.  Of course Treesa wants the UK to "align"(whatever that means) with EASA rather than being a member so that will have to be sorted during the transition period.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 17:23:47, 30/11/18
It's all immaterial anyway.  Deal will be voted down in parliament.  They'll be another referendum.  We'll vote to remain.  Everything will go on as before except we'll have wasted a shed load of money  ;D


What if remain win 52%-48% ?


Do we go again?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 17:32:45, 30/11/18
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 17:46:21, 30/11/18
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/ (https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/)


That is useful, you have linked to something that shows something different to the question that is at hand.  It isn't a poll about whether we should leave or remain, but a series of polls from various different organisations asking a different question!


You clearly voted remain, the accusation about leavers is often that we didn't know what we were voting for.  Can you tell us what you were voting for when you voted remain?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: ninthace on 18:25:15, 30/11/18
Maggot, if or when the mods move this thread to the Hikers' Bar I will debate with you further.  Suffice to say I speak 3 European Languages competently enough to debate with them and watch their TV. I have lived and worked in 2 other European countries for 3 periods for a total 10 years and on 2 of those occasions close enough to the borders to be able to shop regularly in a total of  6 countries.  I have holidayed or visited a total of 13 European countries and have seen what the forced division of a country as a result political differences is like at first hand and in detail.  My family and I have been terrorist targets to the point where my children, who were of preschool age at the time, knew how to search out car for bombs as a result of political divisions.
I like to think as a result I have some perspective of the pros and cons being in the European Union and at least a sketchy understanding of the difficulty of unravelling it.  When the referendum took place I was in Austria at the time and I predicted the current mess at that time to the guests at the hotel we were staying at.  Most of them were from the former East Germany which says volumes in itself had you seen the obscenity of the Inner German Border.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 18:42:03, 30/11/18

What if remain win 52%-48% ?


Do we go again?


No, and the same if leave win. Both sides will know the vote was based on fact not the fiction of last time.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 00:32:34, 01/12/18

No, and the same if leave win. Both sides will know the vote was based on fact not the fiction of last time.


What did you vote for when you voted remain?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 00:44:27, 01/12/18
Maggot, if or when the mods move this thread to the Hikers' Bar I will debate with you further.  Suffice to say I speak 3 European Languages competently enough to debate with them and watch their TV. I have lived and worked in 2 other European countries for 3 periods for a total 10 years and on 2 of those occasions close enough to the borders to be able to shop regularly in a total of  6 countries.  I have holidayed or visited a total of 13 European countries and have seen what the forced division of a country as a result political differences is like at first hand and in detail.  My family and I have been terrorist targets to the point where my children, who were of preschool age at the time, knew how to search out car for bombs as a result of political divisions.
I like to think as a result I have some perspective of the pros and cons being in the European Union and at least a sketchy understanding of the difficulty of unravelling it.  When the referendum took place I was in Austria at the time and I predicted the current mess at that time to the guests at the hotel we were staying at.  Most of them were from the former East Germany which says volumes in itself had you seen the obscenity of the Inner German Border.


Yad yad yad yah.....


I also speak three European languages, and could make a passable attempt at a 4th, although to be fair the citizens of Spain would probably jut stare at me!


I didn't have children when I had to check my vehicle for bombs.


I have had many trips to the IGB.


What the hell has any of that got to do with Brexit?


The IGB went in the 90s, people still speak their own languages, you are stuck comparing 2018 with 1988.  The world has changed and the people have changed with it.  The issues at stake now are much more to do with economics than bombs.  The people involved are much more likely to be YouTubers than terrorists, the main contentious issues are are less about language and more about algorithms.


At the bottom of this is a referendum that promised the winner takes all.  Remain lost, Leave takes all.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: pauldawes on 06:33:32, 01/12/18

I suppose it is a fair point that if remain had won, there would be no talk of compromise then. We would not have followed some of the EU regulations, or exited the EU for a third of the year each year...


But let me put what seems to be a radical thought. There were good reasons to stay in, and good reasons to come out. (And daft reasons for both as well.) The case for and against was quite close...that was why the vote was so close.


And yet when Radio 5 on “Friendly Friday” invited people to phone in and volunteer “one good argument the side you didn’t vote for put forward” caller after caller struggled.


Remainers failed to put forward one good argument to leave, and Brexiteers struggled to quote a good reason to stay. (As always there were exceptions...but very few.)
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Mel on 06:45:26, 01/12/18
Meanwhile, in other non-walking related news, former President George Bush dies at the age of 94.  England beat Uganda in the women's netbball, and today's weather will be mainly cloudy with some sunny spells and patchy rain.



Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: sussamb on 08:16:33, 01/12/18

What did you vote for when you voted remain?


What we have. Fact not fiction.  Brexiteers say this deal is Brino, Brexit in name only, so they don't like the deal either.  No ''side' is happy which is why it will fail, only solution is to ask the people again.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: bricam2096 on 08:30:14, 01/12/18
Meanwhile, in other non-walking related news, former President George Bush dies at the age of 94.  England beat Uganda in the women's netbball, and today's weather will be mainly cloudy with some sunny spells and patchy rain.

Sounds reasonable weather to be out and about. Maybe some people should be doing that instead of droning on about political subjects....ah, one can dream
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:38:02, 01/12/18

I've reported this thread to the moderators as I do not want the poison generated by Brexit to infect these pages.


Hopefully they will move it to Hikers Bar, or delete the lot.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: jimbob on 09:19:36, 01/12/18
Of interest to walkers is Galileo. Read up on the minsters resignation speech.

The money we have spent plus the money we will have to spend on its replacement is greater than the lie printed on the side of the bus touted by our EU passport holding politicos Boris and Nigel.

By the way the documents ( both the  divorce settled and the future political aspirations) are freely available. They make extremely interesting reads;. It is clear most comentators (that's MPs and reporters) have not read either.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: bricam2096 on 09:38:40, 01/12/18
Just started December and already I'm fed up and waiting for the clocks to change and longer days to get out walking  O0

what do people have planned for 2019?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Jac on 09:42:15, 01/12/18
I've reported this thread to the moderators as I do not want the poison generated by Brexit to infect these pages.


Hopefully they will (move it to Hikers Bar, or) ......................................delete the lot.

O0
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 10:05:19, 01/12/18

What we have. Fact not fiction.  Brexiteers say this deal is Brino, Brexit in name only, so they don't like the deal either.  No ''side' is happy which is why it will fail, only solution is to ask the people again.


So you voted for nothing to change from where we are now?


Bearing in mind that change is a constant in the world of the EU, you are going to be stuck there.  Now we have 28 countries, that will change soon, which isn't what we have, so you didn't vote for that.  There is serious talk of an EU Army, we don't have one of those, so you didn't vote for that.  More countries joining the Euro, you didn't vote for that as that is not what we have.  Changes to the fisheries policy, agriculture, working time changes, you didn't vote for that.


So what exactly did you vote for?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 10:10:49, 01/12/18

And yet when Radio 5 on “Friendly Friday” invited people to phone in and volunteer “one good argument the side you didn’t vote for put forward” caller after caller struggled.


Remainers failed to put forward one good argument to leave, and Brexiteers struggled to quote a good reason to stay. (As always there were exceptions...but very few.)


It's the echo chamber thing.


I do a lot of cycling, and I guarantee if you got a mountain biker, a walker and a horse rider in a room and got them all to discuss rural paths, who should have priority on woodland rights of way etc we would all entrench in and discuss how rude and arrogant each of the other groups are!


After all, if you have a well constructed and logical argument in your head, why on earth would you admit that bits of it may be wobbly and even wrong?
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Maggot on 10:12:15, 01/12/18
I agree though, maybe this thread should be moved into the Bar?


It isn't really a General Walking Discussion anymore, and it does alter the vibe of this part of the forum.
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: bricam2096 on 10:16:21, 01/12/18
I agree though, maybe this thread should be moved into the Bar?


It isn't really a General Walking Discussion anymore, and it does alter the vibe of this part of the forum.

so stop replying and keeping the "debate" going then  :P
Title: Re: Is Brexit affecting your 2019 hiking plans?
Post by: Chris on 10:32:52, 01/12/18
Topic is locked, pending removal. We don't have a board for serious non-walking topics, especially contentious ones.