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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: Man wae a dug on 14:19:50, 23/09/19

Title: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 14:19:50, 23/09/19
I've been looking into tents but have to concede I am completely flummoxed by the range, terminology and where it fits into my requirements.
I'm thinking winter might be the best time to make this purchase as stores try and shift old stock to make way for new so thought it prudent to ask folks on here for a wee bit of advice on the subject.


Ideally I want a cheap, strong and lightweight tent with enough room for both my dog and I. I'm well aware all 3 might not be achievable and I'll probably need to make allowances. It will mostly be used in Southern Uplands (wild), campsites (Arran and the likes) and be future proof to undertake the West Highland Way.


I've spotted a few I think might fit the bill but as I say I'd be buying blind with no previous experience or knowledge to draw on. As such, understanding the styles, materials and waterproof capabilities (I though it was measured as HH ?) are like learning a new language.


What I'm looking for is a tent that will be suitable for the following:


Be robust enough to stand up to Scottish weather (3 seasons, so that'll be heatwaves and snowstorms really! lol ) .....and midges! Sturdy enough that I wont be constantly worrying about getting wet or blown away!
Have a porch with room to store kit and dry off my dog.
Not be obscenely heavy. I think around 2Kilo (prefrably less) would be ok for carrying, bearing in mind I'd be carrying food, water etc for dog as well.....ultimately on WHW (then if successful the EHW) but mostly on 2 day hikes.
Have enough room for inside for both of us; I'm 6'1" around 17 Stone and the dog's medium sized.
Be easy to pitch (I think outer and inner together is best here? or at a stretch outer first?) on campsite and in the wild.
Be under £500 absolute max. I would far rather it was nearer £300 (so I can get a better sleeping system) but would stretch for something in the 'spectacular' area. It really would have to tick ALL the boxes for that money.


To reiterate: I would be far, far more comfortable spending nearer £300 if I can and would accept a compromise on weight here more readily than on sturdiness. But, if nearer £500 got me a MUCH, MUCH better option that would last better then I could save a few more pennies if required.


So do i need a tunnel or dome or semi-dome? One man or two? what waterproof rating do I need? free standing (whatever that means)? What makes should I be looking at and what should I avoid?


Here are the ones that have been popping up in my research that I think might be suitable. Does anyone have any experience with these or opinions based on their specs (for what I need)? Or do you have better suggestions that would fit my needs ? What reputable online stores should I be looking at?Again, any advice is most welcome.


These are ones that I've come across and noticed they get mentioned a lot:


Vaude Taurus UL 2
Big Angus Copper Spur
MSR (hubba bubba and elixirs? )
Terra Nova (Southern cross? )
Tarp Tent Scarp 1
Nordisk Halland LW2
F10 Xenon UL2


Thanks.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 15:32:55, 23/09/19

A lot to take in there!


If you are 6'1 and 17 stone, and have a dog, you might be better off going for a 2 man. Not all 1 man tents are the same in this respect though, so do your research. Do watch out for the length of the sleeping area - sometimes tent inners slope down making the last few inches unusable - look for vertical or near vertical ends to the inner. Not a problem for 5'6 me!


As for dome, semi geodesic or tunnel - I would say that good design and quality workmanship are more important. Tunnels are very simple to put up, but do rely upon getting the end pegs in solidly, whereas domes are self supporting which can be useful if you are finding it difficult to get the pegs in. Don't worry about waterproof ratings, it is just a number obtained under artificial conditions.


Avoid single skin tents (drip coffins), and tents with too much mesh on the inner: draughty and let in water if the fly touches the inner (report of the Hubba Hubba doing this on this forum recently). Ideally you should be able to control the amount of ventilation - I like a double layer mesh/solid door.


I'm in the market for an all season wild camping tent myself - I've pretty much decided upon the Nordisk Svalbard SI (Silicon nylon), a super tough tunnel tent, but I think that it would not be big enough for you and your dog - in particular, the porch is small. The Southern Cross looks like a good all rounder, tough and very easy to pitch, but I baulk at the price - especially if you were to go for the 2 man. Perhaps take a closer look at the one man version?


Happy tent hunting!


Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 15:35:06, 23/09/19
..continued...


Fly first or both together does have an advantage in wet weather. Having said that, I'm going for an inner first, but one that is very easy to pitch.


As for footprints - I'm not going to bother.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: gunwharfman on 16:49:12, 23/09/19
I agree with Richard. I'm also in the market for a new tent, I don't have a dog and I am not inspired by the stuff that's out there. I have a Marmot Pulsar 1p bought in 2014, it's very roomy for one, easy to erect, I can sit upright in it but its no longer made. My problem is that I cannot find anything that matches it or surpasses it.

I think if I had a dog I'd buy a 2 person tent with a door either side.

Have you had a look at www.outdoorgearlab.com, I find it very useful and wish the UK had a site like it.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 16:54:08, 23/09/19
I would buy a 2 person tent anyway, if you are a larger walker. I have had 2 sleeping I n the 2 person tent, but it was quite snug, even though my wife is under 5 feet tall. It was a perfect size for one camping in the Alps. I imagine that a medium sized dog combined with someone over 6 feet tall would make quite a tight fit in a 1 person tent.


Also, I would assume tents are similar to camera tripods: light, strong and cheap - pick any 2 from 3.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: mow1701 on 19:39:31, 23/09/19
A roomy one person might be Luxe Minipeak II or even hexpeak Got  spacious inners with large porches for gear and dog? Backpackinglight website
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: taxino8 on 19:45:13, 23/09/19

Might be worth having a look at this or one of their other models.
https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/tents/1077-cairngorm-200.html (https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/tents/1077-cairngorm-200.html)
Or this.
https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/tents/1043-f10-helium-ul-2.html (https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/tents/1043-f10-helium-ul-2.html)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 19:50:13, 23/09/19
Not a bad suggestion Taxino8 - although I have no experience of the Cairngorm.


Also take a look at the Helm 2 from Wild Country, Man wae a dug. Do take a close look at the inner length, though.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 19:51:41, 23/09/19
@Richardh1905 - Yeah, the Southern Cross looks to be perfect for my needs, but it's a bit rich for me I reckon. The one man would be too much of a squeeze unfortunately. I'm thinking (if I've done my research correctly) that tunnels are ok if the winds blowing the right way and give more room whereas dome/geodesic will be more stable all round but perhaps not as roomy? 
I'm after fly first or together as I figured if the fly was wet and still raining I could pack the inside away separately whilst still under the fly, I'm assuming that would be possible anyway.
The Nordisk tents look good.
Ignore the HH? Is that not a reliable template to judge them on?

@gunwharfman - I don't think I've come across that site yet, I'll give it a look. Thanks.  The door either side was one of the things that drew me to the Southern Cross, it would be very handy, gear one side and dog dried/cooking at other.

@bigfoot_Mike - Yeah, I reckon 2 person is the way to go; although the Scarp 1 was pretty big for a 1 person. Might get away with that but I can't find any and the site I saw it on has none in stock. :( 
Pick any 2 from 3, absolutely, it's just trying to get that balance right. I'm leaning toward taking the extra weight for the stability, just not sure what weight limit I should try to aim for.


@mow1701  & taxino8 -  I'll have a wee look at them, thanks.



I came across the F10 Makalu 2 as well, it looks pretty sturdy and I could probably manage with the porch, It comes in just under 2.5Kg though (so I'm thinking nearer 2.6 or 2.7 in reality), which is a wee bit heavier than the others, but maybe more stable? 
I know it's a tricky one to answer, everybody is different, but is that a reasonable weight to be carrying (alongside other kit) or way too heavy do you think?  I don't think I'd mind a bit of extra weight for a lot more stability and I could get that for nearer the £300 mark.

Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: taxino8 on 19:52:27, 23/09/19
Not a bad suggestion Taxino8 - although I have no experience of the Cairngorm.


Also take a look at the Helm 2 from Wild Country, Man wae a dug.
I have the Banshee Pro 300 and for the money it’s a very good tent but just a bit heavier but the quality of Vango is always very good.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:11:26, 23/09/19
Ignore the HH? Is that not a reliable template to judge them on?


Not in my humble opinion. It is based upon a laboratory test that bears no relation to conditions experienced on the hill. In particular, it gives no indication of how a fabric might behave once it has been folded up dozens of times, and is a bit worn.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:12:43, 23/09/19
@Richardh1905 - Yeah, the Southern Cross looks to be perfect for my needs, but it's a bit rich for me I reckon.


As I said, do take a look at the Wild Country Helm 2 - the poor man's Southern Cross. I was tempted by the Helm 1, but then I spotted the Svalbard.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 21:21:39, 23/09/19
@richardh1905 - I'll assume that they're all going to keep the water out then, and if the HH number is higher I'll look on it as insurance. The Helm 2 has been shortlisted. I do like the look of it, decent price and space; the weight might well be worth the trade off. Thanks for pointing me in the direction.
I'm assuming there'll be a trickle down in technology from the SC and I'm quite content to own the poor mans version if it does all I want it to do. lol.



I wasn't too keen on the Luxe or Hexpeak (I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the tents mind you). Had a look at the Vango banshee and F10 Helium (Helium and Xenon are interesting options worht considering) as well but so far I think my options could well be a choice between a cheaper (heavier) dome/geodesic type one, a more expensive (but lighter) tunnel or the F10 Makele.   I appreciate the heads up on them though.

I'm drawn toward a dome/geodesic type, I just think they might be more stable. And I'm assuming they'll be free standing (?) which could be a benefit when not in a campsite?  :-\


Again, thanks for the advice and if anybody else has any opinions I'd be extremely grateful.





Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 21:31:26, 23/09/19
I'm drawn toward a dome/geodesic type, I just think they might be more stable. And I'm assuming they'll be free standing (?) which could be a benefit when not in a campsite?  :-\

In my experience I have the most trouble getting pegs in on a campsite, ground can be rock hard, rather than when wild camping. Depends where you go, I suppose.


Regarding HH - any tent from a decent manufacturer will be waterproof enough. If you buy a silicon nylon tent, sealing the seams is recommended though (seems a bit lazy of the manufacturers not to do this themselves).
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 21:43:59, 23/09/19
Regards silicon nylon,  I'll keep that in mind........then come back and ask how to do it! :) The Helm 2 is Stormtex. Another reason to buy it.... :)


Would it be worthwhile getting the footprint do you think? Maybe for the wild camping?  :-\
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:56:15, 24/09/19
Footprints a waste of time for wild camping, in my opinion. But others may disagree....
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 07:59:17, 24/09/19
Stormtex is just a brand name for Wild Country's polyester flysheet fabric - means nothing.


I do think that I ought to take another look at the Helm 1 myself - it does look like a tough little tent.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:11:31, 24/09/19
deleted
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 08:27:40, 24/09/19
Was hoping to wait for the sales and gain more info in the process, might need to rethink that.
A decision between weight/cost is needed I think, just want to make sure what I get will be sturdy and durable.

I’ve had the idea of filling my rucksack with weights to get an idea of what weight I’d be ok with, then working out a rough weight of the rest of the kit I’ll need......mind you those old timers seemed to manage ok before titanium pots and all that malarkey. Maybe I’m overthinking things here. :-\
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: gunwharfman on 10:05:06, 24/09/19
My Marmot Pulsar 1P footprint is useful because when it's raining when I arrive on site it means I can erect the outer tent first and the inner second which then stays dry for me to get into. Mind you, my footprint is not essential, I can carry out the same procedure with two looped bit of string as well, strung between the pole ends. The poles just need tension on them to stay upright whilst I put the outer tent up.

There are some problems I can't solve unless I go on a spending spree, which I'm not about to. These are the weight of my rucksack, boots, tent items, the weight of my mattress, sleeping quilt, pillow and say 2L of water. They are a constant, its all the other stuff I carry which I can play around with, clothing, gadgetry, food, etc which can make the difference between carrying a heavy bag or a lighter one. My rule of thumb is to never carry more than two items of the same thing, baselayers, socks, underwear and so on. I don't cook en route so for me, that's a weight saving even before I walk out of the door.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 10:38:21, 24/09/19
I've just fired off an enquiry to Terra Nova asking them whether they have discontinued their Helm range of tents.


Be interesting to see what their response is.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 10:57:40, 24/09/19
Just received this from Terra Nova regarding the Helm range of tents, very fast response:


Unfortunately the Helm range tents are currently unavailable until the beginning of next year when the new season launches.The Helm isnt discontinued and will be included in next seasons tents. Im sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Kind Regards,Chev
Sales and Customer Service Team
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 11:17:06, 24/09/19
I'd be interested to know too.

Well, I've completed my 'scientific' research with barbell weights(!) into what I reckon I could carry for now and not grumble too much. Not including the 1.65Kg Lowe rucksack I just got, I'm thinking 15Kg (16.5Kg total) would be the limit, I could carry more but think I'd be wiped out pretty early. I'd aim for less obviously and would defo be looking to reduce it a fair bit before tackling the WHW.

That said, the 2.5Kg Makalu 2 would possibly be an acceptable weight I reckon, I've mailed Vango to find out the packed dimensions. For an extra £100 I could get the Nordisk Halland 2 at 1.5Kg though. Would that be a better, more robust option even though it's a tunnel?   :-\  Aaaaaaargh!!!!  Why do they make so many bloomin tents!!

The 50cm length of the Helm 2 (which is a preference at the moment) would fit in my pack but would probably mean I couldn't utilise the side entry as i'd like (planning to use that to access the tent in the rain without opening up the top).  Not sure if that could be a deal breaker or not.




Bloomin' 'ell I'm getting confused here.  :D




Quick response from Terra Nova there, always a good sign.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 11:19:49, 24/09/19
Everyone is different, but 15kg is quite a load, in my opinion. I carry about 11kg on shorter trips, and I've not got super lightweight gear.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 12:01:17, 24/09/19
Yeah, It was only to give me a wee idea. Trying to tie in a number with how it feels on my back.


For now, as a very rough calculation if I want to come in around 11Kg; I reckon if i add 2 kilo for water, 2 for food and 1 for miscellaneous (map, compass, torch, glasses etc) I'll have around 5 Kg to play with for my tent, sleep system, stove and spare clothes. 


I'll have a look online at what I think I'll be getting later and add it all up to see where I'm at in terms of weight.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: alan de enfield on 12:34:35, 24/09/19
Yeah, It was only to give me a wee idea. Trying to tie in a number with how it feels on my back.


For now, as a very rough calculation if I want to come in around 11Kg; I reckon if i add 2 kilo for water, 2 for food and 1 for miscellaneous (map, compass, torch, glasses etc) I'll have around 5 Kg to play with for my tent, sleep system, stove and spare clothes. 


I'll have a look online at what I think I'll be getting later and add it all up to see where I'm at in terms of weight.

Building up to my 1st Pennine Way walk I would practice using a 20 litre water carrier (in my rucksack) with ever increasing amounts of water until I was happy with it full (20kgs) and able to comfortably do 20 mile days.

My current '3-day rucksack' with 3-days food, clothes, tent, gadgets and everything comes in at 31 lbs (14kgs).
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 14:32:25, 24/09/19


My current '3-day rucksack' with 3-days food, clothes, tent, gadgets and everything comes in at 31 lbs (14kgs).


Alan,  what make of 'essential' kit do you carry (tent, bag, stove etc)? It might help give me an idea of what to be looking at.  No probs if it's a hassle to post it up, but no harm in asking. :) 






Tent is looking like a 2 horse race between the Makalu 2 @ 2.6Kg (more robust I reckon) and the Helm 2 @ 2.3Kg (half the price).
 
Helm - smaller footprint, much better porch option, better price and weight.
Makalu - larger footprint, smaller but workable (I think) porch looks to be the sturdier option and will allow outer first pitching as well as both together, handy if the outer is wet as it would let me pack the inner separately (keeping it dry). 


I'm getting closer to a decision! lol


Terra Nova, F10 and Nordisk all replied to my requests for info promptly. Kudos to all three.  O0


Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 16:02:03, 24/09/19
Makalu looks very like the Wild Country Trisar - I have an early version of the Trisar, it has been a good tent but it is showing it's age now.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 16:04:52, 24/09/19
I have to say that I have an aversion to tents that have a curved pole with a peak in them, as in the front pole of the F10 Makalu - a point of failure, in my experience. Or maybe I was just unlucky.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 18:46:37, 24/09/19
I'm (possibly naively) working on the assumption all the tents have passed stringent quality controls.  It's actually the lack of info/reviews on the Makalu that is making me think twice (I've looked at a few for the Helm 2), that and the extra metre in length. I reckon finding a 2M strip of suitable land will be easier than a 3M one. 


225 cm interior length is the same on both, should be ok for a 6 footer.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:47:30, 24/09/19
I reckon finding a 2M strip of suitable land will be easier than a 3M one. 

225 cm interior length is the same on both, should be ok for a 6 footer.


Being able to squeeze onto a small bit of flat ground can occasionally be critical to the success or otherwise of a wild camp. Was certainly the case when I camped by the shore of Loch Coire an Lochan on the north flank of Braeriach in June - the loch was surrounded by bouldery chaos, but I managed to squeeze my modest tent onto the only small flat bit of grass available. A stunning spot, too - Trip report HERE (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=38681.0) if you are interested.


And do be careful when going off the inner measurements - does the inner slope down at a steep or shallow angle - if the latter then this will encroach upon sleeping space. I wouldn't have thought that this would be too much a problem in the Helm, as the ends look pretty steep, but I'm not so sure about the Makalu.


PS - the tent by the lochan is the one that broke at the peak.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: alan de enfield on 08:11:09, 25/09/19

Alan,  what make of 'essential' kit do you carry (tent, bag, stove etc)? It might help give me an idea of what to be looking at.  No probs if it's a hassle to post it up, but no harm in asking. :) 


Tent = 2-man Chinese copy of the MSR Hubb-Hubba at £75 instead of almost £400. Quality exceptional. Weight 1.88kgs complete with extra pegs, spare nipples, wooden toggles and pole joint repair kit.

Bag = Berghaus 65 litre for 3+ days and a Regatta Advance 25 litre for 1-2 days.

Stove = Gas 'mini' 'rocket' type that screws directly onto the gas cylinder. Boils 1 litre of water in 4 minutes 30 seconds and uses 15g of gas. A 100g gas cartridge will boil around 7 litres. Stove weight 45 grams

Cooking Pots = Titanium 750ml 'pot' and small Titanium Frying Pan

Sleeping bag = OEX Helios Down bag  (+3*C / -3*C / -19*C)

Sleeping mat = Exped Down mat 7M

Food = 2000Kcal per day, typical menu would be - Breakfast Porridge, Lunch Flapjack bar (+ Cup of Soup in Winter), Dinner Scrambled Egg, Ham & Potatoes, Rice Pudding, Supper Cocoa sachet, Small bar of chocolate, 3x Brew-Bags (Tea bag, dried milk, sweeteners) Extra Flapjack for mid afternoon 'pangs' Total = 590 grams


(https://i.postimg.cc/QB1Z6FPL/A1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QB1Z6FPL)


(https://i.postimg.cc/rzh3NGm0/A5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzh3NGm0)


(https://i.postimg.cc/cKnTwYz3/A4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKnTwYz3)


My tent is green but same model.

(https://i.postimg.cc/dkJd3ycw/C8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkJd3ycw)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:44:19, 25/09/19
I may have asked this before Alan, but what is the make and model of your tent?
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:49:42, 25/09/19
If you are looking to pinch a bit of weight on short trips, mwad, consider leaving the stove at home. And the bowl, spoon, mug, pans etc! Oatcakes, dried sausage (kabanos, salami etc), squirty or smoked cheese, vegan pate in a tube makes a satisfying calorie packed meal. And those porridge bars for breakfast (eg Stoats - yum). Dried fruit and nuts for the trail. All high calorific content.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: alan de enfield on 09:21:09, 25/09/19
I may have asked this before Alan, but what is the make and model of your tent?

It is a Wolf Wise but I think the same tents are sold by 'others' (typically 'Mongar' by Naturehike)

Prices vary Mine was £75 from Amazon but there are dozens of different prices on ebay from £90 upwards

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Naturehike-Mongar-2-3-Person-210T-Double-layer-Tent-Camping-Waterproof-3-Season/233343986493?hash=item365462ab3d:m:mbyjSTW_pU4zNfyCj7ik0yA

I actually ended up with two for £75 when they sent me a free of charge replacement because one of the pole nipples was the wrong size (I replaced it for about £2 with a nipple off ebay)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 09:56:02, 25/09/19
Thanks - not the one for me, but interesting, nonetheless.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 12:33:05, 25/09/19
All this talk of tents is making me look again.


I do like the look of the Nordisk Svalbard SI, but I've just spotted the Terra Nova Southern Cross 1 for £400.


https://www.uttings.co.uk/p122703-terra-nova-southern-cross-1-tent-43scr10/#.XYtPtG5FwdU (https://www.uttings.co.uk/p122703-terra-nova-southern-cross-1-tent-43scr10/#.XYtPtG5FwdU)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 15:50:42, 25/09/19
@GWM - Yeah, I'm thinking one of everything (except socks, ye need spare dry socks) will suffice for a couple of nights camp.  Might need extra boxers when I tackle the WHW though. lol

@richard - I'll have a wee look at your report later, thanks.
I'm still no nearer a decision but did manage to find out that both my favourites can  probably be pitched outer first due to the way they join the fly sheet. I'm assuming it'll be a simple case of clipping them onto something as I've seen on pitching vids for other models.  
I done some cursory research into the poles on the Makalu as well, Yunan seem to get a good press so I'd be happy enough risking the gothic arch thing. But thanks for drawing my attention to it.
I'm now trying to work out which of the two have the steeper sides. The Makalu (from the photo) seems to come up a little way before curving to the top, but it's not as high as the Helm. The Helm seems to curve up more or less from the floor, but it's height might lessen the angle (if my long forgotten physics...or maths is correct).
A decent pitching vid of the Makalu would help me! As a consequence, even though I reckon it looks tougher the fact I could get a tent half the price plus a half decent sleep system for the same weight looks like winning the argument. I just wish I knew if the Helm could be pitched outer first as well as both together (keeping the interior dry would be so much easier if it were), that could probably settle it once and for all.
The packed length is not an issue now, only the Nordisk would be substantially smaller.

As for food, yeah I'd be happy enough with cold sausage etc....or a huge slab of cheese! :) But, I need my tea through the day and coffee in the morning. But I'll happily eat out of the pot so I've saved on the weight of a bowl already.  ;D


@Alen - Thanks for posting it up, nice to see what the weight you mention looks like, I appreciate it.  O0 I'll have a look at the sleep system, stove etc later. I felt the hubba hubba wasn't for me (inner pitch first) but that looks a cracking tent for the money.  
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 16:30:10, 25/09/19
Why don't you ask Terra Nova about pitching outer first? Their customer service is pretty good.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: alan de enfield on 17:37:35, 25/09/19



@Alen - Thanks for posting it up, nice to see what the weight you mention looks like, I appreciate it.  O0 I'll have a look at the sleep system, stove etc later. I felt the hubba hubba wasn't for me (inner pitch first) but that looks a cracking tent for the money.


Just for info (correction) the Hubba Hubba (and its copies) are EITHER pitch inner first, or pitch fly-sheet first then you can pitch the tent 'in the dry'.

If it is a warm and dry night you can just pitch the flysheet ONLY to 'keep the dew off you', just use the 'footprint' (230g) or even pitch it for your lunch break / afternoon nap (it literally takes 3 or 4 minutes) if the Sun is too hot.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 17:43:32, 25/09/19
I did.   They replied 'To confirm the Helm 2 pitches outer first - outer and inner together'.  I reckon the additional 10cm height will make a difference as well, even at the Helm 2s 105cm sitting up perfectly straight could be tight.  Reckon that's the decision made though (unless I spot something competitively priced but lighter in the interim), time to do a little online price comparison and decide whether to gamble on waiting for sales. 

Are Terra Nova/Wild Country pretty reputable tent makers then, I'm assuming the Helm 2 will be tough enough for Scottish 3 seasons?  F10 Makalu defo looks like it is.

Thanks again for the advice. (still not had a chance to have a look see at that wee report). 
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 17:45:03, 25/09/19

Just for info (correction) the Hubba Hubba (and its copies) are EITHER pitch inner first, or pitch fly-sheet first then you can pitch the tent 'in the dry'.






Aw naw!  Might need to look again now.  :-\  lol




Thanks for the info Alen. O0
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 17:46:20, 25/09/19
You do need the footprint to pitch the Hubba outer first, I believe.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 17:47:06, 25/09/19
Terra Nova/Wild Country are a reputable manufacturer who offer a good after sales service - I was able to get an equivalent replacement pole for my 1990's Trisar.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: alan de enfield on 18:28:35, 25/09/19
You do need the footprint to pitch the Hubba outer first, I believe.

Indeed you do - but - the "Mongar" (etc) come with a footprint as part of the package / price.
The MSR footprint is £35 extra to the tent price (£445 at Cotswold)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 18:40:06, 25/09/19
@richard - I read your report (had skimmed through it looking at the pics yesterday), good read.  Cairn Eilrig and Lairg Ghru (I'd enjoy a wander through there, think I prefer the valleys to the hills really) looked spectacular.

As I said on the thread, the beeb done a good programme on a walk around the perimeter of the Cairngorms; think I'd like to attempt some of it once I get my hand in on the Southern Uplands.  Some of those pics you put up sell me on the idea.

I'd have been tempted to cast a fly in the water at your camp (fish or non fish, I never caught them when I tried anyway!) it looked a cracking wee spot, very tranquil. That sunrise would have been glorious when the light caught the waters surface. O0


Edit: I'm talking nonsense, it was the ranaldsay thread I commented on after looking at the pics. The beeb done a programme on that as well, hence my confudlement.  ;D
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 18:58:17, 25/09/19
Thanks mwad. You would like Glen Feshie too.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 19:09:34, 25/09/19
I wont be going anywhere to enjoy the views! Can't find this tent for sale anywhere, everywhere seems to be sold out. lol   I'm in no rush for it anyway, I'll have to keep my eyes open.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 21:32:05, 25/09/19
Bit of a slip up on the part of Terra Nova - they'll be losing business.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 21:36:50, 25/09/19
This seems too good to be true - Helm 2 for £93.03

Cutmaxstore link removed.


No idea who these people are.


EDIT - AVOID!
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Pitboot on 21:42:27, 25/09/19
Have a look at the Trustpilot reviews!! ;D
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 21:46:33, 25/09/19
Have a look at the Trustpilot reviews!! ;D


Indeed - it was too good to be true! Always a danger sign when there is no physical address on a website.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 18:22:35, 26/09/19
Yep, back to the drawing board I think.  :(
I ’ll revisit my original list, take another look at them and do a bit more searching. Vaude look like they might be worth a closer look, or MSR (for the headroom and steeper sides).



Edit:  Has anyone used this site before?  I'm always wary of using sites I've never heard of.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 18:58:21, 26/09/19
Edit:  Has anyone used this site before?  I'm always wary of using sites I've never heard of.


If you are talking about Cutmaxstore, then just don't use it.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 19:02:23, 26/09/19
Oops. :-[  Forgot to post the link to the one I was currently looking at.  https://www.worldofcamping.co.uk (https://www.worldofcamping.co.uk)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 21:11:57, 26/09/19
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.worldofcamping.co.uk (https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.worldofcamping.co.uk)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:14:34, 27/09/19
After giving it much thought and deciding there's no such thing as the 'perfect' tent, I pulled the trigger and ordered this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Force-10-Makalu-Person-Tent/dp/B0799LNJ45 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Force-10-Makalu-Person-Tent/dp/B0799LNJ45)  I opted for what I felt was the more robust offering of those that I was interested in as I reckon the peace of mind it'll offer me (as a novice) will be worth the extra couple of hundred grams over the competition.

Done it through Amazon as I wasn't sure what online shops were reliable (Amazon gives you a bit of added insurance I reckon). 


Thanks once again for the advice I was given, it was very much appreciated.  O0
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 12:38:44, 29/09/19
Let us know how you get on with it.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:36:32, 29/09/19
Will do.  O0


It'll be next year before I even think about using it mind you;  I'm in the preparation/accumulation stage at the moment. ;D
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:51:38, 29/09/19
Why wait? I wouldn't be able to resist.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 21:06:42, 29/09/19
My dog is still too wee to be taking out and about on the hills, but more importantly I haven't got a sleeping bag etc sorted out yet. Well, I'm sure I've got a couple of T in the park / Glastonbury style bags (cheap and useless) kicking around...........but I aint going in them, probably still got empty beer cans and half eaten hot dogs in them! lol

I'm gonna set it up in the living room, check it over and  then pitch it out the back door as soon as the ground dries out a bit. So, I'll be able to comment on the tents ability to withstand the wind from a door opening at least.   :D
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: gunwharfman on 17:27:14, 30/09/19
I've been looking for a new tent for a while now, with criteria of a side entry, enough room to sit upright, fairly light in weight, easy to pitch and not too much cost (just less than £100, I can't see why I would want an expensive one?) and I keep getting drawn to the Robens Arrowhead. Apart from adverts, I've only managed to find one review, from a woman who says in essence that it's fine. Has anyone bought one? If so, what do you think?
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: gunwharfman on 17:31:35, 30/09/19
Have you had a look at the Robens Boulder 2 for you and dog? Two entrances.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 17:46:00, 30/09/19
The Arrow Head looks like a pretty capable tent for the money, gwm. Robens subject their tents to some pretty severe wind speed tests!
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: kinkyboots on 18:03:13, 30/09/19
I've been looking for a new tent for a while now, with criteria of a side entry, enough room to sit upright, fairly light in weight, easy to pitch and not too much cost (just less than £100, I can't see why I would want an expensive one?) and I keep getting drawn to the Robens Arrowhead. Apart from adverts, I've only managed to find one review, from a woman who says in essence that it's fine. Has anyone bought one? If so, what do you think?

Does a total price of £70.98 (£64.99 plus £5.99 Post) or less help to make up your mind for you?  ;)

Free Delivery is available on all orders over £75 and a further 5% OFF is available if you sign up to their newsletter and buy before midnight tonight. (see popup which appears just as you are about to leave the website)

https://www.leisureoutlet.com/tents/duke-of-edinburgh/outdoor-pursuits/150504-robens-arrow-head-single-berth-tunnel-tent (https://www.leisureoutlet.com/tents/duke-of-edinburgh/outdoor-pursuits/150504-robens-arrow-head-single-berth-tunnel-tent)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: fernman on 18:29:02, 30/09/19
Aargh, it's red! Plus it's an old tunnel tent design notorious for sagging in the middle.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: vghikers on 18:44:20, 30/09/19
Quote
Aargh, it's red! ...

I wouldn't mind that, after all my Big Agnes is orange and grey, but there's a much bigger problem (for me anyway, being right-handed): it's the wrong handedness!. As you lie inside on your back, the door should be on your left. This is true for almost all solo tents with one side door that I know of. The only other perverse example I've seen is one of the Terra Novas from a few years ago, a Photon I think.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 18:45:46, 30/09/19
GWM - Already ordered the F10 Makalu 2. I did look at a Robens tent, a 2 man one similar to the Terra Nova Laser design,  can't remember the name though. It looked decent enough, pretty sturdy and decent space. I might have shortlisted it if it wasn't for the weight, think it was just over 3Kg.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: kinkyboots on 19:01:47, 30/09/19
Aargh, it's red!

That's to attract the bulls but it's nowt a can of green spray paint won't put right.  ::)

Granted it's not one of those new fangled £1000 ultra lightweight plastic bags they try to sell as tents these days but what do you expect for £65!  ;D
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: fernman on 20:33:46, 30/09/19
there's a much bigger problem (for me anyway, being right-handed): it's the wrong handedness!. As you lie inside on your back, the door should be on your left. This is true for almost all solo tents with one side door that I know of.

Going off the main topic a bit, I know, but I don't wholly agree.
One way in which my Zephyros 1 differs from my previous end-entry tent is that I can sleep with my head at either end. Thus I can pitch the tent and if the ground's not quite level I can choose which way round I'm going to sleep.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: vghikers on 20:55:49, 30/09/19
Quote
... I can sleep with my head at either end...

Yes, now you mention it I'm sure there are some solo symmetrical tents like that, I couldn't think of one off hand. When there is a specific head end/foot end and one side door, the handedness is crucial to me  :)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 22:07:48, 30/09/19
Why should the door be on the left? I am very right handed and the door on the right would seem more natural to me. Maybe it depends on what side of the bed you get out of (normally the wrong side for me).
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: gunwharfman on 22:13:11, 30/09/19
Thanks for the tip to buy the Arrowhead, but I decided to wait, I often dither! And the other point is true as well about which side the door opening is on. The Arrowhead door opening for me is on the wrong side. When I get into my Marmot tent to sleep I lie on my left side and I face the door, so perfect for me. I've suffered from a hiatus hernia for about 10 years and to try to avoid the burning sensation in the lower part of my oesophagus I need to lie on my left side so the curve of my stomach is at its lowest point. When I'm camping I also have to take tablets to neutralise the stomach acid. I've learned to live with it. I can only turn onto my right side after about 3-4 hours when my food, beer etc has been digested properly. That's where my bivi is irritating when I get into it the zip opening is on the wrong side! I never thought of this problem when I bought it.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:46:49, 01/10/19
Never thought of the left or right handedness of tents before, but it is a consideration.
Not sold on the idea of side entry at all, to be honest,  but maybe that is just me being a stick in the mud.
And the colour of the Arrow Head is far from ideal for wild camping - I like to be inconspicuous.
Good tent for the money, though.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 16:34:42, 01/10/19
Tent arrived today. I set it up in the living room (much faffing about) to get a look at it before pitching it out the back properly (and getting much needed practice) when the ground dries up.  To be fair it was relatively straight forward and I should be able to fire it up pretty quick outdoors where I'll have a bit more space to work with.

First impressions are that I like it and think it'll serve my needs very well.
More than enough room for me and my wee dog, never had the porch pegged out, but stretching it out I reckon there's enough room to dry him off before he gets inside. There'll certainly be plenty of room for my kit. I can sit up in it with a little bit of clearance (and not just slap bang in the middle) and there's plenty room to lie out without touching the walls; that might change when I have a mat and bag but if it does there's ample room to lie at an angle. It doesn't appear to slope in too much, but as I never had it pegged out it's a rough guess based on it being pitched with poles only.
I'm thinking that when pitching it properly it might be an idea to peg one end (before bending the poles up) as an insurance against the wind blowing it away. Is that the normal way to go about pitching a tent?

Obviously I'll have to reserve judgement till I try it out, but as I say, first impressions are very good and I'm delighted with it.

It came with it's own stuff sack, I managed to pack it back down to 3 times the size it arrived and twice (not quite) the size of my rucksack.......so maybe I'll need to be less gentle when packing it away! lol


The pegs weigh 9gms (16 of the blighters!). Before it arrived I was planning to shave a little bit of weight by ditching the stuff sack and purchasing light pegs but I reckon 9gms must be pretty light weight anyway.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: alan de enfield on 17:43:46, 01/10/19



The pegs weigh 9gms (16 of the blighters!). Before it arrived I was planning to shave a little bit of weight by ditching the stuff sack and purchasing light pegs but I reckon 9gms must be pretty light weight anyway.

What type of pegs are they ?

I have found that pegs that come with tents are rarely suitable and are just supplied with the tent to achieve minimum weight and minimum cost.

If they are just 'wire' (like nails) then scrap them, if they are 150mm long then scrap them.

Personally I have found that pegs a minimum of 180mm length (with a couple of 200mm pegs for the windward end of the tent) and of the 'Y' or 'X' design as they provide more resistance to pulling out seem to suit me and most soil types.

Weight are 13g each.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBdVzGbf/s-l1600.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBdVzGbf)

Something like these :



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lot-10pcs-Outdoor-Titanium-Tent-Pegs-Stake-Nail-Hook-For-Camping-Canopy-Awning/193096175288?hash=item2cf56dceb8:m:mHWBmZRYFJ5ht8uapk5CCQw

Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 19:23:10, 01/10/19
They're Yunan 7375-T6 (or it could be 7075-T6....it's a bit blurry) 170mm long, V shaped with a little scallop just below a sort of half of a heart shaped cut away for the cord to be tied around.

I'd need to get some extra cord or something to attach to them so I can pull them out the ground I reckon. They've got a hole drilled into them so I'm assuming that's what it's for.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: vghikers on 19:25:57, 01/10/19
Quote
I have found that pegs that come with tents are rarely suitable and are just supplied with the tent to achieve minimum weight and minimum cost.

Agreed, I never use the supplied pegs. They are usually a poor choice, sometimes because they are totally useless on the hill (the worst offender being Terra Nova hairgrips) or, occasionally, because they are too thick and clunky.
I always take a variety of types to suit the pegging points, some thin and light where stress is minimal and some sturdy ones like MSR groundhogs for the guy lines on the windward side and the door.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: taxino8 on 19:36:33, 01/10/19
Agreed, I never use the supplied pegs. They are usually a poor choice, sometimes because they are totally useless on the hill (the worst offender being Terra Nova hairgrips) or, occasionally, because they are too thick and clunky.
I always take a variety of types to suit the pegging points, some thin and light where stress is minimal and some sturdy ones like MSR groundhogs for the guy lines on the windward side and the door.
Same here, I have actually developed an obsession with different types of pegs and now have quite a selection to choose from and take a variety with me.
I’ve even got four of the Delta Ground Anchor one’s and usually take at least two of those with me, rock solid but a bit awkward to pack due to their shape.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: alan de enfield on 19:40:14, 01/10/19
They're Yunan 7375-T6 (or it could be 7075-T6....it's a bit blurry) 170mm long, V shaped with a little scallop just below a sort of half of a heart shaped cut away for the cord to be tied around.

I'd need to get some extra cord or something to attach to them so I can pull them out the ground I reckon. They've got a hole drilled into them so I'm assuming that's what it's for.

7075 is an aluminium specification
7075-T6 is a Chinese part number for an Aluminium extrusion

By all means keep them but get a 'few' 200mm X or Y (profile) pegs to supplement them.

In hard rocky ground you need 'pins' in soft ground you need to present the largest surface area possible to minimise the peg pulling thru' the ground.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Warbler on 19:57:27, 01/10/19
7075 is an aluminium specification
7075-T6 is a Chinese part number for an Aluminium extrusion
7075 is indeed an aluminium specification.

7075-T6 means the aluminium has been solutionised and precipitated (heat treated) to a T6 tempered condition.

Apologies for the nerdiness.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:00:29, 01/10/19
Thanks for the advice.  O0   I'll maybe have a better idea what to do when I pitch it properly for the first time, but I'm thinking that a few longer X or Y shaped pegs for the guy lines and a couple each for the fly sheet and floor on the windward side might be a good starting point?


I'll probably do a couple of nights 'testing' in a camp site first, good excuse to nip over to Arran for a couple of days and do a small section of the coastal path. I need to break both myself and my dog in gently, then I'll get some pins for a wee wild camp in case I need them. I'm already planning my route for Merrick from Loch Trool for next year! 
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:31:22, 01/10/19
Dont throw away the pegs that came with the tent, mwad, maybe supplement them with a few angled pegs for soft ground.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:46:57, 01/10/19
Nah, I wont be throwing them away, reckon I'll use them and see how they go, but adding a few chunkier ones to strategic points seems a sound idea.


I can figure which ones to get nearer the time I'll be using them.........for now I'm moving on to dialling in my research on sleep systems. :)
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: ninthace on 21:59:10, 01/10/19
Don’t forget a peg for wee doggie.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: gunwharfman on 11:51:18, 02/10/19
Good point about 'sleep systems.' I used to buy a mattress, sleeping bag, pillow and sleeping clothing separately without regard to how they would work together.

When I realised the importance of harmony my comfort and warmth, etc improved considerably. So I thought groundsheet, tent base material, mattress, in my case a sleeping quilt, pillow, sleeping top and sleeping bottoms, if they work well together, great, if not I'm always going to be dissatisfied with my lot. I've now moved onto a sleeping overthrow blanket as well for the winter months. It should be a down sleeping overthrow blanket but I haven't found one yet at the price I want to pay.

I am also looking for some kind of cheap low weight rollable insulating material to go immediately under my mattress, again for the winter months. I remember someone wrote into the Forum a few months ago with a suggestion that B & Q may have a suitable item but I can't find the suggestion brand name at the moment.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: jimbob on 13:26:32, 02/10/19
I do remember radiator reflector foil being mentioned. If it was that and you want to pick it up rather than Web buying then may Screwfix or Toolstation might be cheaper than BnQ.
Title: Re: Tents for one......and a dog.
Post by: Man wae a dug on 21:00:09, 02/10/19
ninthace - A peg wouldn't hold him! A fence post and chain might be needed for that. ;D