Walking Forum
Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: titaniumdude on 10:41:06, 14/08/06
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Is gore tex all its cracked up to be? The label says "guranteed to keep you dry", but on a recent trip to the lakes mine did nothing of the kind. We did choose a rather wetweekend in Wasdale (is there any other kind of weekend in Wasdale? ;D) and I got soaked through to the skin. I have a Mountain Equipment paclite jacket which is only about 6 months old, gets used a lot, but is otherwise in good condition. Persevering I bought some nik wax DWR reproofer and used it as thye label says. This has improved the situation, but I noticed on a recent trip that the gore tex was wetting out quite quickly and I am sure some moisture made it through. A mate of mine says that even when it wets out it should keep rain out, but the breathability is reduced conciderably. My problem was definetrly not due to the breathability being reduced.
Has anyone had similar experiences with gore tex. I am going to persevere further and DWR treat it again, but I am beginning to think that the material is faulty.
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I have a Sprayway Goretex jacket that is about 10 years old and has always kept me bone dry. It has never been treated, and not particularly well kept, being shoved in the rucksack when not needed. So it sounds like something is wrong.
Your friend is right about the breathabililty suffering if the fabric is soaked, as the micropores get blocked, but it still shouldn't let the rain in, but you may get wet from internal condensation. For the same reason you have to be careful with any additional waterproofing agent you apply as these might also block the pores. Even when the pores are clear, it can only allow moisture through at a certain rate, so if you were marching up scarfell pike and sweating like a pig, you're still gonna get wet.
My jacket is 3 ply (the goretex layer is sandwiched in between 2 other nylon layers. Some jackets are only 2 ply and are more fragile, and heavy wear & tear could cause the goretex layer to break up and fail.
Check the seams as well of course.
Other than that it sounds like a manufacturing problem and should be returned I think.
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Thanks for that (from way back :)). On looking more closely at the different sort of gore tex available I think that it is not a fault in the jacket (it does well in short downpours ), but the nature of Paclite. From what I can gather it is the least breathable of the gtx materials being single (?) layer. If I wear it for short times it's great, but in continuous driving rain I find that I am getting damp if not wet. I did however wear a TNF baselayer with a polartec fleece under the jacket for 14 windy miles in the Peak District yesterday and found that Even though the jacket was damp on the inside and my fleece damp on the outside, my baselayer and skin were dry. What more could you ask I suppose. The jacket is a mountain equipment matrix by the way. I'm looking for a better one for winter now (the old berghaus summit leaper and bounder/or whatever has bit the dust). I think I'm gonna try eVENT fabrics after being a gtx sheep for years.............I think I feel a thread coming on :o
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The breathability on these jackets are not all that good(90%) and this is because of the black lining which is only on the PAC lite jacket. Where on the xcr jackets is a different lining which is said to be sliver which is a better breathability than the black lined on the PAC lite as for the waterproof side you should just send the jacket back to the shop where they can send it of for testing this can take up to two weeks and they won't give replacement jackets out. Also the mangerfactors are aware of the situation on the breathable jackets not sure if they are going to do anything about this
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After much 'humming and harring' on my part, mrs TD took the mountain equipment matrix jacket back to Cotswolds. They took one look and said 'It's delaminating'. Dunno what that means exsactly, but they've promised to replace the jacket once gore have had their chance to prove their diagnosis...........hm........this could explain why i was ssip wet through on sca fell and needed to change my top b4 descending
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Could be cause for debate but after wearing gortex for a couple of years i switched to event and i have never looked back, its wicking is so much better, its lighter and in short so much better.
let the floodgates open.
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I agree with the above, rab event all the way for me.
Im normally a tight git but the guy in the shop said the jacket i was looking at was the best, so i thought what the heck and bought it. It has kept me dry over the last 4 months which is not a long time i know, but still. My mate got a gortex jacket last summer and this let so much water in on a recent trip, i was bone dry! ;D
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Yep Rab Latok are my choice, they just work.
and heres the proof walkingforlife.piczo.com (http://walkingforlife.piczo.com)
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i cannot say i am to impressed with goretex eather, they allways seem to fail when you most need them and that could be very dangerous. i have since used north face HyVent and lowe alpine triple point and never yet had a problem with them. i think goretex is getting a bit to commercialized and are lacking on the performance side now, they need to make there mind up what they are making a jacket for eather mountain use are walking around London in a shower.
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Like Winnie I have a Lowe Alpine Triplepoint jacket. In fact I have two, a Triplepoint ceramic jacket and an ultra lightweight Triplepoint. Both have been well tested and have passed the test, but this isn't going to help anyone since due to the effect of the pro gore-tex marketing hype on customers, Lowe Alpine eventually succumbed and switched from Triplepoint to gore-tex.
Although I have nothing to compare it to as I don't have a gore-tex jacket and mine's only about 8 years old, the feeling when I bought it was that Triplepoint Ceramic had the edge because being ceramic, it was virtually indestrucitble.
S.
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I think I'm deffy an eVent convert now. Not only did I feel drier in my fairly newly acquired eVent jacket, but I also felt a little cooler which is a plus for me as I tend to run hot. Tried and tested in strong wind and rain on The Mamores. My gore tex pants on the other had let in rain through the rainproof zip at the knee and my entire legs were soaked. Worse still the rain then wicked down my sock and started up my fleece. In the market for new waterproof pants now and they will be eVent. Any suggestions?
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I swear by my Rab Event latok, i really did/do live in them and they have never failed me.
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Just had a look at those and they still have those water resistant zips which I have now fallen out with. Whats the stormflap like on the pants. The berghaus paclite stormflap is what the problem is I think as it doesn't protect the zip properly at the articulation points. Have been looking at montane eVent pants, but would like to see all of these in the flesh I think.
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Hand on heart, my rabs have took a pounding, from snow and ice to blazing sun and i have never had any problem with them, i think that once you get up close and personal, you will see ;D
If it helps i know a few of the guys at trail also swear by them, and if you combine them with the matching jacket, it is belived that you become spartan like ;D ;D
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I will keep this in mind next time I upgrade. I do like Rab gear on the whole though I still keep peeking at the montane spectra pant which does indeed look similar to the alpine latoks. In the meantime with fairer weather looming ( hope I haven't jinxed it ;D) I couldn't really justify shelling ( no pun intended) out another £100+ for waterproof pants. The paclites will suffice for day trips where getting soaked isn't such a problem and for those multi day trips I've just bought a pait of grade 1 ex army dpm goretex trousers for £20. N0 frills on these, just elasticated waste and trouser bottoms, no pockets or zips or nout. I'll let you all know if there any good and if they are it may just cause a stink seeing as they're a fraction of the price of the techy stuff.
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£20 cant be bad
i've heard some good reports for these pants :)
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Sorry to be a sceptic, Titaniumdude, but I rather fear that you will find that they are EX army trousers for only £20 because they are worn out and no further use to the army. They might be all right as overtrousers for fishing, or paintballing, but I'll be surprised if they keep your legs dry for long.
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I considered that possibility so I looked for reviews on other sites and found some very positive comments on outdoorsmagic (5/5 stars with half a dozen reviews, non negative). I then started a thread there and got all positive responses from regular users. Fortunately I also had the common sense to buy these from an ebay power seller who not only has a long standing ebay store, but his own web store and sells hundreds of items. He has 100% positive feedback on ebay and promises to satisfy rather than get a negative feedback if customers are not happy. Army surplus gear is all graded ranging from commercial new and second hand new (ie bought, but not used ) through to grade 3. Grade 3 being extensive wear and/or repair. In between there is super condition and grade 1 and 2. The pair I bought was rated grade 1 which according to the scale are ' used, with some signs of wear, but no significant wear/or repairs'. If this isn't the case I'm sure the seller will replace to avoid my negative feedback. At the end of the day they were sold as 'waterproof overtrousers' so if they don't fit this description I will push for a replacement. Should arrive soon so I'll let you all know. Furthermore I have, as I previously said, used army surplus extensively when I was younger and perhaps less able to afford anything else (I am trying hard to remember any disappointments, but can't) and always found the gear did exactly what it says on the box..
Oh yeah! And my £100 goretex pants didn't keep my legs dry for very long so they can only prove equal to some techy stuff at a fraction of the monetary loss.
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I hope you dont get offended but i disagree. :o
You can get some bargins, when buying old mil stock, alot of ex forces. come out with kit they no longer need or think they need and sell it on. Lets face it most of our mil waterproof kit does'nt get that used or hard use anyway :-X
In my humble ex booty opinion ;D
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Okay. Well got the ex army dpm goretex overtrousers and inspected them closely. Apart from some crud left over from the previous owners last yomp they're in perfect condition. Turned them inside out to inspect the taped seems and they're all solid. Washed them and inspected them again and to all intensive purposes they look new. The only damage was that the dwr had worn off and I've rectified this. The elasticated trouser leg seems fine. Still able to get them on over a boot cos it's not thet restrictive, but does perhaps negate the use of a gaiter except in poor conditions. Having said that they are very basic, no vents, zips etc. Definetely for a wet day rather than a shower and I imagine they would be warm under exertion. Weighed in (am I sad?) at 320g so not even heavy.
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Right ok, the pants were a bit of a digression from the original reason that I started this thread which was because I got repeatedly let down by my mountain equipment gore tex jacket. This got sent back to gore tex via ME and they have just got back after a month to say that the materail was indeeed faulty (which explains why I was ssip wet through after half hour on the Screes at Wasdale. They've now said they will replace it with another matrix (but in grey) or an Ogre jacket. What do folks think. Stay with the lightweight or go for XCR all round.
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Horses for courses as they say.
Personally I sweat a lot when mountain walking, and a full-on waterproof isn't much good as even the most breathable fabric can't disperse the volume of liquid I'm putting out so I end up wet anyway. I therefore always carry my lightweight during summer, and rely on the addition of a fleece when I stop and cool down.
S.
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I'm with you on that one. I run hot and always end up a bit damp. Already got a year round jacket in the superfly xt so this was a bit of a no brainer really (they threw me by offering a different replacement). So it's a new matrix cos I know it's gonna spend most of its time in my pack anyway with the guaranteed globally warmed weather. ;)