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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: Man wae a dug on 20:12:37, 17/09/19

Title: Daypack advice required
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:12:37, 17/09/19
Hi, new to this and I'm in the process of pulling some kit together so I can start taking my wee dog into the hills from next spring. I was hoping I could get some pointers on things I'm looking for. The plan is to get him out on some walks early next year (increasing duration) a few easy local hills and maybe a couple of days in Arran for Goatfell in summer to prep both of us for the West Highland Way the following spring.


I've got myself a Berghaus 5000 extrem vented jacket, Berghaus paclite over trousers, decent waterproof boots and some walking trousers sorted already (needed to get these for walking the dog anyway).

At the moment I'm looking into rucksacks.

What I'm now looking around for is a pack that will carry all the essentials for both of us on these walks (time wise think on us being out most of the day) but also (if possible) be capable of taking the requisite gear for an overnight in local hills (day out, night camping, day back), maybe enough to squeeze a sleeping bag in and attach a tent and mat externally if I couldn't cram it into a daypack?


I'm not wanting a full on massive pack for now, i'll get that (nearer the time when I'm ready for WHW) when I have a better idea of what I actually do need to carry and not what I think I need to carry if that makes sense?


My problem is I have zero idea of what makes are good, what ones give you most bang for the buck and which ones to avoid. Also, I have no idea what size in litres I'll need just now. 


I looked at Osprey and Lowe and sized myself using the app with Osprey as MD M/L if that helps?


All I know is I'd like a big outside pocket for my jacket and one of those ones that hold it away from your back (I will sweat a lot carrying it). Waterproof would be best (or a built in cover?) I'm not too fussed about the weight of this pack, lighter would be good but I'd be happy with a heavier one if it fulfilled my requirements. Do I need a built in water pack thingy? 


I'd be happy spending around £100 for one that will last me......happier spending less obviously lol.


The problem is there is way too many options out there, can anyone give me some advice on this please?   Thanks in advance.



Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Mel on 20:29:05, 17/09/19
I have an Osprey Tempest 20 (litre) rucksack for full on day walks in the hills.  Fits everything I need into it.  It has an outside stretchy pocket that I stuff my jacket into and an "airzone" back which flexes as you move so it keeps the air flowing on your back - I've found this more effective than the concave packs that hold the pack away from your back and they don't seem to have as much internal storage either. 




For you and your pooch for day walks I'd say look at 30 litre packs.


If it was me, I'd be looking at an additional pack for multi-day walks where I needed to carry a tent, sleeping bag, etc.



Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: gary m on 20:35:47, 17/09/19
I like a deuter rucksack, very strongly made, any of the good makes will give you a good bag. As Mel said a 30 litre bag is good for a long day walk, but I can't get all my gear in it for a night out. I have tried an osprey bag but I did not feel it was the bag for me, as I like a bag tight to my back
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: gary m on 20:37:17, 17/09/19
Ps Mel said a 20 litre which would be OK too, I had 30 litres to carry crampons etc
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Islandplodder on 20:49:44, 17/09/19
I have a Lowe Alpine airzone daypack, just been looking at it to see how big it is and it doesn't seem to say... I think it's about 20 litres and I use it most of the time for day walks.  I also have a Deuter 35 for when I have more stuff, winter, or if I am away for a couple of days.  I don't carry camping stuff.
The trouble is, the iseal number of rucksacks is one more than you already have.....
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:55:37, 17/09/19
Thanks Mel. I'll have a look around the 30 litre options.

Does the 'airzone' sit against your back or just off it? 

Yeah, I will be getting an additional pack for being away a few days, I was (maybe naively) hoping I could get away with one pack to cover a one night camp as well as using it for a day pack.

I had looked at Osprey,  are their rucksacks pretty good and capable of lasting a good few years?

@Gary M -   Thanks. Deuter is a name I hadn't heard of, I'll have a look at those as well.  I'd prefer a bag to be tight on my back myself, but I really need to lessen the 'back sweat' as much as possible. It'll have to be a trade off here as I know that I will get very hot n sweaty when walking so want to avoid the dark triangle on my back as best I can.  :)
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:57:37, 17/09/19
@ Islandplodder  -  The 'one is too many, a hundred is not enough' is what I'm hoping to avoid. lol
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Mel on 21:27:12, 17/09/19
Does the 'airzone' sit against your back or just off it?   



Sort of just off it but not visibly noticeably so.  Works better than concave for the reasons I said above.  And it certainly works better than a "flat" backed pack  ;D


I think sweaty backs of some degree are an occupational hazard of carrying something on your back.  Wear a wicking tee shirt - the material doesn't go dark like cotton and dries in the blink of an eye.


I had looked at Osprey,  are their rucksacks pretty good and capable of lasting a good few years?


I've had mine about 5 years - no real signs of wear apart from the sheep poo and grass stains.  The white bits are looking a bit grubby too  :-\   Yes, the material's waterproof but horizontal rain can get in through zips.  I still put things in plastic bags inside just to be on the safe side.  I have a hi-viz flourescent rain cover too which I got for free at work. I don't think I'd buy a rain cover though - especially given the price of them for what they are.







Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: WhitstableDave on 21:57:54, 17/09/19
Ah, a subject dear to my heart!  :)

I love buying new gear and if I can find something better than what I've already got, I'll get it.

But I've never wanted a new backpack because I've never seen or tried one that's better than the one I've got. It's a 30 litre one that I bought at Mountain Warehouse about three years ago for about £30 (certainly no more than that).

It's got an air-back (a curved mesh frame), belt pockets (flapjacks in the left, car keys in the right), and compartments of the right sizes in the right places. I can unzip/zip the lowest rear pocket to get or stow my hat without breaking my stride. It's perfect for me!  :)

Believe me, if I could find a better backpack with a walking-cred designer label for £100 or more, then I'd buy it. But I can't, so I don't.  ;)
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: sussamb on 22:15:24, 17/09/19
Look at the Lowe Alpine Airzone 35:45


This is basically a 35L sac with a floating lid, so can be extended to 45L when needed. I use it as a day sac and use the floating lid when I'm doing long distance walks.


It also has a 'spider' on the back, which will hold additional kit, it's where I stuff my wet waterproof when I take it off.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lowe-Alpine-AirZone-Backpack-35-45/dp/B00PLD3TL8
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Percy on 22:20:59, 17/09/19
Anyone suggesting you need a 35-45 litre pack for day walks is a nutter.


In the height of summer I can get away with an 11 litre pack. Admittedly it can be something of a squeeze.


I’ve also got a 22 litre pack which is absolutely ample for summer and all year round save the depths of winter.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: ninthace on 22:33:41, 17/09/19
I have an Osprey Kestrel 35 litre that I use as a daypack for 2 people.  Wee doggie will need a bowl and such and since he/she is wee, a doggie pack is out of the question, though I have seen larger dogs carrying their own kit.  Osprey packs are indeed very good quality and their after sales service is excellent too.  If you use poles, the Osprey pole stowage is good too and can be used without breaking step.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Dread on 22:37:34, 17/09/19
Fleece, waterproof, water, snacks, headtorch, camera, battery, sticks, map, glasses to read map, first aid, it all adds up. I have an Osprey Stratos 36 which I got as a cheap return, £42. They are around £100 new which is a bit steep. Nice pack, fits me nicely. No big pocket for your jacket though. I do have a smaller 25l which would do for day hikes but it doesn't fit as well so I prefer the bigger one.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Mel on 22:52:01, 17/09/19
So, as you can see Man wae a dug, we all have different sized and styled packs for different reasons, preferences and uses  ;D


My first "proper rucksack" was a 35ltr Lowe Alpine one.  I sacked that off because it was too big for my needs on general day walks (felt bulky and cumbersome for a rain mac and some sarnies) and I got my ponytail stuck in the back of it when I looked upwards  ;D


I've just thought of something else, a 35ltr pack might have been too big for me (at 5ft 5in) but if you're a strapping 6ft+ bloke then it might be a perfect size. 


WhitstableDave - I wish that Mountain Warehouse pack had been around when I was looking - sounds very similar to my Osprey. 


Edit: just seen Dread's reply re size/ratio
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: sussamb on 06:45:40, 18/09/19
Anyone suggesting you need a 35-45 litre pack for day walks is a nutter.


I guarantee I'm not  ;)


Just because its 35L you don't have to fill it. The advantage is that does me for day walks, overnighters and LDWs.  Saves cluttering up the house with a multitude of packs  O0
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Man wae a dug on 08:28:47, 18/09/19
Thanks for all the advice folks, it’s much appreciated.

@ Whitstable Dave – I’ve got a Mountain Warehouse soft shell, fantastic wee jacket. Too large (I went a size up as I wanted it baggy) and warm for me to use as a mid-layer though…….another item I’ll need!  I never even thought to look at them, defo worth consideration, if it does the job I’m not fussed about the logo that’s’ stitched on. 😊

@Sussamb – That could maybe work for me. 35 L for day walks and the 45 L for a one night camp. I’m assuming 10 L would give enough space to cram a tent, bag and mat inside?  Certainly one for me to short list.

@Percy – I’ve got a small pack I used for gym (not sure of its size though) unfortunately it’s nowhere near big enough to work for me and my dog. I meant to say I’ll mostly be using public transport, so I’ll need to carry towels etc for the dog as well.
 As this pack wouldn’t be for long treks (I’ll build up to them) I’m not too fussed if I have a little extra room.  When I go for a pack to use for WHW and 2 or 3 nighters etc I’ll defo not be wanting extra space, I’ll be wanting to keep the weight and pack size down. By then I should have a better idea of what kit I actually need and what size pack will take it.

@ninthace -  Yeah, I’m thinking collapsible bowl for water or one of those doggie water bottles with the built in bowl. He can eat his kibble from my hand! Lol  The Kestrel was one of the packs I had looked at before deciding to get advice.

@Dread -  Yep, I made a list of what I reckoned I would need (clothes, food, maps, flask etc and water for both (reckon that’ll be the largest/heaviest item I’ll be carrying); probably take up more space than I realise. I’ll be walking mostly in SW Scotland so even in a heatwave I’ll need to carry waterproofs, arctic expedition spec fleece etc! lol

@Mel – Yep, everyone’s different. I am 6ft + so 35L should be ok. 

Osprey and Lowe seem to be a favoured pack (usually an indication of quality) so I’ll have a closer look at them, Deuter and Mountain Warehouse and then draw up a wee shortlist to decide what’s best.  Thanks again. 😊
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Islandplodder on 08:31:24, 18/09/19
If you want one daysack to do everything it might be as well to go towards the 35 rather than 25litre sack.  As Sussamb says, you don't have to fill it.
One way forward might be to gather up all the stuff you usually take on a walk, bearing in mind that we are heading towards winter when you tend to carry more and bulkier stuff, and take it to an outdoor shop and see what size you need to fit it all in.  They are usually very helpful about encouraging you to walk round the shop with a load to see how comfortable it is, fiddling with the straps so it fits better and so on.
I have an embarrassing collection of packs.  One is an Osprey talon 33 which is nice and light for day walks but isn't particularly comfortable when full or heavy, so I don't use it much. It's main advantage seems to be that it fits into airline cabin baggage (even Ryanair) which means someone has usually borrowed it.  But it does point up how important it is to try on a pack when it's full of stuff.
So I end up with the little Lowe Alpine 20 (or thereabouts) in summer and a Deuter 35 in winter.  The only thing I have against the Deuter is that it is quite heavy even when empty, but I find it worth trading weight for comfort.
One feature I insist on, because I am paranoid about losing the carkeys, is a pocket with a clip to fasten them on.  Then the keys are always there and I don't have those moments of increasing panic going through every pocket of pack and clothing looking for them.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:55:02, 18/09/19
I have a friend who uses a 38 litre Osprey for day walks and short camping trips; I think the Kestrel. He loves it, but does have to strap his tent onto the outside.


For year round day walks on the hills, I would go for something around the 30 litre size.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:56:38, 18/09/19
but I find it worth trading weight for comfort.


^^ this. Always try on a rusksack before you buy, preferably with a bit of weight in it. One instance where buying from a shop trumps the internet (the other being boots).
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: richardh1905 on 09:01:22, 18/09/19
Too large (I went a size up as I wanted it baggy) and warm for me to use as a mid-layer though…….another item I’ll need!  I never even thought to look at them, defo worth consideration, if it does the job I’m not fussed about the logo that’s’ stitched on. 😊


Just get a cheapo thin fleece. Definitely not worth spending much on mid layers!

Quote
Yeah, I’m thinking collapsible bowl for water or one of those doggie water bottles with the built in bowl. He can eat his kibble from my hand! Lol  The Kestrel was one of the packs I had looked at before deciding to get advice.


I just cut the bottom 2" out of a 2 litre plastic milk bottle. Dead light, free and crumples down fairly flat.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: richardh1905 on 09:20:07, 18/09/19
Just been looking at the Kestrel online - fancy one myself - something else for the ever growing wish list!  :D


Those little pockets on the hip belt look really useful; a nice touch.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: ninthace on 10:41:08, 18/09/19
Anyone suggesting you need a 35-45 litre pack for day walks is a nutter
Actually I prefer to think of myself as mildly eccentric.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: sussamb on 10:49:29, 18/09/19
Those little pockets on the hip belt look really useful; a nice touch.


They are, my Lowe Alpine packs have them too, quite small and only on one side of my older 35L but the newer 35:45L has large ones on both sides.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Man wae a dug on 11:13:01, 18/09/19
@ Islandplodder -  I'm in Scotland so even though I might not use it I reckon the summer kit and winter kit that I'll carry are going to be remarkably similar! lol

I haven't got all my kit gathered together as yet, just my waterproof layer, trousers and boots so far; I've got wicking sports tops and a couple of long sleeve base layers (one poly, one merino) that I can use for now until I work out which I prefer. Yep, I'd happily trade in a bit of weight for comfort but I'm restricted to an internet purchase on this one, I daresay I could send it back if it wasn't suitable. 
I reckon if I got one with a sturdier back and good padded straps I should be ok though. I'll bear in mind to make sure the straps are adjustable though. Thanks.


@richard1905 - If I could get away with strapping a tent to the outside for short one night camps to begin with I'd be happy enough doing so, but reading here I'm thinking 38L might be a tad big just for walks (don't mind my pack not being full, but reckon if it was half empty it would be an annoyance).
The mid layer is going to entail a bit of thinking on my part, I'll need it as a top layer for really cold dry days (I'll happily work outdoors in winter in a t-shirt but need to wrap up when I stop) but wearing it under my shell layer while doing anything strenuous will boil me alive! I reckon it'll spend more time in the pack than on my back so I'm not sure if I'll go fleece or down here......that's another thread that one. lol
Good idea on the dog bowl.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: WhitstableDave on 11:43:35, 18/09/19
Hi again Man wae a dug.

Just a thought about the mid layer...

One of my favourite bits of gear is a Berghaus Ghlas softshell jacket. Okay, I know it's not what most might call a mid layer, so I'll explain.

It's really a combination, with tough, windproof and water resistant front, back and outside sleeving, but thinner, stretchy, breathable sides and inside sleeving. The side pockets are long and have a mesh lining so they work very well as vents. (And it doesn't have an unnecessary hood.)

I tend to wear a very thin base layer and, when needed, a Paclite top. This is the combination I use more often than any other because it copes well over a wide weather range.

Here's the description from Cotswold Outdoor:
Quote
The versatile jack-of-all trades is what softshell is all about: a tough combination of water repellency, windproofing, warmth and freedom of movement.

While some may be quite activity-specific, the midweight Ghlas Softshell Jacket really stays true to the softshell concept, making a great multi-activity all-rounder.

Durable, windproof fabric makes up the majority of the jacket, with stretch panels under the arms and down the sides allowing you move easily, whether you're reaching for the next hold or reaching out to cross a stile. A durable water repellent finish keeps off all but the worst of the rain.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: gunwharfman on 11:58:42, 18/09/19
If I go out for the day I just use my small cycling rucksack. I have looked at other rucksacks but to date have never purchased anything. What strikes me though is when I watch people buying small rucksacks I rarely see anyone buying one where they ensure that the belt fits around their hips. People tend to try the rucksack on, pull the straps tight on the shoulder and do not seem to notice that the waist strap is then either redundant or if they attempt to secure it, the buckle can snap into place, sometimes as high as the lower part of their sturnum.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: ninthace on 12:14:08, 18/09/19
I wouldn't worry too much about the pack flapping about.  The Osprey has compression straps to keep it tight.  Typically with two of us I will start with the top of the pack quite empty as we set off wearing more layers.  When we warm up, the outer and mid layers go in the pack.  I have never had an issue with a flapping pack.  The bottom of the pack has the usual stuff that lives in there all the time as it is needed for every trip.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: alan de enfield on 12:14:20, 18/09/19
I have a 25 litre pack and can get 'two-nights' stuff into it (Summer time with minimal clothes)

Weight just under 10kgs (inc Rucksack)

Rucksack Rain Cover
Cloud-Up2 (Frome) 2-Man Tent (C/W Footprint)
Hikenture Inflatable Mattress (Inc Bag)
Vango sleeping bag (28cm x 22cm) Inc bag
Titanium Frying Pan, Cooking Pot  & Contents
Gas stove
Gas cartridge
300ml Insulated Mug & Lid
2-Day Ration Bag (4 meals per day) (~ 2000Kcal per day)
2x Pack Dextro Energy Tablets
8x 'Brew Bags (Tea, Milk Powder, Sweeteners) Inside Mug
Poncho
Change of Pants & Socks
Wash Kit
1st Aid Kit
Roll Zinc Oxide Tape (10mts x 2.5cm)
Folding Trowel (Inc Toilet Paper)
30,000 Ma Solar Power Bank
Headlight
Torch
USB Light
"Bits & Bobs" (2x Zip Pullers, 2x Spring Grips, 2mts Para Cord)
Charger Leads
500ml Bottle Water (x 2)
Water Filter Pump-Kit & Contents
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: sussamb on 12:37:28, 18/09/19
I wouldn't worry too much about the pack flapping about.  The Osprey has compression straps to keep it tight.  Typically with two of us I will start with the top of the pack quite empty as we set off wearing more layers.  When we warm up, the outer and mid layers go in the pack.  I have never had an issue with a flapping pack.  The bottom of the pack has the usual stuff that lives in there all the time as it is needed for every trip.


Agreed  O0
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: richardh1905 on 12:53:48, 18/09/19

Agreed  O0


+1


The compression straps will take up any slack, Man wae a dug.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Man wae a dug on 20:19:02, 18/09/19
Well, I'm more confused now than when I started! lol 

Nah, only joking, the advice has given me a lot to mull over today and after weighing up the options think I'll go for a daysack strictly for walking for now and then I'll get one for all my camping needs (whether it be one night camp or the planned seven nights WHW). Otherwise I reckon I could possibly get caught betwixt and between.
I've taken advice on board and narrowed it down to a couple of the Osprey ones (Talon 33 and Stratos 34) and Lowe air zone trail 35. They should be more than capable of comfortably carrying maps, glasses, phone, my waterproofs, food and drink for both as well as a wee towel for my doggie.

I'm in town tomorrow and will try to nip into Blacks early doors and check if they have a 'nae dugs!' policy when confronted with a gullible bloke they can fleece for a few quid. Hopefully they don't and they'll have the ones I'm interested in. :)

Again, thanks for all your input, it was appreciated..........now about this mid layer malarkey.... ;)
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: Man wae a dug on 19:05:46, 19/09/19
Popped into Blacks and tried out the Osprey Talon 33 L.  Very, very comfortable and I was sorely tempted to buy it.  I also tried on the Lowe Air Zone Pro 35:45 as well and it was also very comfortable (probably a 9.5/10 as opposed to Ospreys 10/10 comfy rating).

After having a good rummage around both and chatting with the (very helpful) assistant I reckoned I probably could cram enough kit into the Lowe (when expanded) for an overnight camp and cinched down it was more or less the same size as the Osprey anyway.
Ok, I might need to strap something to the outside, but for a short trip I'm fine with that. The trampoline mesh thingy helped sway me too (I know I'll sweat regardless but I'll take any assistance I can get to lessen this) and the webbing on the front will come in very handy too.
Very happy with the bag and all your advice.

The added bonus is that the pack is black with orange so it matches my boots and hiking (dog walking) trousers and the built in rain cover matches my jacket. lol Result! :)




But by god that Osprey pack was unbelievably comfy.
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: sussamb on 21:58:57, 19/09/19
You won't regret it, I love my LA 35:45L  O0
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: BuzyG on 21:04:03, 25/09/19
Another here who has a LA 35_45.  God choice.

Especially if it's colour coordinated with your other kit.  ;) LoL. 
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: sussamb on 22:13:51, 25/09/19
Mine's black  ;)
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: BuzyG on 22:35:10, 26/09/19
turquoise for me, matches.......Errr...... nothing else I have.  ;D
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: happyhiker on 23:28:00, 26/09/19
There is not much difference in the weight of rucksacks of whatever size (within reason). It's what you put in them!
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: BuzyG on 16:33:07, 27/09/19
There is not much difference in the weight of rucksacks of whatever size (within reason). It's what you put in them!
Horses for courses.  I borrowed my wife's day sack for both training and the event, when I took part in the Dartmoor Highground marathon.  It's is a 10ltr sack which was all I needed for a cool summers day.  With water provided every 5-8 miles. It is both lighter and sits higher on my back than my day sack meaning I could travel more quickly and comfortably accross the ground.

I have also taken my old 65ltr sack out on day walks a few times in the winter.  As I carry everything and the kitchen sink when out on Dartmoor on my own in winter.   Means I can actually stop and enjoy the view from Fur tor for a few hours in freezing conditions, without freezing.  O0
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: kinkyboots on 17:15:25, 27/09/19
This should be worth a read for anyone still looking for something a bit smaller around 20 Litres.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/gear/rucksacks/small/day_packs_around_20_litres-11865 (https://www.ukhillwalking.com/gear/rucksacks/small/day_packs_around_20_litres-11865)
Title: Re: Daypack advice required
Post by: BuzyG on 22:42:17, 27/09/19
That was a good read.  :)