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Title: Cattle again...
Post by: Murphy on 13:09:29, 11/06/19
I said to myself that I wouldn’t post on this topic any more after some uncalled for comments last time on this topic but I guess it’s raised it’s head again as another young mum is airlifted at Capel Curig yesterday having been attacked while walking with her child. Suppose it acts as a reminder for us all to take care around cattle particularly as many have young at this time of year ....
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:59:58, 11/06/19
I did note, yet again, that dogs were involved. I am always very wary of cattle, I've had too many 'incidents' and I never ignore them!
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: strawy on 17:14:27, 11/06/19
Everyone should take extra care around cattle,yes,they look like they dont give a damn,but one of them might just take a fancy to you.  
I dont walk with a dog but most incidents ive read about involve a dog walker.
Whenever i,m faced with a field of cattle i sum up the situation,can i detour ? walk round the edge ? can i leap over that fence if they approach me ?
I once passed a herd,they were not interested in me so i walked on,then i felt the earth rumble,looked behind & they were doing what i can only call as,the cattle aerobics,shat myself & i froze on the spot.
Lesson was learnt & ive never taken them for granted since.
I,ll talk to em from behind a fence,but avoidance is the best bet.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: BuzyG on 20:15:54, 11/06/19
Never had had any problems with cattle on the moor.  Certainly not worried in any way by them.   On farm land it's a different story.  I have a theory that they get prodded and pushed around more on farm land, than on the moors.  Guess that makes some of them a bit more prone to be cranky, well you would.  Basic size also dictates that they are both bigger than me and quicker.  So always treat with respect.  One or two occasions when a herd has started to follow/ usher me off their patch, I have turned to face them and raised my arms.  They have always backed off.   O0
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Owen on 20:32:12, 11/06/19
One or two occasions when a herd has started to follow/ usher me off their patch, I have turned to face them and raised my arms.  They have always backed off.   O0


helps to talk to them as well, in a calm even tone.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Dovegirl on 20:43:31, 11/06/19
I'm very wary of cattle, especially after being charged, which happened just off the South Downs Way.  I usually find that cattle show no interest or, if they do follow me, are just curious or perhaps think I've got food for them.  But it's their unpredictability that's the trouble.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: BuzyG on 21:28:44, 11/06/19

helps to talk to them as well, in a calm even tone.
Oh yes, I agree.  To be honest I talk to all the animals I see out walking.  Well maybe not the Adders.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: strawy on 21:43:31, 11/06/19
Oh yes, I agree.  To be honest I talk to all the animals I see out walking.  Well maybe not the Adders.
Its "Dolittles Syndrome" I suffer from the same,bet you ask sheep "what you looking at"  ;D
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: pleb on 10:16:54, 12/06/19
Its "Dolittles Syndrome" I suffer from the same,bet you ask sheep "what you looking at"  ;D
Shouldn't that be "What ewe  looking at?"
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: strawy on 11:24:46, 12/06/19
Shouldn't that be "What ewe  looking at?"
Correct...Thank Ewe  O0
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: fit old bird on 12:08:41, 12/06/19
   So always treat with respect.  One or two occasions when a herd has started to follow/ usher me off their patch, I have turned to face them and raised my arms.  They have always backed off.   O0


Same here, turn to face them, talk to them, and they stop dead in their tracks, usually. They do for me anyway.


By the way, the Daily Fail says it was a grandma of 49 with her young granddaughter of 8, and she is an experienced walker. Also said she had lost one of her dogs. She would be flattered to be called a young mum.


ilona
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 12:27:50, 12/06/19
Until you have had a previous unsettling encounter with either Cows or Horses, i always give them a wide birth, as they can be so unpredictable.


I even go out of my way, to find another route to avoid coming into contact with them, simply because i know i could not out run them in a dangerous situation.


I also know that in the past, if i had stopped in my tracks and faced them head on, i would not be here today.

Many years ago, i had to cross a field full of young bullocks, and they were in such a frisky excited mood, that if i had been foolish enough to stand my ground, they would have trampled all over me.
 
To this day, i still do not know what made them gallop at speed towards me, and as i entered the field, they were a considerable distance away, but i aroused their curiosity, and they went ballistic.

Cows with young calfs, young Bullocks, and Horses all need due respect, and if one just enters a field or area of land with crazing cattle, do not startle them, or make any unnecessary noise.



Usually they just acknowledge your presence, and go on eating or minding their own business.


If you alarm them, or allow your pet dog to bark annoyingly at them, then there is a possibility of distressing them, with the inevitable consequences.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: ninthace on 12:38:42, 12/06/19
Never had had any problems with cattle on the moor.  Certainly not worried in any way by them.   On farm land it's a different story.  I have a theory that they get prodded and pushed around more on farm land, than on the moors.  Guess that makes some of them a bit more prone to be cranky, well you would.  Basic size also dictates that they are both bigger than me and quicker.  So always treat with respect.  One or two occasions when a herd has started to follow/ usher me off their patch, I have turned to face them and raised my arms.  They have always backed off.   O0
  Likewise, if I have trouble I turn and face them down.  Some of them (youngsters mostly) like to get very close so a degree of firmness is required.  The problem comes when they keep trying to get behind you - then you need eyes everywhere.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: richardh1905 on 13:04:32, 12/06/19
No way would I go into a field of cows with my dog - just asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: tyreon on 10:20:32, 16/06/19

Anyone remember the old(e) Hollywood films of the Wild West wherein cattle stampedes could occur? From (dysfunctional?)memory these stampedes could be caused by the slightest of things...rather like horses can get rattled and start off by a glimpse of something out of the corner of their eye. The cattle seemed easily spooked. Interpreting domestic cattle as more docile than aggressive,I wonder if any more threatening cattle might turn tail and run t'other way if any walker turned about,raised both arms,shouted,then marched towards them with a very loud car air horn as a means of defence.


I haven't tried this.


Any one else?


I don't think I have the legs to  out-run cattle theseadays. I was always wary/frit of them in my younger years. Nowadays people offer me seats on buses when the bus is full,so I am always on the lookout for any ways I can cross fields safely.Some fields are still as large that you cannot see across them as in they have a brow. Half way across a field,and at the top,you then discover the next half of the field contains cattle...and they have seen you!! And then they begin to get interested in you!


Any practical or humorous replies greatly appreciated excepting Bear Grylls.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Owen on 10:43:42, 16/06/19
Do not use an air horn.


Do not make sudden movement or load noises.


Do not approach from behind.


Talk in a calm confident tone to them so they know you're there.


Walk slowly through them but don't go to close to any of them if you can avoid it.


If they do start to get to interested in you make yourself look bigger, wave your arms and raise your voice a bit.



Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Murphy on 16:44:05, 16/06/19
I didn't want to raise this topic again, as I have spoken about my encounters with cattle a few times on this Forum.  Some of the responses then were  slightly.somewhat be-belittling I have to say hence my withdrawal for commenting.  But I guess that's part of the fun for some.   BUT it is such an issue I cannot resist.  Waving arms about, making yourself look bigger 9 times out of 10 may be okay, walking through them with confidence may be okay - but believe me as someone who has had experience of being thrown around like a rag doll, and  seriously injured, then never, and I mean never, take them for granted...dog or no dog. 



Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Owen on 16:59:12, 16/06/19
I didn't want to raise this topic again, as I have spoken about my encounters with cattle a few times on this Forum.  Some of the responses then were  slightly.somewhat be-belittling I have to say hence my withdrawal for commenting.  But I guess that's part of the fun for some.   BUT it is such an issue I cannot resist.  Waving arms about, making yourself look bigger 9 times out of 10 may be okay, walking through them with confidence may be okay - but believe me as someone who has had experience of being thrown around like a rag doll, and  seriously injured, then never, and I mean never, take them for granted...dog or no dog.


Not trying to be-little anyone, just saying what's always worked for me.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Slogger on 17:04:32, 16/06/19
I think you ve got to be really unlucky to have problems with cattle, unless for some reason you spook them by your own actions. I know there will always be exceptions. I personaly have never had any problem, sure Ive had them running after me , alongside me and blocking the path, gate, or stile and looking nervous when with their young, but up to now 62 years without issue.In fact the only animals I have had issues with are pigs with young that charged us, but that was our fault for being in the wrong field and two lively horses that ran down the field to us and began nudging us almost into the drainage ditch. We were beginning to panic when they lost interest and walked away. The only other time was whilst walking the Cumbria Way at the Back O Skiddaw, when I was repeatedly divebombed by a Hen Harrier as I was obviously near its nest.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: tyreon on 17:10:23, 16/06/19

I would echo Murphy. I have been corralled by cattle and had to escape to ditches...then thru hedges: tho still above ground,not beneath it.


I note some farmers still discourage walkers as in a case in Leicestershire wherein someone was killed by cattle. A witness said the farmer had told him he didn't like walkers and put into the field a particular breed of cattle that were hostile to walkers to dissuade them from crossing his fields. It seemed to have worked for one walker was killed by the cattle and the other injured(or ran for safety)
When it came to court the farmer had brought the best defence counsel alongside belonging to one of the best trade unions(the NFU). With the judicial system as it is in GB I think he walked free from court :) :(


Myself and my wife had wanted to walk Glyndwrs Way in Wales but on consulting with various tourist offices about Wales ended up too frightened to attempt it.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Slogger on 17:15:59, 16/06/19
There are strict rules re: the type of breed and mixture of cattle that farmers are allowed to put in a field with a right of way through it.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: tyreon on 17:40:01, 16/06/19

You are correct Slogger. But with much confidence any farmer who doesn't like walkers can easily evade any prosecution courtesy of the NFU,a good defence counsel and the British judicial system.


When my wife had just passed her driving test many moons ago we would drive and she would comment upon how juggernauts were breaking the law by overtaking on brows of hills etc whilst we were heading towards them. We had the right of way. This was so,but unless we braked or gave way to them we would have been in coffins. Right,but dead.


You don't mess with farmers.


Only hare coursers can do so without consequences! :(
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: BuzyG on 19:57:11, 16/06/19
Observation from todays walk on Dartmoor.


Towards the end of our walk we crossed a stream with a herd of cattle blocking the path on the far side. One of our small group was clearly nervous of cattle, infact they asked if there was a easy route around, before we crossed the stream.  Happily our nervous colleague was trusting enough to follow accross the stream and follow with the group, as I led.  Being typical moorland cattle they took very little notice of us, even though we had to split the herd to maintain our route. We walked within 20 ft of several that did not even bother to get up on there feet, dispite the fact we had a small dog with the group, which was very well behaved.


So yes, I agree.  Any creatures that are bigger and faster than you, can cause serious harm.  However the cattle on Dartmoor realy are not bothered by walkers.  Farm cattle though are another matter.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 21:54:26, 16/06/19
But with much confidence any farmer who doesn't like walkers can easily evade any prosecution courtesy of the NFU,a good defence counsel and the British judicial system.

I am not sure 'Farmers' easily evades prosecution, nor am I sure that the finger of accusation points that accurately at the 'Perp'. The simple answer to this problem is 'legal detour'. But who is responsible for this not being the solution, if there was a 'safety issue' then the both the potential victim and the responsible stakeholder of the issue should have the means to defend themselves.
The owner of the property has ultimate responsibility in law, yet it is the 'landowner', who does not own up to blocking 'sensible precaution'.
Walkers and other countryside users fall into a trap, when we confuse the identity of the 'farmer' and the 'landowner'. The root of most of the problem in our understanding of 'Freehold', it does not require the owner of property to be responsible for their occupation of space within our countryside, yet the law is, I believe, filling in a few of the gaps, the judiciary and the public need to be more attentive and point the finger in the right direction.

Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: pasbury on 23:20:39, 16/06/19
I had an encounter on Friday with a herd of bullocks in a field traversed by a public footpath near Tintern. It was immediately clear to me that I could not go through that field without risking some bovine aggro. I don’t need that kind of hassle on a walk. My cousin, a seasoned countryman, was nearly killed two years ago by a similar herd.
I tried following the field boundary to where I could pick up another footpath but the bullocks followed me, some making charges the whole way.  Got to the corner where I had to cross a fence to reach a gate into a cattle free field and the other footpath but the whole herd gathered by the fence and in spite of my efforts to bore them by having a cup of tea, they made it pretty clear that I wasn’t going in their field.
This herd of boishy teenage bullocks should not be in a field with a public footpath. I normally walk with my children, makes it doubly wrong.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: sussamb on 07:17:03, 17/06/19
Young cows are like young children, inquisitive.  They are also like young children easily frightened.  I've had herds of them follow me across fields etc, once I feel they're too close I just turn and face them and they quickly back off.  Grown ups are the ones to watch, and as already been said it's a question of watching their demeanor.  Some will simply carry on doing what they're doing, others can appear more aggressive and in those situations I will divert around them, but that's not something I need to do very often  O0
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 08:53:22, 17/06/19
I tried following the field boundary to where I could pick up another footpath
Pasbury attempted to take the sensible alternative to avoid an unsafe situation, that is half the correct procedure but does the law allow the other side an equal response? 

Is the answer to make the legislation on the type of livestock more complicated? That legislation is 30 or 40 years out of date because of the influx of other breeds to this country since entry into the common market.
The ordnance survey maps are littered with precedence of the obvious alternative, and that is 'legal detour'. Or as the Scottish Land Reform Act terms it 'A right of Responsible Access'. The precedence I have noticed are detours where the way, either highway or other are liable to become flooded and so impassable, an alternative route is found along field margins, many of these have been incorporated as rights of way in the definitive map, often described as anomalies by those without knowledge of field drainage to see them for what they really are.

It would then make a duty of care fall on the landowner to ensure that an alternative route being possible, where there may be a perceived risk. A duty of care that all other professions have as a legal obligation.

There is some previous criticism of the part the NFU plays in this, it is the CLA that lobbies property issues. It is quite proper that the NFU should defend farmers, where the landowner continues to hang onto outdated privileges.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: pasbury on 09:12:14, 17/06/19
In the end I had to retrace my steps and cut my walk short. I was ready to justify my deviation from the public right of way if challenged by the landowner.
The demeanor of individuals is interesting. There were at least two of them who were much more inquisitive/aggressive than the rest - who just stood around watching. I'm sure I could have scared them off for a time (as I've done many times before) but didn't feel comfortable risking it.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: ninthace on 14:37:33, 17/06/19
Walking in Austria this week and there scores of notices up about behaviour round cows. They are up in hotels, on information boards and on gates across footpaths.  I wonder if they have been having a problem and if so, with what? Cows or tourists?
We crossed a very confined field today with cows and calves in it and the obligatory notice on the gate.  A couple of cows looked us over and one broke wind in our general direction but I did not reply in kind.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Murphy on 14:48:52, 17/06/19
Owen


I wasn’t referring to you when I mentioned belittling. It was from previous posts on the topic.  Apologies if you misunderstood. I merely trying to say that it doesn’t matter how many years experience you have you just never know.



Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Innominate Man on 14:53:35, 17/06/19
Walking in Austria this week and there scores of notices up about behaviour round cows. They are up in hotels, on information boards and on gates across footpaths.  I wonder if they have been having a problem and if so, with what? Cows or tourists?
We crossed a very confined field today with cows and calves in it and the obligatory notice on the gate.  A couple of cows looked us over and one broke wind in our general direction but I did not reply in kind.


A French Taunter cow on tour in Austria   ;D
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: ninthace on 15:06:38, 17/06/19

A French Taunter cow on tour in Austria   ;D
Not hint of elderberries either!
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: gunwharfman on 15:11:42, 17/06/19
I've had issues with cows, including being biffed in the chest by one and lifted off my feet!

However, I do remember that when I walked the Stevenson Way (GR70) in France, except for one 200m section en route, all cows were fenced off from the footpaths for the whole route, about 120km I think. Cow areas just had 1-metre long metal poles between the hiker and the animal, just bashed in the ground with a hammer and one strand of wire connecting them.

On that walk, I had no problems at all.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: BuzyG on 21:17:26, 17/06/19
Walking in Austria this week and there scores of notices up about behaviour round cows. They are up in hotels, on information boards and on gates across footpaths.  I wonder if they have been having a problem and if so, with what? Cows or tourists?
We crossed a very confined field today with cows and calves in it and the obligatory notice on the gate.  A couple of cows looked us over and one broke wind in our general direction but I did not reply in kind.


 ;D O0
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: April on 06:26:52, 18/06/19
Waving arms about, making yourself look bigger 9 times out of 10 may be okay, walking through them with confidence may be okay - but believe me as someone who has had experience of being thrown around like a rag doll, and  seriously injured, then never, and I mean never, take them for granted...dog or no dog.

I totally agree with you Murphy. If we had taken the standard advice during our last encounter with charging cattle we wouldn't be here to tell the tale. If we had stood still making our selves look big with arms aloft we would have been flattened by them like a pair of skittles. They couldn't stop when they reached the stile we had just managed to get over, they skidded on the steep slope of mud and ended up 6 feet past it. Squeaky wasn't with us so no dog to blame.

The people who have had no serious problems with cattle are very lucky and are wrong to imply that the people who do have problems is because it is how they have behaved and their own fault or it is their incorrect perception of how the cattle are behaving. I know the difference between an inquisitive and playful bullock and a charging aggressive bullock. In forty plus years of walking most of the encounters with cattle have been absolutely no problem but there have been a few instances when I have been lucky not to have been injured or killed. As Murphy says never take them for granted.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 10:08:54, 18/06/19
I said to myself that I wouldn’t post on this topic.................... Suppose it acts as a reminder for us all to take care around cattle particularly as many have young at this time of year ....
I suppose those of us, who posted on this forum for a long time see topics come and go and come back and back. But there are new members joining all the time so if I repeat myself will those, who have been around abit, not yawn.


If walkers took the time to learn a bit about cattle, then they might help the cause by added fact rather than innuendo to the cause, there has been a suspicion, within agricultural circles that the Limousin breed throws up aggressive females. A farmer in mid-Wales, near Lambister, told me that it was worse in cross breds, now if this is true I have no way to corroborate it. But it was first brought to my attention at a major county agricultural show, when I was Cheif Steward organising the Horse and Cattle parades, in the bar after the cattle stewards were pulling my leg and subject of Limousin cows came up. Many agreed on this aggressive streak, but they would only admit to it if they were thinking that they were talking in private and off the record.

I read somewhere that a suspected aggressive streak had been bred out of the Limousin. An admission? Certainly somewhere else the industry had gone to the trouble to publish a vets finding that there is no basis in fact that there is no provable breed aggression in beef animals.

Anyone with knowledge of animal husbandry will know of recessive genes, the Lambister farmer told myself and Mrs BWW of the incident, when this aggressive cow single him out and cornered him in a remote barn and had he not known of an escape route (from childhood days playing there) the cow would have killed him.

I have taken the trouble to look at Limousin photos, not a breed that was covered in my student days, but I try to keep up to date recognizing the many continental breeds that have proliferated over the last 20 -30 years, just keep safe. I have been fortunate both as a farmer and as a walker. Mrs BWW and I like to handle animals if they are inquisitive and come to hand, the nearest to injury I have come to has been when giving aid to a distressed or trapped animal.

But if I were to report an aggressive animal I would hope that I could give both information on sex and breed.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: sussamb on 10:38:26, 18/06/19
As Murphy says never take them for granted.

Definitely good advice :)
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Slogger on 16:32:32, 18/06/19
Definitely good advice :)
You are right Sussamb, that is good advice, never take them for granted, they are animals and can be unpredictable.If anyone has had a bad experience then of course they are going to be apprehensive next time.During my recent Offa's Dyke Path walk, going through the section in the Severn Valley before Llanymynech, you go through many fields with cattle in them, some young bullocks, some cows, and some mixed.I had just come through one with medium aged bulls into an empty field. A guy was sat down making himself a brew and seemed in a state of shock. Chatting to him he told me had, had an encounter with the bulls that blocked his way out of his previous field. I told him that they were blocking the path on top of the Dyke in the field that I had just I come through, but they parted without problem. I told him to be confident and hold his line and it would be ok. He seemed grateful for the advice, but I felt for him, he was going the other way and would have to negotiate his way past all that cattle that I had already come across.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: mananddog on 08:59:18, 19/06/19

I read somewhere that a suspected aggressive streak had been bred out of the Limousin. An admission? Certainly somewhere else the industry had gone to the trouble to publish a vets finding that there is no basis in fact that there is no provable breed aggression in beef animals.

I have taken the trouble to look at Limousin photos, not a breed that was covered in my student days, but I try to keep up to date recognizing the many continental breeds that have proliferated over the last 20 -30 years, just keep safe. I have been fortunate both as a farmer and as a walker.



My experience is certainly to avoid Limousin if possible. I have had a few run ins with them but one comes to mind in particular, I was walking in Northumberland and a bunch of limmies in the next field started to run and "chase" then they came to the fence.... About 5 jumped the fence (breaking the wire and a fence post) and landed in the field where I was. Fortunately they were so surprised at what they had done and realised that the rest of the herd were not with them that they stopped running and just stood looking at their mates.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 10:09:41, 19/06/19
Glad I am not the only one then to suspicious of the Lim.  ;)
Mrs BWW and I were walking through a field close to the Berwyn area and I had noticed a Lim bull with the cows some way off. We were attempting to keep to the righteous way as close as possible as I was interested to see if the footpaths in this part of Powys were waymarked. We had a lady friend with us, who would have immediately got into a panic if I had drawn attention to this, just because it was bull. We got by without any trouble and as we were about to leave the field Mrs BWW thought the bull was looking right at her.

 It did appear so but he seemed quite placid, my lesson from this encounter:

Check with a friend to see if my recognition of breed type is correct. I suspect it was pure bred or pedigree. I would have liked to have asked the farmer, but there was no one about as we passed the farm.

Take note of the dams, farmers tend to select female stock from there calf crop, were there X bred dams.

With this herd there seemed to be no newly born calves or even sucklers at foot.

What I would be doing if I was still an active NFU member, would be  advocating posting a risk assessment of a herd in a field with a single suckler herd or multiple suckler, so that the members of the public entering the field could see that the herdsman was on top of his job. But what do I know I left farming 40 years ago, with a redundancy payout and had to take H&S seriously in the business I developed subsequently.  8) .
Trouble with this course of action, it would admit that there can be aggressive streaks in some cattle  ???
 
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: mananddog on 11:09:07, 19/06/19
I have encountered a lot of limmy  bulls and they seem placid enough. It is the cows I do not trust.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 11:14:04, 19/06/19
Too true  O0
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Slogger on 17:41:04, 19/06/19
Ah, Limousin, that's what they were. Walking the Offas, a herd of youngish muscular bulls, very lively chasing after me, stopped every time i did, they wanted a closer look, very jumpy creatures, and could they run at speed. I was playing with them, they were very easilly spooked, I stopped, they stopped, I ran they ran, I shouted at them they backed away flustered not knowing what to do. I was perfectly safe though.They were on the other side of a substantial headgerow as I walked down the track next to the field! :)
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: gunwharfman on 17:44:32, 19/06/19
Last year, it was a blistering hot day, I walked from the campsite at Llanvelherine and turned left into some fields on Offas Dyke path. I walked through a field with cows in it but they were far from me. I walked up to a 3' wide gate, then a short 8' length walkway of wooden boards, then another 3' wide gate again at the end of the boards. These gates connected one field with another.

The boards looked so inviting, no one around, so I decided to lay down and have a sleep. A while later I woke up to find that both entrance/exits had about 20 cows just standing at each end, just looking at me! I never heard a thing, they just sneaked up on me, I had a small shock when I opened my eyes!

I was in no hurry to get going so I took my time to get organized, hoping they would just wander off with boredom. They didn't move, so I put my rucksack on and attempted to open the gate but the blighters wouldn't budge! In the end, I had to tap a couple of their rumps with my hiking stick to make them move away! They did, all of 4', but it was enough for me to open the gate, I then full of anxiety stepped in amongst them. It was fine they didn't bother me at all, just too hot a day I think. What they did do however was to make me walk through a sea of cows muck to get to the other side of the field.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: BuzyG on 21:55:39, 19/06/19
Last year, it was a blistering hot day, I walked from the campsite at Llanvelherine and turned left into some fields on Offas Dyke path. I walked through a field with cows in it but they were far from me. I walked up to a 3' wide gate, then a short 8' length walkway of wooden boards, then another 3' wide gate again at the end of the boards. These gates connected one field with another.

The boards looked so inviting, no one around, so I decided to lay down and have a sleep. A while later I woke up to find that both entrance/exits had about 20 cows just standing at each end, just looking at me! I never heard a thing, they just sneaked up on me, I had a small shock when I opened my eyes!

I was in no hurry to get going so I took my time to get organized, hoping they would just wander off with boredom. They didn't move, so I put my rucksack on and attempted to open the gate but the blighters wouldn't budge! In the end, I had to tap a couple of their rumps with my hiking stick to make them move away! They did, all of 4', but it was enough for me to open the gate, I then full of anxiety stepped in amongst them. It was fine they didn't bother me at all, just too hot a day I think. What they did do however was to make me walk through a sea of cows muck to get to the other side of the field.


That had me chuckling.  O0
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: ninthace on 23:22:45, 19/06/19
May have told this before.  Dropping down from Cow Green (no pun intended) I had to pass through a gate that was completely blocked with cows and calves. No option but to push my way through them and no chance to play tippy toe round the most yucky bits.  I got most of the way through them, looking out for tails moving up and sideways ready to take evasive action, when I came across a cow with a funny looking udder and one big teat.  Fortunately, he and they were cooperative.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 08:26:59, 21/06/19
Photo taken 2007. The owner at least willing to share the temperament of his bull with passers by. But no sign of the the jolly fellow and judging by the vegetation not for some time, but I thought it was a step up from the age worn painted sign of Beware of the Bull as part of a collapsing gate into a field of potatoes.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48099281217_d4d0ec6ecd_z.jpg) (http://)DSCN4848 (https://flic.kr/p/2ghnoy2) by Barewirewalker (https://www.flickr.com/photos/barewirewalker/), on Flickr
Might be a Shorthorn, now that was an on old English dual purpose breed. Beef or Dairy take your pick  :D
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Jac on 10:25:58, 21/06/19
Might be a Shorthorn, now that was an on old English dual purpose breed. Beef or Dairy take your pick  :D



You mean like this one?
(https://i.ibb.co/F6f49hZ/Walk-from-Bramford-Speke-with-Ann-shorthorn-bull-amp-cows-20.jpg)





or these youngsters by the Wessex Ridgeway
(https://i.ibb.co/KDwpTGR/P1030829.jpg)
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 10:57:05, 21/06/19
Very similar markings, but I am not sure that the Wessex Ridgeway has traveled as far as the Montgomeryshire Shropshire border.

Very interesting suggestion, I am only basing my identification on a 50 year old memory of the cattle my grandfather used to breed. O0
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Jac on 18:07:11, 23/06/19

I'm pretty sure they are Beef Shorthorns (not Dairy shorthorns). The bull was at Brampford Speke in the Exe Valley.


I remember dairy shorthorns in the Reading area back in my childhood
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 09:50:10, 24/06/19
I'm pretty sure they are Beef Shorthorns (not Dairy shorthorns). The bull was at Brampford Speke in the Exe Valley.


I remember dairy shorthorns in the Reading area back in my childhood
You rightly point out that there are both Dairy and Beef in Shorthorns, which I forgot and I think this was because my reasoning was triggered by the original purpose of this topic. You raise an interesting point, I was thinking of the historical purpose of a purpose breed, which modern farming has almost eradicated. This is a breed where the dam's natural progresses from the dairy to become a 'milch cow' in a multi suckler herd, I personally would feel less threatened to walk into the herd space of a multi suckler herd than single sucklers. Now I have been out of farming for a very long time, but it does raise another question about the incidence of 'bull with herd', whilst calves at foot. This I think is the time of maximum potential aggression. A multi suckler herd will try to maximize the lactation period, the objective of the single suckler herd is to restrict lactation to an annual cycle.

This links into the other topic of mine you responded to. Are country people as responsive to visitors as visitors are respectful of the farming practice? On that walk we were entertained by a full frontal charge by pure bred Hereford yearlings however they came to stop at 10 paces, posed for a couple of photos, then went into full flight mode as we moved towards them.

It turned out that we were talking to the farmer's sister later that day, she went to great lengths to steer us away from her brothers land. What is the underlying psychology and what drives it, the more I think about this, the more I realize that there could be better understanding coming out of the rural community.


As an after thought, the charging bullocks, when they came to a halt to gives us the stare;

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48119908053_217698001e_z.jpg) (http://)hereford bullocks (https://flic.kr/p/2gjc7c8) by Barewirewalker (https://www.flickr.com/photos/barewirewalker/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: GnP on 19:59:57, 20/09/19
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-49775279
Another death by cow...
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: April on 20:43:04, 20/09/19
Ah, that is awful news  :(

The cows involved were Belted Galloways, a breed of cattle that are normally gentle and no problem (in our experience), it just shows, you just don't know how cattle will behave. It doesn't depend on the breed then does it?  :-\
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Agentorange on 00:50:03, 21/09/19
I must admit I'm very wary around cattle. I used to treat them with caution but would generally walk through the field if they seemed docile. But after being charged by a bull in Devon this May I have a tendency to find an alternate route if feasible now.

In all fairness I may have interrupted him at his nuptials as when I turned around after the quickest stile crossing in my life he was , ah, occupied with one of the cows....
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: pauldawes on 08:20:37, 21/09/19
Ah, that is awful news  :(

The cows involved were Belted Galloways, a breed of cattle that are normally gentle and no problem (in our experience), it just shows, you just don't know how cattle will behave. It doesn't depend on the breed then does it?  :-\


It does...to some extent. Some breeds are more likely than others to be troublesome.


But to quote a nephew who works in farming “They are large strong animals. I don’t trust any, of any breed, unless I know them really well”.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: GnP on 09:21:56, 21/09/19
Cows are very unpredictable..I keep my eyes on them when walking near to them...I try to walk uphill of them as I think they are lazy animals and I dont think they will run uphill....only a theory..if the field is flat I always have one eye on an escape route which changes as I walk along. Could be a low part of fencing or reasonable space in a hedgerow to squeeze through, or better still any gate of course...

I will go through another field if the cows are huddled round a stile I want to cross. I was in the Derbyshire Dales last year & could not find an easy way round a large group of cattle without damaging fencing in other fields. So I walked slowly toward the stile that they were all congregated round on the other side.
They moved away by coincidence but not far. They followed me all the way round that field edge and they were quite a large group too....A tad unnerving. Every time I stopped and faced them they just stood there looking at me..If they are dairy cattle I`m not so worried but if they have calves then I am.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 09:34:04, 21/09/19
Sad news indeed.

But I think an indication that distant stock management is the norm. Safety protocols are probably based on management techniques 50 yrs out of date, when most L/stock were handled more. Sadly 'the farmer' if he is an entity separate from the 'landowner' is hamstrung from coming up with alternatives. It is the aversion to offering additional access routes as part of policy that hampers an ethos of safety.

But to quote a nephew who works in farming “They are large strong animals. I don’t trust any, of any breed, unless I know them really well”.
Plenty of evidence that those, who work in the industry have reservations, but has that impinged on those, who write national policy documents.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: GnP on 09:41:03, 21/09/19
I think mechanization of farming doesn`t help...I have seen farmers moving cattle and sheep using four wheel all terrain vehicles...it all cuts down on that human contact, so they become less used to us being close up
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Slogger on 16:53:42, 22/09/19
People do die by cow or bull. It is usually a case of being trampled upon. Cows are herd creatures and if one is spooked, others nearby react too, if one runs they all run etc. If in their vicinity and they are curious which so often is the case, especially the younger ones, and one is accidently pushed causing one to fall, with the animals milling about as they do, then it is easy to understand how someone can be hurt or killed in such a situation. There is always the exception but it seems to me that most tragedies occuring with cattle happen like this, I cannot see that cattle purposely attack people unless there are exceptional circumstances behind such happenings.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Murphy on 17:02:01, 22/09/19
I vowed I would't get drawn in on this topic again but I can't resist. 


Slogger: " [size=0px]I cannot see that cattle purposely attack people unless there are exceptional circumstances behind such happenings."  
[size=0px]
 
[size=0px]Appreciate your views and experience but believe me it does happen.  I live to tell the tale x 2 - no exceptional circumstances - just cattle attacking and I too am an experienced walker.   
[size=0px]
 

Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: ninthace on 17:52:42, 22/09/19
Always tricky to judge, what some people as an attack others see as normal cow behaviour.  I have been bothered by boisterous cows on several occasions, even had them running about and chasing towards me but I have never seen it as an attack, more playfulness coupled with curiosity.
If older cows with calves give me the eye I give them a wide berth if I can or chivvy them very gently if I can't.  The nearest to a real attack was a cow in the Alps that was confined on a path and did not want to back up.  It went head down and did a bit of hoof scratching so I told it off and waited until it calmed down.  Perhaps I have been lucky.  The hardest thing is keeping Mrs N calm - she really doesn't like them.


Standfast dog walkers - that is another debate.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: GnP on 18:36:12, 22/09/19
There is a herd of these long horn not far from my home..they are the most docile you are likely to come across...(I think  ;) ) (http://www.fotothing.com/photos/cd7/cd739503959b57390a5c0b2386e0d603.jpg?ts=1569173739))
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Monsoon on 20:51:43, 22/09/19
We have those Long horns here on Bodmin Moor.99% of the time as you say pretty docile,however when they have Calves with them they turn into out and out nightmares.Been chased a few times now usually when Mother is one side of the path and the Calf is the other.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: ninthace on 21:07:32, 22/09/19
We have a lot on Exmoor too.  Mostly very docile. Once met a lone mother and calf on a path who werereluctant to get out of the way. Gentle slow chivvy worked, pushed them along with kind words until they found  a place they are happy with.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Jac on 08:19:33, 23/09/19
Sorry to be pedantic but despite having long horns I think they are Highland cattle.

Longhorn cattle are a specific breed https://www.longhorncattlesociety.com/       Much bigger beasts

(still unable to use the buttons so can't post pics)
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:42:18, 23/09/19
I agree, Jac. Looks like a Heilan' Coo to me.


PS - try Google Chrome for posting images.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: pauldawes on 08:49:42, 23/09/19
Always tricky to judge, what some people as an attack others see as normal cow behaviour.  I have been bothered by boisterous cows on several occasions, even had them running about and chasing towards me but I have never seen it as an attack, more playfulness coupled with curiosity.
If older cows with calves give me the eye I give them a wide berth if I can or chivvy them very gently if I can't.  The nearest to a real attack was a cow in the Alps that was confined on a path and did not want to back up.  It went head down and did a bit of hoof scratching so I told it off and waited until it calmed down.  Perhaps I have been lucky.  The hardest thing is keeping Mrs N calm - she really doesn't like them.


Standfast dog walkers - that is another debate.


It depends what you mean by lucky.


The sort of things you recommend....being confident, being assertive, etc...work a very high percentage of the time. So you would be unlucky if it didn’t work unless you are constantly interacting with cows.


But they don’t work all the time. 4 members of my family do a lot of work of cows..they know all the “proper” techniques. All four have had a scary experience with cows at some point...with one getting a horrendous broken arm as a result of a kick.


My way of looking at it is that I’d be unlucky if the sort of stuff you recommend didn’t work on some occasion...but the result of that bad luck is potentially so extreme, that if I can sensibly do a detour round them, I will do.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: GnP on 08:54:35, 23/09/19
Sorry to be pedantic but despite having long horns I think they are Highland cattle.

Longhorn cattle are a specific breed https://www.longhorncattlesociety.com/ (https://www.longhorncattlesociety.com/)       Much bigger beasts

(still unable to use the buttons so can't post pics)
Interesting yes..no need to be sorry  :)

 

My way of looking at it is that I’d be unlucky if the sort of stuff you recommend didn’t work on some occasion...but the result of that bad luck is potentially so extreme, that if I can sensibly do a detour round them, I will do.
I agree with that ...minimise the risk & enjoy the walk
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 09:09:06, 23/09/19
I agree, Jac. Looks like a Heilan' Coo to me.
Definitely a Highland Cow. They look impressive, but I wouldn’t want to get too close to those horns. We once came across a group of 3 or 4 of them, including a bull. They were blocking the track on our return from a walk to the ruined village of Slaggan on the west coast. I didn’t fancy trying to squeeze between them, so we took a detour across a ditch and up the slope. They watched us, but didn’t approach any closer, although 2 more were descending the hill towards us. We got past without any issue.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: richardh1905 on 09:24:47, 23/09/19
I remember Slaggan - north of Poolewe, isn't it?
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 09:31:25, 23/09/19
I remember Slaggan - north of Poolewe, isn't it?
Yes, that’s the place. It is a pretty easy walk, apart from the cows and huge numbers of buzzing insects on the way back. There were quite a few (non-Highland) cows on Slaggan beach. We saw nay a handful of other walkers at most.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: ninthace on 09:35:04, 23/09/19
I don’t usually get with kicking range if I can help it but there have been times when I have had to give them a shove to shift them!  My view is if they have room to move but are placid enough to let a stranger get close then you are probably ok.  Had an Austrian Cow that wouldn’t move no matter how hard I pushed and there was no way round. Just had to let her finish her elevenses.
I have only had one jab from a horn (up the btm too). I was taking a picture of the view and didn’t realise I was on Daisy’s lunch until she “pointed” it out.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: barewirewalker on 11:43:25, 23/09/19
If landowners were prepared to trust the overwhelming proportion of the public, who are law abiding, responsible and largely more supportive of their interests than the reverse, they might have seen that technology has provide the tools to overcome this and many other problems that they fail to deal with.
Most people carry mobile phones today, when I go to the cinema an usher scans a QR code immediately knows that I have payed and where I can sit.
A simple device that could be tacked onto the way mark posts the landowner and his supporting cast try to destroy.
 Should such a simple idea be explored by a more imaginative generation of landowners than we are blessed with today, I think safety protocols that circumvent the fears of invasion of precious private land as orchestrated by Lawyer / Landowner Sarah Slade could simply fall into place.

Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: robrymond on 21:42:46, 29/09/19
I have a German Shepherd and we have had some interesting encounters over the years. However I have learnt a lot about cattle this year and behaviour and make plans for crossing fields with them in.


I have had a good herd of 30 cattle following us (mostly young). As soon as they came in a short radius of me and the dog, the dog would bark and they would disperse.


I also had my dog accidentally chase a group as I hadn't seen them in a field. He rounded them up and started to herd them back up to me. There were some calves amongst the group which worried me. The bizzare thing was, after I managed to grab and get him back on the lead, the cows all lined up and followed us up several fields in a line, no charging or hint of being put off by the dog chasing them.


I guess it depends on the herd/breed. I always try to go uphill to avoid them again as someone said on the idea that they are lazy. But I'm much more confident at shouting at them now if they get too close whereas before I used to run and that just meant they chased.
Title: Re: Cattle again...
Post by: BuzyG on 22:47:15, 29/09/19
There is a herd of these long horn not far from my home..they are the most docile you are likely to come across...(I think  ;) ) (http://www.fotothing.com/photos/cd7/cd739503959b57390a5c0b2386e0d603.jpg?ts=1569173739))
Fluffy Coo, I do love Highland Cattle.  Yes there are plenty in Cornwall Bodmin moor near Cardinham and down on the Lizard.