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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: Becky68 on 06:45:10, 02/05/19

Title: Sleeping mat
Post by: Becky68 on 06:45:10, 02/05/19
Hi, I'm new to this forum and am planning a section of the Southern Upland Way and looking for tips for the most comfy, lightweight, durable and budget sleeping mat. A lot to ask I know! There are so many options out there! Any tips? Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: alan de enfield on 08:17:31, 02/05/19
Hi, I'm new to this forum and am planning a section of the Southern Upland Way and looking for tips for the most comfy, lightweight, durable and budget sleeping mat. A lot to ask I know! There are so many options out there! Any tips? Thanks  :)



I guess if you ask 100 people you will get 150 different answers - your criteria are , in reality, not achieveable as it is extremely rare to be able to combine "budget", "Lightweight", "Comfy" and "Durable" into a single product.


Are you a 'back-sleeper' or a 'side-sleeper' ?


Ignoring your 'list' it pretty much comes down to budget;


For under £10 you can get a foam pad (of varying thicknesses) - relatively heavy but durable.
For a little more you can get a self inflating foam pad,
Then you can move onto a 'lightweight' air-bed type pad - you can pay a few pennies for a product from China, or £50 for a European quality product.
If you want to pay £100+ you can get something like a Down-Air mattress, but the weight is heavier than just an air-pad.


Bulk also comes into the equation - do you have a big space in your bag (foam pad) or a small space (air-bed)


Are you looking for the pad to keep you off the rocky/lumpy ground and/or to help keep you warm (insulation from the cold ground) ?


My Down-Air mattress weighs 908 grams but is very warm and confortable.
My 'Air-Bed' inflatable weighs 462 grams but my hips and shoulders 'bottom-out' and touch the ground (I am a side-sleeper)
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:27:47, 02/05/19
Foam pads are actually pretty light, Alan. My 3/4 length cut down ancient Karrimat weighs 200g. And they are usually strapped to the outside of the rucksack.

Not the most comfortable though!
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:33:28, 02/05/19
Welcome to the forum Becky.

Firstly let me ask when are you planning to camp? If not in the winter, then a simple lightweight blow up mat without any foam insulation will do - Lidl did some a while back for the princely sum of £17.99, and I find them extremely comfortable. Weight 500g. Out of stock now, but similar are available online.

(https://image.ibb.co/hBkn7J/Crivet-camping-mat.jpg)
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: alan de enfield on 08:38:06, 02/05/19
Foam pads are actually pretty light, Alan. My 3/4 length cut down Karrimat weighs 200hg. And they are usually strapped to the outside of the rucksack.


Not the most comfortable though!



Agreed - but the thicker you go, and if you get a full length one the weight does increase. I am always reluctant to strap 'stuff' on the outside of my rucksack - I was always 'taught' it was 'bad-form' and a risk of catching on brambles, getting caught up going thru' gates / styles etc.
Anything on the outside of the bag needs a fairly rugged waterproof bag (to minimise potential damage) which all adds weight.


I also have a full length Foam & Air 'self inflating' pad and that weighs in at 990g


If we were all the same it would be easy, but we are not, and we all have our own preferences. There is no right or wrong answer, just alternatives.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: archaeoroutes on 08:47:35, 02/05/19
Personally, I love Thermarest 'self' inflating foam mats. They come in such a range that I have several depending on whether I am prioritising size and weight or luxury.
I have tried a range of air beds, from the home kind you inflate with a big pump to the high-end ones with down in them. I always wake with severe pain and can't walk the next day as they play hell with my sciatica. I've also heard complaints about their noisiness. However, they are very light and very small and you can get the lower-end ones very cheaply.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Stube on 08:52:24, 02/05/19
I would always recommend a self-inflating sleeping mat.

From about 350 grams for a 3/4 length ultralite to 800 for a full-length comfort mat. Price range £30 - £80. The smaller thinner ones pack down to only a little bigger than an air bed.

Their big advantage is that they provide some cushioning and insulation even when punctured - unlike an air bed.

Alpkit and Multimat are good makes to start looking at.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: fernman on 09:38:45, 02/05/19
I love my Multimat Superlite!
As for inflatable pads,  from a personal point of view I wouldn't entertain one because I've never slept very well on the big base-camp ones, which is why I now use a camp bed with a matress topper for that.
But my main reason for posting is to add to the comments about carrying closed-cell rolls on the outside of a rucksack: I once got a puncture in a Thermarest that was inside my pack, but is was at the very bottom and it was almost certainly pricked when I climbed over a barbed wire-topped fence.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: richardh1905 on 10:14:17, 02/05/19
If we were all the same it would be easy, but we are not, and we all have our own preferences. There is no right or wrong answer, just alternatives.



So true, Alan.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: richardh1905 on 10:16:52, 02/05/19
But my main reason for posting is to add to the comments about carrying closed-cell rolls on the outside of a rucksack:



You can't puncture a closed cell mat. My veteran is 35 years old - looks the worse for wear but still does the job just fine.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: gunwharfman on 11:07:07, 02/05/19
I've ended up with 3 mats, 2 self-inflating and one that has to be inflated, which is the one I like best. I started off my hiking career with a blue closed cell, hated it, couldn't get comfortable at all. I now cut it up when I need a new sit-on mat.

For me personally, I've learned from experience that after a long days hike I need to rest comfortably. I also sleep on my side which for me is one of the reasons why the blue closed cell was so useless, my ilaec crest bone was always so painful by the morning.

One of my self inflating mats, they are all Thermalites, is 'old,' about 6' x 2'.52 x 2" thick and I use it when we have visitors, its ideal and very comfortable. I'm always up early and prefer to sleep downstairs so that when I'm up and doing, the visitors can carry on sleeping and I don't have to disturb them.

My other Thermarest is a 4' x 2'.5" x 1" thick Prolite. I bought this one to save weight, in hindsite, daft! I wish I hadn't spent out my money on it because my feet overhang the end, (I use a piece of the blue mat to compensate)  I should have bought the 6' one. I have to be very precise at the inflation of this one, no air and its the same as sleeping on a blue closed cell, too much air and its like sleeping on a rock! If I get it just right its very comfortable.

The Prolight is ideal for my bivi, it would be even better if it was 6' long. I keep thinking of buying a new Prolite but I just never seem to make the final decision.

When I'm in my tent I prefer the luxury of my Thermarest Neo Air, but this one is not self-inflating. I don't use it when I use my bivi and want to stealth/wild camp, too noisy to blow up. But it is very comfortable and it rolls up to the size of a beer can, which is great when packing my rucksack and am on the move each day.

A long winded explanation (sorry) but the point I want to make is whatever you buy, make sure that your purchase keeps the cold from the ground under your matress where it belongs, if it gets though to your body you can get uncomfortably cold at night.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: fernman on 12:32:13, 02/05/19
You can't puncture a closed cell mat.

Prior to my earler-mentioned Thermarest (which lasted for several years after I repaired its puncture) I had a closed-cell mat until I was sitting on it during a lunch break; when I got up to do something the breeze flipped it up onto my stove, which melted a large, black-edged hole in it. Since then I've enjoyed the superior comfort of self-inflatings mats.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Ronin83 on 16:31:08, 02/05/19
Berghaus do some reasonably priced self inflaters and so do decathlon.
Pillows are important too, especially for side sleepers. One inflatable and one squishy compactable. Good combo and both light.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Owen on 16:34:14, 02/05/19
I've been using a Neo Air short for a while, I've come to the conclusion that's it's just to small. It's not so much it's short length but it's also tapered from 50cm at the shoulders to about 30 at the knees. I keep rolling of it. I've just ordered a full length one. 
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: alan de enfield on 16:57:44, 02/05/19
I've been using a Neo Air short for a while, I've come to the conclusion that's it's just to small. It's not so much it's short length but it's also tapered from 50cm at the shoulders to about 30 at the knees. I keep rolling of it. I've just ordered a full length one.



I often wonder if those buying a 'short' pad to save the odd few grams, are the same folk that cut their toothbrush handle off, squeeze 1/2 of their toothpaste out before they start, etc etc.


I've got to the stage in life where I might be walking / camping but comfort is important and sleeping "well" is at the top of the list.


I might be camping but I'm not living in a uncomfortable cave with no 'mod-cons'.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Owen on 17:22:15, 02/05/19

I often wonder if those buying a 'short' pad to save the odd few grams, are the same folk that cut their toothbrush handle off, squeeze 1/2 of their toothpaste out before they start, etc etc.


Don't cut your toothbrush in half, it'll be too short to use.


Get free sample toothpaste mini tubes from the dentist.


Before the Neo Air I used short a self- inflating thermarest for years. I side sleep and often pull my knees up into the fetal position so a short mat is fine but not a narrow one. 
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: fernman on 17:32:55, 02/05/19
I often wonder if those buying a 'short' pad to save the odd few grams, are the same folk that cut their toothbrush handle off, squeeze 1/2 of their toothpaste out before they start, etc etc.

Yes, they are....
v
v
v
....speaking from experience  :-[
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: archaeoroutes on 19:39:04, 02/05/19
3/4 length mats don't just save weight and bulk. They are useful on a slope because you can have your heels and head (bag of spare clothes pillow) in contact with the ground to stop sliding.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Becky68 on 04:42:08, 03/05/19
Wow! What a lot of replies! I'll try to answer some of the questions. I'm hiking in a couple of weeks' time so won't need a super-duper warm one, but comfort and lightweight are my top priorities I think. I've tried a Vango self inflating one in the past which only got to about an inch in thickness and I'm getting to the age when that's just not think enough! It is also too bulky and I ended up strapping it to my rucksack, which, I can see now is a cardinal crime!  :)  I want lightweight, comfy and small size so will check out some of the suggestions and welcome any specific models. I'm a side and back sleeper because I don't tend to sleep much in a tent but am hoping that will change after a long day's hike! Thanks for all the suggestions.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:28:58, 03/05/19

The Lidl mat that I mentioned is 6cm thick, and very comfortable for side and back sleeping. As I said earlier, similar lightweight blow up mats without insulation are available online (although I cannot find any with longitudinal tubes).


Do check the weight of some of the cheaper mats before buying though - they can be heavy!
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: richardh1905 on 08:39:06, 03/05/19

Avoid anything like THIS (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0787Y9JWQ/ref=dp_prsubs_3) if you want a good night's sleep!



Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: alan de enfield on 08:40:04, 03/05/19
I bought one of these, but found its not ideal for a 'side-sleeper' as my shoulder and hip still touch the ground, I had to put a 'pad' underneath it at the critical points to try and make it more comfortable.
I am 92kgs in weight - maybe a 'less-robust;' person would not have the same problem.

It actually rolls up smaller than they say - 10" x 3" is the maximum.

(https://i.postimg.cc/5jhf3xHK/A2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5jhf3xHK)


(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWVk1ZRS/A3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWVk1ZRS)


Here is a very similar one (mine is no longer available)
This one has a pillow as well (one thing less to carry)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultralight-Inflatable-Sleeping-Mat-Camping-Air-Pad-Roll-Bed-Mattress-Pillow/264260156488?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190212102350%26meid%3Db4e6ad2880d2466abcfdf0ee67cb7ee9%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D264034444483%26itm%3D264260156488&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultralight-Inflatable-Sleeping-Mat-Camping-Air-Pad-Roll-Bed-Mattress-Pillow/264260156488?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190212102350%26meid%3Db4e6ad2880d2466abcfdf0ee67cb7ee9%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D264034444483%26itm%3D264260156488&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985)
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Stube on 10:21:34, 03/05/19
One thing that's not been mentioned. A synthetic sleeping bag will provide more cushioning and insulation from the ground than a down one. Its extra weight can be offset against a lighter mat.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: fernman on 10:46:41, 03/05/19
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultralight-Inflatable-Sleeping-Mat-Camping-Air-Pad-Roll-Bed-Mattress-Pillow/264260156488?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190212102350%26meid%3Db4e6ad2880d2466abcfdf0ee67cb7ee9%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D264034444483%26itm%3D264260156488&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultralight-Inflatable-Sleeping-Mat-Camping-Air-Pad-Roll-Bed-Mattress-Pillow/264260156488?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190212102350%26meid%3Db4e6ad2880d2466abcfdf0ee67cb7ee9%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D264034444483%26itm%3D264260156488&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985)

Ah, but is such a mat, along with other inexpensive blow-up ones, going to insulate your body from the cold ground, which I believe is a major reason for using a ground mat, along with comfort of course?
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: alan de enfield on 12:51:46, 03/05/19

Ah, but is such a mat, along with other inexpensive blow-up ones, going to insulate your body from the cold ground, which I believe is a major reason for using a ground mat, along with comfort of course?



No - it will have an R-Factor less than 1, it will 'drain your body heat away', but for Summer time use its OK.


Its interesting to note that a sleeping bag only achieves it 'ratings' when fully 'insulated' from the ground.


Info from "Exped" :-





 Heat loss is dramatically reduced with down insulation inside the mat, as demonstrated by EMPA, the Swiss Federal Labaratories for Materials Testing and Research, and field tests by expeditions. The thick cushion of air also provides comfort and smooths out uneven ground. And as down compresses extremely well, Downmats packs smaller than other insulated mats.


Light and warm: The DownMat 7 has a R-Value of 5.9. At about the same weight a standard 2.5 cm self inflating mat only has a R-Value of 2.5. Further EMPA tests demonstrated that regular mats lose 3x more heat to cold ground than to the air. The conclusion: use a lighter weight sleeping bag with a DownMat to achieve consistent overall comfort, and still reduce weight and bulk!

https://www.gearx.com/blog/knowledge/hikingcamping/how-to-choose-a-sleeping-pad/ (https://www.gearx.com/blog/knowledge/hikingcamping/how-to-choose-a-sleeping-pad/)


One feature of a sleeping pad that’s easy to overlook is insulation. The air in an inflatable pad or the dense foam in a closed-cell sleeping pad warms with your body heat and insulates you from the cold ground. Some sleeping pads also feature a heat-reflective material in their construction, which directs body heat back toward you rather than transferring it to the ground. Temperature ratings on sleeping bags are made with the assumption you are using a sleeping pad, which underscores their importance.




What is R-Value?
R-Value is a sleeping pad’s ability to insulate its user from the ground. This insulation is measured on a scale from 0 to 6.  The higher the R-value, the warmer it will be


(https://www.gearx.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/r-val-scale.gif) (https://www.gearx.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/r-val-scale.gif)


Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: gunwharfman on 13:13:24, 03/05/19
All good advice except I could not go along with the idea of not worrying about cold coming up from the ground in the summer months. I would always buy with the view that one can be cold at any time of the year, the nights when you wouldn't have to worry I bet can be counted on one hand. If you get the purchase wrong you could end up buy two mattresses.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: alan de enfield on 15:00:05, 03/05/19
If you get the purchase wrong you could end up buy two mattresses.



Is that why I have a 'number' of rucksacks, sleeping bags, mattresses, tents, tarps, hammocks and assorted stoves and 'stuff' ?



I think (that for now) for me, I have finally got the combination of weight, comfort, warmth and convenience about right.


My choices would not suit some others, and vice versa.


Use what you feel comfortable with - but - you will need to experiment.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: fernman on 17:12:25, 03/05/19
What is R-Value?
R-Value is a sleeping pad’s ability to insulate its user from the ground. This insulation is measured on a scale from 0 to 6.  The higher the R-value, the warmer it will be


Armed with the above information that Alan supplied, I looked at the maker's site for my mat, which gives a Season Rating of 4 (I've always taken "season ratings" to be rather subjective) and a Tog Value of 3.9, but there is no R-Value.

Is there a way of comparing Tog Value wirh R-Value?

EDIT: I think I've found the answer to my question, I should have searched for it before asking. First I found a 2011 post on Backpackinglight asking about converting values, with a reply pointing them to Ultralightoutdoor gear where, it was said, both values are listed. They are indeed, I have found, although the R-Value is on the mat's description page while the Tog Value is on the specifications page.

Further searching found a 2010 press release from Multimat, headed "Don't be fooled by over-inflated R-Values" which makes interesting reading if you're fully awake and have half an hour to spare:
http://www.multimat.uk.com/articles/don-t-be-fooled-over-r-values (http://www.multimat.uk.com/articles/don-t-be-fooled-over-r-values)
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: gunwharfman on 18:35:09, 03/05/19
Me too Alan, I seem to now have two or three of most things, Two tents, one bivi, three rucksacks, three warm full-zip jackets, three mattresses, three pairs of walking trousers, numerous socks, all bought as I learned more and more about the walking and hiking game.

I'm confident I've reached a plateau now, my spending is far less now because I now know (or at least I think I know) what I'm doing.

I certainly hope that by reading our views and experience this will help some people to spend less (or the same if they want to) and so have more funds for travel costs, beer, wine and the other entertainments en route.

I keep advising people on how to have the things that you want and need in life, for the lowest cost, but I could be easily accused of not practising what I preach.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 19:04:09, 03/05/19
Personally, I love Thermarest 'self' inflating foam mats.

Got an example model? I looked at the NeoAir® All Season™ SV which is just air but compact and the DreamTime which was massive packed and weighed 3.5kg - I don't normally concern myself with weight but that's a lot for a mat.

I certainly hope that by reading our views and experience this will help some people to spend less (or the same if they want to) and so have more funds for travel costs, beer, wine and the other entertainments en route.

Alas if I ever go down this route I suspect I'll overspend...
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: taxino8 on 20:50:53, 03/05/19
I’ve got one of these and it suits me fine.
Bought mine for under £50 but they’ve gone up a bit since, or maybe because it’s the time of the year people are buying outdoor gear.



https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BLIGW2U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BLIGW2U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 20:57:54, 03/05/19
That looks pretty good taxino8 although I'd go for the insulated version so I could use it when it's cold too.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: taxino8 on 21:01:10, 03/05/19
That looks pretty good taxino8 although I'd go for the insulated version so I could use it when it's cold too.
I’ve got one of those too, I bought it for my wife at Xmas but it’s not been used yet and she doesn’t go often so I could borrow it if I felt the need.
I like the fact it has a tube running down each side, it definitely helps prevent me from sliding off and it’s not noisy like some other makes.
Quite popular in the USA where they originate from.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 21:11:12, 03/05/19
Good to know. I don't plan to go camping in the immediate future but I read all the camping threads and select what gear I'll buy if I do. Been many years since I went camping and I had rubbish gear last time. Next time will be different!
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: richardh1905 on 22:37:43, 03/05/19
Those Klymit mats look good, taxino8 - having a raised edge is a good feature. My Lidl mats have this and it does tend to stop me rolling off an otherwise narrow mat.
Title: Re: Sleeping mat
Post by: watershed on 08:32:06, 18/03/20
Hi Becky welcome to the forum from Shetland.
I have bought some stuff in the past from Ultralight out door gear. There are cheaper places, occasionally, if you shop around but they do free postage, even to the Northern isles and they often have a deal where  you can get another item cheaper along with your purchase eg water proof stuff sack.
they have an extensive range of sleeping mats and do their own reviews off them. I have phoned them in the past and they were most helpful. If you check the link attached you will see some very cheap air mats like the multi mat from £29.99 at 440 grams.
or one of the big names like Exped AirMat HL M Regular Sleeping Mat coming in at £99.99 304Grams £15 below RRP free postage. with a half price black diamond head torch deal. R Value 1.5 which is maybe as cold as you would want to risk. Although if your tent floor is super water proof, you can lay some clothes under your mat and up its R Value.
https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/sleeping-mats-c58/ultralight-airbeds-c138