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Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: citadel1 on 20:21:15, 28/07/19

Title: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: citadel1 on 20:21:15, 28/07/19
Went for a walk this afternoon along the severn river, the severn way,  at one point came across a new build , the path has been diverted to the main road , only to have it re join the river path after the property.. My friend checked the OS map on his mobile to show clearly the path should have carried on .  Can you, in effect "buy" a right of way for a clearly well used path ?   
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: archaeoroutes on 20:28:20, 28/07/19
Round us there are quite a few 'new' houses with the ROW going through them. By 'new' I mean in the last 50 years.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: gunwharfman on 20:30:57, 28/07/19
The same thing on the footpath between Horsham and East Grinstead, housing estate right on top!
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: ninthace on 20:34:38, 28/07/19
Went for a walk this afternoon along the severn river, the severn way,  at one point came across a new build , the path has been diverted to the main road , only to have it re join the river path after the property.. My friend checked the OS map on his mobile to show clearly the path should have carried on .  Can you, in effect "buy" a right of way for a clearly well used path ?
No. but you can divert it with the appropriate planning permissions.  The OS map takes aeons to catch up and then only if they are told and the definitive map is amended.  I have seen a development built across a PROW.  The path went through the garden of one house and the lounge of the neighbour.  The developer was made to build a path between the two houses and then build a stile into the field the path went through - he wasn't happy.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: citadel1 on 21:51:47, 28/07/19
Thanks for the replies, i will email the local authority about this, i mean live & let live etc but, this seems to be a bit of a cheek, the only section of the river path i have walked on where your diverted on to a busy main road. for a single, pretty much brand new house
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: ninthace on 21:58:53, 28/07/19
In Weardale there is a PROW that goes up the drive of a house, past their back door and out across their back lawn.  I bet they loved that when the solicitor told them.  In Mallerstang there is a path that goes straight across a front garden - I spoke to the householder who was fine with it.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: pleb on 21:59:38, 28/07/19
Wait till barewirewalker sees this, he will be livid! You are right, its a bit off. In fact assuming house is newer than right of way, shouldnt really happen.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: ninthace on 22:08:41, 28/07/19
Wait till barewirewalker sees this, he will be livid! You are right, its a bit off. In fact assuming house is newer than right of way, shouldnt really happen.
Not necessarily - depends what was agreed when planning permission was granted. 
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: BuzyG on 22:08:48, 28/07/19
Yes, we have a number of marked public footpaths running through our housing estate.  When we moved to Saltash 25 years go, It was all farm land and the house we live in now, was one of the very first in the estate.  Happily we still have feilds at the back of us.  Planning permission has already been  approved for a further 3000 houses, just the other side of the A 38.  When that estate goes up it will be over another existing rural footpath.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: ninthace on 22:16:49, 28/07/19
We had a development in Brough over a rural footpath.  It was rerouted as part of the planning process.


Equally, if you walk the Pennine Way through Cronkley Farm (NY 86259 28938) the OS map shows the path going through the farm.  When you get there you will find the path has been legally rerouted around the west side of the farm.  When I passed that way, the paperwork was on display and the diversion signed.  The maps are not always right and PROWs can be legally altered.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: archaeoroutes on 09:26:30, 29/07/19
There's a reasonably old house near us that has a ROW through its garden. In this case the house predates the ROW - a canal was made through their garden and then when it was filled in the towpath ROW remained. It spilts their back garden in half but I've never had any issues walking it.

Where I grew up and estate was built across a ROW. My friend had a house which stradled it. Every year a gentleman from the Ramblers would hop through everyone's gardens 'to keep the ROW in use'. When he came to my friend's he'd knock on the front door and walk through the house and out the back .
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: barewirewalker on 10:02:29, 29/07/19
Most footpath diversions and blockages tell a story, it is possible to deduce quite a bit about them from the map. Trouble is a story like this is fairly meaningless without more detail. There are members here, who are very knowledgeable and have given comment on both the legal side and more.

Location is always the first clue, but where is it? Beside the River Severn, its 240 miles long!


Streetmap.com is a very good and quick way to share a location.

1. Pick a postcode roughly in the area and type it in.
2. The area will open up in the largest A-Z scale map.
3. Click on the bars to zoom out, Explorer or Landranger scale comes up.
4. Find the location you wish to share.
5. Move the Arrow that will be pointing to the Postcode used.
6. Copy the internet address and paste it into a post using the hyperlink button.

Then we know where, which county, how it can affect the wider access network etc.

By the way Welcome to the forum, it is always interesting to know about these problems.

Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 13:18:14, 01/08/19
For those of you who can remember the Esther Rantzen series "That's Life" many years ago.
I vividly remember a discussion on a topic about very strange rights of way, and residents inability to have the route changed.

I forget where it was in England, but this right of way went through this couples garden, past their patio lounge window, and out through a swing gate some yards away, through their laurel bushes.

They tried everything to have the right of way diverted, but because of the very nature of the pathway, the council simply refused to listen to their views.

The right of way was of long standing, and its was either the way they went about it, or simply because of the pressure of the local rights of way group, nothing was done.

Members of the public were mostly puzzled and confused when they saw they were interrupting this couples tea or evening telly, but the stalwarts and regulars, simply walked across this couples lawn in heavy boots.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: Innominate Man on 13:28:23, 01/08/19
As with many Planning issues these days, there does seem to be a presumption in favour of developers rather than maintaining the green-belt/countryside.
The point of planning, which I always naively assumed to be one of protection, has swung around to ensure almost any development goes ahead un-hindered: It seems meeting building new home quotas/targets has priority over common sense/common law/common people.
Hang on, I've just had a topic drift and I'm now in the Small Rant thread !   ;D
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: barewirewalker on 17:53:15, 01/08/19
I wonder how many examples of a house being built across a right of way and the owners having to let ramblers walk from one door to the other, there really are.

Nearly every time the issue of rights of way are aired by landowners this example is trotted out, but how often does the mile of lost way that could link up ten miles of underused RoW and make it into a very useful way, get any mention at all. (I would hazard a guess that I have given more examples of the later on this forum in the last 10 years than the 50 years that particular excuse to demonize RoWs have shown)

Reading the Daily Mail on my bro in laws kitchen table this morning, I note that Prince Charles has come up with a ten point plan to save Britain's rural economy. There is one glaring omission, land owners opening up the countryside to help put hospitality dependent visitors into a village based hospitality suites, in other words a rights of way network that has overall continuity of way and avoids the road network.
But I suppose HRH Charles is a landowner.


It is after all the historic reason many of our villages started in the first place.


Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: jimbob on 19:03:16, 01/08/19

But I suppose HRH Charles is a landowner.

Only suppose? All of your "landowner" arguments are about his mother, since she owns all land in the UK and many other countries of which she is monarch. All non Royal Estate land is held in freehold granted from the crown. Freeholders can then lease all or portions of that land to other loyal subjects.

So, the landowner on request of the Scottish Parliament signed into law open access to all her land in Scotland with the provisos that that Parliament requested.
If the UK Parliament proposed a similar open access law in the rest of the UK then the landowner has already shown her willingness to so do. How much easier to campaign for that than to be chasing up he veracity of challenged historical documents and opening countless individual cases with county councils and the like.

Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: barewirewalker on 20:29:30, 01/08/19
Your response on a higher level of intellectual plane than my 'off the cuff quip',

Sadly all too true, both the Lost way Project, post CRoW act and the Stepping Foreward Iniative would have benefited from some of the logic wrapped up in your post.

My 'Quip' was more triggered by the picture of the CLA's Land and Business monthly being on HRH's coffee table reading, was the status symbol more influential than the historical and economic facts that should have put the Access Network into the equation.

There is no doubt that HRH has put some deep thought into his ten points, but the issue of access and it's potential benefits for the rural economy have not received the level of study that should have put it in his sightline.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: jimbob on 21:08:28, 01/08/19
Actually I totally agree with you on the many lost opportunities for rural revival based on open access.  Having walked the Camino Frances and seen the little bars, cafes, hostels and bnbs supported by he people walking and visiting that area then comparing that to say the Pennine Way and the lack of any facilities on  many  days when more than a few are walking.Many of our LDWS are lacking facilties over their complete length making it necessary to book well in advance and often missing out on sights to meet daily destination targets. I know so many who want to "do" LDWs but don't want to cary tents, stoves etc .
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: Lee in Doncaster on 08:16:06, 02/08/19
I've used several footpaths that go through people's gardens -it's not that unusual.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: fernman on 09:09:26, 02/08/19
I followed a footpath yesterday that went up the side of a property, part of an old farm that had been converted into individual residences.
From a stile in a lane the path went straight onto the side of a drive in the garden, then through a gate. Beyond this was a narrow fenced path between a continuation of the drive on one side and a paddock on the other side, before a second gate that opened onto a crop field.
There was an abundance of signs saying Keep dogs on leads, No cycles, Keep to the footpath and Close the gate.
It just happened that someone was about to depart in a RR Discovery, he left very, very slowly and waited a long time at the exit, leaving me with the impression that he was keeping an eye on me.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: Ridge on 11:05:27, 02/08/19
I'm always surprised when paths through peoples properties are not well signposted. If it was me I would want people to stay on the right route.
Earlier this week we walked down a lane and then, following a sign, down a drive. When we got to the house there was no indication of where to go so we wandered round the garden for a bit before finding a stile hidden behind some shrubs.
Title: Re: A footpath blocked by a new home
Post by: barewirewalker on 11:36:04, 02/08/19
It just happened that someone was about to depart in a RR Discovery, he left very, very slowly and waited a long time at the exit, leaving me with the impression that he was keeping an eye on me.
This suspicion that all strangers are 'ne'er do wells' is the historic basis of much of the problem, landowners are encouraged to think that keeping people out of the countryside improves their security. Yet the percentage of law abiding people in all walks of life shows the error in this thinking.
Technology now could link the visitor directly the occupier of that part of the countryside they are in. So the visitor could play a far greater part in rural crime watch. Many rural home owners are away from their properties more than they are in residence, yet does the criminal go about his business on foot?
The time when country people had eyes all over their demesne and not much happened that that was not commented on is long gone. The farm buildings that came in with the Norfolk rotation are converted dwellings.

The walker has replaced Old Tom, cleaning a ditch or Sid, Dick and Harry brushing the hedges of Pea Leasowe and the Thistly Furlogue as the eyes in the countryside. Yesterdays ploughmen had more chance of spotting a tramp on his way than today's contractor in a air conditioned cab with ipod, will spot wrong in a city based criminal carry goods out of a house rather than making a delivery.
Yet the landowners see countryside visitors as a reason for the insurance premiums going up, rather than a means for them to come down.